Ep. 11: Born this Way

0:06 Welcome to M4 Medicine, mystery, mayhem, and sometimes murder. I'm Andrea Marciano and RN with 35 years of experience across various fields. From direct patient care in hospitals to home health, geriatrics, and injury medicine, I face life, death, and everything in between. And I'm Crystal Miller and RN with 13 1/2 years of experience. My work spans home health, Hospice, emergency care, geriatrics, and occupational health. From the chaos of trauma based quiet moments with patients, I've seen stories that defy explanations. We've been friends for over 25 years and as nurses we've shared countless stories that have left us and our families speechless. Now we're bringing those stories and many more to you in medicine, mystery, mayhem, and sometimes murder.

0:53 Each week, we'll uncover cases that challenge the boundaries of medicine, sharing the human stories behind the science. From puzzling medical mysteries to shocking real life crimes, we'll bring you stories that'll leave you questioning everything you thought you knew while. We're both experiencing these nurses. We want to make it clear we're not here to give medical advice. This podcast is about storytelling, education and exploration, not diagnosing or treating medical conditions. This is medicine, mystery, mayhem and sometimes murder. Let's dive in. Hey Crystal, how are you doing? I am doing all right. I'm a little busy moving myself back to my own house. I can't worry. We never talked about it in this in this podcast, but I had to have a hip.

1:36 I know we've talked about hip replacements, but I when I had my hip replacement, I was not going to be able to use stairs. And my house has stairs and my sister's house does not have stairs. So we did a little Swapperoni so that I can recover with no stairs. And today is the big day that we're swapping back. So. That's awesome. I did the same thing with mine, but we have a another house on the property that's one level. So we just came up the driveway and it's all furnished and everything. So we came up the driveway and nice, I got in, I got in bed, I was about it. And I'm actually back in there because we're doing a little bit of remodeling. Oh yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, we're good.

2:18 Lately there's been a lot of activity in the skies that people are talking about. Everything from blue moons to what was it that came, What is the one that just came with the blue moon? There was something else associated. Now I can't even remember. Yeah. Anyway, there's been that and then there's been a lot of asteroids and. This year or last year? But that solar that. Solar eclipse, that was this year, yeah. And also around here, and I don't know if it's the same for you, but we see a ton of satellites at night when we're out in the hot tub especially and it's not cloudy, which in the Pacific Northwest is. Not. Very often, but we'll see satellites.

3:01 And at first I didn't know how to tell the difference that from a satellite versus a plane that was high or something like that. But now that I've seen more of them, I can tell the difference. And we are also in a flight path at intervals. We're in a flight path from the airport. I guess they switched it up from time to time, or maybe it's security. I'm not sure why, but sometimes the flight path comes across us all the time, other times intermittently. But so I've been thinking about the skies a lot lately and what's going on up there and what do you think? Have you? It wasn't Superman. Said Superman with the blue moon. For what it's worth, I just looked it up. Yeah, Holly and I actually were just talking about how something, I don't know if you know, everybody else talks about Mercury in retrograde, retrograde. And I think that that's often the only movement in the skies that people that don't follow astrology may are familiar with, you know, and it's when Mercury's in retrograde, it tends to cause some toss UPS, we'll call them. And Holly and I were talking about we have no idea what has changed in the skies.

4:12 She knew she'd been told something had changed and she couldn't remember what it was. But we've noticed that our toss up is kind of coming down and rearranging itself and settling down, so that's nice. And does that look like you moving back into your house? Is that what you mean by toss up or what? Do you mean me moving back into my house? Her job is going better. Morgan just offered to do some renovation to my house in Utah. Morgan, your brother. Nice. So yeah, so just. Things like that. Nice. Yeah. And I know that when we were talking about how things will start to open, so basically what I got out of it is we'll see the fruits of our labor, what we've been working towards, will become fulfilled. That's what I got out of it.

4:59 I don't know if that's what it meant, but that's what I got. That's cool. We're going to talk today about astrology, but I want to just ask you before we get into it, let's talk a little bit. This isn't going to be our topic in general, but just for fun, I want to talk a little bit about our Zodiac signs and what I mean, what do they mean to us, right? Like what's your Zodiac sign? Do you happen to know your three, your sun, moon and rising? I never can remember. I do have a whole big like 25 page report that I got one time, but I can never remember. But I am Scorpio, but I'm on the cusp of Libra, the day Libra ends, I believe on the 23rd of October. My birthday is on the 24th. And so of course, I like to take the best features from both because clearly it's only the best features I've gotten from either of those signs. And that naturally none of the negative features apply. And you can ask anybody who spends any time with me that that's absolutely true.

5:54 And then I'm not stubborn and I'm not obnoxious and I'm not. Yeah. Anyway, OK, don't ask anyone who knows me. Let's go with my story. So I don't know much about it. I do know that the main thing about Scorpio is that we sort of stick to stuff and tell. Either we fight through it or it falls into place. And sometimes it's more the fighting than the falling. But. That's. That's what I know. Whether any of that's accurate or that's just what I've interpreted, that's I don't know. The question I asked, but I did have an oh, I think party. No, no, you I'm I'm not answering the question. You did answer the question. Oh, OK. Like I thought that was the question. No, no, no, you reminded me when I was pregnant with my last child, it was my seventh child and I was so done with being pregnant and so I was so tired of being pregnant And I, I had a friend do a Reiki treatment, but kind of a reading also. It was late August, mid August, I guess it was really mid August.

6:49 And she said this baby is not coming out until she's a Virgo. Oh, which babe? Which was like a week after her due date and I was like Oh my God, why especially? The last one, that one was supposed to have crawled out on their own, you know. Right. And sure enough, Dave, the day that the Zodiac turned over to Virgo, out she came. And believe me, she is a Virgo. I get that. I get that. Joshua's 100% of Taurus. Yeah. Yeah, so. What's January? Is Juliana your sign as well? January. 17 yeah.

7:31 I mean, obviously I can't tell you her her moon or rising because I haven't done a birth chart, but yeah, so I'm a Capricorn. And what's fun is I'm actually at Capricorn, Capricorn, Aquarius. So I'm super Capricorn. I'm the Capricorniest Capricorn. Almost. You're definitely the corniest. I'm sure there are probably people that are Capricorn, Capricorn, Capricorn. But anyways, I think it's really fun to be Capricorn in two houses. So take for example, Sienna is also a Capricorn. Wait, what is Jules's birthday? 19th, the 17th, 17th. OK, yeah, she's. Anyway, so you can see that Sienna and I are not the same person. We don't have the same personality. We have a lot of similarities in our personalities.

8:12 But it's suppose it's that moon and rising sign that that really kind of differentiate people that are in the same sign. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I just think it's fun. I, I, I followed astrology far as the Zodiac is concerned for a while now and I just, I enjoy it. I don't read my horoscope or anything. I just like it for the for understanding human beings, for the archetype of it all. I guess I have, like I said, a giant file of it. I have looked at it but it was very complicated and I didn't didn't really keep worrying about it. Yeah, I had a birth chart done. I've had them. I've had one actually hand drawn and then I had one done by a website.

8:54 I did not compare them. I never bothered to compare them and I lost my hand drawn one in one of my moves. I lost it, so Boo. Anyway, I don't think we could talk for an hour about the Zodiac and astrological signs, but that's OK because that's not actually our topic today. Our topic is more about astrology and prime solving. So for those who don't know, astrology is it's a system of divination that uses the stars. Basically the not even just the stars, the stars, the planets, the is it the universe? Or is it like? The solar system Galaxy.

9:34 I don't know. I'm sure. Sorry y'all. All that good stuff. All that stuff to determine, to determine things in life like we like we were just talking about where the sun and the moon are at your time of birth impacts your birth. As you know, the moon controls the tide, right? So anybody who thinks planets don't can't have an impact on our Earth or our spirit, our energy, our universe, whatever, we have literal physical proof that it can, right? It's wild things like that, like the moon controlling the tides. I don't think that most people when they think about when they think about astrology, think about crime solving.

10:16 So I thought it would be fun to to talk about some some instances where astrology intersected with criminal investigations. I. Think that's awesome. And actually I was just listening to a podcast where they were talking about how the astrology of this one individual really gave them some ideas on how to profile. I mean, with, and it was actually kind of a reverse relationship relationship where they were profiling and as they profiled, they started getting ideas of when he would have been born and kind of given the age and based on the personality that showed up in the crimes. And I thought that was really interesting. And it makes sense. I mean, as talked about in other episodes where places like ERS and police calls and things like that, EMS calls are much busier during full moons.

11:05 And there will be people that argue that, but there's not a single person I know that's an EMS professor that does not believe that 100%. And some people say, well, you believe it, so it's true. You can make it proof. Well, the numbers show that more. Babies. Empirical evidence. Yeah, there's more babies. Born during big storms and there's got to be astrological events related to those I would imagine. So I'm really interested to see what you come up with. First person I want to talk about is a renowned astrologer and a cultist, John Dee and John Dee served as a consultant to Queen Elizabeth the 1st and that is not the Queen Elizabeth that just died. It made Charles king much she's she's from the Renaissance.

11:46 He was one of her. He was her consultant. I already said that. And while much of his work was just advising on matters of state and using astrology, by the way, to advise on matters of state to use the astrology and a lot of his advising to the I feel like my my words are coming out weird. Do I sound weird? You sound regular. OK. OK, good. I don't want to say normal, I think regulars more descriptive, but no thanks, I'm fine. So he you may be going to explain this, but when you say he uses astrology, what does that mean? Is that something that's going to come up or is that should I just know what that means? Well, I'm going to give you some examples. OK.

12:27 Yeah. So he would. So there are accounts, though, of his involvement in more secretive, mystical practices that included criminal investigations he was believed to use. Yeah. He was believed to use astrology and scrying. And in his case, it was gazing into a crystal ball or a mirror. And for people who don't know what scrying is, I realized you might not all be witches. Witches, yeah, we're fans of the show with the far sisters. I can. I think of what it's all. Oh yeah, right, I know what you're talking. About I'm such a fan. Yeah, my favorite show. What? Supernatural or something I guess. Supernatural is the men anyway.

13:07 Crying is a way is using an instrument that can be many things. Could be a pendulum. It can be a crystal on a string. It can be a rock on a string. Isn't it runes as well? It could be runes it yeah, it's it. There's a lot of ways to scry, but in his case he used a crystal ball or a mirror to uncover secrets and solve mysteries for Queen, making him a precursor to the concept of a psychic detective. Really. I never knew that. So like I said, he was, he was a, he was a, he was a, he was an English mathematician, astronomer, astrologer, and a cultist. He's best known for his mystical practices and his attempts to to communicate with angels.

13:51 But again, there are aspects of his life that touch on secrecy and criminal criminal investigations. So. So when he was, when you say criminal investigations, it's like who came in and stole the butter from the kitchen or what kind of things do you look into? Do you know he? Mostly did criminal investigation centered around his belief he could communicate with angels, which he did again with the use of scrying mirror. But as far as the astrology goes, he often would do things like, because he would use it for, he would use it, he'd use astronomy to assist with finding spies and to and to counter foreign threats. But it doesn't actually say how he did that. What it does say more specifically, is he would use astrology in the context on the in the context of political intrigue and criminal investigations by determining auspicious times for actions or to interpret omens related to a political or criminal event.

14:49 Was he right? There's no concrete evidence that he was right. It's all just was it called? What are passed down stories called tables? Tables. Yeah. I was thinking more like myths. Not myths, though. But like, I mean, it's anecdotal. That's not what I'm looking for but but. Yeah, I mean, he said that he did it and people didn't basically couldn't prove or disprove that he did so, OK. Yeah, exactly. Maybe it worked, maybe it didn't, but he is known that you know, it's accepted that he did use astrology, astronomy to both advise the Queen as her personal advisor and to help find spies and find auspicious times and determine inauspicious it. Almost sounds like he's one of the first profilers. Yeah, that's, I mean, yeah, it really does. It sounds like.

15:39 And maybe, you know, who knows? You think about the the show site, right? The guy is just really observant, right? He's not sure necessarily profiling. I mean, you could kind of say, OK, but that that's neither here nor there. It sounds like it might have been more of that of being very observant. It couldn't be that he was communicating with angels. I mean, we all believe, I mean, you and I, I guess we both believe that we could communicate with angels or really spirits, right. And yeah, it would, it would have been awesome. I didn't see this. He actually, he actually believed he knew the language of the angels, which is called Enochian, I think. And he actually kept a journal.

16:25 He carried a journal where he wrote down what he'd uncovered, talking to the angels in their own language and the secrets of the universe that believed he had found. Yeah, it was. He was very secret about it. And so not a lot of people were aware of that practice. But interesting I mean. Yeah, well, so can you tell me more about what it was? So did he. The Queen had her Natal chart, whatever depth they went into for that. So was he be able to say, OK, your Natal chart says that on May 4th at 6:00 PM, it's a really great time to do XY and Z versus it's not a great time to do XY and ZI? Don't know if he used her Natal chart. I think he could have that could have been it. It could have been a piece of it, But I think he, well, that's tricky because it may have just been, I think that he may have also done, you wouldn't call it a Natal chart in a sense, but I think he he would do charts of well, actually I have another, I have another person that I have more information on that I can give you more details on.

17:26 So let's actually wait for him if you don't mind, because because John D was so in secret and so, you know, lots and lots of rumors and hush hush, but nothing really concrete as far as if what he did worked, you know, and nothing really about how he did it other than he he was just astronomy, astrology and crying so. Yeah, that's interesting. And I just wonder what people thought of it back in the day. And, and maybe that's very controversial. Well, maybe that's why he used the secrecy, because he maybe he was afraid of being lynched or whatever. Tard and Feather, whatever people used to do at that time frame. Sure, 'cause every every civilization had concerns about things they didn't understand and still to this day. Still, Yeah, of course.

18:16 So the next person that we're going to talk about was born in the 1600s. So I'm remembering how centuries go. That's the 17th century. Right, that's the way I get it too. And he had a very interesting way of using it. He didn't do horoscopes for famous figures. One of his most famous was for the king of England, Edward the 6th. And he predicted that Edward the 6th would have a short life. And it was later confirmed when the king died at the age 50. So he made several predictions based on astrology that were documented in his writings. For example, he predicted the death of Pope Clement the 7th, which occurred in 1534, shortly after Cardano had foretold it.

18:59 He. Wrote a book, book of my life. It's actually an Italian book because he's Italian, De Vita propia libert, I think, sorry if I'm switching that. And that's how that actually gives the history of how astrological influences affected his life and his decisions. And he often attributed significant events in his life to the planets of the stars, the movement of the planets of the stars, right? He wrote extensively on astrology, wrote a lot about the tech, the technical aspects, including the the calculation of the planetary positions and the interpretation of astrological charts. Do you know when astrology really became an understood or a known topic at all? You know, I didn't, I can, I can look it up. I didn't look that up just because I didn't want to. I'll be honest, I didn't want to take that topic away from somebody else that's an expert.

19:46 You know what I mean? Right, right. But let me just I don't look it up while you keep going. OK, the thing that that makes oh, did I say his name ever? I don't. Think. His name is. I'm a Cardano, and again, I might be pronouncing that wrong. I do not speak. I think you probably are, but that sounds close. Someone named Marziano, that sounds a little bit not. I don't see it, but I do appreciate the attempt. I just as a note, wanted to mention that astrology originated in a message. I can't see this around the third Millennium BCE. What?

20:28 We didn't say was Mesopotamia. That's right. I did not say that. The earliest evidence for astrology among western Eurasian people dates from the third millennial BCE. That's interesting. And it was introduced to the Greeks early in the 4th century through studies of Plato, Aristotle, and others. Astrology came to be highly regarded as science and then later spread around the world. So third millennial BCE. Interesting. That's been a while. Cause astronomy became science or astrology became science. Astrology. Yeah, Yeah. Well, and the thing to me about all of this, I can look up astronomy. Astronomy too. We, we have spoken this language for a very long time, although it doesn't feel like it today. One of the things that when I look up in the sky, I just see lights and Max will tell me this is that constellation and this is that constellation.

21:23 But now it's over here. I'm like, dude, I can't even remember where. It's when the first time you showed me. Now when it moves, how am I supposed to know? I'm one of those, yeah, I'm one of those people that can find the North Star, the Big Dipper and a Little Dipper. Exactly. I know me too. And I don't care how many times people have told me what's what and why is you care. I just cannot. And it's not that I don't think the skies are beautiful and it's not that I don't think it relates to me and I'm not. I mean, I get it, but I just don't. I can't see it like I can some other things, which is funny because a lot of what I feel and believe in relates, I think, and it's just funny that I see, oh, that's pretty. And and that's pretty much as far as I go with that. So anyway, pardon me, carry on.

22:06 No worries, I'm just going to call him Cardano. Jeez Louise. Cardano used charts almost exclusively to predict things. He one well known instance he predicted the death of his own son who was implicated in a poisoning case, and his calculate his astrological calculations led him to predict his son's execution. God, we really have spoken this language our whole lives. His son's execution date which came true. And so it cemented for for Cardano, it cemented his belief in his own power and the power of astrology to uncover hidden truths, even even truths that he desperately wish were true.

22:47 Right. Nobody. Yeah, I was going to say I don't want to. I don't want that one. Yeah, right. Oh, by the way, you have 12 minutes to live Go. Yeah, right. Right, another reference that this isn't. Well, it is a person. It's a person we don't know. I'm sure that most of our listeners, if not all, are very familiar with the infamous serial killer the Zodi called the Zodiac Killer, right? I do, yes. Zodiac Killer was active in the late 60s and early 70s, and while astrology didn't solve the case, it played a prominent role in the killer's taunting of the police and the public right. His letters. He wrote letters to the police, and those letters included cryptic references to astrological signs and symbols that sounded stupid. No, it didn't.

23:27 And also, I know that I've read several things and heard several things about this podcast and such about the Zodiac Killer. And that's what made them finally be able to put it together is they were able to then say, OK, well the next Zodiac sign is this. And they were able to locate them because they put some things together that the sign meant this and the location would be here because he was building, If I remember correctly, he was building the series of trails involving the Zodiac signs. He was. Yeah, he was using the Zodiac signs and he was putting cryptic references into those taunting letters, references to the Zodiac, sorry, to the Zodiac sign, the symbols. And he gave himself his pseudonym, the Zodiac Killer, which is of course drawn from astrology. Astrology.

24:15 His letters are so cryptic that they still a lot of them have been decoded, but none of them that have been decoded so far have led to identifying the Zodiac Killer. For what it's worth, sometimes another another way that astrologers or people who dabble in astrology, I guess sometimes they might approach a crime by casting a horoscope chart based on the time and location of the crime itself. It's a technique that's similar to creating a birth chart, except it's you know about where the crime occurred instead of where somebody was born. And then what does that do? Well, it's called horror horary HORARY horary astrology.

24:56 And that's where an astrologer answers a question by kissing a chart the exact moment the question is asked. And this has been used to answer pressing questions like where is the missing person or who is the thief? There was a famous English astrologer named William Lilly and he he had a few instances where he was involved in, I'm going to do this air quotes mystical investigations because some people that I'm going to give you an example. So he had some successes and he had he had a lot of successes, but I'll explain it. I'm so sorry. OK, that works for me. So one of the most one of the most intriguing cases about Lily, Lily's involvement in a form of a mystical investigation relates to the Great Fire of London in 1666. Lily was accused of having predicted accused. That's funny.

25:53 Yeah. Lily was accused of having predicted the fire in a woodcut included in his 1651 Almanac. The image depicted London flames, which led some to to suspect that he had foreknowledge of the disaster or he had a hand in it. Yeah, that makes sense. I would I would not be surprised by people thinking that. Yeah, so he that accusation brought him before a committee of Parliament to explain himself. Lily defended himself by explaining that his prediction was purely astrological, based on the planetary positions of the time, and not derived from any any criminal knowledge or action. Despite the severity of the accusations, no evidence of criminal intent was ever found, and Lily was not charged with any crime.

26:36 That's good. So yeah. Exactly is also reputed to have solved theft cases using horror astrology. He would be asked to cast a chart at the moment of theft was discovered and his interpretations often pointed to the direction or description of the thief, sometimes with startling accuracy. There was actually a person that was a noble person probably because they had servants that something was stolen and I can't remember if it told me what the something was or not. So something was stolen and his friend came to him and said you know that I had this thing stolen, you know, can you tell me who stole it? Casting a chart or creating a chart for the moment that his friend asked him, he came to the conclusion that it was a servant and in searching servants quarters. So they did find it in service quarters. So that's, you know, that's considered by many a successful use of astrology in solving a crime 'cause, you know, kind of putting that London thing in the, the, in the Almanac. That's not, that's, that's a prediction. That's not necessarily solving a crime. It'd be really cool if he had put like London on fire and then a really distinct person, like, you know, with a curly mustache and a wart on his head and that's do it right. Like that'd be cool.

27:59 But I think that I really think that it's just coincidence or I don't, I don't think that. I think it could just be coincidence. My apologies. I don't, I don't, I don't. I'm not denying that it's real. I sometimes don't watch my language right like another. Another technique, sorry, involves analyzing the birth charts of suspects or victims. Astrologers might look at specific planetary transits, meeting movements of planets at the time of the crime that could indicate motives or potential behaviors. For example, an astrologer might examine whether Mars, the planet associated with aggression and violence, was particularly prominent in the suspect's chart at the time of the crime, suggesting a potential leak.

28:42 So this goes back to what you were saying, that they do actually take the birth chart. And well, I don't even know That's, I don't know. I'm not an astrologist. I'm not an astrologer. I'm whatever. I'm not an astrologer. I mean, I'm also not an astrologer. And we don't even play any on TVI always think that's funny. Well, So what this sounds like. Somehow they're using the birth chart, but they're using somehow they're using the birth chart as the chart at the time of the crime. It sounds like yeah. I almost wonder if they take the date and time of the crime and then take it backwards and see who it who it brings up.

29:24 And what makes me wonder about whether they have more of a certain moon or rising or however it's called that does lead towards aggression versus passivity or something. And I also wonder when they have the victim and they know the victim, does it say in their chart that on August 12th at 4:00 PM they're going to have XY and Z happen? I that's a great question. I don't know. Odyssey is my daughter and she had a theory. What were you saying about how they use their birth tricks? Can they use the horoscope on the day of the murder? It's kind of just because you know, how people use their horoscope to kind of predict how they're going to feel that day, how their day's going to go. So it can kind of give some insight on to what was happening astrologically the day that they committed their crime. Oh, so basically what she's saying is that if I know that John Smith committed the crime and I look at his horoscope, it will then say that he was going to commit that crime. That's what it sounds like, yeah. Yeah, that's yeah.

30:23 So it sounds like so. And I'm sure you know, when you think about horoscope that is in the paper or that is in the magazine or that, you know an app or whatever, those are typically not. They're for entertainment purposes. They're for entertainment purposes, yes. So there's probably not a lot of actual astrology, math and mapping and you know, the, the deep dive into it. And I, I suspect that when we're talking about these, these older folks, older meaning other centers, other, other times, other eras, I suspect that they, they would do all of that deeper work because, you know, they're trying to solve a crime. They're trying to prove something. That would be my guess.

31:09 And to everybody that's listening to us, if you think we're morons, sorry. We try not. We try not to be, but we're definitely not experts on this. There have been some contemporary applications of astrology in crime solving. While astrology isn't officially recognized in law enforcement, some private investigators and amateur excluse will still consult astrologers for guidance. 1 notable recent antidote involves Carolyn Meese, a medical intuitive and Mystic who has occasionally used astrological insight in her consultations. While not directly involved in criminal investigations, Meets has spoken about how astrology can provide psychological insights that might be useful in understanding the motives behind criminal behavior. So she doesn't claim to crimes to solve crimes. Her work illustrates how astrological perspectives may still play a role in understanding complex human behaviors.

32:01 And that's interesting because that actually goes kind of back to what Odyssey was saying about using their horoscope and even probably their birth charts. So I think your birth chart does tell to say a lot about your inclinations. Probably obviously there's, there's impacts that happen in life, you know, like head injuries and stuff like that. But I, I do think that you probably can tell a lot about a person by reading their birth chart and by knowing what it says. You know, the birth chart is very, very technical. I don't know what all of it means. You know, I'd have to have it explained to me by an astrologer. But I think that that's probably relevant. And then again, you can look for potentially you can look for what, where the planets were, right, that sort of thing to determine their state of mind maybe, right.

32:50 Like why did this person do this votive. That's the word I'm looking for. Motive. Yeah. Well, So what I wonder is if that's the case, does that mean that this person has to walk that path or how did they shift it? I mean, does if a person has those propensities, can they work themselves out of it somehow? Well. I think, I think yes. And I think that's part of the value of getting a birth chart and having it explained to you. It's you just get a birth chart and nobody tells you what it is. That's the I mean, I don't think that's helpful. No, that's what I have. Yeah. And so I think, I think getting your birth chart, having it explained to you and seeing what inclinations you have or propensities you have and seeing what I don't want to say path because that feels too rigid, which is why I like to say inclinations, but that just to see, to understand more about yourself.

33:45 I think you can then if there are things that are distasteful to you, you can then choose to work on them and reverse them or, you know, redirect them, that sort of thing. I I believe that I can't, can't prove it. And I don't even know if an astrologer would agree with me. Yeah. But that's kind of what I think about it. Right, that makes sense. And again, I mean, I want to make it very clear, I'm not an expert in astrology. I'm not intending to explain astrology. It's like there's a reason that this topic is astrology and crime and not what is astrology, right? So there's also a story of a woman named Nancy Bradley. She's a modern day psychic and astrologer who claims to have assisted in finding missing persons by using astrology and other psychic abilities.

34:36 In one case, she used the birth chart of a missing person to predict their location, which she claimed led to their discovery. There isn't any hard proof of this, it's just a claim that she's made. So while sorry. So obviously a lot of these stories are going to be met with skepticism, especially when it's just a claim that, you know, you can't show any evidence for. But then you also keep the conversation about astrology potential alive, and that's a good thing. Yeah. Let's talk a little bit about skepticism because this topic would not be complete without addressing the significant skepticism surrounding astrology, particularly in the context of crime solving. The lack of empirical evidence. Empirical evidence, that's what I was looking for the other while ago.

35:21 The lack of empirical evidence supporting astrology's effectiveness in investigations leads many to dismiss it as pseudoscience. Critics often point to confirmation bias, which is where people tend to remember the times appears to work and forget the many times it doesn't. Right. And I mean confirmation bias on a whole is only remembering the things that prove your point. Yes, exactly. On the other hand, present arguments from astrologers maintain that astrology, while not a science, can still offer valuable insights. They might argue that astrology's real power lies in its ability to prompt new lines of questioning or uncover psychological patterns that might otherwise be overlooked. So is this, does this mean that's a sort of a targeted questioning potential or something? I think, I think yes, I think that that's what what I got from that.

36:16 Let's say you're, you have a suspect, you've interrogated them and you're not getting anywhere. I think that maybe having a chart read or an astrological psychological evaluation done or whatever you want to call it, but potentially provide an interrogator with other things to ask or other ways to ask it. I I I believe so, yeah. I mean, it's like looking at with the astrological signs, it talks about what our personalities are and how to approach us. You know, some people will do better with a straightforward direct approach where other people will need a little bit of soft toe around soft toe, soft to soft something around their questioning.

36:59 And if I'm using the wrong approach, then it could delay answers. And if I can look into the correct approach or what maybe the correct approach, then I can see that people will go a little a little better. I know there's times where it with one of my kids that if I push too hard, they would absolutely positively say no way. I won't talk about it or don't do anything. And then if I was less direct and softer than I got the answers I was looking for. Right, definitely. You know, sometimes you have to trick people into answering questions or that's true. And so that might just be another thing that I don't know.

37:40 I just. I believe it could. Yeah, that makes sense. So I would like to put out to our listeners, you know, do you believe that astrology could play a legitimate role in solving crimes? Send us an e-mail, let us know what you think. Do you have anything else you want to say about this? Well, no, I just find it really interesting that there are so many different ways to look at personalities and how they affect things. And well, I think that we have a great ability to change our trajectory. I think there are some things that we all get to work on. I mean, there's going to be as a Scorpio, there's a high level of stubbornness and independence and. And malice is also associated with Scorpio.

38:22 I prefer not to listen to that and confirmation bias. Exactly. And it's true. And those are things that maybe I know about myself that I get to work on. Also, one of the things about being a Scorpio is that I tend to have great observation skills and I'll notice some of the smallest details. And that actually has been a challenge in my life because there's times where I've noticed details and people are like, why are you even thinking about that? What's your deal? And it's like, well, I can't help it. It's just, it is what it is. I was on AI was running with an ambulance crew once time and I was on a call and I saw something that actually helped the situation with the person who was in the ambulance. I had seen it was a simple thing. I'd seen the Snickers bar beside the side of the bed.

39:03 They were having issues, but at first we weren't sure what they were. And I asked, I saw that and I said, wait, are you diabetic? Because they hadn't said anything when we asked what their history is. How's your health web? Oh, you're fine. Everything's fine. No, it's not. And so when I had seen that, it caused me to ask about their the candy. Who's what candy is that? Who's was that yours? Have you just eaten it? Have you been drinking? Because those two things change blood sugars immensely. And the other and the other people on the call hadn't noticed the candy. It didn't ask about it. They just assumed that the person saying everything was fine with their health was what was fine with their health. And now every single call that I'm aware of with the ambulance, they checked blood sugar.

39:45 They didn't used to. This was back in the dark ages and we relied more on personal reporting than observation and clinical testing. And so it made a big difference. You mean did it save your lives? I don't know, but it got us to the answer faster because I noticed a detail that I, I, that other people just simply hadn't seen. And like I said, there's been times that people have been critical of me for noticing details when I brought it up and saying hi. I wonder why that is. They're like, it doesn't matter. Well, does to me. And and when we know that we have propensities or certain sort of inclinations, as you say, we could know what we want to address and how to. To deal with it versus just walking along without considering any other possibilities or ways things might affect us.

40:28 If we have our say, we have our Natal chart. And I mean, I'm asking you because you're the one I'm talking to. I don't know if you know the answer to this, but if I have my Natal chart and I know that I have certain type of propensity, are there times in the the year or moon cycles or anything that I'm affected more? I noticed that mine said I'm born on the new moon. Yeah, that's where all of that other, I mean you've got a ton of houses and that is actually, I think I'm not an expert, but that actually is what would give you that kind of insight. And and I think it's not like April 4th, 1994 is going to impact impact you. I think it's like when the stars are stars in the planets are aligned in this way, that's how it's going to affect you. And then you could find probably through science through through actually I'm saying astronomy on purpose this time. You could find through astronomy, which I'm saying on purpose this time, the day that that alignment will come to. Be or maybe I just know on 1/4 moon, that's the time where I get to rest and rejuvenate instead of trying to push a project through or something like that, that I'll just run into problems and or even I think it even can apply to. I tend to stay up later and I'm productive, really productive. A lot of times between 3:00 and 6:00 PM, more than my times are usually like 9:00 to 11:00 and then 3:00 to 6:00 PM. And in the meantime, it's not like I said around staring at the wall usually.

41:57 But I do notice those are times of productivity for me. And I really wonder if my Natal chart chart would have anything about that kind of thing in it. But it's been so long since I've read it, I don't. I don't know. I don't know either. Interesting. OK. That's what I had as a question for that. And I think that what I'm going to do is I'm going to look at all the people I know, figure out their signs and decide if I still want to spend time with them. Because it could be that on the Thursday the 12th of October, they're going to kill me. And that could be bad. That could be bad. Yeah, I agree. That's. Bad. I mean I could be our ghost Co host. Thank you. Thank you very much. All right, if you've made it this far, clearly you like a little mayhem with your medicine. Or you just enjoy hearing us ramble about weird mysteries. Either way, we'd love you for it. So hit that follow or subscribe button wherever you're listening.

42:50 And toss us a rating or review while you're at it. Helps other curious weirdos find the show. And we know there are a lot of you out there. Oh so many. Come join the chaos. Thanks for listening to Medicine, Mystery, mayhem, and sometimes Murder. Do you have an idea for an episode of this podcast? Just want to say hi? You can get in touch with us at our M4 pod. That's OURM the #4pod@gmail.com. We read every e-mail, and sometimes we even respond just like real professionals. Because we are. Old friends with new twists and lots of body bags.