Ep. 27: Mama, Just Killed A Man

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Welcome to M4 Medicine, mystery,
mayhem, and sometimes murder.

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I'm Andrea Marciano and RN with
35 years of experience across

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various fields.
From direct patient care in

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hospitals to home health,
geriatrics, and injury medicine,

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I face life, death, and
everything in between.

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And I'm Crystal Miller and RN
with 13 1/2 years of experience.

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My work spans home health,
Hospice, emergency care,

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geriatrics, and occupational
health.

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From the chaos of trauma based
quiet moments with patients,

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I've seen stories that defy
explanations.

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We've been friends for over 25
years and as nurses we've shared

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countless stories that have left
us and our families speechless.

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Now we're bringing those stories
and many more to you in

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medicine, mystery, mayhem, and
sometimes murder.

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Each week, we'll uncover cases
that challenge the boundaries of

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medicine, sharing the human
stories behind the science.

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From puzzling medical mysteries
to shocking real life crimes,

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we'll bring you stories that'll
leave you questioning everything

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you thought you knew while.
We're both experiencing these

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nurses.
We want to make it clear we're

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not here to give medical advice.
This podcast is about

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storytelling, education and
exploration, not diagnosing or

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treating medical conditions.
This is medicine, mystery,

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mayhem and sometimes murder.
Let's dive in.

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Hey Crystal, how you doing?
I'm doing well.

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How are you?
I am awesome, thank you very

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much.
Enjoying the variable seasons

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that we get in the Pacific
Northwest.

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Awkward not.
I mostly have my voice back.

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You'll probably know for those
of you who may not have listened

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to previous episodes.
I had some laryngitis for a

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couple episodes.
Seems to be pretty much

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resolved.
It does.

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You sound pretty normal.
You don't sound like Kurt the

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Frog anymore.
Actually, I guess you can't

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sound like Kermit.
Kermit the Frog's older brother

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that has had a deeper voice.
Don't know who that is.

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Yeah, that's me.
Anyway, So what do you have for

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us today, Crystal?
Today's one of the days we're

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going to do This is a sometimes
murder day, and we're going to

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be diving into one of the most
chilling true crime stories of

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the late 20th century.
It's a story of privilege,

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obsession and betrayal, and a
socialite's descent into

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delusion and a family's
unraveling.

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Have you ever heard of the
Bradshaw murder?

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I don't believe I have.
It's happened in Salt Lake City.

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It's I could only find one other
podcast episode on it and it

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was, I'll just say, hard to
listen to.

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So I hope that I do a better job
of covering this and it's more

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interesting to listen to when I
do it.

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No shade to that other podcast.
I'm you know, people have have

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their preferences and I'm sure
that that that podcast has

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devoted listeners.
It just wasn't for me.

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So but I was surprised I can
only find one, one podcast and

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it was even the podcast was just
a murder podcast that this was

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one of the stories they told.
It's just interesting to me

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because.
Because usually these big

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murders are sort of beaten to
death by everyone.

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Yeah, they are.
And there were two books written

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about this murder.
One of them was I think 600 plus

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pages.
The other one was 400 plus

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pages.
Like there's a lot of back story

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in this in this murder, and I
keep saying murder.

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It's kind of weird meow all of a
sudden.

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But especially coming from Salt
Lake City, it's a really

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interesting frame for how this
all goes down, because when you

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think of Salt Lake City and what
do you think of Salt Lake City,

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what do you think?
Well, I think some of my family

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is still there.
I think of beautiful mountains,

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nice places, mostly nice people,
things like that.

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Pretty low in the in the big
crime area I think, but that

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could be my lens.
Do you think of like society or

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either debutant balls or coming
out?

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I was never in that
neighborhood.

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I was not in that neighborhood.
So if.

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It's happening, Yeah.
So, so when people think of Salt

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Lake City, more than likely they
think of Mormons.

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I'm just going to say it because
it is a heavily Mormon populated

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area and they probably think
they probably, if they're not

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familiar with it, probably have
an idea of more what's kind of

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an Amish lifestyle.
But I've I've talked to a lot of

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people who think that Mormons
live like the Amish and don't

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use electricity and stuff like
that.

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Obviously it's not that
backwards.

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You and I both have lived in
Salt Lake City.

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I'm from Utah.
You're have lived in Utah for a

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long time until you move to the
Pacific Northwest.

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So we know that it's not like
that.

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And there's classy stuff like
Eccles Theatre, you know, you we

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get traveling Broadway shows
there.

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Look, it's.
It's not a.

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It's not a.
Backwards culture.

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It's not, it's not culture.
Yeah, sure.

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We, we don't walk around, all of
us, at least in our long dresses

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and little pinafores.
It's we do.

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I mean, some of us obviously,
like any community, do more of

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some things than other things.
There are, like you say, there

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are plays, there are Broadway
level plays, there's the ballet,

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there's the orchestra, there's
all kinds of things that and

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there's tons of fundraisers and
charity events and things where

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people would get dressed up and
have ball gowns.

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I have a few myself.
I actually did more of that sort

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of thing in Utah than I have
since I've been here.

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Mostly if it's anything other
than shorts and AT shirt I'm

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overdressed.
That is true.

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OK, Don't leave us hanging.
What are your So what are your

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sources?
One of my sources is Nutcracker

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Money Madness, Murder, a family
album by Shanna Alexander, and

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another is a book at Mother's
Request, a true story.

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And then also the documentary
Dominic Dunn's Power, Privilege

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and Justice had an episode on
this.

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And then my memory.
And so do you want to say I read

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the book?
I read it, Mother's Request when

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I was probably 13 or 14.
My mom had told me about this.

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I, you know, I've been reading
True Crime since I was a wee

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thing.
Probably 12 years old is when I

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started and I started with Anne
Rice and Rule.

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I do that every time.
I did not start with Anne Rice,

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but I did start with Anne Rule.
That makes more sense.

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And then I just, I've read a lot
of crime writers, sorry, true

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crime writers that don't write
as well as she does, that's for

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sure.
My mother's request was pretty

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good and pretty detailed.
This is the story of the murder

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of Franklin Bradshaw.
Have you ever heard of Bradshaw

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Auto Parts?
Yes.

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Are they related?
Uh huh.

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Franklin Bradshaw is the founder
of Bradshaw Auto Parts.

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He was born in 1889 and he made
his fortune in the oil and auto

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parts industries.
One of the things I didn't know

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until I researched this episode
for today is that he also had

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oil money.
I wondered for I mean, let's

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say, let's say I read this when
I was 14.

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So I've wondered for 35 years
how he was so rich because I

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just didn't believe that selling
auto parts was going to make

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you.
And you'll, you'll understand

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better when I get further into
the story.

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But he had to be very, very
wealthy to support some of the

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things that his daughter was
doing.

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And so I, I remember thinking
how just selling auto parts,

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could he be funding this
lifestyle?

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So learning that he actually had
he owned the most oil shares in

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the West or I can't remember
exactly what the details are,

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but his fortune was in oil as
well as the auto parts industry.

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Well, and a lot of people don't
know that there is oil in Utah.

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Yeah, yeah.
And it's a pretty big deal.

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It's slowed down now, I think,
but it was a really big the

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deal.
I know there's a lot of active

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oil wells still, sure.
But I don't think there's the

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money that there used to be in
it.

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No, I doubt it.
Yeah, Yep, I agree.

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So based in Salt Lake City, UT,
which I actually haven't

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mentioned yet.
This is Utah, for those who

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might not know, Franklin
Bradshaw was worth millions by

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the time he reached his eighty.
He wasn't your average

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millionaire.
He lived like a man with only a

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few dollars to his name.
And it's this is funny to me

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too.
I'm sorry if I sound like I'm

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reading.
I kind of am reading.

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This is also funny to me because
my dad was also once a

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millionaire and he also lived
like a man with only a few

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dollars to his name.
You know, he was always wearing

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janky overalls over an old
T-shirt.

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I mean you caricature eyes my
dad as like a cowpoke with a

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with a straw straw hanging out
his mouth and a wicked, wicked a

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Wicker hat.
I don't know what those are

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called in their hats, but you
know, a straw hat on his head.

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Overalls are burned.
But that's true, you know,

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though, actually the things I've
seen with people who have a lot

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of money, that's not uncommon.
And in some instances, because

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that's just who they are, and in
other instances they dress kind

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of janky because they can.
They're janky.

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May still be $2000 jeans, but it
looks like they're the jeans

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that I will.
Franklin Bradshaw.

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Franklin Bradshaw's jeans or
not.

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Turn around jeans Drovenil put
pick up.

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He wore worn out clothes.
When he needed new clothes, he

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bought them from the thrift
store.

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He used a beer carton as a
briefcase for his entire time at

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Bradshaw Auto Parts.
And it wasn't an act.

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You know, he truly believed in
thrift and, like you were just

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saying, maybe a bit of
eccentricity.

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Like, my dad also is very happy
to be eccentric in the dorkiest

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ways.
So he was also deeply private,

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very cautious with money and
became increasingly wary of his

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family as he got older and more
wealthy.

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And he had a reason to be.
So behind closed doors.

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Nobody in the family treated
Franklin's money like he did.

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They didn't want to be thrifty.
They didn't want to live, you

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know, low.
They lived in a very modest

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house.
Also, I remember one of the

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documentaries I was watching
while I did the research, people

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would say after he had died,
people would want to come by and

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see the house, you know, and
they're like, wait, he lived in

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that house.
So it was just he just really

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just, I mean, that you could say
he hoarded.

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I don't I don't want to use a
negative connotation and that,

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but he just really just did not
like to spend his money.

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And his wife wanted to his wife
wanted to show that they have

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money and she wanted to have the
new dresses and she wanted to

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have the but he was, you know,
head of the household.

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And what he said when she did
still his wife is like Bernie's

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did still spend money behind his
back that he wasn't aware of,

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but not so much that he would
miss it.

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However, his money became a
lifeline for his daughter

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Francis.
She was a woman who would become

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everything he was Not So
Francis.

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Before you carry on, remind me
the time frame this is.

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Again, I can't recall the 1800s.
Right now we're in the 1800s.

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In the 1930s, we're going to
we're going to end up in the

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late 70s.
Wow.

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OK, Yeah.
So Francis Bernice Bradshaw was

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born in 1938 in Utah.
She had beauty, charm and

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ambition and a dangerous sense
of entitlement.

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By her early 20s, she had moved
to Manhattan and immersed

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herself in a world of glamour,
influence and art.

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Spending dad's money?
Sorry.

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Spending dad's money.
Precisely.

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Precisely.
And I tried to look at how she

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first how and why she went to
New York and I wasn't really

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able to find a kind of a back
story on that.

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So I don't know how she
initially ended up in New York.

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I there's got to be, you know,
maybe our listeners know or can

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find it.
But in my research, I did not

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find how she ended up in New
York.

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Now I obviously didn't reread,
didn't reread that 600 and

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something page book and then
other I didn't read the other

227
00:11:57,560 --> 00:12:00,320
400 page books and it could
honestly be in there as well,

228
00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:04,200
but I don't remember.
I don't remember seeing it.

229
00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:09,080
That's a wildlife change to go
from Utah public area to New

230
00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:12,880
York City.
It really is so in New York

231
00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:16,600
City, Frances married, divorced,
remarried and then eventually

232
00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:18,280
lived apart from her second
husband.

233
00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:23,080
But what she clung to more than
any man was status.

234
00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:26,560
She joined the board of the New
York City Ballet.

235
00:12:26,560 --> 00:12:30,160
She wore Tiffany's jewels,
Tiffany jewels, excuse me,

236
00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:33,480
attended high society parties
and bragged about connections

237
00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:37,400
she barely had.
Francis's obsession with your

238
00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:39,360
high society was more than
superficial.

239
00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:42,120
She saw herself as destined for
greatness.

240
00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:44,640
She called herself an
intellectual and a patron of the

241
00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:49,320
arts, but none of it, as you
guessed, was funded by her own

242
00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:52,040
merit.
Her father, Franklin, was

243
00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:54,600
footing the bill.
And he didn't like what he said,

244
00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:56,600
what he saw.
Because, you know, he's this

245
00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:59,920
frugal guy.
And Manhattan in and of itself

246
00:12:59,920 --> 00:13:02,120
is expensive just living there,
period.

247
00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:05,120
Even if you're living there,
being as waitress, as they say,

248
00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:07,440
right?
Like, it's not cheap to live in

249
00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:09,560
in New York City.
And then you get Manhattan,

250
00:13:09,560 --> 00:13:13,680
that's even less cheap.
So by the mid 1970s, tensions

251
00:13:13,680 --> 00:13:15,720
between father and daughter had
escalated.

252
00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:19,480
Bradshaw, disappointed with
Francis's extravagant lifestyle,

253
00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:21,160
begin to tighten financial
support.

254
00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:24,240
Monthly transfers dwindled and
threats of being cut from the

255
00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:26,840
will emerged.
Francis, unemployed and

256
00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:29,920
separated from her second
husband, saw her I her entire

257
00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:33,400
identity and survival
threatened.

258
00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:40,800
So at the peak of him sending
her monthly checks before he

259
00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:43,920
stopped, before he started, they
they dwindled down.

260
00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:45,320
He didn't.
She didn't get immediately cut

261
00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:47,760
off, but he did eventually stop
sending money.

262
00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:53,480
But at the peak, he he was
sending her $3000 a month.

263
00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:54,840
What is it?
Today's time?

264
00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:56,880
Yeah.
It's how much in today's?

265
00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:59,280
Three things.
No, I'm asking you to guess.

266
00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:03,680
Oh yes, $20,000.
Close.

267
00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:07,120
It's about $14,800.
Wow.

268
00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:11,120
So I mean I wish I was getting
$14,800 a month for.

269
00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:12,800
Nothing.
No kidding.

270
00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:15,520
I mean, we could be sparkling.
We could be.

271
00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:16,760
Seriously.
Until.

272
00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:19,800
We wanted, I mean, it's a choice
not to be right now, but we

273
00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:21,080
could be, right?
Exactly.

274
00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:26,880
So oh man, I just can't even.
I can't imagine.

275
00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:30,320
OK, so keep in.
Mind no I can't either 3. $1000

276
00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:32,680
a month.
But he was also still, you know,

277
00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:37,320
paying his own bills and
whatever kids he had still at

278
00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:39,400
home.
So Francis panicked.

279
00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:42,160
Her entire world, her image, her
children's education, her

280
00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:47,120
reputation relied on that money.
And she wasn't about to lose it.

281
00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:52,360
Yeah.
This sounds like we're the hot

282
00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:55,400
thickens.
And so you were saying just a

283
00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:57,960
second ago, whatever other
children he had, do these

284
00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:00,960
stories not go into what other
children are around or did you

285
00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:02,200
it?
Well, it.

286
00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:04,080
Goes or is it relevant?
It may not be.

287
00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:05,600
Relevant.
What's relevant will come up.

288
00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:09,440
Yeah, OK, perfect.
So eventually Francis had three

289
00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:11,880
children.
One was Lorenzo, who went by

290
00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:18,240
Larry, one was Mark, and I don't
know who the third one was.

291
00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:21,000
I don't know why it's not in
here, but irrelevant.

292
00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:24,040
We'll call him Henry for this
moment.

293
00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:31,240
Oh dear, I'm sorry, sorry y'all,
it's not important.

294
00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:36,360
Though.
One of her sons mark Schroeder,

295
00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:38,560
because her married name was
Schroeder.

296
00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:40,320
We're talking.
We're still talking.

297
00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:42,240
Oh, OK, right.
We're talking about Francis's

298
00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:45,280
child, Mark, who is Franklin's
grandson.

299
00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:49,200
And Mark Schroeder was bright,
soft spoken and somewhat

300
00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:54,560
emotionally fragile.
He was 17 years old in 1978 when

301
00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:57,400
his mother began manipulating
him into believing his

302
00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:00,520
grandfather was evil, cruel and
an obstacle to their success.

303
00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:09,200
So she was relentless with the
gaslighting and the, you know,

304
00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:13,600
the manipulation, the mind, the,
what's it called, brainwashing.

305
00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:19,720
Just absolutely convincing her
children, particularly Mark and

306
00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:23,760
Larry, that how awful their
grandpa was and how he didn't

307
00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:25,880
love them and he was going to
ruin their lives and they were

308
00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:28,880
going to starve to death on the
streets and just absolute.

309
00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:32,840
Ridiculousness, frankly.
Were they still in New York or

310
00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:35,040
had they moved back to Utah?
No, they were still in New York.

311
00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:39,040
But of note, the boys would come
back in the summer and they

312
00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:41,440
would work for Franklin at the
auto parts store.

313
00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:44,160
And what while they were working
at the auto parts store, they

314
00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:47,320
were frequently stealing money
from like the till or the

315
00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:50,800
whatever and.
On their mother's behest or

316
00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:52,160
just.
Because that's, Oh no, just

317
00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:54,280
their shits.
Yeah, perfect.

318
00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:57,000
Good day.
I'm parenting there.

319
00:16:57,880 --> 00:16:59,520
Yeah, please.
Still as much as you can and

320
00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:01,320
bring it home.
Exactly.

321
00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:05,200
They would do drugs while they
were there.

322
00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:07,800
I mean, they just were totally
disrespectful of Franklin and he

323
00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:10,240
started to get a little peeved
with them as well.

324
00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:13,200
So their relationship with him
started to sour.

325
00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:16,480
And of course, Francis took
advantage of that and made that

326
00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:19,520
about her and the money instead
of about the way they were

327
00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:21,680
treating their grandpa and his
response to that, right.

328
00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:23,720
And again.
That doesn't surprise me given

329
00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:27,000
what I know so far.
Yeah, again, he's going to cut

330
00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:28,840
us off completely.
We're going to be homeless.

331
00:17:29,360 --> 00:17:34,160
And eventually she told Mark He
was the only one who could save

332
00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:35,480
them.
So.

333
00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:39,120
For Mark, I feel really sad for
Mark already.

334
00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:43,080
Yeah, I do feel I might feel bad
about feeling sad, but still,

335
00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:47,160
he's being manipulated.
Yeah, so in the summer of 1977,

336
00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:52,400
Francis had her son's poison
Franklin Bradshaw's food in

337
00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:54,680
hopes of triggering A fatal
heart attack.

338
00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:58,360
So that didn't work.
And when it failed, Mark and

339
00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:02,120
Larry stole roughly $200,000
from Bradshaw's estate.

340
00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:06,520
And in this case, when they did
this, they took valuables and

341
00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:09,080
sold them and things like that.
Oh I was going to say, how does

342
00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:11,680
one just pocket $200,000?
Is it sitting around?

343
00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:14,120
From the yeah, not from the
pill.

344
00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:16,440
Right.
I was like, that's some big

345
00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:18,960
sticky fingers.
Yeah.

346
00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:20,960
So they stole.
Stephen hawked it.

347
00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:24,520
Yeah.
Oh my gosh, these are some nice

348
00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:27,720
looking kids.
And again, is this this is to

349
00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:30,600
they couldn't kill him, so now
they're just stealing his money.

350
00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:33,680
Yeah, yeah, excellent.
Yeah, nice.

351
00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:36,960
So, yeah, so.
Have a nice family reunion this

352
00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:37,880
year, kids.
Right.

353
00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:42,640
Francis had also planned to burn
his warehouse down or use other

354
00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:44,520
legal methods, but none
succeeded.

355
00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:48,600
She also hired a hit man,
allegedly.

356
00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:53,400
This has never been proven.
A hitman named Miles Manning who

357
00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:57,160
turned out to be a fake, but he
did end up helping her to

358
00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:00,960
procure a gun.
So he's a fake, isn't he was a

359
00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:03,160
scammer or he just didn't really
kill people?

360
00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:04,840
He just didn't really kill
people.

361
00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:07,480
So he so he's sort of a scammer
on both hands.

362
00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:10,320
Yeah, I'm guessing he probably
was like, kill people all the

363
00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:11,880
time.
And then when she's like, OK,

364
00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:14,640
kill my dad, he's like, but I'm
just kidding, I don't do

365
00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:15,920
anymore.
That's right.

366
00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:17,720
I think I'm retired now.
Thanks.

367
00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:19,000
Bye.
Yeah.

368
00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:22,440
But he was still hanging.
Wait so dude says he's going to

369
00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:24,760
do something, scams are out of
money and then still ends up

370
00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:26,720
helping?
Helping her find a gun, Yeah,

371
00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:29,080
it's weird.
This is very strange.

372
00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:32,160
You know, some of these cases,
and you may or may not touch on

373
00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:35,560
this later, but some of the way
ways that people are able to

374
00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:39,240
manipulate other people is
astounding to me.

375
00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:42,280
And it's almost always some
female who has some whiles that

376
00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:48,160
they can, you know, get the guy.
But Gee whiz, I feel like I

377
00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:51,200
wouldn't be scammed like that.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I just

378
00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:54,800
think that I would notice
anyway.

379
00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:56,200
So carry on.
This is fascinating.

380
00:19:56,440 --> 00:20:00,560
So the morning of July 23rd,
1978, Mark flew from New York

381
00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:04,800
City to Salt Lake City and
around 7:30 AM he walked into

382
00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:07,880
his grandfather's auto Parts
auto parts warehouse.

383
00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:09,880
Franklin was sitting at his
desk.

384
00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:13,320
They spoke briefly and then Mark
pulled out a 357 Magnum and shot

385
00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:16,000
his grandfather twice, once in
the back and once in the head.

386
00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:19,400
He just shot him.
Just said it something to the

387
00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:20,920
effect I mean, we don't know
what he said right, but

388
00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:23,400
something to the effect of hey
grandpa, how you doing or who

389
00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:24,880
knows right but then just.
Shot him.

390
00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:26,720
Wait.
And so was grandpa.

391
00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:29,160
Well, you might go on, but I'm
just like, so he's just sitting

392
00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:31,400
there by himself.
And he was in his 80s at this

393
00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:34,440
point, right?
And yeah, he was just sitting by

394
00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:37,920
himself because he's early to
early to rise, early to work,

395
00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:39,200
you know, that sort of person,
right.

396
00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:44,040
So I think that I think I read
somewhere that he slept like 4

397
00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:45,880
hours a night and was working
the rest of his life.

398
00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:49,200
No, by the way, he was not
Mormon even though he lived in

399
00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:52,640
the Mormon majority And and the
Mormon majority was much greater

400
00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:56,560
in the in the 1800s and you
know, even up to the 70s than it

401
00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:59,360
is today.
It was probably into the 90s

402
00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:01,240
percentile I would imagine at
that point.

403
00:21:01,360 --> 00:21:03,960
All of his employees that
weren't his grandchildren were

404
00:21:04,120 --> 00:21:06,240
all Mormons.
I mean, that tells you, I think

405
00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:07,800
kind of what we're thinking
about.

406
00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:10,480
Yeah.
And so far none of his other

407
00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:12,000
employees have tried to kill
him, I don't think.

408
00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:17,840
No, no, I don't think so.
So Mark rifled through

409
00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:20,520
Franklin's pockets to make it
look like a robbery, then fled.

410
00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:23,600
And this was 70.
So it predates a lot of, I mean

411
00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:26,960
it predates DNA and fingerprints
don't do much good at this

412
00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:27,960
point.
Right.

413
00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:30,520
At first, the authorities did
believe it was robbery gone

414
00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:34,320
wrong, Something, you know, as
is often the case, didn't seem

415
00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:36,360
right.
There's no forced entry, no

416
00:21:36,360 --> 00:21:38,800
signs of struggle.
And Franklin's family,

417
00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:41,440
especially Francis, seem oddly
composed.

418
00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:46,120
Now, it's fair to say that
Franklin did not have a warm,

419
00:21:46,120 --> 00:21:49,320
cozy relationship with anybody
in his family, his wife,

420
00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:55,600
Bernie's included, right?
So I can see how they may not be

421
00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:59,280
melting down over his death.
And frankly, from what I

422
00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:01,320
understand, I'm going to say
allegedly because I don't want

423
00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:07,120
to get sued because there are
still some folks alive, they

424
00:22:07,120 --> 00:22:09,520
enjoyed the money more than they
enjoyed their fathers.

425
00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:12,880
So his death meant the money was
all theirs now, right?

426
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:18,480
And also a lot of people who are
like this tend to be globally

427
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:20,680
unpleasant, not just unpleasant
to his family.

428
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:24,520
So a lot of these cases even
employees may have worked for

429
00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:26,920
him, but they may not have liked
him because a lot of.

430
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:28,880
His employees didn't like him,
but they.

431
00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:31,480
They did or did not.
They liked working for him.

432
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:34,400
They didn't know much about him.
He stayed completely private at

433
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:37,600
work so they said he was a good
boss, told him what to do, paid

434
00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:40,480
him on time, but that's all they
care about, his personal life.

435
00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:44,440
Yeah, interesting.
But like I say, I have the

436
00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:46,360
different stories I've read and
heard about.

437
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:50,600
Most of the people that family
didn't like it all has had some

438
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:52,600
reason for it.
Although he may have been

439
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:55,440
innocent on why they didn't like
him because he maybe didn't have

440
00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:57,560
loose enough purse strings but
but still.

441
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:00,520
Yeah.
There's there's no indication,

442
00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:02,640
at least from what you said so
far, that he was abusive or

443
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:05,480
anything like that, was he?
There's no indication I don't.

444
00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:09,480
I mean based on the fact that he
was raising children in the 30s,

445
00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:13,160
I imagine he took a hands on
approach to discipline.

446
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:16,440
Right, which is different from
what we we experienced,

447
00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:20,240
hopefully, but probably not.
I mean, nobody said, Oh my gosh,

448
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:23,480
she would do XY and Z and that's
why he was a horrible father.

449
00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:25,400
OK, cool.
All right, so good.

450
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:29,920
So he gets killed and then
they're starting to think it's

451
00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:35,760
weird.
The case kind of goes cold for.

452
00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:38,440
So they're still suspicious, but
they haven't put anything

453
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:40,760
together at this point, right?
Right.

454
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:47,200
They're like not no forced
entry, you know, not really

455
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:49,840
anything still on because like
rifling through his pockets is

456
00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:54,440
very different than like file
cabinets, file cabinets or until

457
00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:57,640
or something like that, right?
Yeah, and also, I mean, the

458
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:01,680
forced entry has less impact on
me than other things because he

459
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:04,320
could have just always left the
door open and people could know

460
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:06,600
that.
So a forced entry isn't always a

461
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:08,760
red flag to me for those
reasons.

462
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:12,120
I think it's more now because
more people lock things all the

463
00:24:12,120 --> 00:24:16,600
time, especially in the 70s.
You're too young, but in my

464
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:19,520
family rarely was a door locked
even at night time.

465
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:21,000
I'm not too young for are you
kidding me?

466
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:25,960
Well, I mean, OK, my doors.
Weren't locked until I was in my

467
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:27,480
late teens.
Oh really?

468
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:29,600
And actually specifically
because we were threatened by

469
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:32,440
somebody.
Yeah, and ours got locked

470
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:34,440
because of of an incident as
well.

471
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:37,040
But anyway, go ahead.
There were theories, of course.

472
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:39,480
You know, things like a pot
strawberry business deal gone

473
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:41,880
wrong, somebody who just didn't
like Franklin.

474
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:44,480
Who knew?
But there was no proof, no

475
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:47,280
weapon, no solid leads until
someone talked.

476
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,760
Oh, in a quiet.
OK, first of all, I want to say

477
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:53,680
one thing I've heard.
Let me tell you this and I'll

478
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:56,200
say the thing, but I'll tell it
this way first.

479
00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:59,080
In a quiet Manhattan police
precinct, a young man walked in

480
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:02,520
holding a secret he couldn't
carry anymore.

481
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:04,880
Oh my, Oh my God.
Delicate.

482
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:10,080
He wasn't just a friend of Mark
Schroeder's.

483
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:14,400
He was the friend Mark trusted
most, the one he believed to

484
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:16,720
keep his secret safe.
And he'd been holding on to

485
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:23,440
something for nearly two years.
No kidding.

486
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:25,480
Oh, Mark, did you flap your
lips?

487
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:31,840
And now people know a gun.
He got the gun from the. 357

488
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:34,320
Magnum revolver that Mark used
to kill his grandfather.

489
00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:38,280
He gave it to his friend for
safekeeping, I guess.

490
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,520
Oh.
Here, hide this, Hide this

491
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:46,680
weapon of murder for me, please.
Sure, I'll take a gun from him.

492
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:48,000
That's what he said.
Just hold this.

493
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:49,680
Just hold it.
Would you wipe the Prince off,

494
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:55,800
Mark?
He told the police that that

495
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:59,320
Mark had given it to him not
long after returning from Salt

496
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:02,520
Lake City, told him not to ask
questions and told them to hide

497
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:07,920
it.
OK, so in my in my life, wait in

498
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:11,240
my life, if someone says here,
hold this gun, but don't ask me

499
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,360
any questions, that's going to
trigger a red flag or two.

500
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,320
I are here.
Here's a bloody sword.

501
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:19,800
Would you hold this for me?
Don't worry about why it's

502
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:22,000
bloody.
No, no, my sister didn't just

503
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:23,280
die.
I don't know why you're asking.

504
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,800
Anytime anyone says don't ask
any questions, that's the real

505
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:27,960
time.
I'm going to have a lot of

506
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:29,160
questions.
Right.

507
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:31,200
OK.
But his friend doesn't ask any

508
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:33,880
questions, not for.
And for two years he doesn't ask

509
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:35,600
any questions.
Oh my gosh.

510
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:39,440
So their friendship might see
here's the writing on the wall

511
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:40,680
for me.
Their friendship failed.

512
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,920
Or their relationship air quotes
if that's what it was, failed.

513
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:45,920
So now he may have an extra
grind.

514
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:54,680
Maybe, but he he claimed that he
was there because his conscience

515
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:57,560
wouldn't wouldn't let him keep
the secret.

516
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:01,360
I can definitely see that too.
I just I think it would eat away

517
00:27:01,360 --> 00:27:03,920
at a person, especially if they
have suspicions, even if they

518
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:05,320
don't know for sure.
Good job.

519
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:09,600
So once the weapon was in police
custody, it was tested, traced

520
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:14,760
and confirmed.
However, the police did not

521
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:19,280
believe it was enough because
they couldn't find because

522
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:22,240
Frank, I'm sorry, Mark was
allegedly in New York City and

523
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:24,920
hadn't gone anywhere.
And they searched the the

524
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:26,680
manifest.
They searched the manifest of

525
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:30,440
all the flights from New York to
Salt Lake that could have, you

526
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:33,240
know, been timed for this murder
to happen.

527
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:36,240
And Mark was not on it.
Now, I will say again, this is

528
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:38,160
1978.
You can walk on a plane.

529
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:41,200
Totally.
No, there's no metal detectors.

530
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:43,880
There's no literally you can
walk in.

531
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:47,640
You can actually buy your ticket
at the gate where you now these

532
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:51,600
days you check in and again,
your name is is Michael Michael

533
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:53,960
Martin Montgomery Martin.
What?

534
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:58,000
You can tell them your name is
Joe Smith.

535
00:27:58,120 --> 00:28:01,000
How's that?
They don't care if you're.

536
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:02,440
I would have gotten the other
one for sure.

537
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:08,560
Like my name is.
Yes, I I will make a nondescript

538
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:09,480
name.
No one will notice.

539
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:10,280
Reference.
Reference.

540
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:13,400
That's hilarious.
Yeah, when I want to change my

541
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:15,360
name, I'm going to definitely
ask you what I should say.

542
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:22,000
So they kind of, you know, they
knew that, but one of the

543
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:26,640
detectives decided that they
were going to just for fun of

544
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:30,800
it, check some other some some
flight routes that had layovers.

545
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:33,040
And sure enough, they found a
layover.

546
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:36,720
I believe it was in Albuquerque,
but I don't want to be quoted on

547
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,240
that.
But it was New York City to I

548
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:40,920
believe in Albuquerque and then
Salt Lake City.

549
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:45,800
And it was in black and white,
Mark Schroeder, his real name.

550
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:50,920
So they had that.
So of course, now it's time to

551
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:54,280
make an arrest.
Good idea.

552
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:58,600
So within weeks, Mark Mark
Schroeder was arrested in New

553
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:01,600
York.
And when detectives asked him

554
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:07,200
why he did it, he was really
tight lipped about it and didn't

555
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:10,600
really have any good reasons.
And eventually, with the the

556
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:14,320
authorities kind of pressing on
him, he admitted that it was his

557
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:16,680
mother that had given him the
instruction to kill his

558
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:21,120
grandfather.
Yeah, his mother, Franklin's

559
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:23,480
daughter.
It was in that moment the dam

560
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:29,160
broke, the weapon no one thought
they'd ever find delivered, and

561
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:33,560
the tenacity of the police force
finding Marks name on a manifest

562
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:36,680
from New York to Salt Lake City,
albeit not direct.

563
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:42,280
It was the end of 1 chapter in
the beginning of another because

564
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:49,360
as we said, he said that and his
mother had put him up to it.

565
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,760
So I keep saying I don't know
why I was thinking about you

566
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:54,640
want to know it's $1,000,000
idea.

567
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:58,200
I should put it on a podcast out
to the world so that I lose it.

568
00:29:58,200 --> 00:29:59,880
But you know what's $1,000,000
idea?

569
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:05,560
An AI that just automatically
edits voice stuff and takes out

570
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:07,080
all the Umm's just
automatically.

571
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:09,720
You say the UMM button, they're
all gone there.

572
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:12,080
You go.
That'd be amazing.

573
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:15,640
I do think it would be amazing.
Maybe I'll create it.

574
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:18,000
OK, you should.
I wanted.

575
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:20,480
I wanted.
OK, we'll do it.

576
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:24,360
So in 1982, Mark was convicted
of second degree murder and

577
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:28,360
served 12 years.
He did end up testifying against

578
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:32,840
his mother in a way that I think
is astounding.

579
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:36,800
She was actually charged and
found guilty of first degree

580
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:39,520
murder.
Because she had asked for him to

581
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:43,160
do it.
Yeah, because she had put him up

582
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:44,880
to it, basically.
Right.

583
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:49,920
So I intentionally wanted to
look into how this affected the

584
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:53,760
auto parts industry, just
because Bradshaw was like a big

585
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:56,160
name in auto.
Bradshaw was a big name in auto

586
00:30:56,160 --> 00:31:02,760
parts when I was delivering auto
parts in probably the late 90s.

587
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:05,440
Yeah, I remember it.
Yeah, he was dead.

588
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:08,840
So it it.
But from what I could find, the

589
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:12,120
murder didn't really have any
impact on the auto parts

590
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:14,120
industry.
Bradshaw's holdings were quietly

591
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:16,040
divided and absorbed and sold
off.

592
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:18,600
Other local business owners
picked up the pieces.

593
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:21,400
No disruption, no economic shock
waves.

594
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:24,800
The Broadway name just faded
from ledgers and warehouses.

595
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:29,040
And I remember that.
I remember the warehouse that

596
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:32,800
was Bradshaw Warehouse.
And that I just remember because

597
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:35,200
it was after I read this book
that I was aware of it, of

598
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:37,440
course.
And I just remember watching the

599
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:41,640
paint fade over time until
eventually it was painted over

600
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:46,960
and there was no more Bradshaw
warehouse and it was wild to to

601
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:50,280
experience.
Francis was released from prison

602
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:55,280
13 years after she was found
guilty in 1996.

603
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:59,160
That's all she got was 13.
What was her sentenced for?

604
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:01,160
Her sentence was for first
degree murder.

605
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:06,200
What's crazy is that Mark was
sentenced to 12 years in prison,

606
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:10,480
her second degree murder.
So she got one year more even

607
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:12,600
though hers was first degree
murder and his was second.

608
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:13,760
Degree murder.
My goodness.

609
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:17,040
Wow, I guess we didn't.
Didn't bother her much back then

610
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:20,040
I guess.
Right, so here's the irony.

611
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:23,160
Francis killed her father in
large part to secure her

612
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:26,120
inheritance.
But Franklin had already

613
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:30,120
disinherited her.
She had nothing coming.

614
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,080
So she met her life and her
son's life.

615
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:40,000
Which is my favorite word.
That's not a word, Bernice.

616
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,880
Her mother never stopped
supporting her daughter.

617
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:44,920
She was a pushover.
Well, maybe.

618
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:47,480
Maybe her daughter did what
she's wanted to do for years.

619
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:50,640
Maybe, maybe so.
After Francis was released from

620
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:54,000
prison, there was a trust fund
that Bernice had set up for her

621
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:58,000
at a condo in California.
But she spent it all in the end.

622
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:02,720
She died in 2004, broken alone
in Hospice.

623
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:05,560
Interestingly, her death
certificate listed her

624
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:08,280
occupation as writer.
I'd be curious to know if there

625
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:10,400
are actually any publications
out there by her.

626
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:13,280
Yeah, Mark changed his name,
lived quietly.

627
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:15,960
He's never publicly spoken in
detail about the case.

628
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:17,760
Hasn't.
Killed anyone else since then

629
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:19,760
that we're aware of that.
We're aware of, yeah.

630
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:23,120
Did Mark get anything?
I mean, Francis was supported,

631
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:24,880
but was Mark supported?
I don't know.

632
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,120
That's a great question.
I it doesn't really say

633
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:29,560
anything.
They really focused on Francis

634
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:35,800
in, I think, because I think
because it was so manipulative

635
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:38,880
and brainwashing and it was so
obvious that she was behind it.

636
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:41,760
I think that's why people focus
on her and because she's a

637
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:44,880
crazy, selfish bitch, frankly.
Like, Oh my gosh.

638
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:48,720
There's.
That wow, if my dad was giving

639
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:52,720
me $14,000 a month I don't think
I'd be an asshole to him.

640
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:57,120
You know, like craziness.
Yeah, but remember he was

641
00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:00,000
cutting her off so she had to
secure the future I.

642
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:02,680
Just can't imagine.
Heaven forbid she start working

643
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:05,720
because actually, you know, at
that point really if we think

644
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:09,159
about he was 80 when he was
killed, she would have probably

645
00:34:09,159 --> 00:34:12,480
been at least in her late 50s
and never had lifted a finger to

646
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:15,679
do a solitary thing.
So I could see how she would

647
00:34:15,679 --> 00:34:17,880
totally be freaked outgoing.
Wait, I don't even know how to

648
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:20,600
work, let alone have any way to
get a job.

649
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:24,040
I actually believe she was 40.
I believe she was born in 38.

650
00:34:24,679 --> 00:34:27,280
Oh, OK.
Let me see, even still, she was

651
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:29,880
born in 38.
So she was 40 when he was

652
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:32,960
killed, but still, yeah.
Having never worked, she would

653
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:34,639
have.
It's not like what's on your

654
00:34:34,639 --> 00:34:37,159
resume.
Taking advantage of my father.

655
00:34:37,159 --> 00:34:40,520
Do I get a job for that?
Got good experience?

656
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:43,639
Who can I take advantage of?
Yeah, well, she wanted to live

657
00:34:43,639 --> 00:34:46,239
like the robber barons, right?
She wanted to sit in with them

658
00:34:46,679 --> 00:34:48,920
and like you.
You can't you.

659
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:50,679
It's new money, right?
New Ori.

660
00:34:50,679 --> 00:34:53,679
She you can't.
You can't buy your way into it.

661
00:34:53,679 --> 00:34:56,000
Yeah, she may have gotten on to
the New York City Ballet, but

662
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,000
that's because she donated money
she didn't have.

663
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:03,360
And that was The thing is she
wanted so much to be elite and

664
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:06,960
to be with the elite that that
mattered more to her than her

665
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:09,120
family.
And something interesting also

666
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:14,360
that I that I read is when they
asked what one of the times they

667
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:18,400
asked Mark why he did it, he
just looked at them and said no.

668
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:19,560
But it's something to the effect
of it.

669
00:35:19,720 --> 00:35:22,640
Nobody says no to mom or it's
very hard to say no to mom.

670
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:28,200
And it was just like, I also
can't imagine anyone having that

671
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:30,160
kind of mental control over me,
right?

672
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:32,560
That I wouldn't be able to say
no to them if they asked me to

673
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:36,600
do something illegal, immoral,
insane.

674
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:40,120
Well, of course, you look at
lots and lots of people who end

675
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:43,240
up doing stuff like this, and
most people don't get

676
00:35:43,240 --> 00:35:46,240
brainwashed in an afternoon.
This is something that's been

677
00:35:46,240 --> 00:35:47,920
happening for years and years
and years.

678
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:51,880
And you think of people who have
been abused where the first day

679
00:35:52,240 --> 00:35:55,840
they were abused, if someone had
whacked inside upside the head

680
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:57,760
really hard, they wouldn't stand
for it.

681
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:02,120
But two years later, it's not
that big a deal because they

682
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:06,360
become desensitized to it or
they realized only where they're

683
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:09,560
going to get by.
Because we have no idea what his

684
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:11,720
Francis did to Mark or the other
kids.

685
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:15,440
They had no idea they could he.
She could have really been doing

686
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:19,040
a lot more things in the
background that no one said or

687
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:23,680
that it just wasn't brought up.
But even just word control can

688
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:25,760
make a huge difference.
Yeah.

689
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:30,440
And it's also a very common
feature in these killers,

690
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:33,080
whether they're individual
killers for personal gain or

691
00:36:33,240 --> 00:36:37,520
serial killers, they somehow are
either good at believing they're

692
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:42,480
something they're not, or they
want so badly to be that that

693
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:46,080
they, I think a lot of them
start losing the ability to tell

694
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:47,560
what is real and what is not
real.

695
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:52,360
They've been pretending for so
long they they may not even

696
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:54,720
remember what is real and what
is not real.

697
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:59,720
I know we were talking about a
topic recently on one of our

698
00:36:59,720 --> 00:37:03,160
episodes about how been told the
story so many times.

699
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:06,360
You you believe it, but then
maybe talk about it with someone

700
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:09,320
who really was in the story too.
And your version was completely

701
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:10,440
wrong.
And it can be proven.

702
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:13,480
But we've heard it one way or
created in our minds one way.

703
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:15,960
We actually believe that's what
really happened.

704
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:19,880
And I think the psychology
behind people who are able to be

705
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:24,120
manipulated like that is really
interesting because you also

706
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:26,640
said he was a fragile, emotional
person.

707
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:29,720
Was he fragile and emotional
prior to his mother or I mean,

708
00:37:29,720 --> 00:37:32,280
did was he born that way or did
he get built that way?

709
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:34,080
Right.
It's yeah.

710
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:35,800
How much is nurture, How much is
nature?

711
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:39,320
One of the things that one of
the sources called it was a slow

712
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:43,040
psychological poisoning, which I
thought was really interesting.

713
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:46,440
And also one of the things I, I
thought I had remembered that

714
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:49,600
Mark had like fetal alcohol
syndrome or something like that.

715
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:52,480
He did not.
He was perfectly healthy as far

716
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:55,120
as that goes.
No mention of, you know, head

717
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:57,840
injuries or anything like that.
And says, there you go.

718
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:01,360
The memory I made-up, right.
I don't know if he was just a

719
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:05,080
mama's boy.
You know, maybe he was the

720
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:07,160
easiest for Francis to
manipulate.

721
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:09,840
And so she latched on to that.
I I honestly don't know.

722
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:13,160
One of the things I was going to
ask you, you said they attempted

723
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:15,160
to poison him first.
The boys attempted that.

724
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:17,280
Do you?
Do you have any idea what the

725
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:19,520
poison was?
Arsenic was the poison du jour.

726
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:21,600
I think it was rat poison, which
would be arsenic.

727
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:24,160
Yeah, it is.
But yeah, they put some people

728
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:25,440
have.
It straight arsenic.

729
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:28,280
Some people buy poison, so.
Yeah, they put it in his lunch

730
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:29,640
pail.
I know that.

731
00:38:30,240 --> 00:38:32,360
This was back in the day of
lunch pails.

732
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:37,040
Yeah, I just.
I just, you know, I just can't

733
00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:39,480
get over it.
This is why this and This is why

734
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:42,360
I was saying he had to have oil
money to support this because

735
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:45,000
you can't, you can't live in
Manhattan.

736
00:38:45,240 --> 00:38:48,160
I believe she was on the Upper
East Side, but don't quote me on

737
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:50,120
that also because I can't
remember.

738
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:52,920
It was definitely not, you know,
it's definitely not a walk up

739
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:55,720
studio where you had to put your
under socks and underwear in the

740
00:38:55,720 --> 00:38:59,480
oven.
Oh, that sounds fun.

741
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:00,520
Ron Bradshaw.
That's scary.

742
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:04,880
Bradshaw.
That's hilarious, and I can't

743
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:07,600
imagine her being willing to
walk up anywhere from what you

744
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:10,600
described.
So yeah, there and also there

745
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:14,440
could have been some family
money, but there was.

746
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:17,320
If a person's in the right place
at the right time, even if they

747
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:20,200
don't have any other discernible
skills, they can certainly

748
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:24,040
create some good finances.
I haven't been in the right

749
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:25,200
place at the right time quite
yet.

750
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:28,360
Any minute now, though.
Still waiting for mega Mega

751
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:29,480
Millions lottery?
Tickets.

752
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:30,720
Yeah.
No kidding.

753
00:39:30,720 --> 00:39:32,760
I guess I got to play.
You got to buy the tickets.

754
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:35,200
Yeah.
But it's funny.

755
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:38,800
People say money doesn't change
a person.

756
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:42,120
I don't know anyone who has
sudden, especially suddenly

757
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:44,400
gotten a lot of money and not
changed.

758
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:47,440
And not always to the worst, but
there's still going to be a

759
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:48,560
difference.
Yeah.

760
00:39:49,240 --> 00:39:51,760
Definitely.
I'm willing to try just for the

761
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:54,120
record listeners.
I'd love to.

762
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:58,080
Be the the Guinea pig for that.
Yeah, I'm happy to see if I

763
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:02,320
become a horrid person or I just
enjoy my life and sharing more.

764
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:04,720
That's probably it.
Yeah, but don't worry,

765
00:40:04,720 --> 00:40:06,480
listeners, please send money
too.

766
00:40:07,720 --> 00:40:10,080
I was, I was driving through a
Richie Rich neighborhood

767
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:12,520
yesterday and I live in a modest
house.

768
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:16,760
You know, it's not, it's fine.
It's not shabby and not brand

769
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:19,480
new, fancy and huge.
It's just perfect for what we

770
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:22,360
need.
And I was like, if I won, if I

771
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:24,960
won 138 million, I have no idea
how much the lottery is, but

772
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:28,440
like 138 million or 50 million
or whatever it could be, would I

773
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:31,320
buy a new house?
And I was like, no, I love my

774
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:32,360
house.
I love my house.

775
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:34,400
But I would probably put a pool
in the backyard.

776
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:39,840
Well, if you work it right, then
with all the storms you can just

777
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:42,320
dig a hole and it's all good,
no?

778
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:45,920
Kidding.
No kidding, but it's true.

779
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:50,040
And also many, many people who
do win the lottery end up more

780
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:52,920
destitute they than they were
when they began, partially

781
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:55,800
because I personally think that
there should be financial

782
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:58,600
planning that is automatically
assigned to someone when they

783
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:02,640
win a large amount of money like
that, because people just don't

784
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:05,120
know.
And so many of the people who do

785
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:07,600
win have been very poor to
start.

786
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:09,720
And then everybody comes out of
the woodwork and ask for stuff

787
00:41:09,720 --> 00:41:14,000
and they get scammed or or just
don't understand that while it's

788
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:17,000
$1,000,000 or more, a million
isn't what it used to be.

789
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:20,200
And now suddenly you're making
riskier choices, you're doing

790
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:22,400
whatever.
But I think it would be

791
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:25,160
appropriate to have some, a
financial planner assigned to

792
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:28,160
them at the time of winning.
And I don't think they are.

793
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:30,600
I've never heard that.
But it would be good.

794
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:33,960
It would be good to help people,
not throw all their money away.

795
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:36,520
I know one of the things that
people often don't think about

796
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:39,440
is just the fact, you know, they
go buy a big brand new house and

797
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:41,520
it's like, yeah, it's cool that
you can afford the house, but

798
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:44,680
what the utilities for that
house are going to be quadruple

799
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:47,320
what the utilities were for you
and your old, you know, your old

800
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:50,440
house at least, at least.
And tax.

801
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:52,600
And then you and those don't
change.

802
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:54,600
You can't shrink the house you
moved into.

803
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:56,960
And so I think that gets people
into a lot of trouble too.

804
00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:00,880
It's just not the four side of
it's not just by this house and

805
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:04,160
we're all done here.
However, again, listeners, feel

806
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:05,680
free to send us money at any
time.

807
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:09,520
We're happy to accept it.
We're also happy to win the Mega

808
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:12,520
Millions, even if we don't play.
We're we're willing to do.

809
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:15,480
Yeah, we're willing.
Well, that's been a great story,

810
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:16,400
Crystal.
Thank you.

811
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:20,280
I had never heard of them.
As far as the murder, definitely

812
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:24,080
like you said, the Bradshaw auto
parts, that's the plot thickens.

813
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:26,520
The plot thickens.
Yeah, and in the.

814
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:30,600
Words of In the words of our our
favorite murder.

815
00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:34,240
In the words of my favorite
murder, that's kind of our

816
00:42:34,240 --> 00:42:38,360
hometown.
This is true, it was a hometown

817
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:42,680
for us, but both of us are kind
of too young to at least

818
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:44,360
remembered it.
When yeah, I was thinking I was

819
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:46,800
going to ask my dad if he knew
Franklin Bradshaw, then I was

820
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:51,840
like, my dad was like 36 and and
still in school, so no.

821
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:54,440
Unless we worked for him at some
point.

822
00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:56,240
Yeah, that's right.
That's funny.

823
00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:57,320
All right.
Well, cool.

824
00:42:57,320 --> 00:42:59,760
Thanks.
Well, we'll have a a murder

825
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:03,840
topic, a medical topic, a mayhem
topic, or just a mystery topic

826
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:04,800
in our next.
Episode.

827
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:06,800
That's right.
Thanks y'all.

828
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:09,680
All right, if you've made it
this far, clearly you like a

829
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:11,320
little mayhem with your
medicine.

830
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:14,160
Or you just enjoy hearing us
ramble about weird medical

831
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:16,360
mysteries.
Either way, we'd love you for

832
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:18,560
it.
So hit that follow or subscribe

833
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:19,960
button wherever you're
listening.

834
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:22,120
And toss us a rating or review
while you're at it.

835
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:24,960
Helps other curious weirdos find
the show.

836
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:27,760
And we know there are a lot of
you out there.

837
00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:30,600
Oh so many.
Come join the chaos.

838
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:33,800
Thanks for listening to
Medicine, Mystery, mayhem, and

839
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:36,440
sometimes Murder.
Do you have an idea for an

840
00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:39,320
episode of this podcast?
Just want to say hi?

841
00:43:39,720 --> 00:43:42,720
You can get in touch with us at
our M4 pod.

842
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:49,720
That's OURM
thenumberfourpod@gmail.com.

843
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:54,200
We read every e-mail, and
sometimes we even respond just

844
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:57,000
like real professionals.
Because we are.

845
00:43:57,120 --> 00:44:01,880
Old friends with new twists and
lots of body bags.