Ep. 32: You Are Not Alone

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Welcome to M4 Medicine, mystery,
mayhem, and sometimes murder.

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I'm Andrea Marziano and RN with
35 years of experience across

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various fields.
From direct patient care in

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hospitals to home health,
geriatrics, and injury medicine,

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I face life, death, and
everything in between.

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And I'm Crystal Miller and RN
with 13 1/2 years of experience.

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My work spans home health,
Hospice, emergency care,

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geriatrics, and occupational
health.

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From the chaos of trauma based
quiet moments with patients,

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I've seen stories that defy
explanations.

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We've been friends for over 25
years and as nurses we've shared

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countless stories that have left
us and our families speechless.

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Now we're bringing those stories
and many more to you in

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medicine, mystery, mayhem, and
sometimes murder.

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Each week, we'll uncover cases
that challenge the boundaries of

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medicine, sharing the human
stories behind the science.

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From puzzling medical mysteries
to shocking real life crimes,

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we'll bring you stories that'll
leave you questioning everything

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you thought you knew while.
We're both experiencing these

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nurses.
We want to make it clear we're

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not here to give medical advice.
This podcast is about

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storytelling, education and
exploration, not diagnosing or

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treating medical conditions.
This is medicine, mystery,

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mayhem, and sometimes murder.
Let's dive in.

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Hey, Crystal, how are you doing?
I'm.

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Doing pretty well.
How are you?

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I'm very well, thank you.
I'm getting excited for an

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adventure that starts my first
week of adventure and then goes

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into another week of adventure.
I noticed that when I'm getting

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ready to travel, sometimes I
can't sleep the night before

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because, you know, I'm always
worried I'm going to forget

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something or miss waking up or
all of that kind of thing.

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Do you experience that as well?
Sometimes there are times when I

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intentionally don't sleep so
that I'll sleep on the airplane

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or in the car or whatever.
I don't actually sleep in the

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car very well or on airplanes
very well.

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But you know, that's a nice way
to pass the time if it's a long

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distance.
So I kind of will do that if

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it's not so much long distance.
I mean, I stay up late every

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night.
So it's kind of hard for me to

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equate it to.
I also have a hard I have

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insomnia so I have a hard time
sleeping every night also.

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Right, right.
That's true.

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A lot of times it's not hugely
different for me, but it's

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funny, it's one of those things
that I'm like, well, my alarm's

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not going to work this time.
It works every other day in the

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whole world and I don't have a
particularly early flight

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tomorrow, but still, it's just
like, all right.

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And then I'm going on the first
leg of my journey.

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I'm going to Arizona, so it's
not like like I'm going

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somewhere I can't get anything I
need, but I still pack stuff

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because, you know, yeah, don't
want to buy it again if I've

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already got it, but yeah, are.
You driving or are you flying?

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I'm flying, I'm flying.
It's only a 3 1/2 hour flight.

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It's got these notices, you can
get food.

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And I said I think I can manage
a 3 1/2 hour flight without any

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of the food that they offer
they.

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Offer for $15.00 for a peanut
butter sandwich.

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Exactly exactly.
It's really good stuff but

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what's hilarious is they're
ready for me to order my food.

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However, I noticed when I
checked in I don't have a seat

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assignment yet so I don't know
where they they would send it

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even if I had it.
And I haven't been on a flight

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without a seat assignment for a
long time.

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Not sure what that's about.
You know that Southwest is now

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doing seat assignments, right?
And that's good.

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Yeah, I feel the same way.
There's so many people who are

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up in arms about it because
they're like, that's why I fly

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Southwest.
And I'm like, that's exactly why

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I don't fly South.
Yeah.

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I want to know where I'm
sitting, especially because I'm

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a bigger person and I need to be
in the aisle.

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Yeah, well, and I was thinking
about it.

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I'm like, you know, and because
I'm, I'm not very big figure, I

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can be in a middle seat for
three hours.

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I don't care.
But of course, those are the

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moments that I immediately have
to go to the bathroom 500 times.

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But that's just me and my
bladder.

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That actually happened to me
when Odyssey and I were flying

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to Washington, DC for my high
school reunion.

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She was in the middle, I was in
the aisle and she kept getting

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up like every 45 minutes to go
pee and I and I couldn't climb

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over me, so I'd have to get up
out of the aisle.

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I was still in horrible pain
with my hip.

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You know, it was awful.
I was like that in the aisle.

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You rotten child.
That's right.

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My need to go to the bathroom is
directly related to how

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difficult it is.
The harder it is, the more I

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have to go.
No questions anyway.

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Well, with that note, what we're
talking about today is called

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Third Man syndrome, or third.
Oh, I totally just forgot

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factor.
Third factor is the other way

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it's listed and I don't really
know why.

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Have you ever heard of the Third
Man Syndrome?

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Nope, not at all.
Well, we're here today to figure

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it out so I can mention my
resources.

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I used something that was in the
desert News, which is a Utah,

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Utah based paper.
Also IFL Science, which I looked

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up and they just look at sort of
like what we do.

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They like to look at the things
that we maybe don't know a lot

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about.
Then also Wikipedia for

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definition of course, and NPR
had an article about the third

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fat man syndrome or factor.
The final thing I used was

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called the Post which I want to
listen to news just because

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that's.
You know, owned by the Mormon

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Church.
Exactly.

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I thought it was interesting
too.

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OK, so the third man syndrome
and one of the articles I read

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this was in the ghost post.
It said, are you really alone in

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your scariest moments?
One of the things I was going to

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ask is have you ever been in a
situation where you're

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stressful?
Well, you're stressed, I mean,

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and I've been.
In a lot of situations where.

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I'm stressed.
You're the stressful.

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I yeah, I get that.
But have you ever been in a

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situation where you felt
stressed, even uncomfortable,

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for whatever reason, and then
you feel like someone with you

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even when you're alone?
Have you ever felt that?

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Only in a frightening way.
Yeah, good.

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Well, save that story.
I want to hear more about it.

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OK.
I've had times where I felt like

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someone was with me, but not
necessarily in a frightening

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way.
And it was more of a a feeling

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that someone was there and just
sometimes feeling just not

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alone.
So the phenomenon that this is

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called is the third man factor
or the third man syndrome.

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It's happened to a lot of people
where they've described later

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that they felt like someone was
there with them.

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It's everything from explorers
to soldiers and just the regular

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person walking upon the street.
The way the third man syndrome

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is described is that it's
something that's experienced in

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a survival situation, so
something that's super stressful

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or feeling really traumatic that
this presence, the third man, is

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felt and they intervene at
critical moments.

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They offer encouragement,
guidance and support, and that

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can look a lot of different
ways.

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Most people experience it.
Report feeling the presence we

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talked about even though they
knew they were alone and

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sometimes it's been with groups
so they felt a presence that was

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not part of the group.
I've got some really fun

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examples for later, but I know
I've experienced this before.

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I was listening recently to a
podcast and they were talking

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about the third man syndrome
where the little girl was in a

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situation that she describes and
we'll talk a little a little bit

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more about that later, but she
describes an experience where

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someone takes her to safety.
Like I say, it's it's

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experienced and mostly as an
individual because I think a lot

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of times if if it's a group,
they can push it off to maybe

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having been someone in the group
or someone saying something.

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But the people who describe it
the most commonly are

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individuals.
One of the things that they know

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noted in the research I did is
that the Third Man syndrome was

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titled from ATS Eliot poem
called The Wasteland.

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It references 1/3 Who walks
always beside you.

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So that was considered the third
man 1.

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Of the TS Eliot if he meant man
or woman, nobody.

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Asked, it was long enough ago,
nobody asked.

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One of the most common examples
of this third man syndrome.

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And it's interesting to me that
they call it a syndrome, but I

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think more they're starting to
call it more.

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Well, they vacillate between
syndrome and factor.

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I never understood.
They never said why they say

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factor though.
I don't I didn't ever see

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something that said why it was
called either syndrome or

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factor.
But the most common example is

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Ernest Shackleton, and he had a
team in 1916, was exploring the

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Antarctica and they had been in
a boat.

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And they're both the endurance
got trapped on the ice.

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They just got stuck.
They probably planned poorly,

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maybe had early storms,
whatever.

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They had a route to safety, but
it was not at all easy.

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So he and his two companions,
Tom Crane and Frank Worsley, So

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they started going across the
mountain ranges and glaciers to

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a whaling station for more than
a day.

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They trekked across the island
of South Georgia.

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They actually survived that.
So that was good.

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And they actually credit their
survival with a fourth traveler,

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a presence they all felt.
Every single one of them

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provided hope and direction, but
was never really there, they

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said.
Here is a quote that Shackleton

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said.
I know that during that long and

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racking March of 36 hours over
the unnamed mountains and

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glaciers of South Georgia, it
seemed to me often that we were

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4, not 3.
He said.

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That they all mentioned it over
and over again.

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Wow.
One of the ways that for them

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that happened is that this third
person gave extra support,

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didn't really tell them to do
anything, but just they just

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felt like they were supported by
this person being there.

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And there's other types of
reports that are like that.

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And the one I was talking about,
the little girl, she had been

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walking, it was back in the 70s
where children were far less

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monitored than they are now.
And she was walking somewhere, I

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don't recall where, but it was,
she had to go down this alley.

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And when she got there, she felt
this really dark presence.

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She didn't know what she should
do.

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She decided to hide to see what
happened, kind of, I think she

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was 10.
She's like I said, she just

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didn't know what to do.
And as she was hiding, she got

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this voice in her head that said
run.

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She she didn't know.
I know she didn't know where

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that came from, but she felt it
was right.

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And so she ran.
And then all of a sudden it said

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stop and hide.
And so she stopped and she hid

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because she was running out of
the space and there were some

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plants around and since she was
small, she was hiding behind

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them.
Then all of a sudden she heard

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the steps of this person and
then the steps are to recede and

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she got the sound again, run.
And then she got all the way

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home with run, hide, run, hide.
And she got home.

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And she felt like that was why
she survived because she got

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that assistants, if you will,
face listeners.

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You can't see Crystal's face,
but she would have really liked

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this experience it sounds like.
Yeah, I'm like, Nope, nothing in

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my mind I'm saying I will just
avoid alleyways I'm blocking.

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How about that?
There you go.

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Never leave the house.
That's just all there is to it.

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There are so many people that I
know have just said, Oh my gosh,

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I felt like I should do this or
I felt like I should do that, or

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I've heard a voice that said
something and I don't know very

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many people that haven't
experienced something along that

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line.
There's a writer, his name is

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John Geiger.
He wrote the book The Third Man

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Factor Surviving the Impossible.
He claims that there's some

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several scientific explanations
for the syndrome.

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Now, I don't know how many other
people claim this, but what he

227
00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:46,800
says is that there's probably a
biochemical reaction that is

228
00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:49,840
actually a misfiring of the
brain, and that's a possibility.

229
00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:53,280
That they did a third man
factor, by the way, that's

230
00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:53,800
where.
Oh, John.

231
00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:55,400
Geiger did, yeah.
I don't know why he did it.

232
00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:57,400
I just looked that up.
Obviously I already told you, I

233
00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:00,000
don't know anything about this,
but because you had said that I

234
00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:02,080
was looking it up while you were
talking.

235
00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:04,600
Yeah.
So he he decided it was it was

236
00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:08,400
just the third man before that.
And then he in his book, the

237
00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:10,480
third manufacturer, that was
with the third manufacturer,

238
00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:11,600
some little trivia there for
you.

239
00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:13,560
There you go.
Thank you very much.

240
00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:18,160
Well, and it's funny because it
still comes up like I said, as a

241
00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:19,840
third man syndrome.
So I don't know where the

242
00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:23,280
syndrome part came either, but I
guess they just decided.

243
00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:29,400
And this information that the
writer had put together is also

244
00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:32,320
part of this information comes
from the NPR article I I've

245
00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:34,120
read.
Geiger actually believes a

246
00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:37,160
spiritual explanation makes more
sense than a neurological

247
00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:40,440
misfiring.
He said that many skeptics and

248
00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:44,840
non believers also had an
experience like this, but they

249
00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:46,760
attribute it to other
explanations.

250
00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:50,880
They want to people that are non
believers want it to be

251
00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:53,920
something that is a medical
thing because then it can be

252
00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:56,200
explained.
And we'll talk a little bit more

253
00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:58,440
about this later.
But basically the bottom line is

254
00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:00,960
a spoiler alert is that nobody
really knows.

255
00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:04,280
We talked about so many things
that nobody really knows if it's

256
00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:07,560
true because the problem is in
order to find out you have to

257
00:13:07,560 --> 00:13:10,560
have a controlled study, right,
right, right.

258
00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:15,560
So this would be a very
difficult topic to do a a study

259
00:13:15,560 --> 00:13:19,920
on because First off, it
probably isn't very ethical to

260
00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:23,120
put people in situations that
they could be in danger for and

261
00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:24,640
wait and see if they have a
response.

262
00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:29,440
Well, that's right.
We will set up 7 serial killers

263
00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:31,920
that will be along this course
way and see what happens.

264
00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:35,320
So I don't know very many
people.

265
00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:37,920
Well, I don't know, maybe people
would sign up, but it's still.

266
00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:38,880
Odyssey.
Probably would.

267
00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:41,920
There's some people that really
like that kind of thing.

268
00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:44,120
No thank you.
Then I think I'd always be

269
00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:46,000
worried that something was
lurking around the corner.

270
00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:47,000
Is it real?
Is it not real?

271
00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:51,040
I don't think most people agree
that it's not a hallucination

272
00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:55,200
because most times people when
they have a hallucination feel

273
00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:59,240
like they're having some sort of
disorder and they're they're

274
00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:03,680
just, it's confusing.
It's it causes stress that way

275
00:14:03,680 --> 00:14:06,280
because if it's a hallucination,
it's really not.

276
00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:09,520
It doesn't give a specific plan.
It doesn't do anything really

277
00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:12,080
concrete.
Hallucinations mostly are just

278
00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:14,760
sort of weird things that
happen, or weird visions or

279
00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:16,920
whatever.
There's a guy on TikTok.

280
00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:18,960
Random thing.
There's a guy on TikTok who has

281
00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:23,360
a service dog that has been
trained to greet people given

282
00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:27,440
the command greet and his owner
has hallucinations just like

283
00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:30,400
that, the usually of people.
And so he can say greet and if

284
00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:32,240
the dog is silent, it's a
hallucination.

285
00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:33,720
If the dog is not silent, it's
real.

286
00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:36,040
That just gave me chills.
Whoa.

287
00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:40,720
Oh my gosh, it is cool and scary
at the same time, right?

288
00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:44,600
Because gosh, if I was having,
if I were prone to

289
00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:46,840
hallucinations, I think I would
want to know whether it was a

290
00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:48,000
real event or not.
Because I.

291
00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:50,000
Think I would too.
Gosh, that would be really

292
00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:52,280
unsettling at best, to me
anyway.

293
00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:56,720
Wow, For sure.
OK, Well, they do believe that

294
00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:59,600
these are not generally
hallucinations, like I said,

295
00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:02,640
because they're usually helpful.
They're usually orderly, you

296
00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:05,800
know, do this, do that.
Do they see something or is it

297
00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:09,600
always unseen?
Most people do not report seeing

298
00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:11,680
anything.
They Most people report hearing

299
00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:15,160
something with a.
It's usually a voice that gives

300
00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:18,000
this guidance.
Sometimes they feel that

301
00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:21,080
something's there, but most
people, when I read some of the

302
00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:23,520
the stories, most people do not
see anything.

303
00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:26,600
They just felt something.
That makes it even weirder to me

304
00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:30,200
that the Deseret News did an
article because I would expect

305
00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:33,080
them to just say it's not third
man syndrome, it's the Holy

306
00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:34,640
Spirit, right?
Right.

307
00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:36,720
Like interest.
It's I'm fascinated.

308
00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:39,320
Yeah, me too.
I really agree.

309
00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:43,800
Like I said, most people feel
like it might be a coping

310
00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:45,960
mechanism that's triggered by
stress.

311
00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:49,040
So somehow our body goes into
high alert.

312
00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:52,360
Maybe others believe it's a
guardian Angel or maybe even

313
00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:54,960
your higher self, right?
Maybe you're helping yourself.

314
00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:56,520
I don't know.
I mean, obviously we don't.

315
00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:59,600
Know, but that'd be cool.
Yeah.

316
00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:03,120
Well, and that's where I, I feel
like that's probably the most

317
00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:08,400
likely for most people is that
they, I, I know that when we're

318
00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:12,160
in a situation or even all of
our time, we're noticing details

319
00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:14,480
around us, we're seeing what's
going on, we're getting input

320
00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:17,600
all the time.
Our brain like if we wake up in

321
00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:20,240
the night to a sound, we almost
immediately know if it's a

322
00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:24,520
normal sound or not normal sound
and our body will bond.

323
00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:27,960
And so part of me wonders if
some of this is based on just

324
00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:32,040
life experience that I've
realized that this situation can

325
00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:35,880
cause this result.
So I found if I do this, that

326
00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:38,280
can help.
And so maybe it's a guidance

327
00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:41,160
from the subconscious or you say
the like we say the higher,

328
00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:44,640
higher being, which is our our
greatest self.

329
00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:48,760
So but anyway, it's still it's
quite a mystery.

330
00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:52,920
And one of the things that
Geiger said, it's just an

331
00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:56,920
astonishing capacity, whatever
it is, it's an astonishing

332
00:16:56,920 --> 00:16:59,160
capacity that we can actually do
these things.

333
00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:04,800
And we can some people have
actually have actually been

334
00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:09,359
working on the skill, if you
will, of gathering this

335
00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:13,200
information or calling on their
Angel guide spirits, whatever it

336
00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:16,280
is, they can call in these
resources when they need it in

337
00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:20,079
their lives.
Again, whatever it is, they can

338
00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:23,680
ask for it, which I believe is
true with other gifts.

339
00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:25,839
So why wouldn't it be true with
this gift?

340
00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:29,760
Sure, yeah, maybe it's maybe
it's clairvoyance, I don't know.

341
00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:33,760
Or Claire audience since most
people are hearing hearing it.

342
00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:36,480
Geiger had spent five years
gathering stories from

343
00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:39,880
individuals that had experienced
the third man syndrome.

344
00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:42,400
He talks about it in his book.
Like I said, the third man

345
00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:45,200
factor and.
He also come and came up with

346
00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:47,800
third man syndrome.
He just he's the one that uses

347
00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:50,240
it interchangeably.
Well, that's useful.

348
00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:54,240
Thanks a lot, Geiger.
Well, maybe that's why I

349
00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:55,560
couldn't find more about who
did.

350
00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:59,320
Probably it was it was he.
He is the one most commonly

351
00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:02,440
referred to when people talk
about this because he did study

352
00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:05,920
it for five years.
One of the first things that he

353
00:18:06,120 --> 00:18:11,640
had given an account of was a
man, Ron de Francisco.

354
00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:13,760
Pardon me, Ron, if I pronounce
it incorrectly.

355
00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:18,480
He was one of the people in the
September 11th, 2001 Trade Trade

356
00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:21,240
Center.
He was on the 84th floor in the

357
00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:22,880
South Tower.
Bad news.

358
00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:26,000
I'm just going to read it what
it says because I think that's

359
00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:27,960
easier than me trying to
paraphrase incorrectly.

360
00:18:28,360 --> 00:18:31,200
But he said when the second
plane crashed into the building

361
00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:34,440
that he made several attempts to
escape but failed to find a safe

362
00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:37,840
exit.
At the brink of giving up, Ron

363
00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:41,800
heard an unfamiliar voice.
He said, somebody told me to get

364
00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:43,960
up.
Somebody said called to me.

365
00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:47,480
The voice, which was male, but
it didn't belong to one of the

366
00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:49,960
people in the stairwell, and it
was insistent.

367
00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:53,560
It's a get up.
It addressed Ron by name and

368
00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:56,440
gave him encouragement.
It was, hey, you can do this.

369
00:18:57,000 --> 00:18:58,440
But it was more than a voice, He
said.

370
00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:01,080
There was also a vivid sense of
a physical presence.

371
00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:04,200
That's the thing that gives me
shivers, that there was a

372
00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:07,720
physical presence, but it was a
sense of a physical presence.

373
00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:09,640
There wasn't.
He didn't actually see the

374
00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:13,480
presence, but he felt that and
he said that he had a sensation

375
00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:16,760
that somebody lifted him up and
felt like he was being guided.

376
00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:19,600
He said I was led to the stairs.
I don't think something grabbed

377
00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:21,520
my hand, but I was definitely
LED.

378
00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:26,640
With help from what Ron
described as an Angel, he made

379
00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:29,640
it out of the South Tower alive.
He was only one of four people

380
00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:31,480
to escape from above the 81st
floor.

381
00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:38,400
Wow.
And what makes me consider is if

382
00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:42,120
anyone else, if he was one of
only four people that survived

383
00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:45,320
and he had said he was in the
stairwell, I wonder if he said

384
00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:47,560
anything like come with me or
something like that.

385
00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:50,520
I'm not sure.
So he but he felt like he was

386
00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:53,240
LED out of that experience.
Wow.

387
00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:55,680
Yeah, I found that pretty
intense.

388
00:19:56,320 --> 00:19:59,920
And there's a there's another
story that was in here and it

389
00:19:59,920 --> 00:20:03,840
was talking about a man named
James who was climbing the

390
00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:06,840
Canadian Rockies in Alberta,
Canada.

391
00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:12,120
He and a man, this is guy's name
is James Spagney.

392
00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:16,680
And Richard Whitmere, I should
not even try and say people's

393
00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:17,760
names.
I'm pretty bad at it.

394
00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:19,880
They were overcome by an
avalanche.

395
00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:22,720
They were carried nearly 2000
feet.

396
00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:27,480
That's a very long way to go in
an avalanche, just right in the

397
00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:29,720
way.
I can't imagine that was

398
00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:32,680
comfortable in any way, because
when I've seen avalanches, there

399
00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:35,480
was not just snow.
There's snow, rocks, everything

400
00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:38,200
else.
Debris or as Paul and I like to

401
00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:43,720
joke, Deborah.
That's what I say too, yes.

402
00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:45,080
Is there any Deborah's around
here?

403
00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:46,840
Whether they had Deborah's or
not.

404
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:51,440
And when James regained
consciousness, he knew he was

405
00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:54,320
severely injured.
He also discovered that his his

406
00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:58,360
partner Richard was dead.
And now I don't know if that

407
00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:02,000
means that they were carried
together, if they were right

408
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:04,280
next to each other, which it
sounds like 'cause I can't

409
00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:05,720
imagine if he was severely
injured.

410
00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:07,200
He went very far to find his
friend.

411
00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:10,080
It was noted that his back was
broken in two places.

412
00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:13,360
He had a fractured arm, cracked
ribs, severed nerves, torn

413
00:21:13,360 --> 00:21:16,480
ligaments, as a knee, broken
teeth and internal bleeding.

414
00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:21,800
So he just laid down to die,
'cause I mean, Can you imagine?

415
00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:24,160
But then he said this was his
quote.

416
00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:27,600
He then felt a sudden, strange
sensation of invisible being

417
00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:30,240
very close at hand.
It was something I couldn't see,

418
00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:33,160
but it was a physical presence.
The presence communicated

419
00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:34,680
mentally and its message was
clear.

420
00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:36,960
You can't give up, you have to
try.

421
00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:45,240
And so the presence urged him to
get up and dispense practical

422
00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:47,480
advice.
It told him, for example, to

423
00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:50,440
follow the blood dripping from
the tip of his nose as if it was

424
00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:53,800
an arrow pointing the way.
Because it was going down.

425
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:56,680
It was going down as he walked.
That's.

426
00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:00,040
So cool.
I know as he walked, he kept

427
00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,280
breaking through the Crest of
the deep snow and was almost

428
00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:04,640
unable to pull his feet back up
because of his injuries.

429
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:08,160
Part of the time he crawled, the
presence, which stood behind his

430
00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:11,080
right shoulder, implored him to
continue even when the struggle

431
00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:14,760
to survive seemed untenable.
When he finally made it to base

432
00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:16,480
camp, there were people there to
aid him.

433
00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:18,880
When the presence left, he was
overcome with loneliness.

434
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:22,320
He understood it was more than
luck that led to his miraculous

435
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:24,600
survival.
Interesting.

436
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:27,040
Yeah.
I mean, one might argue that

437
00:22:27,120 --> 00:22:29,800
that was Richard before he, you
know, passed through the veil,

438
00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:31,160
if you will.
Sure.

439
00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:34,320
Gone, you know.
We don't know how long souls or

440
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:38,560
spirits hang around just
listening to that story.

441
00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:40,200
I don't know.
You said the other one gave you

442
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:41,640
chills.
Does that give you chills too?

443
00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:43,560
Or is that was that one
different for you somehow?

444
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:47,240
It was milder for some reason.
I couldn't tell you why, but

445
00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:51,560
yeah, it was just, I mean, it's
still, I just, I don't know.

446
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:53,560
I don't, I don't know that I'm a
survivor.

447
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:56,440
I.
Don't know that I would.

448
00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:58,360
I would be like willing to do
that.

449
00:22:58,360 --> 00:23:02,000
Every time I hear people,
particularly hear of people,

450
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:06,600
despite in painful, painful
injuries continuing to move on.

451
00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:11,240
I think of like when I broke my
foot or my ankle, as you know, a

452
00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:16,240
massive fracture tried malleoler
with my tibia and my fibia and

453
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:20,960
blah blah blah and basically
every bone in my ankle.

454
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:24,000
They sent me home from the
hospital just in a boot.

455
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:28,280
Not no, not even a boot in a air
cast airsoft, airsoft.

456
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,680
Well, it wasn't even airsoft.
It was just Oh my gosh, it's the

457
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:38,200
kind that like plaster of Paris
and not and it was not enclosed.

458
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:40,000
So my.
So I could partially.

459
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:42,360
Residual, yeah, like split,
that's what I'm trying.

460
00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:45,000
To say.
And so I was able to use a

461
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:46,760
wheelchair to get to my car,
right?

462
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:49,320
And of course I wasn't driving
when I got home.

463
00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:54,400
I have no doors near anything in
my house from the from outside.

464
00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:57,040
And so.
And and both of my entrances

465
00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:59,480
have stairs.
Have three stairs each, or 4.

466
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:00,880
Of course, anyway.
Yeah.

467
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:10,000
So I had to somehow get from my
car to the house and I couldn't

468
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:15,440
even like I couldn't even like
crutch the splint the bottom of

469
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:18,720
the split to the ground without
it being excruciating.

470
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:22,520
I remember we, they, the people
that helped me, they went and

471
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:28,600
got a office chair and tried to
wheel me up.

472
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:31,040
Of course, it was a shitty
office chair, so it was really

473
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:33,240
hard to push.
And I was, I was much heavier

474
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,360
than I am now.
And I cried and I cried and I

475
00:24:36,360 --> 00:24:39,160
just wanted to live in that
office chair for the rest of my

476
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:41,120
life.
Yeah, outside on the street

477
00:24:41,120 --> 00:24:42,440
corner.
Outside on the street corner.

478
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:44,800
Yeah, exactly.
So what I think about that's,

479
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:47,120
you know, that's but I think
about these people and they're

480
00:24:47,120 --> 00:24:51,120
like, they're in the mountains
and they're, you know, stranded

481
00:24:51,120 --> 00:24:54,960
and they're severely far more
injured than I was.

482
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,280
I'm in awe.
I'm truly in awe.

483
00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:01,120
I just.
Jeremy Renner always comes to

484
00:25:01,120 --> 00:25:02,000
mind.
This.

485
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:05,640
He's not about third Man
syndrome necessarily.

486
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:06,760
Maybe his.
I don't know.

487
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:09,600
I don't know the story other
than he was run over by a snow

488
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,160
plow.
But yeah, he recovered so

489
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:14,320
quickly.
And I'm sure it's because he has

490
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:16,280
a passion for what he does as an
actor.

491
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:20,840
And it's.
Yeah, I just.

492
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:25,560
I have not shown myself to be
that kind of person.

493
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:30,840
Well, and it definitely is a
special kind of person that will

494
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:34,440
work through that to survive
because I think in situations

495
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:37,400
like that, there is a moment a
person has to decide, am I going

496
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,440
to just sit here and die or am I
going to do every single

497
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:43,840
solitary thing that I can?
Yeah, I do think it breaks down

498
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,960
to the person, their beliefs,
their strengths, things like

499
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:49,640
that, and maybe what they have
to live for.

500
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:52,720
I don't know.
I mean, would I try harder if I

501
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:54,080
had a newborn baby to get home
too?

502
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:55,320
Probably.
Probably.

503
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:57,400
Yeah.
Who knows?

504
00:25:57,480 --> 00:25:59,640
Whatever the motivation is or
whatever the basic.

505
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:02,640
Person, I would prefer not to
ever be put in that position.

506
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:04,520
Thank you very much.
Please knock on wood.

507
00:26:05,120 --> 00:26:06,800
I was planning on starting the
study with you.

508
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:13,080
Excellent plan.
Well, again, so, so again, they

509
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,520
really don't know scientifically
what happens.

510
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:19,520
But one of the things that I
also saw in in the research that

511
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:24,360
I did is that theory of the
stress and induced

512
00:26:24,360 --> 00:26:27,080
hallucination.
But again, using that word,

513
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:31,640
hallucination probably is what
some people might get stuck on

514
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:35,360
because is a hallucination a
vision?

515
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:39,400
Is a hallucination just
something that is unpleasant or

516
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:41,960
uncontrolled or something?
Or just neurons?

517
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:46,360
But that's what that's what
yeah, that's what is suggested.

518
00:26:46,360 --> 00:26:50,520
That is when we're in danger,
our adrenaline starts pumping

519
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:52,960
right?
I mean we get the short breath

520
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:58,440
we we get racing heart, things
like that and in those moments,

521
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:02,600
one of the reasons our our
breath gets short and our hearts

522
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:06,640
start to pump is to a lot of
people think that that makes the

523
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:09,600
the oxygen go up to the brain so
the brain will start really

524
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:11,280
working harder.
One of the things it.

525
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:13,640
Says is what I imagine.
It also pumps the adrenaline

526
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:15,640
faster, right?
Gets the system faster.

527
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:18,080
Exactly.
And so our brains can get

528
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:21,680
creative.
And extreme stress can trigger

529
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:25,280
malfunctions too, though in the
visual and auditory cortex.

530
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:30,640
Is that a fun, a dysfunction, or
is it a useful tool?

531
00:27:31,120 --> 00:27:32,920
Right.
Well, you don't know.

532
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:37,040
But when this does happen, when
this malfunction happens, there

533
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:39,480
can be vivid perceptions of
things that aren't there.

534
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:43,400
Hence hallucination.
That's where it gets a little

535
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,280
sketchy.
And one of the things mentioning

536
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:48,800
to that the things that aren't
there is like like they were

537
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:53,160
talking about a reassuring voice
when you're up on a mountain pop

538
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:58,440
or phantom figures and our our
minds can just be pretend,

539
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:01,200
potentially conjuring up a
comforting companion.

540
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:03,000
Yeah.
I mean, if you think about this,

541
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:05,240
I didn't mean to interrupt you.
Do you want to finish?

542
00:28:05,360 --> 00:28:08,800
No worries, go ahead.
If you flip it, this, I this is

543
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:10,120
fascinating.
I just thought of this.

544
00:28:10,120 --> 00:28:15,040
But if you flip it and you're
talking about, say, psychopaths

545
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:17,720
who have hallucinations of
people who tell them to kill

546
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:19,800
people or hurt people or
whatever, right?

547
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:23,680
Is it related?
It's about the dark side of the

548
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:28,880
third man, and so parody.
Oh dear.

549
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:31,520
Syndrome.
Syndrome or factor?

550
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:33,320
Factor.
Yeah, that's a really good

551
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:34,720
question.
Is it?

552
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:38,800
It makes me wonder too when
people are are in those

553
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,720
psychotic moments.
I bet you they have a adrenaline

554
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:43,440
pumping.
I'll bet they do too.

555
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:46,040
Yeah, I'll bet you're right.
And because also when you think

556
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:48,200
about that or a panic attack or
something along that line,

557
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,160
nobody stands there calmly and
peacefully.

558
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,560
One of the things about
something like the serial killer

559
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:56,280
or something, something like
that, that's where they get

560
00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:58,560
their high is thinking about all
that stuff.

561
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,640
So maybe that is when their
adrenaline pumps and then they

562
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:05,200
see those hallucinations and
that's just what moves things

563
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:06,160
along.
I don't know.

564
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:09,960
That's a good question.
It's I don't know.

565
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:14,320
It's how my brain works.
Yep.

566
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,440
I was doing something in
Minecraft yesterday with my son.

567
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:20,120
I was building a mob farm and
people who know Minecraft will

568
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:22,040
know what that means.
Basically, I was building a

569
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:27,160
monster capture.
He was like, take this side that

570
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:29,160
I built for you and replicate it
on the other side.

571
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:32,040
And I looked at it and it was
really difficult for me to even

572
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:34,800
look at.
But so I started doing it and he

573
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:37,680
goes, well, that's a really
curious way to start that.

574
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:40,560
And I'm like, I started and he's
like, well, why didn't you do

575
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:42,880
this and this and this and this?
And I'm like, Oh, my brain

576
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:44,800
doesn't work that way.
Yeah, that's right.

577
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:47,240
I like how he said.
That's a curious way to start it

578
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:50,320
though.
But again, I mean you, we do all

579
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:52,240
have different ways that we
think about something and look

580
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:54,920
at something.
It would be fascinating to see

581
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:56,720
if we could figure out if it was
the other side.

582
00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:00,680
I think also they do have a
little trouble with interviewing

583
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:04,320
serial killers too, because
they're not really control group

584
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:08,560
and and unfortunately they don't
always tell the truth.

585
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:12,240
So they may have a hard time
describing that.

586
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:16,880
But maybe if it was someone who
did have psychotic breaks that.

587
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:20,200
Wasn't necessarily killed.
When they could talk to them

588
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:24,000
about it, we'll, we'll submit
that suggestion to the the board

589
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:28,920
of Third Man Syndrome.
I don't don't know where that

590
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:31,360
is.
But anyway, back to what we

591
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:32,800
were.
Well, this is what we're talking

592
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:34,600
about, but more of it.
One of the other defense

593
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:37,800
mechanisms that our brains have
is disassociation, 'cause we

594
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:40,440
hear a lot of people, they're in
a really bad situation, so they

595
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:44,160
take themselves off to a sunny
island somewhere just to take

596
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:46,920
their as much of their brain
away as they can do.

597
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:49,560
Interestingly, that's one way of
dissociating.

598
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:54,520
Odyssey dissociates by sucking
it all in and becoming a shell

599
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:58,560
of a person chooses to stop
existing in time.

600
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,960
Yeah.
Well, and that is something that

601
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:06,080
is mentioned here is that when
we're in overwhelming stress, we

602
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:09,000
can disconnect from reality.
Like like we were talking about

603
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,520
sometimes creating an internal
world where we get a reassuring

604
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:15,880
guide or supportive presence.
Yeah, she does.

605
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:18,520
Maybe she she.
Doesn't feel that she sits in a.

606
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:23,040
Four walled dark room that's
just about as big as her sitting

607
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:25,880
in the fetal fetal position.
Oh wow.

608
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:30,000
Well, and does that comfort her?
No, doesn't at all.

609
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:32,600
Where she goes, where she goes.
She has to.

610
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:36,560
Fortunately she's learned to
identify it and so she can stop

611
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:38,840
it.
She can sometimes go like 3 days

612
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:42,760
where she's headed that way
before she's like, oh you know.

613
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:47,400
But yeah, really scary, I think.
Wow, yeah, that would feel

614
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:50,320
really uncomfortable for me in
this case when they talk about

615
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:52,800
dissociation and people are
reporting it because all of this

616
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:55,560
is done by self report, like I
said, because there's not

617
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:57,800
possible studies to do at the
time.

618
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:01,600
They noticed that this
disassociation for them is

619
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:05,160
giving them this reassuring
voice and things like that.

620
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:08,800
Like it's offering a safe space,
but within their own mind to get

621
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:11,760
through whatever it is.
There must be some level of

622
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,080
safety for her being blocked
like that.

623
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:16,600
I'm sure there is.
I just thought of something.

624
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:21,080
OK, this is something else.
I don't know if this is true for

625
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:25,600
everybody, but when I often I
won't say that all the time, but

626
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:30,240
often when I'm talking to
myself, I refer, I refer to

627
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:34,480
myself as we we really need to
do this.

628
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:37,280
We really this we what are we
going to do?

629
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:38,560
And it's like, there's nobody
else.

630
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:41,000
It's just me.
And that makes me wonder if

631
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:44,840
that's associated right?
Because like I might say, oh,

632
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:47,880
Crystal, what are you doing that
that has nothing to do with, you

633
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:50,480
know, we or whatever.
But yeah, it's like it's not all

634
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:53,520
the time.
Sometimes I do say like I I

635
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:56,120
think it's kind of processing
this for some reason right now.

636
00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:58,760
But I think it's kind of like
when I say I need to do

637
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:02,080
something at that political,
practical, logical, and then

638
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:05,360
it's more of like the
philosophical type things where

639
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:09,520
it becomes a conversation with
the what I tend to call the

640
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:12,880
royal we, right there is the
royal we, but I'm not royal.

641
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:18,200
And I wonder if, yeah, I just
wonder if that's related because

642
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:20,520
I've always thought that was
weird.

643
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:24,240
Like I'll actually stop myself
sometimes and be like, there's

644
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:25,640
no we here.
It's just you homie.

645
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:27,680
Yeah, that's right.
That's right.

646
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:31,520
Well, and it could be, it could
be when when I hear you say

647
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:35,000
that, what I think of is that's
the thing that sort of takes

648
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:37,960
some of your personal
responsibility out of it because

649
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:40,880
you've got you yourself and I or
whatever it is.

650
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:43,360
And so, well, one of you is
going to do it.

651
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:48,000
It may not be me of the one of
us, but when I say when I say I,

652
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:51,200
that to me says, OK, I have the
responsibility for it.

653
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:53,440
I'm going to carry on.
I wonder if that's what it means

654
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:56,840
for you is if you're sort of
stepping aside from it being a

655
00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:59,720
personal thing and just going,
well, we'll think about that

656
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:01,720
later or?
I'll take the luncheon to that

657
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:05,320
because now I'm very curious.
I do catch myself doing it, so I

658
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:07,520
think I'll still be able to
catch myself doing it.

659
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:10,600
But now I'll be like, wait.
Which is the weirdest.

660
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:15,600
I'm very, very interested.
We need a recording going on in

661
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:18,560
your brain, all of that.
That would be scary.

662
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:22,239
I mean, fascinating.
Wouldn't it be it for all of us

663
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:23,600
if people could really hear our
thoughts?

664
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:26,360
No, thank you very much.
There's some thefts I really

665
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:30,159
would not like to take
accountability for, but in the

666
00:34:30,159 --> 00:34:33,679
mean time those arguments are
there that maybe this is just

667
00:34:33,679 --> 00:34:35,800
coming from our minds
disassociation or

668
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:39,480
hallucinations.
But what if it isn't a figment

669
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:43,159
of our imagination?
What if our bodies are sending

670
00:34:43,159 --> 00:34:45,320
us messages?
Is our body sending us a

671
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:48,159
message?
Is our Spidey sense air quotes

672
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:53,080
really magnified at that moment?
Because there's times that we

673
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:55,639
get messages.
One of the messages when we put

674
00:34:55,639 --> 00:34:57,240
our fingers on something hot or
must.

675
00:34:57,240 --> 00:35:02,120
Our body says don't do that,
don't do that.

676
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:06,080
So they let us know when we're
hungry, tired or scared and

677
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:09,240
multitude of other things.
I mean, that lets us know if we

678
00:35:09,240 --> 00:35:11,840
need to go to the bathroom.
All of the things that happen

679
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:15,760
all the time, but we may or may
not really be paying attention

680
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:17,800
to some of them.
Some of them, our body has to

681
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:20,760
say, OK, no, really, you get to
go to the bathroom or you get to

682
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:23,960
eat something or rest or
whatever it is.

683
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:28,400
But in highly stressful
situations, these messages may

684
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:30,800
get, they said, might get mixed
up.

685
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:35,040
They might be amplified, making
us feel like someone's touching

686
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:37,360
us or talking to us even when
they're not.

687
00:35:37,720 --> 00:35:40,640
And then I think of we're both
Reiki masters and teachers.

688
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:44,720
So I think of when I'm teaching
my students how to feel energy,

689
00:35:44,720 --> 00:35:47,040
I have them put their palms
together to see if they feel the

690
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:48,960
energy in their palms between
each other.

691
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:50,480
Is that?
Create a bowl.

692
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:52,560
So I have them.
Yeah, that's what you do.

693
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:54,240
Yeah.
Have them take their, take their

694
00:35:54,240 --> 00:35:57,960
hands, put their fingers.
So like your right hand fingers,

695
00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:01,360
4 fingers on the side of your
pinky and then your left hand.

696
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:02,640
I'm just describing it for the
listener.

697
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:06,160
I know you know.
Like like making a snowball.

698
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:09,560
Yeah, there you go.
Like being a snow and then on, I

699
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:12,080
guess channelling the energy
there and then to feel that

700
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:14,000
energy.
And a lot of times by myself

701
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:17,840
included, I can get to where my
snowball's as big as a softball.

702
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:20,040
Sure.
And it's one of my favorite

703
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:22,840
things actually, about teaching.
Yeah, it is mine too.

704
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:26,520
And so when we do that, what
we're doing is exemplifying what

705
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:30,040
energy can feel like, right?
I think most of us have been in

706
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:33,120
a room where maybe we're facing
away from the door or something

707
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:35,840
and somebody walks up.
We can feel them before we

708
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:38,280
really know that they're there
because maybe they came in

709
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:40,840
quietly or whatever.
So when I think of this sort of

710
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:45,000
thing, I think of that kind of
energy exchange where something

711
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:48,640
energetic is out there giving
some feedback and maybe it feels

712
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:51,440
like they're touching us or
talking to us at that moment.

713
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:55,040
Because it says even when
they're not doing those things,

714
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:57,160
I believe they do those things.
So I already have a

715
00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:00,000
predetermined idea that this can
happen.

716
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:03,960
So I might be biased, but when
we're in these dangerous

717
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:07,960
situations, some people have
reported that this felt like a

718
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:10,800
soothing hand or a soothing
touch.

719
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:14,520
They didn't feel like it was
scary or dangerous to them.

720
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:18,160
But the argument when if it's
coming from our own bodies, is

721
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:20,840
that but it's just our body
telling us to keep going.

722
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:24,520
You may remember recently in our
podcast, I believe it was about

723
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:28,840
death, but I can't remember.
I told the story of when my

724
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:32,360
brother died and I was sitting
at his grave after everything

725
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:36,200
has settled down and most of the
people had filed a way and just

726
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:38,000
sobbing because he was, he was
my best friend.

727
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:39,760
My two brothers were my best
friends growing up.

728
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:41,360
Just sobbing and sobbing and
sobbing.

729
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:44,440
And I probably cried for two
hours on and off.

730
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:47,560
Of course, I'm not crying.
But anyway, at some point during

731
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:52,480
that cry fest, I felt a hand on
my shoulder just kind of like a

732
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:54,840
comforting, like, hey, you know,
you've seen people do it.

733
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:56,560
Hey, I'm really sorry you're
hurting or whatever.

734
00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:01,160
And I remember Holly was there
with me, staying with me.

735
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:04,320
And I remember asking her who
did that, if it was her and who,

736
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:06,880
you know, who did that.
And she was like, nobody did

737
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:09,320
that, right?
And so I know.

738
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:13,800
So I get that.
And maybe I don't hear the third

739
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,800
man because of the oh, my gosh,
aphantasia.

740
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:17,880
Aphantasia.
Yeah.

741
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:21,280
You know, I mean that there,
there seems to be a lot of

742
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:23,360
things.
I mean, there, first of all,

743
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:25,760
there are a lot of things that
people, other people experience

744
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:27,360
that I don't that I had no idea
until now.

745
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:29,960
But it seems to be that the list
continues.

746
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:32,680
And I know that there are,
there's the scientific of it,

747
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:33,680
right?
I don't hear voices.

748
00:38:33,720 --> 00:38:36,360
I don't hear voices.
I don't get, I don't see

749
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:40,840
pictures, I don't hear voices.
You know, it's all a concept.

750
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:43,760
It's all just, you know.
And so that's like the

751
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:47,400
scientific part, right?
I don't see pictures in my head.

752
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:51,160
It's a blank space.
But when we get into the non

753
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:55,720
scientific, maybe it's true that
I have had third man

754
00:38:55,720 --> 00:39:01,040
experiences, but because they
haven't been auditory I've maybe

755
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:04,440
not been as aware of them.
Yeah, and it may have meant

756
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:07,080
something different to you by
the way you experienced it.

757
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:10,640
Yeah, and I agree.
And I, I feel like if all of us

758
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:13,600
really think about it, there's
probably a moment in time that

759
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:17,320
we have felt something like that
or just some sort of some people

760
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:20,960
will call it inner knowing, some
people call it Holy Ghost, Holy

761
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:24,120
Spirit, anything like that,
depending on what kind of belief

762
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:27,640
system people carry.
I feel like bottom line is it

763
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:29,880
doesn't really matter where it
comes from.

764
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:34,760
My mind would like to know more.
It's like many of the things

765
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:37,560
that we look into, people just
aren't sure.

766
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:41,000
And as I mentioned, we can't
really study it, we can't

767
00:39:41,240 --> 00:39:44,320
control it.
So all of this comes from

768
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:48,960
subjective and anecdotal
reports, which for people who

769
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:52,680
like to research things that is
certainly suboptimal with

770
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:56,720
answers that does not really fit
what I'd like it to say.

771
00:39:57,200 --> 00:39:59,680
But there were a couple of
stories that I wanted to read

772
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:03,440
that I thought were really cool
about people who have had these

773
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:05,600
experiences.
I will also read these just

774
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:09,720
because they're a little easier
to press them for me to shorten

775
00:40:09,720 --> 00:40:11,560
it.
So these come from BuzzFeed.

776
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:14,600
Whatever you think about the
different sources, I know that

777
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:16,440
some of these could be real.
Some.

778
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:19,320
Them could be not real, but they
talk about stories that I

779
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:21,400
thought were interesting and
probably somebody somewhere has

780
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:23,360
actually experienced these, even
if these people.

781
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:26,080
Anyway, there's my disclaimer.
I just like some of the stories

782
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:29,440
they put together.
And so this woman says when I

783
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:32,640
was 8 months pregnant with her
first child, I was driving alone

784
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:34,480
on the freeway on my way to
work.

785
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:36,040
It was raining and the roads
were slick.

786
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:39,360
I was behind a school bus in the
slow lane and my exit was about

787
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:41,680
half a mile ahead.
So I was planning on quickly

788
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:44,480
passing the bus when a voice
yelled loudly.

789
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:46,760
Stop.
It startled me, but I was

790
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:50,120
confused where the voice came
from, where a few seconds later,

791
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:52,520
about the time I would have been
alongside the bus if I hadn't

792
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:55,560
listened, the bus driver lost
control and the entire bus with

793
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:59,560
sideways on the freeway taking
up three lanes, I am certain

794
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:01,760
that my car would have either
been crushed or run off the

795
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:03,920
freeway.
I believe that voice saved our

796
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:05,840
lives.
I definitely thanked whoever was

797
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:09,200
watching out for us that day.
What do you think about that?

798
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:15,120
Wow, yeah, Yikes.
Yeah, I know there definitely

799
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:17,240
been times.
There's one that this reminded

800
00:41:17,240 --> 00:41:18,840
me of when I was doing the
research.

801
00:41:19,240 --> 00:41:22,720
I was driving on the freeway.
There was a little truck in

802
00:41:22,720 --> 00:41:25,520
front of me, like a pickup
truck, but a small one.

803
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:29,120
And they had stuff in the back
of their car, their bed, the bed

804
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:30,800
of their truck, including a
ladder.

805
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:33,000
And all of a sudden I just
thought I've got to back off

806
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:36,920
because I was, I don't follow
closely anyway because I'm a

807
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:38,760
nurse and an insurance nurse,
all of that.

808
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:40,200
So I've seen way too many
things.

809
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:44,040
So I give way more space than
necessary in most cases.

810
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:48,160
In this case, I so I was in the
regular distance, but I got the

811
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:51,360
feeling I just had to back off.
So I slowed.

812
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:53,880
I stayed in the lane for a
minute and then I decided to

813
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:56,600
change lanes.
Just as soon as I changed lanes

814
00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:59,040
and there was a big gap between
me and the car behind me because

815
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:02,960
I had slowed down, one of the
ladders in their truck came out

816
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:05,880
and it was, it came rolling out
too.

817
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:07,880
It was top, bottom.
It was one of those long

818
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:11,000
collapsible ladders.
So it was at least 8 feet and it

819
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:14,000
hit and it flipped and flipped
and flipped and then finally it

820
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:16,360
went flat.
The person behind me, 'cause I

821
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:18,840
could see this happening in my
mirror and I was going, Oh my

822
00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:22,840
gosh, I'm glad I moved.
And by the time they got to it,

823
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:25,400
it was flat on the ground.
So they drove right over it.

824
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:29,280
But where I would have been, it
would have hit me at some point.

825
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:33,200
I just thought, oh, I'm really
glad I got that feeling or

826
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:36,920
impression or whatever it is
that that just told me back off,

827
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:38,440
slow down, you know, kind of
thing.

828
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:43,160
So I was grateful for it also.
No idea what I can associate

829
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:45,200
that with.
Here's another one.

830
00:42:45,240 --> 00:42:49,480
This person says I wear CPAP at
night due to severe sleep apnea.

831
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:53,320
I can relate.
And the individual says the mask

832
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:55,840
sits over my mouth and nose and
provides positive air pressure

833
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:57,640
to prevent me from stop
breathing.

834
00:42:57,640 --> 00:42:59,760
During the night.
There is a small tank of water.

835
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:02,760
I'm explaining this the way they
wrote it, partially because not

836
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:05,520
everybody knows how Cpaps are.
There's a small tank of water

837
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:07,520
that keeps the air from drying
out my lips and throat.

838
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:11,080
One night about a week after my
mom's passed away, I was

839
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:13,520
sleeping and felt a handshake my
shoulder really hard.

840
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:16,880
I thought my husband was making
me up for work so I shrugged him

841
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:20,360
off.
About 3 seconds later I felt

842
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:22,680
another heart shake even
stronger than before.

843
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:26,200
This time I sat up and took off
my mask to yell at my husband,

844
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:30,320
but he was not asleep in bed.
I laid back down and put out,

845
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:33,200
went to put my mask back on and
noticed that was of 1/3 of the

846
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:35,880
way full of water.
My tank was backing up into my

847
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:37,720
mask and I seriously could have
drowned.

848
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:40,720
I'm pretty sure that hand was my
mom saving me in my sleep.

849
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:45,080
Wow, 'cause, you know, if a
person had been a sleeping

850
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:47,120
soundly enough and the mass
filled up and they took a deep

851
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:50,120
breath that could they could
have respirated deeply.

852
00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:52,160
It would be inhalation
pneumonia, you know?

853
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:54,640
Yeah.
So that was pretty cool.

854
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:58,120
I just there are a bunch of
different stories.

855
00:43:58,120 --> 00:43:59,160
Here's one.
It says.

856
00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:01,280
Once I went on a skiing trip
with some friends.

857
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:04,160
After the first day of skiing we
headed back down the slope.

858
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:07,400
Right at the bottom near the
chair lift my ski tips crossed

859
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:10,280
and I fell.
I was in pain after the fall but

860
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:12,200
I got up and went back to my
room at the hotel.

861
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:14,120
The pain was getting worse and I
feared it.

862
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:17,480
Feared it was a cracked rib.
I was sitting on the bed waiting

863
00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:20,320
for the tub to fill up when I
heard a male voice say get help

864
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:23,200
for your spleen.
I got up, got dressed.

865
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:27,480
Yeah, I got up, got dressed and
headed down to the lobby where

866
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:29,200
they took me to Slopes Medical
Building.

867
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:31,440
After the exam.
The guy there said I could go

868
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:33,320
and would probably be OK.
Probably.

869
00:44:34,240 --> 00:44:38,000
I asked them to call an
ambulance because of what the

870
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:40,560
voice said.
Three hours and 90 miles later

871
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:42,240
we arrived at the Regional
Hospital.

872
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:44,800
They took me in and ran ACT scan
on me.

873
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:47,640
The doctor came back and said I
was bleeding internally and my

874
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:50,680
spleen was ruptured.
I'm so glad I listened to the

875
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:53,320
voice or I would have died that
night in the hotel room.

876
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:56,280
And that's true.
Spleen injuries are are

877
00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:58,880
terrible.
I mean even a very small

878
00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:01,040
laceration to the spleen can be
deadly.

879
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:05,480
Most of the time a spleen injury
is Sometimes they have severe

880
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:07,400
pain, as you know, but sometimes
they don't.

881
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:09,520
You can't.
You can't say spleen anymore.

882
00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:14,040
It stopped being Ored.
It's what it's not being Ored.

883
00:45:14,240 --> 00:45:16,000
Haven't you ever had that
experience where you say a word

884
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:19,120
over so many times that then it
just becomes a weird sound?

885
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:21,480
Oh I see, I thought you meant
they renamed the spleen.

886
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:22,880
I'm like what?
Oh, no, no, no.

887
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:25,360
I'm just saying.
I'm just saying my brain just

888
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:27,280
turned off spleen.
It was like, that's just a silly

889
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:29,040
sound.
Yes, it's true.

890
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:31,760
I've tried to write papers
before and all of a sudden the

891
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:35,880
word the the OR that turned into
not a word anymore.

892
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:37,520
It's like.
What is HICH witch?

893
00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:39,520
Exactly what the heck does that
thing mean?

894
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:40,720
I don't even know what that word
means.

895
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:45,520
Clearly we we move on beyond
what our brain can.

896
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:48,400
Handle.
Without voices, apparently.

897
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:52,120
At those moments, can you think
of any story of anyone that

898
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:54,800
you've heard of that has had an
experience like that?

899
00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:58,040
My mom had one going up to girls
camp and I might butcher this

900
00:45:58,040 --> 00:45:59,760
but I think I'll get the gist
right.

901
00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:02,960
She was driving in an Isuzu
Trooper of all cars, of all

902
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:09,640
vehicles to Camp Shalom and it's
up by fairway in Utah and lots

903
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:12,640
of switchbacks and etcetera and
such a narrow roads, etcetera.

904
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:18,720
She's driving up and she had
something said to her slow down,

905
00:46:18,720 --> 00:46:21,920
like slow down more than you
think is reasonable, right,

906
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:23,840
Because she was she was a
cautious driver and she was

907
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:27,800
already driving slowly through
these treacherous mountainous

908
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:29,760
roads.
She did.

909
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:35,440
And then about 10 seconds later,
the wheel fell off of the back

910
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:37,400
of her car.
And I don't mean it popped.

911
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:41,080
I mean her wheel fell off, fail,
fell off.

912
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:44,400
And, you know, of course, it's a
weird situation.

913
00:46:44,720 --> 00:46:48,600
And she said that she moved
forward and it felt like she did

914
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:50,920
go over the edge.
And fortunately, it was not a

915
00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:54,640
very long, It was a short drop.
But she said it felt like as she

916
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:56,560
went over the edge, somebody
picked up the trooper.

917
00:46:57,200 --> 00:46:59,640
She turned it around and gently
set it back on the road.

918
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:01,640
That was, you know, switched
back back.

919
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:05,920
And that's huge.
I mean, her freaking will think

920
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:08,080
about if her wheel had fallen
off going.

921
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:11,480
Let's say she was going 30 and
she decided to go down to 15 or

922
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:13,720
whatever, right?
That's a huge difference.

923
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:17,760
That's a huge difference in what
impact that sort of a freak

924
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:20,200
accident would have.
Oh, it definitely.

925
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:22,680
I know of.
Yeah, that's a good one.

926
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:26,000
And like the one that there was
no tumbling, there was no, she

927
00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:28,080
didn't, she didn't feel shaken,
nothing.

928
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:30,960
She literally felt like, oh, I
got to grab you, take you off of

929
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:34,520
the side of the mountain and
just set you back down.

930
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:36,560
It was on the side Bill.
But by the way, she was set on

931
00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:38,560
her driver's side.
It wasn't on tires.

932
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:41,120
Wow, she has to.
Set her down gently.

933
00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:45,960
Wow that's wild and that brings
into so many possibilities.

934
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:48,960
Does she pass out and not notice
it or not remember it?

935
00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:51,560
Or was there something doing
that for her?

936
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:54,200
Was it her adrenaline just
misinterpreting it?

937
00:47:54,200 --> 00:47:57,680
Was she having a hallucination
or reverse her hallucination?

938
00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:00,560
I don't be right.
Do as soon as your troopers have

939
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:04,680
a secret thing that does that.
That's probably it.

940
00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:07,360
The as usually, trooper has
wings.

941
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:10,040
It has wings.
You just put a couple of Red

942
00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:11,400
Bulls on the side.
Wait, we're not.

943
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:14,040
We're not not at all sponsored.
By you're not sponsored.

944
00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:17,080
By you don't like them either.
No, I'm just kidding.

945
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:19,920
I have no opinion.
To be honest, I'm indifferent.

946
00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:21,600
There you go.
That's another one.

947
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:23,240
And this is a tear jerker for
me.

948
00:48:23,240 --> 00:48:25,240
This is by someone from
California.

949
00:48:25,240 --> 00:48:26,960
They don't have their full
names, they just have some

950
00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:29,160
initials.
And he said.

951
00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:31,440
I was a father of two and my
daughter was about four months

952
00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:33,160
old and sleeping in her crib one
night.

953
00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:36,000
My wife had been up with her for
a while and had finally gotten

954
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:38,440
her to sleep.
Out of the blue I heard a girl's

955
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:41,320
voice tell me to get up.
I didn't think anything of it at

956
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:44,280
first, but the voice yelled get
up again.

957
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:47,680
Reluctantly I did and checked on
the kids.

958
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:52,120
Just kidding.
So reluctantly I did and checked

959
00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:54,560
on the kids.
My wife had left a blanket in

960
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:56,800
the crib with my daughter and
she had somehow gotten it

961
00:48:56,800 --> 00:48:59,480
wrapped around her head.
I immediately unwrapped her and

962
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:00,760
she took the biggest breath
ever.

963
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:03,360
If that voice had not woken me
up, we would have lost her.

964
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:06,800
I believe it was her little
sister who would be born a year

965
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:09,600
or so later, telling me to save
her big sister from beyond the

966
00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:10,960
veil.
Wow.

967
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:14,040
Yeah, wow.
That's me is pretty intense.

968
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:17,320
That message was getting
through, whatever that looks

969
00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:19,320
like.
So with that, I mean, his

970
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:22,200
adrenaline couldn't have really
been going because he wasn't

971
00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:24,680
doing anything.
If they talk about the

972
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:27,600
adrenaline hallucinations, he
shouldn't be having that because

973
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:29,560
he wasn't.
I mean, he was just sitting

974
00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:32,600
there and he even was reluctant
to get up.

975
00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:36,760
Yeah, I feel like, I don't want
to sound exclusive honestly, but

976
00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:40,600
I feel like every parent has
experienced that something where

977
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:43,440
it was go check on your kid or
go such and such and it's like

978
00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:46,360
why?
You know, whatever, They're

979
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:47,920
fine.
Yeah, they're fine.

980
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:49,920
I saw him 5 minutes ago or
whatever, right.

981
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:52,480
And then you do.
And there was a real.

982
00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:53,880
I have actually, I have one.
I forgot.

983
00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:55,080
I have one.
Holy crap.

984
00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:59,200
I have a good one actually.
No voices, don't know it was

985
00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:02,560
third man or anything.
But so Torin has epilepsy and he

986
00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:05,040
was at a point where he was
they, they were at a point where

987
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:09,760
they were allowed to take baths
if they let me know and let me

988
00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:11,680
know when they were out.
And then they had a time limit,

989
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:12,880
right?
I think it was 10 minutes, which

990
00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:14,240
is lame for a bath, but
whatever.

991
00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:17,120
One time they came, they'd come
and told me they were going to

992
00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:19,040
take a bath.
They had gotten in the bath and

993
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:22,080
about four or five minutes had
passed.

994
00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:26,080
It wasn't very long and I just
had this feeling of I got to go

995
00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:29,760
check on Torin and I was I
totally was like that is

996
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:31,720
ridiculous.
They've been in the tub for like

997
00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:33,320
5 seconds, which obviously
that's.

998
00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:35,880
Fine minutes, but just felt like
it.

999
00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:41,840
So I, I was like, OK, right,
kind of get exasperated with the

1000
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:45,760
other side a lot.
Yeah, well, don't we all don't

1001
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:46,400
be.
Ridiculous.

1002
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:50,000
So I went in to check on them
and sure enough they were under

1003
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:53,360
the water unconscious and I
pulled them out.

1004
00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:55,640
Scared the hell out of me.
And poor Torin?

1005
00:50:55,640 --> 00:50:57,240
Probably, yeah.
Totally.

1006
00:50:57,360 --> 00:50:59,440
It was just like I thought
they'd had a seizure, they

1007
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:01,680
thought they'd fallen asleep,
but regardless, they were

1008
00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:05,080
unconscious under the water and
it wasn't a neat CPR kind of

1009
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:06,960
thing.
Fortunately, when I grabbed them

1010
00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:09,720
and yanked them out, they came
to whatever, whatever state they

1011
00:51:09,720 --> 00:51:16,000
were in that came out of it.
But that is that scared me so

1012
00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:18,440
bad.
And then I wouldn't let Torin

1013
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:20,960
take fast for a long time.
They didn't like that.

1014
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:23,440
Well, so that's one because I
have no reason to check on them.

1015
00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:25,760
They've been in the bath for so
little time.

1016
00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:30,040
That and really, I got to be
honest, if I hadn't been torn, I

1017
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:31,200
probably wouldn't have listened
to it.

1018
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:34,640
Like because of the epilepsy I
was like, I better just do it.

1019
00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:38,120
Yeah, yeah.
And I and, you know, I don't

1020
00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:42,240
know how many times you argue
about Spirit or whoever giving

1021
00:51:42,240 --> 00:51:44,080
messages, but I know I don't
know.

1022
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:48,880
Well, one time I was driving
either to or from Utah back to

1023
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:50,720
California.
I don't recall which direction I

1024
00:51:50,720 --> 00:51:52,920
was going.
I had someone in the car with

1025
00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:54,400
me.
We've been driving along.

1026
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:56,360
And it was.
No, we were going back to Utah

1027
00:51:56,360 --> 00:51:58,400
because we had been on Christmas
break, going through the

1028
00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:01,240
mountains, which are sketchy in
the best of times, but

1029
00:52:01,240 --> 00:52:03,440
especially when it's stormy.
Donner Passeno.

1030
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:08,240
Yeah, yeah.
I was driving and I still don't

1031
00:52:08,240 --> 00:52:13,160
know what happened exactly, but
all of a sudden I hit a little

1032
00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:14,840
bit of black ice because I could
feel it.

1033
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:17,360
I could feel my car shimmy a
little bit.

1034
00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:21,440
I had driven in those conditions
enough time that I just, OK, I

1035
00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:24,440
just steered gently, didn't
break.

1036
00:52:24,640 --> 00:52:28,840
I was able to go off the side
into the median, which at that

1037
00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:31,360
point was just a long stretch of
sand.

1038
00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:35,400
When we came off we were
spinning and I know they were at

1039
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:39,080
least five times that we spun,
but I wasn't sure at that point.

1040
00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:41,080
I'm trying to put on the brake
and stuff but nothing was

1041
00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:43,560
changing anything and we stopped
spinning.

1042
00:52:43,560 --> 00:52:46,160
Person that was in the car with
me had been asleep when we went

1043
00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:49,680
into the spin and woke up as we
were coming out, so it was quite

1044
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:51,800
disoriented.
He started to get out of the

1045
00:52:51,800 --> 00:52:54,160
car.
He still had a seat belt on but

1046
00:52:54,160 --> 00:52:57,720
he started to lean out of the
car and I said no don't because

1047
00:52:57,720 --> 00:52:59,640
I had felt like I didn't even
really think about.

1048
00:52:59,640 --> 00:53:02,840
I just know don't is what I had
felt and so I said it.

1049
00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:05,680
But he closed his car and as
soon as he did we were hit from

1050
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:07,280
behind.
Oh my God.

1051
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:09,400
Yeah.
And the car that I was driving

1052
00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:12,800
was a Toyota Celica 77 back in
the day when they used to make

1053
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:16,360
cars out of actual metal.
And so the doors were very

1054
00:53:16,360 --> 00:53:18,160
heavy.
He was leaning out with his

1055
00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:20,360
head.
Even if I didn't know if he was

1056
00:53:20,360 --> 00:53:22,840
going to be killed or something
like that, I felt like he was

1057
00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:26,080
potentially going to get quite
damaged because if a big heavy

1058
00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:29,280
door falls on somebody, that can
at least cause a head injury or

1059
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:31,240
something.
But I had visions of his head

1060
00:53:31,240 --> 00:53:33,720
rolling down the highway or
something, which would not be

1061
00:53:33,720 --> 00:53:35,080
good.
I just had a really strong

1062
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:37,120
impression that no, don't, he
didn't.

1063
00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:40,560
And he as soon as the car hit us
from behind, he looked at me

1064
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:42,960
like, how did you know?
I don't know.

1065
00:53:43,640 --> 00:53:46,320
Anyway, we everything was
reasonably well.

1066
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:47,800
We had a little damage and
carried on.

1067
00:53:48,040 --> 00:53:51,520
But what I did notice in that
section on that freeway, that

1068
00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:55,080
was literally the only place
that wasn't a cement divider

1069
00:53:55,120 --> 00:53:58,160
about two miles ahead of us.
Someone probably had a similar

1070
00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:02,280
experience, but they hit the
cement divider.

1071
00:54:03,360 --> 00:54:06,600
Their vehicle had flipped onto
the top and was squished.

1072
00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:08,760
The top was squished down to the
level of the doors.

1073
00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:12,400
Wow.
And I was just like, oh man, I'm

1074
00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:13,720
really glad we were where we
were.

1075
00:54:13,720 --> 00:54:16,480
And, and the guy that hit us
wanted to stand around and chat.

1076
00:54:16,480 --> 00:54:18,680
And I said, no way, man.
Two of us came off here.

1077
00:54:18,680 --> 00:54:20,040
I'm not waiting for somebody
else.

1078
00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:22,920
So.
So I went on and here I was a

1079
00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:24,360
college kid, he was an older
guy.

1080
00:54:24,360 --> 00:54:25,840
I was.
I'm not waiting for anything

1081
00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:26,640
here.
I'm leaving.

1082
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:28,120
We have each other's
informations.

1083
00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:30,000
Bye bye.
The last one I wanted to share

1084
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:31,160
1.
Share also.

1085
00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:36,040
Oh good, OK oh good.
This is another one that was

1086
00:54:36,040 --> 00:54:38,600
written in this article.
It says I was a very poor

1087
00:54:38,600 --> 00:54:40,760
college kid who hitchhiked
almost everywhere.

1088
00:54:41,040 --> 00:54:43,880
One day I've been out visiting
some friends that lived about 10

1089
00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:46,240
miles from my dorm.
I'd gotten a ride back with a

1090
00:54:46,240 --> 00:54:48,640
guy I'd met in class.
I was getting out of his van

1091
00:54:48,640 --> 00:54:51,880
when a woman's voice told me
that I needed to climb back in

1092
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:55,560
and thank him again for the ride
As I put my second foot up onto

1093
00:54:55,560 --> 00:54:57,560
the floor of the passenger side
of the van.

1094
00:54:57,560 --> 00:54:59,000
They had been stepping out I
guess.

1095
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:00,680
So they had one foot in, one
foot out.

1096
00:55:00,920 --> 00:55:03,800
They brought their foot back in.
A huge truck and trailer passed

1097
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:05,960
behind me going about 45 miles
an hour.

1098
00:55:06,040 --> 00:55:08,280
If this person had been
partially in and out, This

1099
00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:10,800
individual says that I was told
about the speed after the

1100
00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:15,280
incident had been reported, but
this vehicle removed the van

1101
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:17,000
door and the trim off the door
frame.

1102
00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:20,200
It passed them on the wrong side
of the road.

1103
00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:23,200
If they hadn't turned back to
thank him a second time, the

1104
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:25,920
truck and trailer would have hit
me and I would have been its

1105
00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:28,320
hood ornament.
I'm very thankful to whomever

1106
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:34,160
reminded me of my manners that
day and I I love that.

1107
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:37,800
But gosh, just the thought of
what could have happened, it

1108
00:55:37,800 --> 00:55:40,280
would be so traumatic for every
single person involved.

1109
00:55:40,560 --> 00:55:43,720
And as it was, they ripped the
door off and this trim, so that

1110
00:55:43,720 --> 00:55:46,640
was a very close hit.
Wow, yeah.

1111
00:55:47,480 --> 00:55:48,800
What was the story you
remembered?

1112
00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:53,400
OK, so this one I actually fact
checked because my dad is, you

1113
00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:55,360
know, likes to tell tall tales
stories.

1114
00:55:55,720 --> 00:55:59,720
Tall tales, Yes, my mom and my
dad used to live in California

1115
00:55:59,720 --> 00:56:01,040
and of course I forgot where
now.

1116
00:56:01,720 --> 00:56:03,240
Novato, yes.
Thank you, Novato.

1117
00:56:03,560 --> 00:56:06,520
I was thinking about.
I live, no, well, I lived in

1118
00:56:06,520 --> 00:56:08,000
Novato as well.
I don't know if you remember

1119
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:10,440
this, but we were actually
almost neighbors.

1120
00:56:10,760 --> 00:56:14,760
They moved before I moved there,
but I know we know people that

1121
00:56:15,040 --> 00:56:18,520
still live in Novato.
We both know those individuals

1122
00:56:18,920 --> 00:56:21,480
because we live there.
They actually know my in laws

1123
00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:23,640
because of living in the same
area.

1124
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:25,360
Yeah, they knew them before I
did.

1125
00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:27,360
I mean, not my in laws.
My sister's in laws.

1126
00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:29,080
What have I said?
My sister's in laws.

1127
00:56:29,400 --> 00:56:30,240
Anyway, go ahead.
I knew you.

1128
00:56:30,240 --> 00:56:33,000
Didn't have consistent in laws
so I think you meant something.

1129
00:56:33,080 --> 00:56:36,160
Else that's right.
Thanks, so anyway they were the

1130
00:56:36,160 --> 00:56:38,280
1.
Time he so one time he was

1131
00:56:38,280 --> 00:56:41,400
driving back to Utah for some
reason and he was alone and I

1132
00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:43,720
don't remember the reason that
he was driving back to Utah and

1133
00:56:43,720 --> 00:56:46,400
he was doing it at night because
you know, no traffic, all of

1134
00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:49,920
that stuff, etcetera.
And he was driving up on I-5.

1135
00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:54,040
He got to a point he could tell
you the spot and I, when I, I

1136
00:56:54,040 --> 00:56:56,400
was actually fact checking it as
he was retelling the story

1137
00:56:56,400 --> 00:56:58,280
because I asked him to tell my
kids, but I don't remember where

1138
00:56:58,280 --> 00:56:59,880
it was.
But he got to a specific spot

1139
00:56:59,880 --> 00:57:03,200
between Salt Lake City and
Novato on I-5.

1140
00:57:03,240 --> 00:57:06,960
He had this feeling like I
should pull over and just maybe

1141
00:57:06,960 --> 00:57:09,560
take a nap or something.
And he was not, I'm not tired.

1142
00:57:09,800 --> 00:57:13,720
He's driving and this, this car
pulls up on his left and the

1143
00:57:13,720 --> 00:57:16,680
driver is just staring at it,
just staring at him, pacing him

1144
00:57:16,680 --> 00:57:19,720
and staring at it.
And he's like, what the hell,

1145
00:57:19,720 --> 00:57:21,000
right.
And so he kind of would slow

1146
00:57:21,000 --> 00:57:22,440
down and the guy would slow
down.

1147
00:57:22,440 --> 00:57:24,200
He was just pacing him at the
next exit.

1148
00:57:24,200 --> 00:57:26,040
He was, he was like, he was
tricky, right?

1149
00:57:26,040 --> 00:57:29,040
So he didn't seem like he was
going to exit and then he exited

1150
00:57:29,640 --> 00:57:31,920
and then he, he did decide to
take a nap because he's like,

1151
00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:34,160
I'm not getting back on the
freeway till that guy's long

1152
00:57:34,160 --> 00:57:35,880
gone, right?
So he took a little nap.

1153
00:57:35,880 --> 00:57:37,840
I think he said it was one or
two hours or something.

1154
00:57:38,240 --> 00:57:41,400
And he got back on the road and
he drove through the night back

1155
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:43,080
to Salt Lake City.
When he got to Salt Lake City

1156
00:57:43,080 --> 00:57:46,400
and got to civilization again,
he found he heard that there had

1157
00:57:46,400 --> 00:57:51,480
been multiple sniper shootings
on I-5 in this particular area.

1158
00:57:51,480 --> 00:57:55,080
And what the guy was doing, what
I said, sniper, not sniper

1159
00:57:57,080 --> 00:57:59,160
shootings.
Yeah, what the guy was doing is

1160
00:57:59,160 --> 00:58:02,360
he's pulling up and pacing
people and then just shooting

1161
00:58:02,360 --> 00:58:04,320
them through his windows.
Well, through their windows, his

1162
00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:06,920
windows long, probably down or
broken, who knows.

1163
00:58:06,920 --> 00:58:09,320
But it was the exact description
of the guy in the car.

1164
00:58:09,320 --> 00:58:11,960
And my dad was his next victim.
And.

1165
00:58:12,280 --> 00:58:14,320
He just had this, Yeah.
He just had this thought, even

1166
00:58:14,320 --> 00:58:16,360
though he didn't.
He wanted so bad to get just get

1167
00:58:16,360 --> 00:58:17,680
to Salt Lake City.
He didn't want to stop.

1168
00:58:17,680 --> 00:58:20,120
He didn't want to take the time.
He just wanted to get it over

1169
00:58:20,120 --> 00:58:21,200
with.
Right, Right.

1170
00:58:21,480 --> 00:58:23,440
And he just heard.
And maybe he really heard it.

1171
00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:26,840
Who knows, but you just heard
Get off the freeway.

1172
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:28,760
And that's wild.
And those things happen all the

1173
00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:31,240
time.
And one thing with this, the

1174
00:58:31,240 --> 00:58:35,120
third man factor or syndrome,
therapists have been trying to

1175
00:58:35,120 --> 00:58:39,480
use it in therapy because if it
is a coping mechanism, they're

1176
00:58:39,480 --> 00:58:43,880
working with trauma victims to
help them identify this is a

1177
00:58:43,880 --> 00:58:46,960
coping mechanism and use the
third man or the words or the

1178
00:58:46,960 --> 00:58:50,760
sounds that they get as
something that they can kind of

1179
00:58:50,760 --> 00:58:52,760
call on.
It didn't say in what I read.

1180
00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:56,280
Well, frankly, I didn't look for
into it about how they try and

1181
00:58:56,280 --> 00:58:59,040
put it into therapy, but it's
something that they're trying to

1182
00:58:59,040 --> 00:59:02,320
work with to see if it can be
something that sort of triggered

1183
00:59:02,320 --> 00:59:04,440
to help people in a stressful
situation.

1184
00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:08,160
And I think of times like panic
disorders and maybe even

1185
00:59:08,160 --> 00:59:11,760
psychotic moments, like where
that person had the dog that

1186
00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:14,440
identified if someone was really
there or not.

1187
00:59:14,520 --> 00:59:16,800
Maybe that's one of the checks
they can do.

1188
00:59:16,840 --> 00:59:18,960
I didn't look into that anymore
because I knew we'd be getting

1189
00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:20,400
close to time anyway.
Sure.

1190
00:59:20,400 --> 00:59:24,520
Well, what that makes me think
of is the the new studies on

1191
00:59:24,560 --> 00:59:28,640
ketamine, because ketamine's a
hallucinogenic, but it's been

1192
00:59:28,640 --> 00:59:31,800
showing signs of being able to
to help with mental health.

1193
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:36,040
I wonder if the ketamine is
somehow replicating that or even

1194
00:59:36,040 --> 00:59:38,200
if not replicating it causing it
or whatever.

1195
00:59:38,200 --> 00:59:39,920
I don't know.
I'm not not a scientist, don't

1196
00:59:39,920 --> 00:59:43,680
know much about ketamine
research or anything, but just

1197
00:59:43,760 --> 00:59:47,120
what from what little I know.
And anyway, yeah, it's just,

1198
00:59:47,960 --> 00:59:50,360
it's also fascinating.
It's it's so intertwined and

1199
00:59:50,360 --> 00:59:52,400
maybe not intertwined.
And like you know, there's just.

1200
00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:55,320
This is why it's fun.
We may never be able to

1201
00:59:55,320 --> 00:59:57,600
understand it because, as we've
talked about, the brain can't

1202
00:59:57,680 --> 01:00:01,320
really be fully studied or fully
mapped out because everyone is

1203
01:00:01,320 --> 01:00:04,560
so different.
The idea that in a time of need

1204
01:00:04,560 --> 01:00:08,160
or a time of distress that are a
portion of our brain.

1205
01:00:09,040 --> 01:00:13,240
Gets us a friendly person to
help us is actually really kind

1206
01:00:13,240 --> 01:00:18,120
of amazing and comforting to me.
And it's like, yeah, it is.

1207
01:00:18,880 --> 01:00:20,640
Yeah.
It almost feels like our

1208
01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:23,960
imaginary friends when we were
young, and maybe they were

1209
01:00:23,960 --> 01:00:27,720
imaginary friend was 1/3 factor
or third, the third man syndrome

1210
01:00:28,000 --> 01:00:32,120
where it's something that that
individual needed to cope with

1211
01:00:32,120 --> 01:00:35,520
things.
And is this something that came

1212
01:00:35,520 --> 01:00:37,440
along the same lines in the same
way?

1213
01:00:37,640 --> 01:00:39,560
Probably.
It kind of sounds like it to me.

1214
01:00:39,640 --> 01:00:41,280
As you said, it's a it's a
mystery.

1215
01:00:41,280 --> 01:00:43,680
Will we ever know completely?
Probably not.

1216
01:00:44,360 --> 01:00:47,720
And also I don't think it's the
top of of study for everyone.

1217
01:00:47,720 --> 01:00:50,040
So it's probably not a really
big issue.

1218
01:00:50,440 --> 01:00:54,760
They just noticed that people
have this, and also it is more

1219
01:00:54,760 --> 01:00:59,480
common in individuals that
especially experience a lot of

1220
01:00:59,480 --> 01:01:01,440
trauma.
That makes sense to me that

1221
01:01:01,440 --> 01:01:04,800
they've developed this coping
mechanism to get through the

1222
01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:07,000
stuff that they have to deal
with.

1223
01:01:07,400 --> 01:01:11,080
And so I like the idea.
I think I'm totally open to

1224
01:01:11,440 --> 01:01:15,520
kind, friendly voices telling me
what I need to do when I'm in an

1225
01:01:15,520 --> 01:01:17,960
emergency situation.
Yeah, me.

1226
01:01:18,080 --> 01:01:19,360
Too.
All right, if you've made it

1227
01:01:19,360 --> 01:01:22,000
this far, clearly you like a
little mayhem with your

1228
01:01:22,000 --> 01:01:24,080
medicine.
Or you just enjoy hearing us

1229
01:01:24,080 --> 01:01:25,920
ramble about weird medical
mysteries.

1230
01:01:26,240 --> 01:01:27,800
Either way, we'd love you for
it.

1231
01:01:28,040 --> 01:01:30,680
So hit that follow or subscribe
button wherever you're

1232
01:01:30,680 --> 01:01:32,640
listening.
And toss us a rating or review

1233
01:01:32,640 --> 01:01:35,640
while you're at it.
Helps other curious weirdos find

1234
01:01:35,640 --> 01:01:38,320
the show.
And we know there are a lot of

1235
01:01:38,320 --> 01:01:40,440
you out there.
Oh so many.

1236
01:01:40,680 --> 01:01:42,840
Come join the chaos.
Thanks for listening to

1237
01:01:42,840 --> 01:01:45,960
Medicine, Mystery, mayhem, and
sometimes Murder.

1238
01:01:46,600 --> 01:01:49,080
Do you have an idea for an
episode of this podcast?

1239
01:01:49,480 --> 01:01:52,360
Just want to say hi?
You can get in touch with us at

1240
01:01:52,400 --> 01:01:57,080
our M4 pod.
That's OURM

1241
01:01:57,160 --> 01:02:03,600
thenumberfourpod@gmail.com.
We read every e-mail, and

1242
01:02:03,600 --> 01:02:06,960
sometimes we even respond just
like real professionals.

1243
01:02:07,120 --> 01:02:11,520
Because we are.
Old friends with new twists and

1244
01:02:11,520 --> 01:02:13,080
lots of body bags.