Ep. 34: I Will Survive

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Welcome to M4 Medicine, mystery,
mayhem, and sometimes murder.

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I'm Andrea Marziano and RN with
35 years of experience across

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various fields.
From direct patient care in

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hospitals to home health,
geriatrics, and injury medicine,

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I face life, death, and
everything in between.

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And I'm Crystal Miller and RN
with 13 1/2 years of experience.

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My work spans home health,
Hospice, emergency care,

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geriatrics, and occupational
health.

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From the chaos of trauma based
quiet moments with patients,

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I've seen stories that defy
explanations.

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We've been friends for over 25
years and as nurses we've shared

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countless stories that have left
us and our families speechless.

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Now we're bringing those stories
and many more to you in

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medicine, mystery, mayhem, and
sometimes murder.

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Each week, we'll uncover cases
that challenge the boundaries of

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medicine, sharing the human
stories behind the science.

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From puzzling medical mysteries
to shocking real life crimes,

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we'll bring you stories that'll
leave you questioning everything

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you thought you knew while.
We're both experiencing treats,

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nurses.
We want to make it clear we're

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not here to give medical advice.
This podcast is about

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storytelling, education and
exploration, not diagnosing or

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treating medical conditions.
This is medicine, mystery,

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mayhem and sometimes murder.
Let's dive in.

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Hey Crystal, how are you?
I'm doing well.

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How are you?
I am.

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Well, thank you.
We don't usually talk about

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dates when we record because we
don't record and publish

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immediately a lot of times.
But today is Mother's Day as

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we're recording, so happy
Mother's Day.

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Happy Mother's Day to you too.
Well, I thank you very much.

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I plan to spoil myself after
this with a nap.

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I love it.
I don't know what I'm going to

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do, but you know something.
Maybe I'll go get food.

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I don't know.
Yeah, celebrate ourselves for

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being mothers.
That's good.

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Yeah.
Well, today I decided to do

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something more cheerful
generally.

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And their survival stories, and
I know we both like those.

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OK, great.
Love it.

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Yeah, yeah.
My sources today are

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rainforestcruises.com guides,
the story of Jillian Kopecki,

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and I thought that was an
interesting title of a magazine,

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rainforestcruises.com.
I was thinking of looking at it

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because we actually were talking
about doing rainforest cruise.

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So that was fun, but not the one
that this person was involved.

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Or the one with antivirus?
That's right.

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Let's not get on that one
either.

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Yep, so true.
And then the next one is a video

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of Harrison Okene and he had a
recovery story that we'll talk

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about.
And that was really interesting

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watching the recovery because
they actually were videoing as

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he was recovered.
And we'll talk about the story

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in a few minutes.
And that was pretty cool.

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This is also related to an
article in the Guardian that

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said I survived 3 days in a
capsized boat on the ocean

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floor.
And that is Harrison O'keene.

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Then there's one another one
about him from National

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Geographic.
There were a lot of articles

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about him and there was one
about a man named Mario

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Prosperi.
And he survived in the Boston,

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the Sahara Desert.
And there were a couple of BBC

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News articles that these linked
to as well.

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And the information was similar.
So it was about those.

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Actually all three of them the
BBC had articles on.

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OK, cool.
Thanks, BBC.

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Yeah, thanks.
Well, anyway, the first story is

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1 about Julian Kopecki, and I
may well be pronouncing it

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incorrectly, but that's what it
appears to me.

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This was based on an event that
happened on December 24th in

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1971.
OK, that's Christmas Eve.

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Yes, it is.
And Julianne was 17 at the time,

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and she was studying a program
in high school to become a

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zoologist like her father.
She was working in Pocola in the

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Peruvian Amazon.
Can you imagine?

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We've talked about how we've
done things or did things in the

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70s that we can't even imagine
our our children doing at the

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same age, 17 years old.
She's off in the Amazon just

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doing her studies as.
Oh, OK.

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Well, that's fun.
Since she was coming home, she

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was actually, her mom was
actually there, but not in the

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same study.
But apparently she was there

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somehow.
But she and her mom were flying

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home to visit with her father,
who was in Germany.

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And on the that day, there were
some flight warnings because of

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weather.
And the pilots had decided that

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they were going to go anyway
because of the pressure of time

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getting people home for
Christmas and that kind of

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thing.
So the flight continued as

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planned.
This turned out to be a

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catastrophic mistake.
Ish.

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Yeah, big time.
Ish.

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Around 60 minutes after takeoff,
the plane was struck by

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lightning as it flew through
some strong turbulence 21,000

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feet above the Amazon
rainforest.

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The plane was struck by
lightning.

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The lightning hit the plane.
Yes, and it wasn't a it was not

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a giant plane, but we'll talk
about it later.

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But there were 92 passengers in
it.

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Lasan Lasan flight 5 O 8 is what
it was.

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And so it wasn't tiny, but it
was struck by lightning.

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Julian was noted to have held
onto her mother, who was next to

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her on the plane.
As the result of the lightning

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strike, a wing caught on fire
and separated from the plane.

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Oh my goodness.
Which unfortunately causes the

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plane to immediately
disintegrate.

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At least in this case, it
crashed into the mountain

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terrain.
Hello.

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However, before that happened,
Julianne was sucked out of the

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aircraft into the cold air in
the Black Knight, it said.

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Oh my.
Gosh.

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And listen to this She fell more
than two miles to the ground and

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she was still strapped in her
seat.

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Oh my goodness.
Yeah, there's just that is a

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very unlikely survival,
miraculously, which I mean, in

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this case, that word is
definitely appropriate, I think.

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Yeah. 10 hours later, she awoke
alive on the jungle floor.

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She was still strapped into her
seat.

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That's wild.
I know, and also 10 hours and

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strapped in a seat on the jungle
floor.

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Everything's out there.
Yeah, exactly.

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I'm like I pawns.
I mean, I know just that alone

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and to have, I mean, obviously
she was unconscious for 10

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hours, so that was probably
good.

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I don't know for sure, but she
had had damage to her eye

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because of the sudden change in
air pressure and it burst

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capillaries in her eye.
And she had a broken collar

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bone, a deep cut in her arm, and
a severe concussion, which

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remarkably was all she had.
Because I think about the impact

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and how everything.
They had to have slowed her down

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when she had before she hit the
ground.

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It's possible she was
unconscious, so she doesn't

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know, but it's possible that it
bounced off a few treetops or

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something like that.
But there's no way.

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There's no way to to document
that.

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Nothing that I saw ever said
anything about that.

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But Julianne spent the rest of
the day in and out of

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consciousness.
And she was too injured and weak

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to even take herself out of the
seat she was strapped to.

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So she eventually felt stronger.
And her first priority, she

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said, was to locate her mother.
And I know and during the crash

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she had lost her glasses, which
she needed to see, and she also

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had one eye swollen shut.
So she went to look for her

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mother the best she could, but
the search was just too hard for

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her to do.
And she said she had to really

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concentrate on her survival.
And she also was fairly

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confident that her mother would
not have survived this and also

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that she was unlikely to see her
again.

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What she did was for eight days,
she went through the jungle just

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trying to find a way out or some
help or something.

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And there was a, a picture of
the aerial view of where she

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was.
And it was trees as far as I

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could see.
And like you said, probably one

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of those slowed her.
But even still, the impact must

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have been pretty intense.
So she didn't have any idea

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where to go because she just,
she couldn't see anything.

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I mean, obviously she survived
because that's the point of the

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story, but isn't the isn't the
general rules stay where you

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are?
It is, but she, I guess, felt

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like she had to do something.
And she also once, I've seen

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this before, but once a plane or
something goes down in a force

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like that, a lot of times
they're not visible.

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And they probably had some idea
of where the plane had landed,

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but she was not with the plane.
Right, right.

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I mean, again, obviously she
survived, but just, I have to

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tell you, like I think anytime I
hear survival stories, I am

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like, thank you that I've never
been in this situation, knock on

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wood, because I really don't
know what I would do.

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I don't know if I'd have the,
the fortitude or, you know, the,

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the moxie to do anything to
survive.

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And maybe I would, I don't know.
But I'm just really grateful.

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Again, knock on wood.
I am really grateful that I've

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never been in a situation where
I've had to make decisions like

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this.
Yeah.

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And I, I think most of us don't,
fortunately.

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Yeah, they didn't.
Yeah, so she was just kind of

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clamoring through the wreckage
and she or excuse me, the

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jungle.
And then she had found some

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wreckage from the plane and she
had gone through everything that

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she could find.
It was just bits and pieces.

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I guess she found some candy for
eight days.

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That's what she was eating was
candy, which I guess is better

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than nothing, but barely I would
think at least it probably

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helped keep her mouth feel a
little bit moist, but I have no

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idea how much candy.
Or what kind of candy?

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Or what kind of candy?
I mean, it better be good.

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Just I'm like, is it, was it
Hershey's bars?

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Was it, you know, was it little
small lifesavers?

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Like, look who knows?
Well, for some reason, in my

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head I I envisioned little hard
sweets.

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I don't know why that just
little wrapped candies.

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Who knows?
She had been moving around for

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several days and and she heard
the sound.

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This would be unsettling to me,
but she heard the sound of king

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vultures overhead, and we know
why vultures are overhead.

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Yeah.
So she located the bodies of

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several of the passengers from
the flight, and they were buried

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deep in the ground from the
impact.

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And they apparently were killed
instantly from the fall.

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Yeah.
And then she was going through

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the Amazon, as I mentioned.
And in the Amazon, it's always

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talked about the ginormous bugs
that go flying.

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And you practically people joke
that they get to carry off small

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children.
And she had, at the best of

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times, it's hard to keep these
bugs off.

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But she said that at night it
was particularly difficult

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because she was being bitten,
and she was also getting weaker

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and weaker, and she just was not
able to fight the bug.

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So she was covered in bug bites.
And who knows what kind of bugs

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they were.
Yeah.

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Have you ever watched Naked and
Afraid?

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Yes, I have.
Yes, there were several times

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they've been in places like
that.

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One time I believe it was the
Amazon.

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The bug bites that they got was
insane and I have no idea what

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she was wearing.
I don't think it ever said at

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Christmas time.
Hopefully she had at least a few

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clothes on, but who knows what
they how they survived.

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But if she survived in the
chair, I guess her clothes were

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probably OK.
She just was becoming weaker and

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weaker and she knew it.
And she was 17, which means to

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me that she was old enough to
understand the consequence

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potential of what was going on.
And anyway, she.

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Again, that makes me that.
I mean, I think it's human

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nature to tend to try to
personalize things.

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But that makes me think of my 17
year old.

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And I wonder, I wonder again if
she would, if they sorry

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pronounced are hard for me, if
they would, if they would have

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00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:54,720
this tenacity in this fortitude,
or if they would.

230
00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:57,600
I kind of think if I were to ask
them, they'd be like, I just

231
00:11:57,600 --> 00:11:58,640
died.
Just sit there and die.

232
00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:02,520
But I also think knowing them
deeper than their thoughts, I

233
00:12:02,560 --> 00:12:05,040
kind of think that they would
try to survive.

234
00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:08,440
I do too.
I think most people, push come

235
00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:11,440
to shove, they will try.
Some people with more vigor than

236
00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:14,120
others, but I think they would
try.

237
00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:16,200
Yeah, I know.
And this.

238
00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:19,680
Julian found a stream.
She remembered her father's

239
00:12:19,680 --> 00:12:22,920
advice of tracking water
downriver to civilization.

240
00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:26,000
Because when the water goes
down, First off, it tells you

241
00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:30,360
you're going down off wherever
you are directional, right?

242
00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:34,200
And if the stream goes to a
bigger body of water, people

243
00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:37,440
usually congregate about a
bigger body of water.

244
00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:40,600
So that was the hope that she
had.

245
00:12:40,680 --> 00:12:43,400
She eventually came across a
canoe.

246
00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:47,760
So she saw a canoe with an
outboard motor and a gas tank

247
00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:50,160
just right there.
OK.

248
00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:51,800
Yeah.
So she's like, yay.

249
00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:53,880
At this point.
If you remember, she had some

250
00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:57,200
pretty big wounds, and one was a
big dash on her arm, and it had

251
00:12:57,200 --> 00:13:00,280
become infected and was infested
with maggots.

252
00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:05,040
I know, I know.
Although magnets really are a

253
00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:07,720
good thing because they clean
out the dead tissue and probably

254
00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:09,360
kept the infection down to a
degree.

255
00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:15,000
However, I would be unhappy to
know they were there but, she

256
00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:16,720
said.
This is my sister Harmony, who's

257
00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:19,480
also a nurse real quick myself.
I've never experienced it.

258
00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:22,560
My sister Harmony has
experienced maggots in a wound

259
00:13:22,560 --> 00:13:26,440
in a patient and I I'm very
grateful.

260
00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:30,640
I've had some stinky wounds, but
she never maggots like oh Lord

261
00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:32,520
have mercy.
Oh, anyway.

262
00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:35,640
I haven't either, but I did have
someone come in that needed

263
00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:39,080
suture removal, but by the time
she came in her skin was so

264
00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:41,840
necrotic and gross that I just
wiped them off.

265
00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:44,760
I was cleaning the wound and the
sutures all came off with a

266
00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:47,320
bunch of nice stuff.
Anyway, in this case anyway,

267
00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:52,000
sorry.
And anyway, she said this is her

268
00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:54,160
quote.
I remember having seen my father

269
00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:57,160
when he cured a dog if worms in
the jungle with gasoline.

270
00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:00,240
That's kind of where I expected
she was going to go with that

271
00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:02,040
when you mentioned it was
infected with maggots.

272
00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:06,040
Infected and infested with
maggots and gasoline available.

273
00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:08,280
That's right.
And she said she got some

274
00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:09,760
gasoline and poured it on
herself.

275
00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:12,080
I think that would be
unpleasant.

276
00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:15,040
I do too.
I certainly do too.

277
00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:19,320
And then she said I counted the
worms when they started to slip

278
00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:23,600
out, there were 35 on my arm.
She's so 17, I.

279
00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:31,240
Know 1-2 no, no, no one should
never need to count the worms

280
00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:32,400
coming.
Out of their arm?

281
00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:34,040
No.
Oh my.

282
00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:37,040
Yes.
Anyway, so the boat was there,

283
00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:38,600
but she didn't want to just
steal it.

284
00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:40,640
Dude, I would have been in that
boat and on my way.

285
00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:42,320
I know I would have definitely
stole it.

286
00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:44,640
I would have been like I would
have I would have even been

287
00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:47,480
like, hey, if I turn on this
motor and they think I'm

288
00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:50,320
stealing it, come at me, man,
Like perfect, right?

289
00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:53,440
Yeah, yeah.
Well, she didn't want to steal

290
00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:55,440
the boat because she had higher
morals than we.

291
00:14:55,920 --> 00:15:00,520
And she, she decided to go up a
hill, which eventually led to a

292
00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:02,040
camp.
I don't know if she must have

293
00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:05,480
seen a trail or something.
And she was just laying there in

294
00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:07,840
their camp for several hours.
Just laying there.

295
00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:11,760
That's all the energy she had.
And she was watching frogs, she

296
00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:13,600
said, go about their business in
trees.

297
00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:15,720
And she watched them with her
empty stomach.

298
00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:18,720
She considered eating them but
couldn't find the strength to

299
00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:22,280
capture any.
The good news is later she

300
00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:24,760
discovered they were poisonous
dark frogs and it would have

301
00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:28,680
absolutely killed her probably
immediately that I can imagine

302
00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:31,560
that would have been difficult
going food.

303
00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:34,600
Fortunately just not having that
strength because she would have,

304
00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:37,000
like I said, literally killed
herself that way.

305
00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:41,000
But shortly afterwards she heard
some men approaching and they

306
00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:44,160
discovered her lying on the
ground and they obviously could

307
00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:46,920
tell she was injured.
And I would imagine they knew

308
00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:49,600
that the plane had crash because
even if they didn't see it, they

309
00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:51,200
probably would have heard it
because they weren't.

310
00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:52,800
She couldn't have gone too far.
I was, yeah.

311
00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:55,440
I was just going to say, do you
know how far she was, how far

312
00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:57,760
she walked?
OK, it didn't ever say anywhere

313
00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:01,960
how far it was, and knowing what
condition she was in and coming

314
00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:04,120
through a forest, I can't
imagine she could have gotten

315
00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:06,280
very far in her condition.
Sure, sure.

316
00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:10,840
She they couldn't leave that
night to take her anywhere

317
00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:13,400
because it was dark and the
situation they were in and the

318
00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:15,600
area they were in, they couldn't
just go out in the dark because

319
00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:18,040
it was more dangerous.
And so they took care of the

320
00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:22,000
wounds the best they could.
And the next day they took her.

321
00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:24,640
I imagine they didn't say
anything about bringing a pizza.

322
00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:30,320
I'm sure, I'm sure and carefully
because person's been out of not

323
00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:31,880
having food for a while, it can
be a problem.

324
00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:35,680
Yeah, it's hard to take it.
Yeah, so the next day they

325
00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:38,200
started a 7 hour boat ride.
Wow.

326
00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:41,040
Yeah, so imagine if she tried to
walk that.

327
00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:43,840
No way.
If 7 hours was the closest,

328
00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:46,600
that's crazy.
And she had been.

329
00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:49,080
They took her to a missionary
facility, you know, where

330
00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:51,960
missionaries were doing the work
out there, whatever that looked

331
00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:53,600
like.
And she remained there for

332
00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:56,120
several days.
And fortunately, they had things

333
00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:58,080
to give her medical attention
and food.

334
00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:01,160
Then she was able to take a
flight to her original

335
00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:08,480
destination to meet her father.
I know such a trial, but after

336
00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:12,200
she recovered from an injury she
then went back out to assist

337
00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:15,319
search parties to locate the
crash site and recover the body

338
00:17:15,319 --> 00:17:17,800
of the victims.
Guess because she kind of had an

339
00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:20,280
idea of where they were.
I wouldn't have no idea is this.

340
00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:23,839
Girl.
I know I can't even imagine.

341
00:17:23,839 --> 00:17:26,920
First off, having a clue where I
had been.

342
00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:31,520
No idea, I would.
I am so directionally challenged

343
00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:33,960
and if I were in trauma like
that, what the heck.

344
00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:36,840
I don't think so.
Her mother's body was discovered

345
00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:41,080
on the 12th of January.
It didn't sound like she found

346
00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:43,920
them, but she did recover some
of the see some of them.

347
00:17:44,120 --> 00:17:48,520
Of all the 92 passengers and
crew, Julianne was the sole

348
00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:50,720
survivor.
Wow.

349
00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:54,680
Yeah, it was later discovered
that 14 of the passengers,

350
00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:58,160
including her mother, had
survived the fall but then

351
00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:02,560
perished, waiting for rescue.
No, that sucks.

352
00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:04,960
I know.
I don't know how they knew that,

353
00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:07,600
if maybe they could tell by
stomach contents or something

354
00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:08,400
like that.
Yeah.

355
00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:11,200
Maybe because by then rigor
mortis would have come and gone

356
00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:14,160
and everybody.
And so who knows?

357
00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:18,360
I just how sad would that be?
I can't help but wonder if

358
00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:22,160
Julian later thought if they had
stayed together, if if there was

359
00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:23,400
a way that they've been
together.

360
00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:26,160
Because if they both survived, I
can't imagine that wouldn't have

361
00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:29,200
been a thought because
especially knowing Mom was alive

362
00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:31,440
and there was no indication
there was any reason that mom

363
00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:33,960
wouldn't have survived, you
know?

364
00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:37,840
But chances are the injuries
were obviously terrible.

365
00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:39,800
But they didn't wait.
Amazon.

366
00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:42,320
Yeah.
So these are the people that did

367
00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:45,440
wait and they died.
She didn't wait and she didn't

368
00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:46,480
die.
So I don't know.

369
00:18:47,120 --> 00:18:48,560
I don't know.
Maybe the rules are different

370
00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:51,400
when you're in the Amazon.
Baby.

371
00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:56,040
Oh, my gosh, All of the people
recovered and then they were

372
00:18:56,760 --> 00:19:01,560
laid to rest in a cemetery and
Yarn Kosha or something similar

373
00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:04,880
to that in the Amazon.
I wondered what she was doing

374
00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:07,320
now.
And she's now a biologist living

375
00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:10,520
in Germany.
She is 71, so maybe she's

376
00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:11,680
retired.
I'm not sure.

377
00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:15,840
Her story has been dramatized
quite a few times and one of the

378
00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:18,440
time was in the 1974 Italian
movie.

379
00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:22,000
The titles in Italian, but it
means miracles still happen and

380
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:25,560
she Co wrote in it.
There was also a documentary in

381
00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:29,080
1998 about the event and that
was in German.

382
00:19:29,120 --> 00:19:32,520
She wrote an autobiography
called When I Fell from the Sky

383
00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:36,280
and that was released in 2011
and she.

384
00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:40,640
Alf Deutsch in German.
Yes it was, and she won the

385
00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:42,520
Korean literary prize for it.
Nice.

386
00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:46,400
Wow.
And so that is the story of

387
00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:49,520
falling from the sky.
Wow, wow.

388
00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:53,640
Wow, wow, wow, wow.
That would not be to my taste

389
00:19:54,120 --> 00:19:56,080
because it were mine.
Neither mine either.

390
00:19:56,120 --> 00:19:58,320
I'm out.
I know, thank you.

391
00:19:59,120 --> 00:20:02,240
I prefer to stay in the
appropriate locations, whether

392
00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:04,560
that's the sky or the ground,
but at the appropriate moments

393
00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:10,040
in time incur.
Well, here's another story, and

394
00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:14,120
this is about Harrison Okini.
He survived an event that

395
00:20:14,120 --> 00:20:18,880
occurred on May 26th and 2013.
May 26th, 2013 OK.

396
00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:21,600
Yes.
So a little more recent, well, a

397
00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:26,560
lot more recent and he was
working in a tugboat, which was

398
00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,400
a support vehicle.
Is it what it called a vehicle,

399
00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:32,560
ship, whatever, Anyway, a
support vessel.

400
00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:35,760
Thank you.
A support vessel for an oil rig.

401
00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:39,640
Absolutely.
I was just watching Landman,

402
00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:44,800
which is a television show about
petrochem, oil and gas, and I

403
00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:49,440
watched a tugboat supporting an
oil rig, So I know exactly what

404
00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:51,360
that looks like.
Yeah, yeah.

405
00:20:51,360 --> 00:20:57,800
And this is a story of that.
So anyway, Harrison, this part

406
00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:01,120
was kind of funny, actually.
Was sitting on the toilet.

407
00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:05,480
OK, surely, it said, surely the
worst place to be as a disaster

408
00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:08,200
strikes.
Yeah.

409
00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:10,120
And I was just thinking, oh, my
goodness, that would be

410
00:21:10,120 --> 00:21:11,480
unpleasant.
Remember this?

411
00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:16,120
Is a toilet that does not go
into sewage in the in the land.

412
00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:20,120
Nope.
And while he was sitting there,

413
00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:23,960
a freak wave hit the tugboat and
it turned it upside down.

414
00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:26,960
Wow.
Yeah, the whole, the whole

415
00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:28,320
tugboat.
Yeah.

416
00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:30,960
And Yuck is right.
It's like, wait, that means what

417
00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:32,960
was up is down and what is on
him.

418
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:35,320
And.
But that was the least of his

419
00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:39,720
problems, actually.
So he said, this is a quote.

420
00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:43,040
I was trying to open the door to
get out, you know, the bathroom

421
00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:49,280
when the toilet fell and hit me
on the head, he said.

422
00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:53,280
He said he just had time to see
blood pour from the wound before

423
00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:56,640
the light went off.
And he said everywhere was dark

424
00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:59,560
and the bathroom began to fill
fill with water.

425
00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:02,320
He said it didn't take long.
He said one minute, maybe 2

426
00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:05,600
minutes, and he felt the boat
touch the seabed, which is 30

427
00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:08,920
meters or 100 feet, below the
surface that came to rest.

428
00:22:09,360 --> 00:22:11,360
Wow.
So he knew generally where they

429
00:22:11,360 --> 00:22:15,440
were and and the depth of the
water and I guess it was obvious

430
00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:17,720
that it hit 'cause I imagine it
must have been a pretty hard

431
00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:20,040
bump do.
You know what body of water this

432
00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:22,400
was?
I believe it says in a minute,

433
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:24,120
but I don't remember off the
top.

434
00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:29,000
So he said it was interesting
because we've talked

435
00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:32,520
historically together and I
think sometimes in some of the

436
00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,400
episodes of the podcast about
how words matter and the way

437
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:37,440
things are said or thought about
matter.

438
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:42,840
Well, he did not use the word
disaster at any point during his

439
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:45,040
description of these events, he
calls it.

440
00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:47,600
Yeah, he called an incident.
OK.

441
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:51,720
OK, he said he's come to view
the experience very differently,

442
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,920
and he's always loved water and
as a child dreamed of a house by

443
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:57,840
the sea.
And he says he loves it even

444
00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:00,280
more now.
Oh, OK, right.

445
00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:01,520
Plot twist.
Right?

446
00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:02,800
Because a lot of people have.
Nope.

447
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:04,440
I'm not even taking a bath
anymore.

448
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:08,240
Well, I having had experienced,
I've had two near drowning

449
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:11,080
experiences and I still I still
love water.

450
00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:16,040
I don't know if I love it more.
Yeah, like the ocean is like my

451
00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:17,840
best friend.
I love the ocean.

452
00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:19,360
I.
Love the ocean.

453
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:21,480
Me too.
I love water as well.

454
00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:24,840
And on our property we have
three ponds in the Creek and I

455
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:28,240
just got all the time.
It is one of my favorite things.

456
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:31,520
So we'll back up in time just
for a moment.

457
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:33,920
When Harrison describes what
happened that day.

458
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:38,160
He was just doing his morning
routine and he at that point was

459
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:43,520
29 and he was working as a cook
on on this Jascon 4, which is a

460
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:46,760
tugboat like we said, that was
assisting an oil tanker in this

461
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:48,600
case.
And that's where it was.

462
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:50,920
It was 20 miles off the coast of
Nigeria.

463
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:53,280
I knew it said somewhere, but I
couldn't remember.

464
00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:55,680
So I didn't want to misquote.
That's OK, no worries.

465
00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:58,960
And there have been storms and,
you know, the sea had been

466
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,640
roiling and all that sort of
thing, but that's what happened.

467
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:03,560
So they weren't that worried
about it.

468
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:06,480
And the tug had been helping
stabilize the tanker while it

469
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,840
was in the water because as the
tanker is bigger, I guess it

470
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:12,120
needed more stabilization.
And then the tug can do that.

471
00:24:12,120 --> 00:24:14,480
And tugboats.
If you've never seen one pulling

472
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:17,200
a ship, it's astounding.
It is.

473
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:18,320
I agree.
I have seen one.

474
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:20,120
Remember, I just told you I saw
it.

475
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:22,760
On yeah.
And yeah, well, it's so

476
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:25,360
realistic.
It's actually, it's actually

477
00:24:25,360 --> 00:24:28,600
funny because as I was watching
it, I was like it.

478
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:34,440
That tugboat is so small and
that rig is so big in

479
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:36,920
comparison.
I would say you could compare it

480
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:39,560
to like, let me think about it
for just a second.

481
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:43,560
Like if a tugboat or a peanut
and a rig were one of those big

482
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:47,200
chocolate bars that you get, you
know, like Symphony bars.

483
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:49,280
It's like that.
It's like a peanut pulling that

484
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:51,960
big giant Symphony bar, but but
heavy also.

485
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:55,880
And so I was thinking about it
like, what kind of engine or

486
00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:59,800
miracle of mechanical
engineering does that tugboat

487
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:05,480
have to be able to hold that
that huge monstrous thing that's

488
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:07,360
so much bigger than it?
Yes, well, two things.

489
00:25:07,360 --> 00:25:09,080
Now I want a Symphony bar.
The other.

490
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:14,360
The other thing is, I was when
Max and I were in Florida

491
00:25:14,360 --> 00:25:17,560
visiting Dad and Kimberly one
time, there was a tugboat

492
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:24,080
pulling one of the first
steamship cruise ships ever

493
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:27,040
made.
And it was pulling it from, I

494
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:29,440
think, New York to somewhere
around the coast, and I don't

495
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,040
recall where.
And it was that kind of a ratio

496
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:33,920
where it was tiny and the ship
was huge.

497
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:36,600
And I was asking someone
standing there about it because

498
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:38,880
he said he had been in the
military and he'd been in ships

499
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:40,560
and this was so cool to watch,
etcetera.

500
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:42,360
I said, how the heck is it
pulling it?

501
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:45,520
And he said what he had
experienced in the ships that he

502
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:48,040
had worked with in tugboats he
had worked with was that

503
00:25:48,360 --> 00:25:53,440
initially the ship will start to
push and then the tugboat, once

504
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:55,680
it's in motion, will keep it
moving forward.

505
00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:00,200
So it can move it.
But it it does.

506
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:03,600
And there's some ships that it
has to move when they've lost

507
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:05,960
power or whatever.
But he said in most cases of the

508
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:10,200
ship is capable of it, the ship
will push and then the hug will

509
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:14,000
pull once it's in motion.
And then it's almost as if it's

510
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:16,400
light.
But still, it's a huge feat.

511
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:20,320
And this particular scenario, I
wish I could remember the name

512
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:22,040
of the ship.
He knew it because he had heard

513
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,560
about it and because he had been
in the Coast Guard, Navy.

514
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:28,200
One of those things was
interested in it and we just

515
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:30,480
happened to be on the water and
saw it and we saw it being

516
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,800
tugged across in front of us.
He said it was, it's such a cool

517
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:35,800
thing to see that.
And he said that's just a

518
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:37,680
historic moment.
I'm glad he said it because I

519
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:39,280
didn't realize it was historic.
Moment.

520
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:45,160
Yay, right?
Anyway, so Harrison said that he

521
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:49,440
had this story will take a long
time with me thinking of a

522
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:51,400
Symphony bar again.
I haven't had one of those in

523
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:52,840
forever.
Thanks a lot either.

524
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,000
So he had said he'd gotten up
and he said his prayers like you

525
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,600
did every morning.
And he headed to the galley to

526
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,000
turn on the hot plates to cook
breakfast.

527
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:05,520
And so I'm thinking hot plates.
Well, it's going to be an

528
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:07,400
interesting breakfast, but maybe
they're big.

529
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:08,040
I don't know.
I'm.

530
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:10,480
Thinking of little teeny?
Tiny ones the size of a tiny

531
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:12,200
pot.
I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah, but

532
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:13,880
whatever.
And while it was warming up, he

533
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:16,360
went to go to the bathroom and
he wasn't dressed yet.

534
00:27:16,360 --> 00:27:18,960
Because this is his prep work,
so he's only wearing his boxers,

535
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:22,240
which is not totally relevant,
but it was just a thing he

536
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:24,640
mentioned.
And so like I said, he was in

537
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:29,000
the bathroom when the wave hit,
as we had mentioned earlier, the

538
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,400
cubicle, the bathroom cubicle
had begin feeling very quickly

539
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:37,560
and he started to panic because
he was being flooded out.

540
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:40,960
He was trying to open the door
and he had to really struggle

541
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:43,120
for it.
Finally got out.

542
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:45,560
Everything was dark and
everything was watery and he had

543
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:47,520
no, no idea which way he was
facing.

544
00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:51,840
He was fairly confident that the
top tug boat was on the floor of

545
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:55,040
the sea bed.
So he was fairly because the

546
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:58,120
toilet was upside down, he
figured he must have been upside

547
00:27:58,120 --> 00:28:00,800
down.
But you know, to me, I actually

548
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:04,040
think about that going that
still seems like some level of

549
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:07,840
lucidity that I may not have at
that moment because, wait, you

550
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:10,720
have to have thought of all
these things and it seems like

551
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:13,200
it would be so hard not just to
be totally panicking.

552
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:15,720
The brain turns off.
Altogether, yeah.

553
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:19,200
And the other thing is if you
ever seen a tugboat, it's all

554
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:21,800
enclosed.
This is not a situation where it

555
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:23,200
has a whole bunch of windows.
You.

556
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:26,160
I mean, there are windows, but
they're, they are enclosed.

557
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:29,440
And so getting out of a tugboat
that's turned upside down, I

558
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:31,680
can't imagine that that's a
simple feat.

559
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:34,400
You know, it's not as simple as
just there's a hole you can

560
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:36,080
climb through like.
Right.

561
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,120
Fast.
This is fascinating story to me.

562
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:40,600
It is.
And we'll find out about how

563
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:42,680
they had to keep doors closed
prior to that.

564
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:44,600
But anyway, so he's walking
around.

565
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:45,880
Well, not walking.
He was swimming.

566
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,360
He was swimming around and not
really knowing where he was

567
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:52,040
going, He went to there in the
alley, there was a watertight

568
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:55,480
door, the exit hatch.
And he met two or three of his

569
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:57,560
colleagues there.
He said the water level is

570
00:28:57,560 --> 00:28:59,360
rising and rising.
They were trying to get this

571
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:02,880
waterproof hatch open.
But also we know that the water

572
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:04,440
pressure is coming from both
sides now.

573
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:08,120
Right, right.
So they were not able to do it

574
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:12,040
at that point.
And he said, this is his quote.

575
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:13,840
I did not have the patience to
wait.

576
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:16,640
Oh, wow.
And I'm like, OK, I'm, I don't

577
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:18,840
know what I would have done.
But in this case, he did

578
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:22,360
something that may have been
totally opposite of what the

579
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:25,160
rest of us would have done.
And he turned away from the exit

580
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:27,000
and swam further inside the
tugboat.

581
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:30,720
OK.
Yeah, which feels to me like, Oh

582
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:34,880
dear, doesn't make your chance.
So super enclosed.

583
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:37,840
Right, right.
And I don't know how big

584
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:40,600
tugboats don't look very big,
but they are pretty big.

585
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:44,280
They're and, and the way he
described it later on, we'll

586
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:46,880
talk a little bit.
But he, he described it and had

587
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:49,560
multiple rooms and a few
bathrooms and that sort of

588
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:51,680
thing.
So it wasn't the tallest

589
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:53,400
tugboat, but it wasn't huge
either.

590
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:58,360
He said that he had to make some
quick decisions and so he

591
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:02,600
decided to.
When he swam away, he went and

592
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:06,160
was looking for another way out,
which he knew was unlikely.

593
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:09,440
But he had to try something else
and the force of the water swept

594
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:12,280
him into another toilet.
This toilet was attached to the

595
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:16,080
2nd engineer's cabin.
The door had shut as he was

596
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:19,120
swept in and the water level
rose, but the bathroom did not

597
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:22,320
feel completely OK, so he's in
the bathroom.

598
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:27,680
The water didn't fill the
bathroom completely, but that's

599
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:30,840
where we are right now.
The crew routinely kept all of

600
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:33,640
the cabin doors shut because of
the threat of pirate.

601
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:36,200
Yes.
Every door was shut.

602
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:38,600
I don't know how that would make
it better.

603
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:40,000
I mean, why?
If a pirate?

604
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:42,280
Maybe because if a pirate was on
board, the door would be open.

605
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:44,600
I don't know why that happened.
It didn't.

606
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:46,560
He didn't, really.
I mean, I guess make it harder

607
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:50,360
for the pirates to.
Get to the door.

608
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:54,280
I don't know, maybe maybe that's
it because they couldn't see

609
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,800
what was what, so it would take
longer because they had to open

610
00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:58,280
every door.
I don't really know.

611
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:01,400
But apparently they kept it
closed because of pirates.

612
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:04,440
That also is another whole level
of oh, shoot.

613
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:08,320
But he said that because of
that, the air couldn't go out of

614
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:10,800
the boat completely.
He figured some air had to be

615
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:15,640
trapped inside the boat, so he
kept his head in the small air

616
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:19,520
pocket below the ceiling and in
it was actually the floor, but

617
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:22,520
for him it was the ceiling.
And he said he was clinging to

618
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:26,200
the base of the wash base just
to hold himself up because also

619
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:30,800
remember, even though most
ceilings are 6 feet or so

620
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:34,240
distant, he still needed to be
above the water level.

621
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:38,720
He said he was in the dark and
he kept hearing so many shouts

622
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:41,080
of his colleagues crying and
calling.

623
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:44,880
He really realized at this point
that the exit hatch was his best

624
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:48,200
route to freedom because there
just was no other way he could

625
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:49,440
think of.
He tried.

626
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:52,800
He was trying to leave the
bathroom, but he broke the

627
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:54,880
handle of the door.
Oh my.

628
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,920
Gosh.
And he said, this is his quote.

629
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:01,160
I told myself instead of
panicking, you have to think of

630
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:03,880
a way out.
So he said at that moment he

631
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:07,360
just kind of had a hyper.
I just don't think I could be

632
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:11,000
that reasonable with myself.
Yeah, he just said he knocked

633
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,800
himself into hyper focus and
hyper composure just to be

634
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:15,960
really calm.
And I still.

635
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:19,600
I don't, I don't know.
Especially knowing the options

636
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:21,040
are few.
Yeah.

637
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:24,200
And also water and breathing
don't work that well together.

638
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:26,760
No.
He said he's always been

639
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:29,360
practical.
He was from a family of 13

640
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:32,880
children and he, quote, was
among the youngest.

641
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:36,320
I'm not sure.
So he's on the end of the 13

642
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:38,200
children.
He said his mother had always

643
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:41,440
regarded his him as a helper,
and he used to carry the

644
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:43,480
vegetables with her to the South
and market.

645
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:47,280
He he said he just decided to
persuade himself that he was in

646
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:48,880
charge of the situation.
OK.

647
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:51,880
Yeah, and again, mind over
matter.

648
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:54,040
This is definitely an example of
this.

649
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,920
Yeah, for sure.
So he was in this bathroom,

650
00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:00,920
stuck as I mentioned, and he saw
a vent and he broke it and he

651
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:05,640
used the piece of the vent steel
to pry the door open and free

652
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:07,160
himself.
OK.

653
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:11,720
After he did this and while he
was working, he said the shouts

654
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:15,440
from his fellow colleagues were
stopping and getting quiet.

655
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,360
He assumed they had escaped.
Oh.

656
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,720
He opened the door and entered
the 2nd engineer's cabin and he

657
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:27,080
saw two life jackets and each
one of them had a flashlight or

658
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:28,760
a torch because that's what they
called it.

659
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:32,440
And he put one in his mouth and
the other in his boxers to hold

660
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:35,080
it while he, I guess while he
was swimming, swam back to the

661
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:38,120
watersight door.
And again, he tried to escape

662
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:41,960
and this was the Hatch door and
he couldn't, he couldn't do it.

663
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:44,920
But he was outside the 2nd
engineer's cabin and the cabin,

664
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:47,800
the quarters were full, there
were no air pockets, and he

665
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:50,360
didn't have enough breath to
work at the door for long.

666
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:54,400
He said over the next few
minutes and hours, he returned

667
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:56,600
back and forth from the air
pockets to the door, back and

668
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,080
forth and back and forth.
And he said the first time he

669
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:01,840
did it, though, he almost missed
the way back to safety in the

670
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:04,560
engineer's bathroom.
And there were so many doors

671
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:08,199
that he wasn't sure for a minute
which one it was.

672
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:11,560
And his, this quote from him, he
said if you got stuck in any

673
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:13,400
room, you were lost.
It was totally dark.

674
00:34:13,679 --> 00:34:16,080
And I was confused.
If you don't act fast, you can

675
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:18,400
lose your life there.
He said he learned later that

676
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:20,520
one of his colleagues had
entered the mess room and

677
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:22,679
drowned because there were no
air pockets there.

678
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,560
And I guess he had gone hoping
he would have one and probably

679
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:28,040
just ran out of air before he
could get back out.

680
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:33,040
But Harrison again decided I got
to focus on practicalities.

681
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:36,239
And he was searching through
bags and he found some sardines,

682
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:38,600
a can of cola and some loose
coveralls.

683
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:41,800
And he tore the coveralls into
strips and tied them together

684
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:46,040
into a rope so that he secured
one end to the cabin door and he

685
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:48,719
held the other end so when he
went out of the cabin, he could

686
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:51,920
follow the rope of clothes back
so he would never get lost

687
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:54,679
again.
And that was a really, yeah,

688
00:34:54,679 --> 00:34:57,280
really good idea.
The water was super cold.

689
00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:58,920
Of course.
It's ocean water, for heaven's

690
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:01,120
sakes.
And then he, he.

691
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:04,040
So he's feeling uncomfortable,
but he was ripped.

692
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:06,720
He decided to RIP wooden panels
from the ceiling and tied them

693
00:35:06,720 --> 00:35:09,840
together into a little raft.
And then.

694
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:11,400
Yeah.
And then he could sit up there

695
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:14,560
in the tiny air pocket and.
And then he wasn't completely

696
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:17,560
submerged in the water.
He decided he would just figure

697
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:19,840
out how to get out, even though
the door didn't budget.

698
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:22,160
He said that this was something
that.

699
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:25,520
I want to just say what he said.
It wasn't exactly a quote, but

700
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:28,000
it was the general feeling he
had had that he was in total

701
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:31,280
darkness and silence.
And he said he found self in a

702
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:33,720
strange moment, in a place
beyond all maps of human

703
00:35:33,720 --> 00:35:35,680
survival.
It was as if he had passed into

704
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:39,160
parallel world with only
faltering sense of time and

705
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:41,600
little to cut through the
sensory deprivation.

706
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:43,920
Wow.
Yeah.

707
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:46,680
So have you ever been in those
sensory deprivation pods?

708
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:47,760
No, I know.
I.

709
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:50,680
Know about them but I haven't.
I think I would have a panic

710
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:53,560
attack and die.
Well, I haven't.

711
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:55,720
I enjoyed it.
After I sort of relaxed.

712
00:35:55,720 --> 00:35:58,480
I thought about when he said
that, about being in a sensory

713
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:00,840
deprivation.
I thought about that chamber.

714
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:03,440
And I thought, gosh, if I had to
be in that chamber for hours and

715
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:05,960
hours, especially knowing I
wasn't going to be able to get

716
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:08,680
out in any foreseeable future,
it wouldn't have been that

717
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:11,000
pleasant.
And my water was warm and

718
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,800
lovely.
But he said he did hear the

719
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:18,120
muffled hum of vehicles moving
nearly 30 meters above him.

720
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:21,160
And so he would have known at
that point that they knew the

721
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:24,200
tug was gone, but they didn't
know where.

722
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:27,160
I mean, it's not real easy to
find things in an ocean.

723
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:31,920
He said that he just had to keep
his mind away from the inability

724
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:33,720
to open the door and just stay
put.

725
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:35,080
Right.
Wow.

726
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:40,600
It noted that he had consumed so
much salt water that his throat

727
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:45,760
hurt and his tongue peeled.
And I would think at a point he

728
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:49,200
would have been nauseated
because some water usually makes

729
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:51,840
people throw up.
They didn't mention that, but

730
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:53,520
maybe it's because he's too
polite, I don't know.

731
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:57,680
But he ate the sardines and he
drank the cola while crayfish

732
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:01,560
made a supper of his body.
He can feel them biting his

733
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:04,240
legs, torso and arms, making new
wounds.

734
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:07,000
But you know, there's nothing he
could do.

735
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:08,560
And he couldn't really get rid
of them.

736
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:11,760
And all that time the water was
rising.

737
00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:15,800
He said he thought of his mother
and of his wife and wondered how

738
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:18,560
they were feeling.
How would the wheel world treat

739
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:21,160
he, his mother and his wife and
she?

740
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:23,360
He had access to nothing.
He couldn't even write a note or

741
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:25,440
anything because he couldn't get
to anything.

742
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:27,720
And even if he could find
anything, it would have been so

743
00:37:27,720 --> 00:37:29,080
drenched.
I can't imagine it would have

744
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:32,360
been productive.
Yeah, but he said he prayed and

745
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:36,600
sang so many church songs and.
That's what I do, I think.

746
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:40,000
Sing.
Yeah, and he just tried to stay

747
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:42,240
calm.
And he said this is a quote as

748
00:37:42,240 --> 00:37:43,640
well.
I tried to kill the fear in

749
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:46,320
front of me because one thing
that can fill you, kill you

750
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:48,960
fast, is fear.
That panic that comes at you, it

751
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:51,840
kills you before your real death
comes because the moment you

752
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:53,840
start panicking, you use too
much oxygen.

753
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:59,320
And remember, he had oxygen,
however, there's only so much

754
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:02,680
oxygen and after the carbon
dioxide he's breathing comes

755
00:38:02,720 --> 00:38:07,680
out, it fills the space even
though we can't, we can't see

756
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:10,160
it, but it's there.
And then it starts causing

757
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:13,360
problems as well.
He said that he heard a

758
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:17,000
different sound all of a sudden.
He didn't have any idea that

759
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:21,080
diver had come to put a marker
buoy on the vessel because they

760
00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:23,400
were warning other they found
it, so they weren't other

761
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:27,200
traffic of the location.
Harrison had hammered on the

762
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:30,480
side of the boat, hoping to get
a signal to the person outside,

763
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:34,520
but he had no idea if it was
successful or not, and he had no

764
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:38,200
idea how many hours or days he
he then became aware of a

765
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:41,040
disturbance in the darkness.
He said it was weird, a

766
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:43,720
reflection, like a light, light
bubble.

767
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:48,480
He left his raft, you know, the
floating raft he had built to

768
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:51,000
try to find the source of the
light, and he couldn't.

769
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:53,520
So he went back, filled his
lungs with the little oxygen

770
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:56,120
that was left and looked again.
So he was going out of his face

771
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:58,400
and looked again.
And then all of a sudden he saw

772
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:00,840
a diver swimming on a long
umbilical.

773
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:04,160
And we've talked about those
umbilicals that hold the oxygen

774
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:07,640
and that sort of thing in there.
So the diver was in there, and

775
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:12,240
this is the video I had seen.
He was in there and he, the

776
00:39:12,240 --> 00:39:16,960
diver was coming into the place
where Harrison was and the diver

777
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:21,280
was all in his, his waterproof
air breathing situation.

778
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:24,480
He was trying by hand signals to
tell him what's going on because

779
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:27,040
he couldn't take it off to talk.
They were also worried that if

780
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:30,320
you took off the mask that he
would succumb from carbon

781
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:35,600
dioxide because they knew it had
to be full of carbon anyway.

782
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:40,360
So they were able to get a mask
for him and head cover, which

783
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:44,200
had the breathing in it.
They were able to put it on him.

784
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:48,320
And once he had the mask on, he
had a mic and a speaker so he

785
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:51,920
could communicate with the
people that were trying to help

786
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:54,320
him.
And they were in this video,

787
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:57,160
they were saying it's OK, you
can breathe normally in this,

788
00:39:57,160 --> 00:40:00,240
don't worry is just breathe
normally because I guess he was

789
00:40:00,240 --> 00:40:03,000
still hyperventilating, probably
partially because he's finally

790
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:06,480
getting oxygen, but also
hyperventilating at that time

791
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:09,240
would have been bad.
He was able I saw in the video

792
00:40:09,240 --> 00:40:12,440
they he slid off his little.
Raft area.

793
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:16,240
And the rescuer had his hand and
he was bringing him out and just

794
00:40:16,240 --> 00:40:18,840
saying it's OK, it's all right.
And then it was.

795
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:21,240
It must have been so intense for
both of them.

796
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:26,880
But before, before the diver
knew that Harrison was alive, he

797
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:29,680
had relayed to base that he had
found another body.

798
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:32,960
Oh, wow.
But then this would have totally

799
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:34,960
freaked me out.
Harrison reached out and touched

800
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:38,840
him.
You hear stories like this,

801
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:42,600
like, Oh my golly, OK,
everything's fine.

802
00:40:42,720 --> 00:40:45,000
He was.
So he was taken out to the

803
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:48,280
diver's bell, which is the
little Have you seen a diver's

804
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:51,080
bell or heard of one of those?
I've heard of it, but I don't

805
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:53,520
think I've seen it.
Yeah, it's basically just an

806
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:56,120
enclosed air bubble with oxygen
going to it.

807
00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:58,520
There's nothing else in it
except for, I think some of them

808
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:01,400
do have control so they can move
it around a little bit.

809
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:06,000
Some of them are just literally
an air holder for them to do

810
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:08,080
that.
So they put him into the diver's

811
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:11,640
bell and then from that to a
recompression chamber.

812
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:15,200
Because remember, he had been
underwater for three days and so

813
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:16,840
the pressures on him would have
been in.

814
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:21,440
I know he would have died if he
had been right, brought right to

815
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:22,760
the surface.
Sure, of course he got in the

816
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:26,800
bends, Yeah.
Yeah, he said he couldn't

817
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:29,120
believe it that when the rescue
team told him he'd been

818
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:33,480
underwater for nearly three
days, he said he had no sense of

819
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:37,280
having passed even a single
night 'cause there was no

820
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:39,360
change.
I mean, sure, sure.

821
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:41,920
I'd be surprised if he fell
asleep because I don't know if I

822
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:44,520
could, just knowing that if I
fell asleep, I might fall in the

823
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:46,360
water and drowned.
I don't know.

824
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:49,000
He probably passed out at one
point or another.

825
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:53,600
But when they took him out, they
said they were shocked that his

826
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:55,800
vital signs were normal,
everything was normal.

827
00:41:55,800 --> 00:42:01,560
His temperature, his blood
pressure and the thing when they

828
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:04,120
said his temperature was normal,
that's wild, 'cause he was.

829
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:06,200
In the water all the time.
Cold water.

830
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:08,520
Yeah.
So I guess elevating himself on

831
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:12,880
that float as it were, was
enough to save him, but he still

832
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:14,920
wouldn't, couldn't have possibly
went all the way dry.

833
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:18,080
But maybe, maybe because it was
a small space it kept warm

834
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:19,600
because of his body, I'm not
sure.

835
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:21,960
But he said when he was told
that his vital signs were

836
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:24,240
normal, he said I thought,
that's not normal.

837
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:28,920
Right what?
I know that doesn't make any

838
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:32,040
sense at all.
Well, he, he was released from

839
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:34,600
the recompression chamber and he
was advised to go to the

840
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:36,240
hospital.
He said heck no, he's out.

841
00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:39,200
He was desperate to get home.
He didn't say heck no.

842
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:42,600
That was my, my little editorial
comment, right?

843
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:45,640
So he wanted to, he really
wanted to get home.

844
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:48,400
And over the next few weeks,
media teams had gathered his

845
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:52,240
front door.
And at night, he just had a lot

846
00:42:52,240 --> 00:42:56,080
of dreams and nightmares.
He said he would wake up feeling

847
00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:58,000
that the bed was sinking.
And he said he would literally

848
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:00,840
pick up his wife and carrier,
just try to open the door to get

849
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:03,080
out.
I know.

850
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:07,520
So traumatized, for heaven's
sakes, they decided to go to

851
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:11,520
Gambia for a break.
And they were on a hotel on the

852
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:14,920
sea front.
The article author, that of this

853
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:17,160
particular article said it
seemed like that would have been

854
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:20,360
a really poor choice because my
heavens, isn't that where you

855
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:24,360
nearly died?
But but he Harrison said, no, it

856
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:26,640
was peaceful.
It was very peaceful place.

857
00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:30,440
He swam in the pool in the sea.
And when he got back to Nigeria,

858
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:32,840
he said he was OK.
I guess he just needed the break

859
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:36,120
and maybe he needed to face the
ocean, a little ocean.

860
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:38,120
He didn't.
He didn't ever express that he

861
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:41,280
was afraid of it, but one would
think there had to be some.

862
00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:44,840
Well, I mean, the fact that he's
picking up his wife and trying

863
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:47,000
to move her out of drowning,
that's afraid of it, I would

864
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:48,600
say.
It feels like it.

865
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:51,520
Yeah.
He really, he did mention though

866
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:54,840
that after that he said he was
OK, but then he also still had

867
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:57,120
some real trouble and he saw a
psychiatrist.

868
00:43:57,240 --> 00:44:00,040
He said that she didn't say
anything that made sense to him.

869
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:02,000
So.
OK.

870
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:06,600
So he still felt kind of off, or
he said he felt himself a drift

871
00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:08,760
and then he had another
accident.

872
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:13,800
And that was the turning point.
The year after the type boat

873
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:16,600
sank, he was driving to work
with a friend and his car went

874
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:20,480
off a bridge and into the water
of the city of Port Harcourt.

875
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:23,600
He said when I opened my eyes,
my 4 tires were up.

876
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:27,200
And he swam out of the car only
to realize that his friend was

877
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:30,040
still in it.
So he swam back and got his

878
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:32,680
friend out and neither had
sustained injuries.

879
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:36,080
And so they went to the police
station and the police station

880
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:38,200
said, well, you got to get the
car out of the water.

881
00:44:39,720 --> 00:44:43,320
He said, well, OK, so he said he
went down into the water again

882
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:46,880
and put a rope around the car
and he brought the car out and

883
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:50,440
just no big deal, I guess.
And he said, he said after that

884
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:52,600
he told himself, what are you
afraid of?

885
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:54,680
How can you be scared?
You have seen so much.

886
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:56,640
You come through this.
I think you should not be afraid

887
00:44:56,640 --> 00:44:58,720
of anything, is what he told
himself.

888
00:44:58,880 --> 00:44:59,840
Isn't that so?
Cute.

889
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:03,720
I know it just it just makes me
want to give him a hug.

890
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:08,080
And then he wanted to train as a
diver, but his older brother

891
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:10,000
said he was worried about his
well-being.

892
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:11,960
And he said don't do it, don't
do it.

893
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:15,360
However, he he took that kind of
to heart.

894
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:19,200
But in 2015, he and his wife
separated and he said I was

895
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:20,760
alone.
I didn't have children, I didn't

896
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:23,480
have a wife, not a good job.
I was frustrated just alone with

897
00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:25,320
my dog.
I was depressed.

898
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:26,680
But nobody knows.
He said.

899
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:31,520
Yeah.
And he said he felt more scared

900
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:33,520
of that experience than his time
underwater.

901
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:36,520
And he felt he would die if he
didn't act, You know, just do

902
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:39,120
something.
He said he had sat down and said

903
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:41,760
to himself, quote, I'm not going
into the ocean again.

904
00:45:42,240 --> 00:45:45,640
I would not be here today.
He's he decided that it just

905
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:46,880
wasn't.
That wasn't going to be his

906
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:47,640
truth.
He.

907
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:50,280
So he enrolled in a three month
diving course and told his

908
00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:53,320
brother when he completed it, he
didn't ask permission again, he

909
00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:55,680
just did it.
This quote of his I really

910
00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:58,240
liked.
He said I faced a lot of fears

911
00:45:58,240 --> 00:46:01,120
in my life and I decided to face
this once and for all.

912
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:04,320
I know it should be my fear, but
I don't need to be scared of

913
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:06,840
water because I need to embrace
my fear once and for all and be

914
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:09,000
strong.
Our happiness, our joy, our

915
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:10,560
future, they are all in our
hands.

916
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:14,120
I had to reprogram my thinking.
I balanced my mind.

917
00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:15,000
Who is?
This.

918
00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:17,520
Guy I know these people are
white.

919
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:20,440
Christmas, eight years on, it
said.

920
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:24,640
He is now 39, works as a diver,
installing construction, making

921
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:26,480
repairs to oil and gas
facilities.

922
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:29,480
Wow.
He did say, though, the maximum

923
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:32,320
death he can now go is 50
meters, and that's probably due

924
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:36,720
to some issues from having been
underwater at that point.

925
00:46:36,720 --> 00:46:38,920
And he now has a partner and
three children.

926
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:43,480
And he said the experience had
changed his life in so many

927
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:45,720
ways, the way he thought, the
way he sees life.

928
00:46:45,720 --> 00:46:47,640
He said it really improved his
life actually.

929
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:51,880
And he, he says this, I know
there's a God and the God is

930
00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:53,320
beside me.
I know that he has a great

931
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:55,280
purpose for me.
I always feel so comfortable and

932
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:58,360
guide myself.
I try not to offend anybody and

933
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:02,240
I try to trust life because when
humans are close to death, that

934
00:47:02,240 --> 00:47:04,120
is when they understand we are
all one.

935
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:07,720
Wow.
Yeah, he has a house by the lake

936
00:47:07,720 --> 00:47:09,960
now, but he's still trying to
save money to get a house by the

937
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:10,960
ocean.
Wow.

938
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:12,840
I know.
Cool.

939
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:14,160
Right?
Exactly.

940
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:18,040
So there's some questions that
come to mind, like how did the

941
00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:21,800
bubble last so long?
And this has been postulated,

942
00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:24,200
not necessarily completely
studied because they can't

943
00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:26,760
recreate all of the environment
or anything like that.

944
00:47:27,240 --> 00:47:31,120
But a person named Eric Hexdahl,
who's a nurse and a clinical

945
00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:34,720
director of diving medicine at
Duke Center for Hyperbaric

946
00:47:34,720 --> 00:47:38,520
Medicine Environmental
Facilities Physiology, say that

947
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:43,560
one time.
And he estimates that an area

948
00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:46,480
about 13 1/2 cubic meters,
roughly the size of the air

949
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:51,800
bubble that this man was trapped
in, a person has about 56 hours

950
00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:54,520
before carbon dioxide toxicity
sets in.

951
00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:58,880
Eric quoted was quoted saying if
you're trapped in something like

952
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:01,960
that, your carbon dioxide levels
will build to a toxic level

953
00:48:01,960 --> 00:48:05,080
before you use up the oxygen.
That would have been the first

954
00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:08,720
problem that Harrison would have
faced before running out of

955
00:48:08,720 --> 00:48:10,920
oxygen.
He was creating oxygen as he

956
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:13,920
breathed.
But also apparently there's more

957
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:16,600
carbon dioxide underwater than
on land.

958
00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:20,640
So it probably was more
exponential in the use and

959
00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:23,840
creation of carbon dioxide.
Yeah, I didn't know that he was

960
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:25,800
saying that.
There's different levels of

961
00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:27,560
toxicity.
And he talks about how many

962
00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:29,880
particles, which I'm not going
to bother mentioning because it

963
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:33,640
means really literally nothing
to the layperson, I imagine.

964
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:38,720
But the first thing is they
experience a buzz or a high, and

965
00:48:38,720 --> 00:48:42,480
then at the next level up they
lose consciousness pretty

966
00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:47,280
rapidly.
Hexdell estimates that Harrison

967
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:52,080
had started experiencing some
feelings of toxicity after 50-6

968
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:54,280
hours.
It would have taken about 79

969
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:57,000
hours for him to be unconscious
from the carbon dioxide.

970
00:48:57,600 --> 00:49:02,560
He was rescued after 60 hours of
being trapped right in the

971
00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:04,640
window of survival.
Because even if he had done

972
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:08,600
probably another 10 or so hours,
he probably would have died.

973
00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:10,800
For some reason, he was also
able to.

974
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:14,320
We talked about air pressure and
water pressure.

975
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:17,840
He was able to survive that for
some reason.

976
00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:21,560
Hextel said that under increased
air pressure, human blood

977
00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:25,560
becomes saturated with nitrogen,
and Harrison's nitrogen levels

978
00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:28,120
during his ordeal were much
higher than ours on the Earth's

979
00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:29,920
surface.
That I believe it's those

980
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:31,720
nitrogen levels that cause the
bends.

981
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:36,560
That's the thing exactly.
It's called nitrogen narcosis

982
00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:38,960
when we it happens when we're
under more than 80 feet of

983
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:41,960
water.
And he was 100, right?

984
00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:45,800
A swimmer can become days from
the level of nitrogen in their

985
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:47,920
brain.
And then, as you say, when they

986
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:50,360
go up, it affects the rest of
their body.

987
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:52,600
And they can literally die at
that point, too.

988
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:55,280
And that's again, why he was in
the decompression chamber.

989
00:49:55,320 --> 00:49:59,960
It's just wild to know that he
was able to survive this.

990
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:04,440
Hexel said that Harrison was
lucky to survive the ordeal.

991
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:07,800
And he said, this is a quote.
I don't know what it was.

992
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:11,280
It was divine Providence.
Wow.

993
00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:13,520
Yeah.
So I thought that was pretty

994
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:16,920
cool too, for heaven sakes.
And again, no, thank you.

995
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:20,880
However, I was pretty amazing.
And I don't think it was quite

996
00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:22,600
like the Titanic.
It wasn't.

997
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:24,120
There were no movies floating
away.

998
00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:27,480
There was nothing like that.
No hot steamy.

999
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:30,200
No hot steamy car.
Situations.

1000
00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:31,080
No.
I.

1001
00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:34,200
Didn't mention that at all.
That was so exciting.

1002
00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:38,200
My goodness.
The final one I have for us is

1003
00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:40,640
Mario Prosperi.
And this was an event that

1004
00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:43,960
happened in 1994.
Mario was running an ultra

1005
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:46,280
marathon through the Sahara.
No, thank you.

1006
00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:51,080
But OK, none of those words make
sense in my brain.

1007
00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:54,640
Yeah, he was blown off course by
a sandstorm.

1008
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:57,000
So they were literally running
through the Sahara Desert.

1009
00:50:57,000 --> 00:50:59,400
Oh, my goodness.
And an ultra marathon.

1010
00:50:59,720 --> 00:51:01,840
I mean, that's not just walking
across the street.

1011
00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:03,120
That's.
Nope, I don't even.

1012
00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:04,960
What is that's not?
Even I don't even know it's.

1013
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:08,560
Not even like a 5K like it's an
ultra marathon is probably.

1014
00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:11,720
If I had to guess, it's probably
like 3 marathon links or

1015
00:51:11,720 --> 00:51:13,920
something.
Oh well, actually, you know

1016
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:15,520
what?
I happen to have the fact on

1017
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:19,240
this right here.
Totally forgot that I had it and

1018
00:51:19,240 --> 00:51:23,600
this was 250 kilometers of
running.

1019
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:25,680
Oh wow.
And it was in extreme heat, of

1020
00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:29,000
course, because Sierra desert.
I I think that Sahara.

1021
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:31,080
Not Sierra.
What did I say, Sierra?

1022
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:32,120
Sierra.
Yeah, Sierra.

1023
00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:34,040
Desert.
The Sierra Desert.

1024
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:36,480
Yeah, that's the one, for
heaven's sakes.

1025
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:38,520
Yeah.
And they have some of their

1026
00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:41,400
dunes are three stories high.
Yeah.

1027
00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:44,080
There's just nothing about that
that sounds fun to me.

1028
00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:48,600
But Crossbury was a formal
former Olympian.

1029
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:50,640
He was one of the fastest
competitors.

1030
00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:53,560
He began to pass through a
section of the race that was

1031
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:56,600
dominated by small dunes.
And the sand around him, he

1032
00:51:56,640 --> 00:52:00,200
said, started to lift and swirl.
He said some small dunes, unlike

1033
00:52:00,200 --> 00:52:03,760
the big ones, lift and walk.
So they actually are all lifted

1034
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:07,720
up the sand.
Kind of a world wind of sand and

1035
00:52:07,720 --> 00:52:09,760
then put somewhere else.
So Can you imagine how

1036
00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:12,800
disconcerting that would be?
Yeah, I'm also wondering how

1037
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:17,720
they did they like pave the path
or is this guy running in sand?

1038
00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:21,080
They're running in sand, yeah.
It's crazy.

1039
00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:24,680
Mario said that at first,
watching the dunes move was sort

1040
00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:28,720
of mesmerizing because he said
he just watched it dance and

1041
00:52:28,720 --> 00:52:32,480
move around.
But then he just said it became

1042
00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:33,920
disconcerting.
He didn't know what was

1043
00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:37,080
happening and he faced a yellow
wall, he said.

1044
00:52:37,080 --> 00:52:40,280
He said I couldn't see anything.
The blue wind blew so violently

1045
00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:43,640
the sand hurt.
Yeah, guess you got great

1046
00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:46,440
axillation, Mario.
That's right.

1047
00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:49,600
Well, he started out as a 60
something and now he looks like

1048
00:52:49,600 --> 00:52:53,200
a 20 year old.
But at the beginning of the the

1049
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:57,280
race, the organizer given a talk
about how to take shelter in the

1050
00:52:57,280 --> 00:52:59,920
event of a sandstorm.
Because of course they happen.

1051
00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:03,720
And then and then they said if
they should get lost, they

1052
00:53:03,720 --> 00:53:06,160
should walk towards the clouds
that gather at sunset.

1053
00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:08,800
OK, not sure.
OK.

1054
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:12,240
But Prosperi said there aren't
many shelters in the desert.

1055
00:53:12,640 --> 00:53:15,000
In the middle of the dunes, it's
hard to find a place that will

1056
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:17,760
defend you.
And he said he kept trying.

1057
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:21,120
He kept moving and he kept
trying to shelter, but the sand

1058
00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:24,120
kept covering him and he moved
and sheltered again.

1059
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:26,680
And the storm took 7 hours to
pass.

1060
00:53:27,720 --> 00:53:30,200
Oh my goodness.
When it had gone, there was

1061
00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:32,400
nothing left to point his
compass at.

1062
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:34,920
He had no idea.
It took the sandstorm, took away

1063
00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:36,400
every point of reference, he
said.

1064
00:53:36,720 --> 00:53:39,400
And the landscape was completely
transformed.

1065
00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:42,680
Wow.
I mean, I can't even imagine it

1066
00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:45,280
look like anything useful
anyway, before it started, but

1067
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:49,160
afterwards, for heaven's sakes.
And he said his first instinct

1068
00:53:49,160 --> 00:53:51,960
was to run.
He said he had lost a lot of

1069
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:53,960
time and his thoughts were on
finishing the race.

1070
00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:56,680
Oh wow.
No, he said.

1071
00:53:56,680 --> 00:53:58,240
I hope to at least get in the
medals.

1072
00:53:58,720 --> 00:54:01,280
But it still struck him strange.
He said that he hadn't seen

1073
00:54:01,280 --> 00:54:05,000
anyone and this was an event
that was little known.

1074
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:08,080
There weren't a ton of people
and he did run mostly alone

1075
00:54:08,080 --> 00:54:09,760
because he was one of the
fastest.

1076
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:12,560
But he thought it was strange
that he hadn't seen any people

1077
00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:15,200
like walkers who might have
gone.

1078
00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:18,040
They started early.
The walkers started before the

1079
00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:21,120
runners, so I guess they could
sort of figure out how to

1080
00:54:21,120 --> 00:54:22,800
finish.
At the same time, he hadn't seen

1081
00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:25,800
any race markers.
He climbed to Dune as high as he

1082
00:54:25,800 --> 00:54:29,240
could be, didn't see anyone, and
he said this is his quote.

1083
00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:32,920
I knew that something was wrong.
Really.

1084
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:36,600
Imagine that.
Yeah, but then he said to

1085
00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:38,640
himself, well, he'll have a good
story to tell his friend

1086
00:54:38,640 --> 00:54:40,720
Giovanni, who was mostly walking
the course.

1087
00:54:41,160 --> 00:54:46,160
And he said the off schedule
night and lone in the Sahara

1088
00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:49,320
brought its own magic.
He said it was this is his

1089
00:54:49,320 --> 00:54:51,480
quote.
It was immediately fascinating.

1090
00:54:51,720 --> 00:54:54,520
You have the sky that is white
with stars that almost

1091
00:54:54,520 --> 00:54:56,440
suffocates you.
Oh, wow.

1092
00:54:57,160 --> 00:55:00,520
Yeah.
And now he's 71, and he said

1093
00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:04,120
that he had a fatalistic
understanding of death all his

1094
00:55:04,120 --> 00:55:06,400
life.
This is quote, I was convinced

1095
00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:08,240
that the end is already written
when you were born.

1096
00:55:08,680 --> 00:55:11,320
And he was a child in Rome.
And he listened to his

1097
00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:13,360
grandfather's stories of the
First World War.

1098
00:55:13,840 --> 00:55:18,600
And he said that maybe it was
that that embattlement in the

1099
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:20,280
fighting that had come to his
mind.

1100
00:55:20,280 --> 00:55:23,920
Now he said that his grandpa
told him that there was no water

1101
00:55:24,760 --> 00:55:28,280
during this the World War and he
he and other soldiers had drank

1102
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:32,240
their own urine to survive.
And he said well OK.

1103
00:55:32,520 --> 00:55:34,200
So he promptly peed in his
canteen.

1104
00:55:34,960 --> 00:55:36,160
OK.
And he?

1105
00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:38,080
Said it was he said it was clear
like water.

1106
00:55:38,080 --> 00:55:40,800
And he sure he he was sure he
wouldn't need it because the

1107
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:43,760
organizers will find them soon.
The next warning.

1108
00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:47,360
He kept running and he had faith
in the race and he said I was

1109
00:55:47,360 --> 00:55:49,480
just still such a competitor.
He said he knew.

1110
00:55:49,840 --> 00:55:54,600
He knew that he just needed to
keep going, and he didn't know

1111
00:55:54,640 --> 00:55:58,840
at that point that the
organizers had already started a

1112
00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:01,080
search.
He thought that in order to get

1113
00:56:01,080 --> 00:56:03,320
out, he would have to rescue
himself.

1114
00:56:03,800 --> 00:56:07,680
And he heard a helicopter.
This seems like another stay put

1115
00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:10,320
situation.
It kind of does to me, too.

1116
00:56:10,440 --> 00:56:13,080
He said he heard another
helicopter and he assumed it

1117
00:56:13,080 --> 00:56:15,280
came for him.
It flew really low.

1118
00:56:15,280 --> 00:56:20,240
He saw the pilot's white helmet,
but the pilot did not see him.

1119
00:56:20,840 --> 00:56:22,440
Oh, wow.
He said the runners have been

1120
00:56:22,440 --> 00:56:24,880
issued with flares.
They he said they were small and

1121
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:27,320
they were thin and they were
like a ballpark point pen.

1122
00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:31,200
And he shot us in the sky marker
in the sky and waved his Italian

1123
00:56:31,200 --> 00:56:33,680
flag.
So they kind of knew who he was.

1124
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:35,400
He said he ran after the
helicopter.

1125
00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:36,920
He shouted at him.
He called him.

1126
00:56:37,120 --> 00:56:39,720
He said he called him all kinds
of names, Paolo, Giovanni,

1127
00:56:39,720 --> 00:56:42,760
whatever name came to mind.
He said with the noise of the

1128
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:46,920
engines just were too loud.
And then he just had to watch it

1129
00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:51,000
go away, and then it was silent.
Wow.

1130
00:56:51,600 --> 00:56:54,640
That to me was probably
devastating.

1131
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:58,080
Yeah, I can't.
I Yes, I can imagine.

1132
00:56:58,360 --> 00:57:01,560
Sheesh.
And yes totally.

1133
00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:03,680
And he decided at that point he
better slow down.

1134
00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:06,240
So he slowed down to a walk
because it was going to be a

1135
00:57:06,240 --> 00:57:07,960
lengthy race.
He had some food but it was

1136
00:57:07,960 --> 00:57:11,320
dehydrated but he had no water,
could eat the food but it would

1137
00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:15,040
probably just dry him out more.
But he really ended up, of

1138
00:57:15,040 --> 00:57:17,920
course, needing to eat it
because he was out there for 9

1139
00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:21,320
days.
Yeah, and he said.

1140
00:57:21,360 --> 00:57:24,720
Talk about a sunburn.
Oh yeah, that too.

1141
00:57:24,760 --> 00:57:26,160
It was 9 1/2 days.
I'm sorry.

1142
00:57:26,160 --> 00:57:30,400
I said 9, I think.
And he said when that helicopter

1143
00:57:30,400 --> 00:57:33,520
went off and he was standing
there, he said that's when he

1144
00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:35,960
realized he was really, really
lost.

1145
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:39,560
Wow.
But he said he didn't feel fear.

1146
00:57:40,040 --> 00:57:43,880
He said.
I experienced a deep, consuming

1147
00:57:44,080 --> 00:57:47,600
serenity pucked with moments of
riveting anger.

1148
00:57:48,080 --> 00:57:52,280
Oh, OK, anger seems appropriate.
Yeah, for sure.

1149
00:57:52,320 --> 00:57:56,440
He said that all of the fighting
he had done and all that stamina

1150
00:57:56,440 --> 00:57:59,840
he had built from all his years
of sports and and racing must

1151
00:57:59,840 --> 00:58:02,160
have helped him.
And he had actually been, they

1152
00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:07,040
mentioned this year that he had
been a modern pentathlete since

1153
00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:10,520
the age of seven, but he had
been actively really a huge

1154
00:58:10,520 --> 00:58:13,840
sports person since he was 7.
So he was in way better shape

1155
00:58:13,840 --> 00:58:16,160
than most of us.
But also if you think about it,

1156
00:58:16,160 --> 00:58:19,880
he's also probably had less
physical reserves because he had

1157
00:58:19,880 --> 00:58:21,360
been running and running all the
time.

1158
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:24,200
So he probably didn't have fat
stores and stuff because it bet

1159
00:58:24,200 --> 00:58:27,880
his level of body fat was 0
percent or something like that.

1160
00:58:28,680 --> 00:58:30,960
And for his his history that
talked about the fact that he

1161
00:58:30,960 --> 00:58:34,280
had joined the state police when
he had come out of school and

1162
00:58:34,280 --> 00:58:38,800
was picked by the Fiam Oro
sports section that is run by

1163
00:58:38,800 --> 00:58:42,920
the state police force.
And then in 1984, he represented

1164
00:58:42,920 --> 00:58:44,640
Italy at the Los Angeles
Olympics.

1165
00:58:44,640 --> 00:58:46,640
And then he was in the world
championship the year after

1166
00:58:46,640 --> 00:58:48,240
that.
It doesn't say how he did.

1167
00:58:48,240 --> 00:58:51,480
So I guess he didn't medal or
anything, but just to get to

1168
00:58:51,480 --> 00:58:53,680
that point is pretty, pretty
amazing.

1169
00:58:53,680 --> 00:58:57,560
He says when you're going all to
win, you don't notice anything.

1170
00:58:57,560 --> 00:59:00,920
Well, he said I won Olympics in
World Cups, but he didn't look

1171
00:59:00,920 --> 00:59:02,760
around me.
He said as a professional you

1172
00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:06,160
have to do the race full stop.
You have to win full stop in the

1173
00:59:06,160 --> 00:59:08,120
desert.
I learned that it's really

1174
00:59:08,120 --> 00:59:11,120
important to look around you to
see what is happening, to know

1175
00:59:11,200 --> 00:59:13,600
the being next to you.
OK.

1176
00:59:13,960 --> 00:59:14,680
I know.
Oh.

1177
00:59:15,080 --> 00:59:18,720
By the way, this is a.
This is 6 marathons in a row.

1178
00:59:19,120 --> 00:59:21,280
It's ultra marathon is 6
marathons.

1179
00:59:21,280 --> 00:59:24,560
That's crazy.
That is crazy.

1180
00:59:24,560 --> 00:59:27,880
Thank you.
In Prosperi's case, the beings

1181
00:59:27,880 --> 00:59:31,920
next to him were sometimes
camels or a tree that

1182
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:35,840
interrupted the endless sand.
And he said one of the areas he

1183
00:59:35,840 --> 00:59:38,880
went with one of the trees.
He said the tree felt almost

1184
00:59:38,880 --> 00:59:42,040
like kin because he had so much
sand on his skin.

1185
00:59:42,040 --> 00:59:45,440
It was a kind of bark.
That's probably how he didn't

1186
00:59:45,440 --> 00:59:48,000
get to sunburn because he
probably because of all the

1187
00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:50,760
sand.
He said that climbing one of the

1188
00:59:50,760 --> 00:59:53,880
dunes on the second day last, he
saw a disturbance in the view

1189
00:59:54,280 --> 00:59:56,920
and he was convinced it was
somebody's home or holy man's

1190
00:59:56,920 --> 00:59:59,880
shrine.
But the shrine or mirabout was

1191
00:59:59,880 --> 01:00:05,280
empty and it was the only holy
man was in a sarcophagus.

1192
01:00:06,120 --> 01:00:07,880
Oh wow.
It really was a shrine.

1193
01:00:07,880 --> 01:00:10,800
And so he had at least he said I
had a roof over my head.

1194
01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:14,000
He put his flag up on the turret
to indicate that he was there.

1195
01:00:14,440 --> 01:00:18,040
And then he was inside and hear
the squeaking noise, like small

1196
01:00:18,040 --> 01:00:21,880
birds chirping, and there were
clusters of tiny bats that came

1197
01:00:21,880 --> 01:00:25,440
to the walls.
And he said I grabbed A handful

1198
01:00:25,440 --> 01:00:31,560
and squeezed him dead.
He cut off their heads, stirred

1199
01:00:31,560 --> 01:00:34,760
up the insides with their little
knife and sucked them out.

1200
01:00:35,240 --> 01:00:38,440
OK, yeah, well, I mean, it's
been a minute.

1201
01:00:38,680 --> 01:00:40,240
He repeated this with.
About 21.

1202
01:00:40,280 --> 01:00:41,760
I can't even eat crayfish that
way.

1203
01:00:42,640 --> 01:00:45,160
Well, you haven't been in the
situation probably, but yeah.

1204
01:00:45,360 --> 01:00:48,400
Anyway, he did this with 20 bats
and he said this way he felt

1205
01:00:48,400 --> 01:00:50,240
like he ate and drank at the
same time.

1206
01:00:50,560 --> 01:00:54,400
So he used the the fluids in
their bodies to rehydrate.

1207
01:00:54,400 --> 01:00:56,600
So that's.
So grossed out right now.

1208
01:00:56,960 --> 01:00:59,920
I know, I know, he said.
He saw them and he kept

1209
01:00:59,920 --> 01:01:02,520
thinking, I'll just eat them
raw, I won't need water then I

1210
01:01:02,520 --> 01:01:04,080
won't need water.
He said.

1211
01:01:04,120 --> 01:01:07,240
He just really thought about the
practicality of it over the

1212
01:01:07,240 --> 01:01:08,880
emotions because he just
couldn't go there.

1213
01:01:08,880 --> 01:01:13,920
His friend Giovanni was given,
it said to reflection and hope

1214
01:01:13,920 --> 01:01:16,600
through the ultra marathon to
get to know himself better.

1215
01:01:16,600 --> 01:01:20,160
That was his friend Giovanni's
goal, and Perspari said I don't

1216
01:01:20,160 --> 01:01:22,640
really do that.
I'm curious, didn't know

1217
01:01:22,640 --> 01:01:24,240
anything about it, he said.
I ate and that was it.

1218
01:01:24,480 --> 01:01:26,400
That was the only thing they
stank about.

1219
01:01:27,160 --> 01:01:32,600
I know the rest of us would take
a minute to get past the and

1220
01:01:32,600 --> 01:01:34,320
then I think about, oh, do they
have rabies?

1221
01:01:34,320 --> 01:01:35,840
Do they have something they're
caring or what?

1222
01:01:35,840 --> 01:01:37,440
I don't know.
But at that point, you know,

1223
01:01:37,440 --> 01:01:40,960
it's either that or die.
So I guess either you die now or

1224
01:01:40,960 --> 01:01:42,040
die later.
I don't know.

1225
01:01:42,040 --> 01:01:45,480
He said he took the shrine, the
bat remains out and buried them

1226
01:01:45,480 --> 01:01:47,720
because he felt like that was a
act of respect.

1227
01:01:47,760 --> 01:01:49,760
He didn't want to leave the dead
bodies in the shrine.

1228
01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:51,440
And also he wanted to respect
the bat.

1229
01:01:51,440 --> 01:01:55,000
So that was that was nice.
He said he just wanted to have

1230
01:01:55,000 --> 01:01:57,920
that ritual of civilization and
he said that's just how I am,

1231
01:01:58,280 --> 01:02:01,840
very ordered and things.
And it seems just to me if I

1232
01:02:01,840 --> 01:02:04,400
have to kill an animal to live,
I will bury the remains.

1233
01:02:04,400 --> 01:02:08,280
In October of 2022, he returned
to the spot with the Italian

1234
01:02:08,280 --> 01:02:11,160
television crew.
He went digging and he found all

1235
01:02:11,160 --> 01:02:13,640
the tongue skeletons.
Wow.

1236
01:02:14,760 --> 01:02:19,520
Yeah, yeah, he then he was in
there, that thing and he said

1237
01:02:19,520 --> 01:02:22,960
that he heard an aircraft and he
rushed outside to light a fire.

1238
01:02:23,280 --> 01:02:26,040
And I imagine he must have had
some sort of fire starter stuff

1239
01:02:26,040 --> 01:02:28,560
in his bag.
And he said he dug a hole and he

1240
01:02:28,560 --> 01:02:31,200
put all of his things in it.
Sleeping bag, rustic everything,

1241
01:02:31,200 --> 01:02:35,080
including plastic things because
he said that makes smoke.

1242
01:02:35,440 --> 01:02:38,160
But he said this.
Oh my goodness, Can you imagine?

1243
01:02:38,440 --> 01:02:41,720
Unfortunately, he said, as soon
as the lit another sandstorm

1244
01:02:41,720 --> 01:02:44,280
hit.
I felt so much anger in my body.

1245
01:02:44,560 --> 01:02:46,880
So they couldn't it wouldn't be
visible.

1246
01:02:47,240 --> 01:02:51,080
He waited 12 hours inside the
marabout for the storm to pass.

1247
01:02:51,560 --> 01:02:53,480
And then he made a decision.
He said.

1248
01:02:53,760 --> 01:02:56,840
Quote in Italy, if they don't
find the body of the presumed

1249
01:02:56,840 --> 01:02:58,880
dead, the family doesn't receive
a payout.

1250
01:02:59,440 --> 01:03:02,080
Since he was a policeman his
wife, they're now divorced,

1251
01:03:02,320 --> 01:03:04,200
would have been entitled to a
state pension.

1252
01:03:04,200 --> 01:03:08,000
They had three young children.
She had not wanted him to go and

1253
01:03:08,000 --> 01:03:10,400
he said I felt a bit guilty
about that.

1254
01:03:10,440 --> 01:03:14,880
He said if I walk he said
because if I walk towards the

1255
01:03:14,880 --> 01:03:18,320
clouds I don't know if I'll
arrive and if I die they will

1256
01:03:18,320 --> 01:03:20,320
never find my body in the
desert.

1257
01:03:20,320 --> 01:03:21,920
Within a few days everything
disappears.

1258
01:03:21,920 --> 01:03:29,320
Only skeleton remains, so he
really considered his options,

1259
01:03:29,320 --> 01:03:32,720
and he decided the only option
left was to cut his vein because

1260
01:03:32,720 --> 01:03:35,280
if he bled to death in the
mirror about his body would be

1261
01:03:35,280 --> 01:03:38,840
found because he wasn't out in
the sand and the pension would

1262
01:03:38,840 --> 01:03:40,480
be paid.
Wow.

1263
01:03:41,080 --> 01:03:44,760
Yeah, so he thought to himself
that slowly, slowly, he would

1264
01:03:44,760 --> 01:03:47,640
fall asleep and die.
He said it wasn't an act of

1265
01:03:47,640 --> 01:03:52,040
despair that he was considering,
but it was just the product of

1266
01:03:52,040 --> 01:03:54,480
his anger and acuity.
He's realized that's just what

1267
01:03:54,480 --> 01:03:59,080
he had to do because he wanted
his death not to be useless, I

1268
01:03:59,080 --> 01:04:01,160
guess.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1269
01:04:01,160 --> 01:04:03,200
And he said he only had one
little knife.

1270
01:04:03,200 --> 01:04:07,560
He said he did try to cut
himself, but because he was so

1271
01:04:07,680 --> 01:04:12,320
dehydrated, the blood clot so
fast it couldn't flow out.

1272
01:04:12,320 --> 01:04:15,200
Yeah.
Sorry, so it's like for.

1273
01:04:15,200 --> 01:04:18,400
Heaven's sakes.
And so he said, quote, I

1274
01:04:18,400 --> 01:04:21,640
thought, this is not my moment.
I'm not to die here.

1275
01:04:21,640 --> 01:04:24,320
I will head towards the clouds.
So remember they said head

1276
01:04:24,320 --> 01:04:26,560
towards those clouds.
And that's where.

1277
01:04:26,560 --> 01:04:29,360
Sunset I remember.
That's where he was going.

1278
01:04:29,400 --> 01:04:31,800
And this is funny.
This is a quote.

1279
01:04:31,960 --> 01:04:34,280
This is a segment out of the
article which made me laugh.

1280
01:04:34,640 --> 01:04:38,200
It wasn't exactly a celebration
tipple, but it was at this point

1281
01:04:38,200 --> 01:04:40,760
he drank his urine.
Oh goody.

1282
01:04:42,640 --> 01:04:44,960
And he said from that moment he
did everything he could just

1283
01:04:44,960 --> 01:04:46,360
survive.
He ate what he found.

1284
01:04:46,520 --> 01:04:50,160
He ate mice and snakes, and he
squashed everything up in a

1285
01:04:50,160 --> 01:04:52,000
little cup I found in the
mirabout.

1286
01:04:52,320 --> 01:04:55,320
And he ate large ants, chewed
leaves, and cut the backs of his

1287
01:04:55,320 --> 01:04:57,600
running shoes to relieve the
sores on his heels.

1288
01:04:57,600 --> 01:05:02,840
He did not indicate that he ate
that, but he said sometimes the

1289
01:05:02,840 --> 01:05:05,360
only thing that kept him company
was the hiss of the wind.

1290
01:05:05,400 --> 01:05:07,160
He kept walking towards the
clouds.

1291
01:05:07,800 --> 01:05:10,600
And then over the next six days,
he said he really looked around

1292
01:05:10,600 --> 01:05:13,120
himself.
He had to, he said, to live.

1293
01:05:13,520 --> 01:05:17,520
He said, I saw fantastic
panoramas and an enchanted

1294
01:05:17,520 --> 01:05:19,440
valley, like a giant dry
estuary.

1295
01:05:19,840 --> 01:05:22,280
There were two canals in the
middle and mound of stones, like

1296
01:05:22,280 --> 01:05:23,600
a castle.
That isn't it.

1297
01:05:24,440 --> 01:05:27,560
Just to be able to even
appreciate anything at that

1298
01:05:27,560 --> 01:05:30,800
point seems amazing.
And he said that he had learned

1299
01:05:30,800 --> 01:05:32,040
something.
He didn't fear death.

1300
01:05:32,040 --> 01:05:35,120
He said it's the suffering that
makes you scared.

1301
01:05:35,680 --> 01:05:38,720
And he said if you don't feel
suffering, you don't feel fear.

1302
01:05:38,720 --> 01:05:41,120
And that makes sense because if
he's not suffering, I mean, he

1303
01:05:41,120 --> 01:05:43,920
just, it's kind of a realization
that it's going to happen and so

1304
01:05:43,920 --> 01:05:45,560
hopefully.
I mean, and he had the

1305
01:05:45,560 --> 01:05:50,120
wherewithal and the, and the
willingness to eat what he saw.

1306
01:05:50,120 --> 01:05:52,560
I mean, I again, I don't know
that I would do that.

1307
01:05:52,560 --> 01:05:55,600
I don't know that I could suck
the blood out of a mouse and eat

1308
01:05:55,600 --> 01:06:02,040
its raw flesh like.
Yeah, yeah, I know for sure.

1309
01:06:02,040 --> 01:06:03,680
This is a cool quote I liked
from him.

1310
01:06:03,680 --> 01:06:05,920
I lived with death, arm in arm
next to me.

1311
01:06:05,920 --> 01:06:07,840
Every day.
Death became a friend of mine.

1312
01:06:08,000 --> 01:06:10,600
It was close to me, was with me
always.

1313
01:06:10,600 --> 01:06:13,680
Every day I look to survive.
And death gave me company

1314
01:06:13,680 --> 01:06:16,480
positively, not even negatively.
It gave me the force to

1315
01:06:16,480 --> 01:06:20,560
strength, not to succumb.
And he said that he felt like he

1316
01:06:20,560 --> 01:06:24,120
survived where others may not
have because of his previous

1317
01:06:24,120 --> 01:06:27,480
training and, and his desire to
live and normalizing anything

1318
01:06:27,480 --> 01:06:30,280
that he could.
And he said, I encourage myself

1319
01:06:30,280 --> 01:06:33,760
to see the positive and the
chance to know more, more

1320
01:06:33,760 --> 01:06:36,240
profoundly the parts of the
desert that are around.

1321
01:06:36,240 --> 01:06:40,160
I believe that my
brother-in-law, James Lawrence,

1322
01:06:40,160 --> 01:06:43,520
would probably be this way.
He's has his flaws and whatever,

1323
01:06:43,520 --> 01:06:46,680
but I I really believe that if
he were in this situation, he

1324
01:06:46,680 --> 01:06:50,280
would have the same point of
view and he would probably eat

1325
01:06:50,280 --> 01:06:55,600
rats and mice and back brains
and all of that and know that

1326
01:06:55,600 --> 01:06:58,760
walking towards the clouds would
get him somewhere.

1327
01:06:58,760 --> 01:07:03,760
I mean, like I said, I I just he
seems like the type I so I can

1328
01:07:03,760 --> 01:07:05,560
kind of relate to that I guess
is my.

1329
01:07:05,600 --> 01:07:07,320
Point.
Yeah, I imagine.

1330
01:07:07,320 --> 01:07:11,080
I think it takes a certain kind
of individual to these intense

1331
01:07:11,360 --> 01:07:13,800
physical things anyway.
Yeah.

1332
01:07:13,920 --> 01:07:16,880
Which a lot of us aren't.
But he said that one day he

1333
01:07:16,880 --> 01:07:20,520
spotted small things moving in
the distance and he just thought

1334
01:07:20,520 --> 01:07:22,680
there were some more camels.
I guess there's wild camels that

1335
01:07:22,680 --> 01:07:26,720
run around there.
And yeah, it's just, it'd be

1336
01:07:26,840 --> 01:07:29,320
very odd, but they have to come
from somewhere, I suppose.

1337
01:07:30,800 --> 01:07:33,400
But when he got closer, he
realized they were goats, and

1338
01:07:33,400 --> 01:07:38,040
goats mean civilization.
He said it was about 20 meters

1339
01:07:38,040 --> 01:07:39,320
away.
When he saw that they were being

1340
01:07:39,320 --> 01:07:41,840
herded by a girl.
He had reached a Berber

1341
01:07:41,840 --> 01:07:44,520
settlement.
His quote was I understood then

1342
01:07:44,800 --> 01:07:47,960
that I was reborn.
I had been in the desert 9 1/2

1343
01:07:47,960 --> 01:07:49,800
days.
I felt I'd been inside the belly

1344
01:07:49,800 --> 01:07:52,320
of the desert.
Like pregnancy, I was born anew.

1345
01:07:52,560 --> 01:07:55,600
OK, good for you man.
Yeah, the Berber families had

1346
01:07:55,600 --> 01:07:58,080
given him goat's milk but
vomited it right up because it

1347
01:07:58,080 --> 01:08:01,040
was too much after the days of
deprivation and dehydration he

1348
01:08:01,040 --> 01:08:05,920
felt at that moment in time he
was approximately 43 kilograms,

1349
01:08:06,120 --> 01:08:08,600
or 95 lbs.
Wow.

1350
01:08:09,560 --> 01:08:11,640
Yeah.
And at that point, he was taken

1351
01:08:11,640 --> 01:08:14,880
blindfolded by the military
police to a base.

1352
01:08:15,320 --> 01:08:17,439
Yeah.
Basin Tunduf, later to the

1353
01:08:17,439 --> 01:08:20,120
hospital where he was there for
a week in intensive care.

1354
01:08:20,240 --> 01:08:22,399
And the reason was because they
thought he was an agent.

1355
01:08:22,600 --> 01:08:24,160
They thought he was a spy of
some sort.

1356
01:08:24,359 --> 01:08:27,040
They.
I mean, that's a rough job as a.

1357
01:08:27,160 --> 01:08:30,120
Marathon number on his shirt.
Like, come on.

1358
01:08:30,120 --> 01:08:33,920
Man, Yeah, well, you know, and
he said that until they found

1359
01:08:33,920 --> 01:08:36,920
his race papers, they thought he
was some sort of a spy, he said.

1360
01:08:37,000 --> 01:08:39,000
Suspicious.
That's like ultra paranoid

1361
01:08:39,040 --> 01:08:41,640
y'all?
It is well, and maybe they have

1362
01:08:41,640 --> 01:08:44,800
a reason for it, I don't know.
He was from Rome and when he

1363
01:08:44,800 --> 01:08:46,279
returned.
Rocco, by the way.

1364
01:08:46,319 --> 01:08:49,359
He had walked to Algeria.
OK, so this is Algeria.

1365
01:08:49,359 --> 01:08:51,120
Wow.
OK, because the race starts in

1366
01:08:51,120 --> 01:08:52,080
Morocco.
Yeah.

1367
01:08:52,080 --> 01:08:55,760
And so it's that 250 kilometers,
I think they said, right.

1368
01:08:55,880 --> 01:08:57,840
They had to have been markers to
mark the path.

1369
01:08:57,840 --> 01:09:01,600
But for his sake, this is wild.
And if they know the wind blows

1370
01:09:01,600 --> 01:09:04,120
like this, it seems like.
They want to totally.

1371
01:09:04,479 --> 01:09:05,960
Do something about it, but I
don't.

1372
01:09:06,080 --> 01:09:08,399
Know also if the wind blows like
that I feel like you should just

1373
01:09:08,399 --> 01:09:11,319
sit down and wait and maybe, I
don't know sure.

1374
01:09:11,600 --> 01:09:13,880
Surely the race markers are
windproof right?

1375
01:09:13,880 --> 01:09:16,560
Are sandstorm proof?
I would think so.

1376
01:09:16,880 --> 01:09:19,040
I mean, it seems kind of
important.

1377
01:09:19,640 --> 01:09:22,279
There's a YouTube video of a
couple doing this marathon and

1378
01:09:22,279 --> 01:09:25,720
I'm now curious to watch it
because I'm curious just like,

1379
01:09:26,200 --> 01:09:28,560
what do the markers look like?
What do the sandstorms look

1380
01:09:28,560 --> 01:09:29,319
like?
What you know.

1381
01:09:29,479 --> 01:09:32,200
I mean, yeah, I don't know.
But when he finally returned to

1382
01:09:32,200 --> 01:09:35,080
Rome, he was taking
photographers were taking

1383
01:09:35,080 --> 01:09:38,240
pictures of him and his wife.
And one of the sports

1384
01:09:38,240 --> 01:09:42,319
journalists had asked him, so
will you do the marathon then?

1385
01:09:42,520 --> 01:09:45,760
And he said, I always finish my
races.

1386
01:09:46,200 --> 01:09:46,960
Oh my.
Goodness.

1387
01:09:48,080 --> 01:09:50,680
So you gained the strength and
two years later he returned to

1388
01:09:50,680 --> 01:09:53,680
run the marathon and that was in
1997.

1389
01:09:54,000 --> 01:09:59,120
And he completed the race 9 more
times after that, the last time

1390
01:09:59,120 --> 01:10:03,680
running in 2017.
I know and this is a quote of

1391
01:10:03,680 --> 01:10:06,240
his.
I say to a lot of people, if you

1392
01:10:06,240 --> 01:10:10,040
really want to understand life,
you have to go to the desert, he

1393
01:10:10,040 --> 01:10:13,160
said people often associate the
desert with death because

1394
01:10:13,160 --> 01:10:15,800
there's just nothing really
viable looking there.

1395
01:10:16,280 --> 01:10:17,640
But he said this is a quote,
too.

1396
01:10:17,640 --> 01:10:20,360
If you have a life that you
can't interpret, you become

1397
01:10:20,360 --> 01:10:23,560
alone.
And he said after he survived,

1398
01:10:23,560 --> 01:10:26,160
everything felt amplified.
My love of nature, my love of

1399
01:10:26,160 --> 01:10:28,840
sport, the will to do, the will
to love life.

1400
01:10:28,840 --> 01:10:30,640
He then retired from the police
force.

1401
01:10:30,640 --> 01:10:33,600
And he had been working as a
fencing coach and Olympic

1402
01:10:33,600 --> 01:10:35,480
coordinator.
You know, like fencing is on

1403
01:10:35,480 --> 01:10:37,600
guard.
And then he apparently had

1404
01:10:38,000 --> 01:10:40,240
divorced at some point, and he
married for the second time.

1405
01:10:40,320 --> 01:10:44,400
And that would've been 2001, I
think.

1406
01:10:44,400 --> 01:10:47,160
He's now a grandfather.
And he continues to set himself

1407
01:10:47,160 --> 01:10:50,360
challenges, such as kayaking
around the coast of Sicily,

1408
01:10:50,360 --> 01:10:53,160
where he lives now.
He says he's waiting for the

1409
01:10:53,160 --> 01:10:55,440
right moment to tell his
grandchildren how he survived.

1410
01:10:56,040 --> 01:10:59,480
Wow, not not the telling his
grandchildren about how he

1411
01:10:59,480 --> 01:11:01,320
survived part.
That reminds me of my dad.

1412
01:11:01,640 --> 01:11:06,560
My dad is dad's 79 in October,
and he's still doing stuff like

1413
01:11:06,560 --> 01:11:12,960
hiking 3 miles up the mountain
with one bottle of water and

1414
01:11:13,000 --> 01:11:16,080
stuff like that.
But yeah, I mean, he's not doing

1415
01:11:16,080 --> 01:11:17,920
ultra marathons.
He is definitely.

1416
01:11:18,120 --> 01:11:21,280
He definitely has that same
attitude of live life and joy.

1417
01:11:21,280 --> 01:11:26,200
Nature and age is just a number.
Yeah.

1418
01:11:26,200 --> 01:11:28,680
And I agree.
And also I think he's among

1419
01:11:28,680 --> 01:11:30,880
people who believe that when
it's his time, it's his time.

1420
01:11:30,880 --> 01:11:31,960
It doesn't matter what he's
doing.

1421
01:11:32,560 --> 01:11:34,840
I think that matters.
I think people who do some of

1422
01:11:34,840 --> 01:11:37,120
these extreme things think that
way.

1423
01:11:37,160 --> 01:11:39,680
They're just like, well, if,
when it's my time, I'm going to

1424
01:11:39,680 --> 01:11:42,200
do it whether I'm sitting on the
couch or I'm up on Mount

1425
01:11:42,200 --> 01:11:44,920
Kilimanjaro, and I may as well
do what I want, right?

1426
01:11:45,480 --> 01:11:48,760
And my dad, Once Upon a time, I
think my dad was in his late

1427
01:11:48,760 --> 01:11:53,640
40s, early 50s maybe, he had a
guy in his Mormon ward, so in

1428
01:11:53,640 --> 01:11:57,200
his congregation that was in his
70s and was still skiing every

1429
01:11:57,200 --> 01:11:59,160
day.
And I remember him telling me

1430
01:11:59,160 --> 01:12:02,800
how much he admired this man
like that he was skiing at age

1431
01:12:02,800 --> 01:12:03,680
70.
Whatever.

1432
01:12:04,360 --> 01:12:06,960
And my dad was not in the
greatest health at that time.

1433
01:12:06,960 --> 01:12:11,560
You know, he'd had severe ulcer
and he'd had he had Osgoode

1434
01:12:11,560 --> 01:12:13,960
Schlatter disease in his knees.
We'd had several knee surgeries.

1435
01:12:14,320 --> 01:12:17,880
It really clearly, clearly
inspired him because again, my

1436
01:12:17,880 --> 01:12:21,200
dad is 17, almost 79 years old
and he's still skiing.

1437
01:12:21,200 --> 01:12:25,400
Ski season comes, he goes, he
fishes all the time, he hikes

1438
01:12:25,440 --> 01:12:28,120
all the time.
Like he he is the man that he

1439
01:12:28,120 --> 01:12:30,600
admired 30 years ago.
You know what?

1440
01:12:30,600 --> 01:12:30,760
I.
Mean.

1441
01:12:30,760 --> 01:12:32,400
Isn't that amazing?
I think it.

1442
01:12:32,560 --> 01:12:35,760
Really is.
That each of these stories

1443
01:12:36,120 --> 01:12:39,680
indicate in them the moment
where the person decided they

1444
01:12:39,680 --> 01:12:43,080
just had to do it, they just had
to somehow survive.

1445
01:12:43,360 --> 01:12:46,160
And it seems like it's.
Kind of comes binary, right?

1446
01:12:46,160 --> 01:12:48,080
It's like live or die.
Those are the choices.

1447
01:12:48,320 --> 01:12:51,160
So which one do I choose?
Yeah, and the stories I've seen

1448
01:12:51,160 --> 01:12:53,360
of survival, of course, you
don't see the survival stories

1449
01:12:53,360 --> 01:12:55,640
that they didn't survive, right,
'cause then that's a bummer.

1450
01:12:55,720 --> 01:12:58,400
Why actually we do see those.
But still, these are the stories

1451
01:12:58,400 --> 01:13:00,760
that we get more details.
And I think the way people go

1452
01:13:00,760 --> 01:13:03,680
through the process of sometimes
they're just angry, sometimes,

1453
01:13:03,760 --> 01:13:05,760
sometimes they're devastatingly
sad, things like that.

1454
01:13:05,760 --> 01:13:10,120
But in their moment, they
decide, OK, I've got to do

1455
01:13:10,120 --> 01:13:12,040
something.
To me, that's the message of

1456
01:13:12,040 --> 01:13:15,680
these stories is that we, moment
to moment, need to decide what

1457
01:13:15,680 --> 01:13:17,760
we're going to do, how we're
going to behave, how we're going

1458
01:13:17,760 --> 01:13:20,880
to contribute.
And I think when we don't,

1459
01:13:20,880 --> 01:13:24,200
that's when, as Prosperia had
said, that's when we're lost.

1460
01:13:24,640 --> 01:13:26,440
Yeah, they're the stories of
survival.

1461
01:13:26,880 --> 01:13:28,800
Very cool.
Very, very cool.

1462
01:13:28,880 --> 01:13:31,520
All right, if you've made it
this far, clearly you like a

1463
01:13:31,520 --> 01:13:33,200
little mayhem with your
medicine.

1464
01:13:33,520 --> 01:13:36,000
Or you just enjoy hearing us
ramble about weird medical

1465
01:13:36,000 --> 01:13:38,200
mysteries.
Either way, we'd love you for

1466
01:13:38,200 --> 01:13:40,400
it.
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1467
01:13:40,400 --> 01:13:41,840
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1468
01:13:41,960 --> 01:13:43,960
And toss us a rating or review
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1469
01:13:44,240 --> 01:13:46,800
Helps other curious weirdos find
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1470
01:13:47,520 --> 01:13:49,600
And we know there are a lot of
you out there.

1471
01:13:49,880 --> 01:13:52,440
Oh so many.
Come join the chaos.

1472
01:13:52,480 --> 01:13:55,640
Thanks for listening to
Medicine, Mystery, mayhem, and

1473
01:13:55,640 --> 01:13:58,280
sometimes Murder.
Do you have an idea for an

1474
01:13:58,280 --> 01:14:01,200
episode of this podcast?
Just want to say hi?

1475
01:14:01,520 --> 01:14:04,560
You can get in touch with us at
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1476
01:14:05,040 --> 01:14:11,520
That's OURM
thenumberfourpod@gmail.com.

1477
01:14:12,120 --> 01:14:16,040
We read every e-mail, and
sometimes we even respond just

1478
01:14:16,040 --> 01:14:19,280
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Because we are old.

1479
01:14:19,280 --> 01:14:23,720
Friends with new twists and lots
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