Ep. 3: Russian Mountain High, Dyatlov

0:00 Welcome to M4 Medicine, Mystery, Mayhem, and sometimes Murder. Our podcast explores the chilling intersection of mystery, true crime, and medicine. Each episode explores. Shocking cases where healthcare professionals have crossed the lines into criminal behavior or where medical knowledge has been used for nefarious purposes. We cover a range of topics from prescription drug related murders to poisoning and other healthcare related crimes or mysteries. Our goal is to provide listeners with a mix of gripping true crime stories and insightful medical information, shedding light on how common, and sometimes not so common, medications and medical practices can turn deadly. We also delve into the backgrounds of both victims and perpetrators, uncovering the twisted plots and psychological factors behind these crimes.

0:47 While we are both experienced nurses, we want to make it clear we are not here to give medical advice. This podcast is about. Storytelling, education and exploration. Not diagnosing or treating medical conditions. If you're fascinated by mysteries and want to uncover the dark side of medicine. Our podcast is for you. Hey Crystal, how are you doing? I'm doing well. How are you? And fair to Midland, thank you very much for asking. I've caught the dread summer cold and I believe my charming son gave it to me and that I have not appreciated very much. It was really, It really knocked me down, man. I don't believe you. As you may recall, I had a pretty bad cold a couple weeks ago that definitely knocked me down. Took my voice.

1:34 Took your voice. I've just become froggy and I'm sounding better today. The thing that's crazy is my partner Max, who believes in nutrition, as long as it's primarily made of sugar, said, well, my fault. My problem is he and our granddaughter have not gotten sick. And he said the problem is you don't need enough sugar. So I'm sure, I'm sure that's medically supported. Yeah. Hey, he's, he's sick way less than I am. I'm starting to think he might have something going there. We'll have to look into it in one of our podcast episodes. Definitely sugar versus health. That's right. Well my feeling is I work to keep myself healthy and if I didn't, all these things that I have had, sheesh, would have killed me. Definitely first world problems we're suffering from here. Definitely.

2:19 Sheesh, sheesh. Well, hey, so what's our topic for today? I'm really. Excited to share this topic. I'm curious to know if you've heard of it. I may pronounce a lot of things wrong because it happened in, Oh my gosh, I want to say Russia, and now I'm scared that might not be true in the Northern Urals. I may pronounce some things wrong. Well, since my pronunciation is always amazing, we'll do the best we can. I'm going to do the Diaotab pass incident, have you heard of that? I don't believe I have. I'll go to my sources. Dead Mountain by Donnie Eicher, The Diaotab Foundation, Russian Case Files, National Geographic, BBC News, and the New York Times Today's mystery takes us deep into the snowy wilderness of Soviet Russia in 1959.

3:09 I thought it was Russia where 9 experienced hikers set out on an expedition into the Ural mountains and never returned alive. You know, there's people to go on these expeditions and they climb up Everest and they all keel over. I am not at all interested. Thank you. Very much. I'm not interested either, but this one is nothing like that, so Yup. So it's the Diatol Pass incident. A Cold War enigma, frostbitten footprints, baffling injuries, missing eyes and a tent shredded from the inside out. Missing eyes. Buckle up. So let's begin by meeting the group. There were nine students and graduates from the Ural Ural. I don't know how to pronounce that. I'm so sorry.

3:54 Ural Polytechnic Institute in Spurred Levusk now Yekken Terenberg, all whom were passionate about mountaineering. The leader was a man named Igor Dyatlov. He was 23 years old. He was an engineering student and an experienced trekker. He was known for his discipline, intelligence and calm leadership. He had already completed difficult expeditions and was developing a radio device in his spare time. Friends considered him quiet, responsible and a natural leader. The team that went with him there was This is where it's going to get pretty hairy on the pronunciation, so my apologies again.

4:36 Zanada Komengorova, 22 Outgoing and cheerful, she had completed numerous hikes and once fought off a thief with a ski pole. The Edmila Dubenina, strong willed and principled, previously sustained A gunshot wound on a hike and still completed the trek. Yuri Doroshenko Oh, did I say Ludmilla was 20? I don't think I did. So no. But wait back up. It was on this trek that she got a gunshot. Just these are just their like this is just an introduction to who they are and how they're cool with hiking. Oh, so like their biographies? Yeah, yeah. They're biographies, Yeah. Gotcha. Yeah, so Zenaida was 22, Ludmilla was 20. Yuri Doroshenko was 21. Yuri once chased a bear with a geologist hammer on a previous expedition.

5:25 He was brash but brave. There was Rustom Slobodan, 23, a runner and hiker, calm and methodical, and from an educated family. Alexander Kolavetov, 24, studying nuclear physics. Quiet and enigmatic, with a K GB adjacent background. Nikolai Tebow Brignolis, 23, a half French of noble lineage. Gregarious, smart and athletic. 1/2 French. I didn't mean to say it like that, that sounds awful. He was half French from noble lineage. My apologies, I'm going to stop apologizing. Yuri Krivanishenko, 24 Nicknamed Georgie, he was a construction engineer who worked at the Kaixin nuclear disaster cleanup. Semyon Zolotariov 38, The oldest and the most mysterious. He was a World War 2 veteran who joined last minute. He was tattooed, secretive, and physically robust. 1 Member Yuri Yudin turned back early due to sciatica. He would later say it saved his life and haunted him for the rest of his life.

6:42 For the rest of his life, yeah. Did you mention when this occurred? 1959. Oh, I was going to say because the World War Two, wait one which? Two World War Two, World War 2 and then 46. OK, I wasn't sure how how long ago this was my group. 'S goal was to earn a Grade 3 hiking certificate, the highest at the time. The route would take them through challenging terrain in the northern EUR, aiming for Mount Oderton, a name that translates from the indigenous Mansi language, to Don't Go There. That should be enough. Right. Message receipt. They departed by train on January 23rd, 1959, then by truck and eventually on foot. Spirits were high.

7:28 Their diary entries and photographs showed them joking, skiing, building makeshift stoves. On January 31st, 8 days later, they cashed supplies in the forest for their return journey. By February 1st, they were on the slope of Colat, Seattle, Which Mansi means mountain of the dead. Lots of signals that kind of maybe they should have paid attention to. But you know, often people see things like this as a challenge, right? Like, Oh yeah. Sounds like foreshadowing now though. Yeah, right. Due to worsening weather and poor visibility, they pitched their tent high on the slope rather than descending to the shelter of the trees. This was their last known action.

8:09 So this was by February 1st. When the group failed to send word by February 12th, so that's 11 days later. No one panicked. At first, delays were common, but as days passed, families pushed for a search. 14 more days later, on February 26th, 1959, rescuers went out and found the tent. And what they saw sparked one of Russia's greatest mysteries. Here's what they found. The tent was cut open from the inside. There were footprints, some barefoot, some in socks or a single shoe that led away into the snow.

8:50 At the forest edge, under a cedar tree, lay Krivonishenko and Doroshenko. Doroshenko, shoeless and in underwear, with burned hands. A small fire was nearby, between the tree. In the tent lay Dietlof, Kulmongorova and Slobodan, appearing to have died trying to crawl back. It wasn't until May that the remaining 4, Zola Taryov, Dubenina Kolovatov and Tibo Brunolis, were found in a ravine beneath 13 feet of snow. Their injuries were shocking. Dubenina, her tongue and eyes were missing. Yeah, I'm sorry.

9:35 I laughed because I'm stressed, not because I think it's funny. Zolotariov. Massive chest trauma like in a car crash. Tibow Brignolis had a crushed skull. Some of the some of the hikers were pieces of other people's clothing that they had possibly taken after death. There were no external wounds and no signs of struggle. So consider that. Tongue and eyes missing, no external wounds. Massive chest trauma like in a car crash, no external wounds. Crushed skull, no external wounds. Like what? Yeah, I'm having vague memory of hearing the story before, but so so as as you're saying it, that means he had a a he or she, the individual had a crushed skull from it wasn't obvious from the outside, but it was this on autopsy or something? I imagine it was on autopsy.

10:33 Yeah, just wasn't there. Yeah, It wasn't obvious from the outside. It had to have been from autopsy. Yeah, 'cause I mean, there's no crushed skull I've ever seen that didn't have some sort of sign. Right. It's crazy. Crazy. The official cause, a compelling natural force. That was it. Case closed. Case closed. I Yeah, sure, that explains everything for heaven's sakes. Let's dive into the most widely discussed explanations, the official theory. So there's the official cause and then there's an official theory. I don't know what differentiates the who's who the officials are that are declaring these official, but I imagine probably the Russian government is the official cause declarer. I don't know about the theory.

11:19 And that's always been very open. Right. So the official theory is that it was an avalanche. So they assumed that a sudden avalanche scared the hikers. They slashed the tent to escape and disoriented in the dark, they succumbed to the cold or fell into the ravine. However, there are some problems with that. No avalanche debris was found. The slope was not steep enough for them to fall in disorientation. The tent was intact and upright, so if it had an avalanche come, it would have smashed the hell out of the tent, Right? And Dial Dialogue's team were seasoned hikers. They wouldn't panic over minor snow slides or possibly even major snow slides, but in this case it couldn't have been a major snow slide because there was no evidence of that, right? Additionally, those injuries, the chest injury and the head injury would still show external 'cause if they've been crushed by snow even.

12:21 I mean, The only exception I guess could be if the pressure got so intense so slowly that it broke things really slowly and then maybe that wouldn't show a big external injury, but still. I mean, I, I, this is all theoretical and I have no evidence of this other than my imagination. But I suppose theoretically you could be preserved, so to speak, by the cold of the snow. But it can be heavy enough that maybe just the pressure would cause a skull fracture that wouldn't necessarily. And not even a skull fracture was crushed. So I don't know, man. It's. Yeah, and also, if they were frozen, their blood wouldn't come out like normal.

13:02 So I'm thinking kind of of a vise. If it goes slow, slow, slow, slow and will cause the compression, but maybe maybe slowly enough given snow pressure where this should have really been snow, then it could perhaps fracture and crush things without external showing. And again, if their blood was frozen, they wouldn't bleed everywhere, but it still seems like their skin would separate. But anyway, carry on. What's the next? OK, next theory is infrasound and that's a where that's a rare weather pattern called the Carman vortex St. which causes low frequency sounds. And infrasound can cause panic, nausea and hallucinations. And this could explain why they may have fled in confusion, but not the crushing injuries, right? So they had some low frequency sounds that made them panic, that made them hallucinate.

13:55 Maybe you know, who knows they I mean, but you know, you consider a missing eye and a missing tongue. They hallucinate that happen. Yeah, right. I just what? I don't know. I don't know. And I, I don't believe they found the eye in the tongue. I don't quote me on that, but I I believe that it was just missing. Is there any indication of what elevation they were at? Could they have been hypoxic? Lacking oxygen? I didn't see anything other than it was, you know, don't go there. Yeah, again, enough for me.

14:35 A mountain of death. Don't go there all righty. All righty on my way. Going to lunch now. Yeah, I don't know the, I don't know the elevation. That would be interesting too. I mean 'cause there's a lot. Again, it doesn't explain everything 'cause you can't get hypoxic and have crushed everything but. Yeah, still OK. The next theory is military testing. The area was used for weapons testing. Witnesses later reported orange orbs in the sky and some of the hikers clothing showed radioactive traces. You know that avalanche that's radioactive? Yeah, well. I just saw one yesterday. Orange orbs, huh? Yeah. So could they have wandered into a classified test zone? Probably not, because there were no blast injuries or any military tracks.

15:24 Again, pretty unlikely. Next we have catabatic wind, which is sudden violent winds like those in Antarctica. They could cause localized collapse of snow, panic and freezing. Matches some elements, but again, doesn't explain the injuries. I mean, the injuries, the injuries and the, the radioactivity are what get me the most, right? Well, actually, and also the fact that they slice their way out of the tent and there's just so many. Obviously the reason this is a mystery, mysterious story is because there's so many crazy details there. There's a theory that they were attacked by the indigenous Mansi people, you know, locals, Indigenous folks would know the terrain. Maybe they viewed the hikers as intruders. But that one's been solidly rejected because there was, again, no sign of a struggle.

16:14 And the Nancy people helped in the search and we're respectful and peaceful. So that was that. One was quickly rejected. Paradoxical undressing and hypothermia. As people freeze, they may feel overheated and remove clothing, which would explain the state of undress, but it doesn't account for again, the tongue removal or the crushing injuries. I looked I was looking this up on on one of the websites and it said one of them had missing eyebrows. So not the one that had missing eyes, no, but somebody else had missing eyebrows. That makes no sense at all, no. It does not make any sense. Of course they have the there. There's always the conspiracy theories. So some people theorize that it was a Yeti or encrypted or. What encrypted?

17:02 Encrypted. Yeah, encrypted is like werewolves are cryptids. The Loch Ness Monster is encrypted. Bigfoot's encrypted yetis are cryptids. So they're mythical creatures that we that are in our legends basically. How do people believe that cryptids are real? I don't have an opinion one way or the other to be honest. This this theory was fuelled by a satirical student newspaper that was titled Evening O Torton. I don't know what that means, but another theory is that they were there was murder or internal conflict.

17:49 Like I said earlier in the show, Zolotariov was a last minute addition with war experience and some suspected confrontation. No defensive wounds, no motives, no evidence. There's nothing really to support that theory. Well, and what would he have to gain right there? It's. Not even notoriety, because it was notoriety. He'd he'd probably admit to it, right? Like right So. And he, he was dead. And he had, he had one of the worst injuries, no. No, he's the one that didn't. That didn't. Oh, wait, you're right. Sorry, sorry. Wrong guy. Yeah, he he was. He's a last minute addition.

18:31 Udin was the one who left the injury, I mean. You're Udin? Yeah, he left the injury. Right. Some of the questions that this raises are, of course, why were there signs of radiation? Why were some corpses missing eyes and tongues? What caused such localized brutal trauma with without external wounds? Oh, Diaries and cameras were missing pages. I didn't include that. So why were these cameras and Diaries missing pages? This is very strange and I mean did no one brought up the alien theory? No, actually, no one did.

19:12 I feel like it was aliens. So did they ever get further information to make any kind of real opinion or these are just wild opinions like ours? So they so they reopened the investigation in 2020, but then they just closed it again and with the avalanche theory. But that doesn't even make any sense. No how? I mean, so the tongue, the purse's tongue, did it say how that looked? I mean, did it look like maybe the person had chomp chomped it? Bitten it. I don't know the. I don't know exactly how it looked well in. Here I.

19:54 Think there are pictures? Oh really? Because in here what I'm reading it says she was missing her tongue? It doesn't even seem part she was missing her tongue, eyes, part of the lip as well as facial tissue and a fragment of skull bone. Yeah. OK, that's bad. Yeah, So what I, I think a lot of people theorize that it was supernatural. There just really isn't 1 singular explanation that that can explain exactly what happened. OK, so let's talk about this for a second. Our government, the US government has disclosed that they are aware of and have samples, I guess of, of aliens, right?

20:42 So we know that we're not alone in the universe, so to speak. So one reasonable theory potentially is that it was some sort of paranormal, otherworldly situation where, I mean, who? I don't know. See, this is where it gets tricky for me because like, maybe aliens don't know how to interact with us. You know, you think of you can think of probably some movies. I can't think of anything brought off the top of my head, but where, you know, they're trying to be peaceful that things go awry, right? So maybe there maybe there was an encounter and it just went horribly awry because they didn't know how to interact, slash communicate with humans. I don't know.

21:29 Well, and I mean, if we were going to go with that theory, there could be, well, weapons and forces that we have no idea how they work that could have caused some of this sort of stuff. Wow, either. Way, it was a really bad day. It was a really bad day. Yeah. One of the last photos that was taken the day the on the on February 1st at the final camp was showed the team smiling and setting up camp. One of the final entries in their diary jokes about their luxurious accommodations and the wind howling outside. And then nothing. Wow, sounds like a really good job, a really good reason not to go hiking. Actually, I really like I like hiking and things like that.

22:10 But Gee whiz. And I see in in the article I found here, it's the a view of the tent. What's funny is it was cut from the inside. Now if you think about it in the 50s, I don't think they had, you know, they didn't have the same fancy tents that we do now. A lot of them were just flaps like a military type tent. And this tent looked like it could have been that. I wonder if it even had a zipper. I don't know because. A lot of them used to be ties and that's all they were. Yeah, You know, it's funny because Holly talks all the time about how the tent that we Holly is my sister, in case I haven't mentioned it before that I lived with. She was just mentioning that the tent we have now, it's literally like squish, squish, pop and it's up. Right.

23:01 Exactly. And we grew up with the military tents where it was like 7000 poles, 8000 and a just a canvas that kind of went over the poles and then. It was. So heavy, it was so heavy. And judging by the pictures from this incident where it is only collapsed it and it's only it's 1959, right? Like that can't be a very sophisticated tent. No. But it was, it was, I mean, I don't know if I had zippers, but it is. It does, you know, bear remembering that they had sliced their way out and one thing I read said shredded their way out not even sliced. When you think of sliced you think like cut cut maybe, but the the tent was shredded.

23:50 Well, I remember, I can't remember where I heard the story before. I hadn't recognized it when you first said it, but when I first heard it described, I had visions of like scissorhands sort of ripping. And I don't see it in this picture that it looked like that. But it was also covered in snow, the picture I see. And so where it would have collapsed later by snow, but it was, it was what, almost a month later? They went to look for them. You said 24 days. Yeah, it wasn't until their family demanded it that they even made any effort to to go to. Find them. Yeah, well, well. And, and The thing is, these people too were of. Pretty.

24:33 Significant conditioning. I mean, it's not like you and I walked out there. It it, it was people who really knew what they were doing. Yeah, they were very, very skilled, very experienced. And like you said, for them to panic doesn't make sense, especially all at one time. What could they have heard that they could have all panicked at the same time? And then we think of some of our episode, other episodes where they had some general hysteria, potentially due to waterborne illness or something like that. Brings that to mind to me too. Except for that still doesn't explain missing tongue. Eyebrows, ball eyeballs.

25:15 I mean, eyebrows, What I can see tongue. Maybe somebody went insane and thought there was something wrong with their tongue or their eyeballs. But their eyebrows. And their lips. How would that even I mean even even lips. I could see if you got really upset and. Started shooting on it, yeah. Or something like that. And some of the injuries they said might have been post mortem, but not all of that. And there was no sign that I can see that had a lot of they didn't say anything about a lot of animal tracks or anything like that to explain some of the missing parts cause animals do go for stuff like that. But it didn't mention anything about that.

25:56 If they were, it was that cold, they probably would have frozen faster than the animals could sense them. But but even still, given all of that, if they had some sort of brain amoeba or something, it would still not explain an internal head injuries, skull injury that would kill someone. That doesn't make any sense. No, no one explanation gives all of this. That's exactly the that's the quandary is that there are a lot of there are a lot of explanations that cover one set of the facts, right Avalanche. They got scared. They cut themselves out of the tent, they ran, they fell, whatever, right?

26:37 I mean, again, that's not necessarily supported by evidence, but that's the official story. I mean, it's the thing even about Christians, right? Like there'd be footprints, there'd be blood, for heaven's sake. I would think unless, unless we like go in back into the realm of the supernatural, super supernatural, because I guess Kryptons in and of the cells can be considered supernatural. But you know, maybe maybe cryptids have a have a way bloodlessly smash a skull. I don't know it's. Just well, and, and the thing, the thing too is it's in the 50s. It's not like it was 1800 where they didn't have any way to look into this stuff in the 50s isn't that long ago.

27:21 Well, not only that, the fact that they reopened the investigation in 2020 and then they were like, Nope, Yup, still an avalanche K bye. A lot of experts have said that that was that was a sham investigation basically. Who did the reinvestigation? Did it say? Russia. Oh, well, there you go. I mean, sorry, did I say that in my outside voice? Well, well, it's safe to say that you probably cannot. We as U.S. Citizens probably cannot necessarily trust the integrity of the Russian government well. They're probably saying the same about us right now. They probably do. Oh, wait, did I say that in my outside place? One of the things, though, that makes me wonder is why did they open the investigation again in 20, Even if it was sort of a sham, Did did it say why?

28:12 Because what would have motivated that? I think it was just people demanding answers and I think that they were saying that, you know, we have more technology now, we just have more information. And so let's so actually people went in part of the investigation, people went out to the to the past again. And that's how part of how they came to their conclusions. Like who were the researchers? I don't know. Right. Seems really suspicious to me. Looking at arstechnica.com Just as I'm looking this up and in 2019, the Russian public, I'm reading this from this arstechnica.com In 2019, the Russian Public Prosecutor's office resurrected the case from its archives.

28:58 That's when Johann Gaum, who heads the Snow and Avalanche Simulation Laboratory at EPFL in Switzerland, received a call from a New York journalist looking for insight into the mystery. The call was the first Gam had heard of the Dyatlov Pass incident, and he's immediately intrigued after singing if he is thinking and doing calculations down to the journalist that he believed. The most slight explanation was in that lunch hit while the hikers were sleeping, catching them by surprise. The Russian prosecutor's office had reached the same conclusion. Given the lack of evidence and the various strange elements in the case, Gam decided to partner with Alexander Puzrin, a geoengineering ETH Zurich, to investigate more deeply.

29:41 The two men combed through the public archives, consulted with other scientists, and ultimately developed 2 distinct models to reconstruct the avalanche. They believe it occurred in February 1959. There's an analytical model to estimate the time required to trio an avalanche avalanche, while a numerical model estimated the effect of avalanches on the human body. Gam and Prusreen published their findings in January 2021 in Communications, Earth and Environment. The duo attributed the Dietlof past tragedy to a slab avalanche, which occurs when a bonded layer of snow, the slab, is lying on top of a weak layer over a sufficiently large area. Slab avalanches can be triggered when there is a slope angle of at least 30° and when an additional load is added to the top layer.

30:31 A slab avalanche could explain both why the hikers left their tent and some of the injuries they sustained. Gowman Cruisering also concluded that the 1959 avalanche did not occur until several hours after the Diet Lab group had made a cut in the snow covered slope to set up camp. The most crucial factor was the influence of so-called cadabitic winds, which we talked about air down the slope under the force of gravity. These winds cause snow to accumulate uphill above the tent, which is one of the required elements for a slab avalanche. If they hadn't made a cut in the slope, nothing would have happened. Pooserine said last year that was the initial trigger, but that alone wouldn't have been enough. The tatted back wind probably drifted the snow and allowed an extra load to build up slowly.

31:18 A certain point a crack could have formed and spread, causing the snow slab to release. But I still want to know why there's no evidence in Avalanche. Also, if you think about it, all of these pictures show them partially buried in snow. None of them show the bodies completely buried. And if it really were an avalanche, well, I guess they could have been rolled out by then, but they were near their tent. So that doesn't make sense either. Because to me, if I have a giant avalanche that's enough to kill all these people all at the same time, then there would be a lot of snow. There would be distance that these people were pushed or or rolled and they wouldn't have been within, I don't know, meters of their tent, I wouldn't think. And even 14 days later, or I mean 2024 days later, the pictures show a lot of snow still, but not enough to have covered everything.

32:12 And it's still clearly was frozen. It's not like summer happened. Right, right. Because we also know time of year that's so. Weird. It's really weird. Well, I guess it's still a mystery, but it doesn't sound like anyone else is going to look into it. No, I think I mean conspiracy theorists and I don't say that to be derogatory, but you know, there are people who are still wanting to look into it. There's a whole website dedicated to to they people researching it. I believe it's I believe it's Diet labpass.com. Let's see here. Yeah, there's a ton of books written. Yeah. And so I mean, it's just, I just where's the radiation from?

32:58 Where are the burns from? So like I know that they said there was a small like campfire area by them, but like were they were they like warming by the fire and got pushed in? I mean what I don't. Know Well there's one picture I don't know how real this is, but there's a picture I just saw about the incident where somebody was buried their head in the snow and the rest of their body sticking straight up out of the. Snow. Oh wow. So that makes no sense either. No. I mean, and he's got snow on parts of his body, but he's not covered in snow.

33:40 This is crazy. Yeah. Well, and, and that sound they were talking about, I guess even if they got confused, it just doesn't make sense that they would all get get so confused at the very same moment that they would rush out. And then some of them in a Creek, some of them up above and the ones in the Creek were missing their parts, which some people said was post mortem. But even that I just I personally believe it's aliens. OK. I mean, I guess maybe, I don't know, I got carnivorous fish in the Creek fish.

34:21 Barracuda, yeah. I don't know. It's so it's I am 5050 on conspiracy theories. Like there's something I'm like, there's some there's some meat on that bone and then there's somewhere I'm like, oh, brother, right. I'm not going to specify necessarily which is which because that's too controversial for this podcast. Right. But but yeah, this one, I'm like just, it's just too disparate, you know? Right. It's just. No. One easy answer. Exactly. Take a look in the chat and while I'm trying to send you a picture that I just found that could support the avalanche theory, it's it's in our Google Chat.

35:11 So listeners, this this picture shows a tent like the ones that they probably had and multi levels of ground, including there's the surface and then there's a weak layer of snow and then a top snow and then a a wind slab. And So what there's what in this picture identifies that the snow probably was higher. This is where it supports the avalanche theory and that it it would have crushed through and then pushed them out. But the way this looks it still doesn't. I still can't see it though even. I guess if they started to hear the snow crack then maybe they'd want to start getting out.

35:54 But the way the picture looks, it looks like the snow is just at the tent and not beyond. And I get that this is just a graphic, but in the picture above on the right there, the tent center has snow on it, but it still doesn't look like enough to have completely. Well, not enough to be. Carried an. Avalanche. Yeah, not yeah, exactly it looks like because. The tent posts are still above the the level of the snow. Right. Right. And I could see if they were all dead in the tent, right? And that I could believe the avalanche theory and even The thing is, I cannot believe it's just like you said, it supports part of each one of their injuries potentially, but none of it explains all of it at one time.

36:42 Right. It's ever since I heard of it, I'm like, wait, what? So it's one of our it's I think it's a good topic. So it is. What do you think, listeners? What do you think? Let us know anyone ever heard of this mystery and who raise your hands? Who wants to go hiking on the mountain in avalanche zone at this moment? I do not. I do not anything called Death Mountain. I'm out. Although I have gone hiking. I have summited mountains in Utah, but not during avalanche season. I have never actually. I did go camping a few times when it was snowy out to go deer hunting because my birthday of course is deer hunting season which is when we always used to go camping. I've been in tents there but I would not go anywhere extreme for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is camping outside in the winter is enough extreme for me. Oh my gosh, I don't even know if. I mean, I've probably camped outside in the winter ever because of who my dad is, but I don't know that I've ever. Well, I guess I have done it on purpose as an adult, but it's not my favorite.

37:57 On purpose, I accidentally went camping. Oh my goodness. Well, good talk, BIC. Thank you. And you know, some mysteries will never be solved, at least to my satisfaction. Agreed. Agreed. It's funny, I used to when I was younger. So one of the things I was raised within my religion is I mean, I think this is true of most of Christianity, but is that you'll have the you'll see your entire life in front of you, but God will be watching also or something to that degree. I would picture as a child. I would picture this literal like projector projecting my entire life and I used. To oh, you mean when you die or something? Yeah, you die.

38:40 Sorry, sorry. I suffer. I suffer with context. Lack of context itis. Lack of context itis. That's an official disorder we'll study later. Anyway, so like that's kind of what I visualize, right? Like this, this projector with the two film canisters on it was projecting my my life while God watches and I watch. And I remember one of the things I took away from that was I am going to remember exactly how this such and such thing happened. So maybe when we're watching, when we're watching our videos of our lives, we'll be able to see what happened at the Diet Love Pass. There you go, 'cause I'm sure that'll be on my reel. No, I I'm thinking my reel's long enough that I won't need anyone else's reel's going.

39:28 That's probably true. Oh my goodness. Well, on that note, thanks Crystal. We'll look forward to our next topic. Do you have an idea for an episode of this podcast? Just want to say hi? You can get in touch with us at our M4 pod. That's OURM the #4pod@gmail.com. We read every e-mail, and sometimes we even respond just like real professionals. Because we are. Old friends with new twists and lots of body bags.