Ep. 29: Breathe In, Breathe Out

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Welcome to M4 Medicine, mystery,
mayhem, and sometimes murder.

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I'm Andrea Marciano and RN with
35 years of experience across

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various fields.
From direct patient care in

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hospitals to home health,
geriatrics, and injury medicine,

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I face life, death, and
everything in between.

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And I'm Crystal Miller and RN
with 13 1/2 years of experience.

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My work spans home health,
Hospice, emergency care,

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geriatrics, and occupational
health.

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From the chaos of trauma based
quiet moments with patients,

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I've seen stories that defy
explanations.

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We've been friends for over 25
years and as nurses we've shared

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countless stories that have left
us and our families speechless.

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Now we're bringing those stories
and many more to you in

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medicine, mystery, mayhem, and
sometimes murder.

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Each week, we'll uncover cases
that challenge the boundaries of

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medicine, sharing the human
stories behind the science.

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From puzzling medical mysteries
to shocking real life crimes,

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we'll bring you stories that'll
leave you questioning everything

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you thought you knew while.
We're both experiencing these

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nurses.
We want to make it clear we're

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not here to give medical advice.
This podcast is about

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storytelling, education and
exploration, not diagnosing or

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treating medical conditions.
This is medicine, mystery,

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mayhem and sometimes murder.
Let's dive in.

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Hey Crystal, how are you?
I've been better.

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Yeah, I'm a little sick.
Well, I'm, I'm a little sick

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now.
I was a lot sick about a week

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ago.
I slept through last Saturday,

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like slept all the way till 6:00
PM, woke up, was awake till

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about midnight, and then slept
all the way until the next day.

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And the next day I woke up, I
was sick as a dog, sore throat,

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just so super tired, super
fatigued.

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I thought, but this is COVID.
So I took a test and Yep, it

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sure was.
Yeah, I think a lot of people

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think that COVID has gone and it
hasn't.

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I think it's now becoming more
of what we live with, but it's

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certainly.
It's honey, you should say that

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because somebody apropos of
having COVID suggested that I do

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COVID for my topic.
And you said?

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That and that it was a really
brilliant person.

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There's advice I take all the
time.

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All the time.
I'm so glad to hear that, says

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the brilliant person, in case
anyone's unclear.

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Well, dear listeners, Crystal
has a really fascinating episode

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for us for.
What for COVID and I'm recording

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it.
It's a meta episode because I'm

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recording it with COVID so.
Yay, way to research the topic.

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Fortunately, none of you can
catch COVID from listening to

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this episode, so you're.
I'm really glad and actually

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listeners, our last episode
recording was cancelled because

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Crystal was unconscious for her.
COVID, that is true.

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He was deep into her research.
Great.

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Well, let's hear what you found
out after you started feeling

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better.
All right, So sources are pretty

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standard what you'd expect when
you're we would expect as nurses

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who've done a lot with COVID the
world horse.

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Wow.
Wait, I'm sure you were going to

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start with Wikipedia though.
The World Horse Organization.

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Horses.
Yeah, good.

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That's.
No, the World Health

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Organization or The Who, the
Centres for Disease Control and

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Prevention, CBC, couple of peer
reviewed journals, Nature and

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The Lancet, and then the
National Institutes of Health,

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which is NIH and Johns Hopkins
Coronavirus Resource Center.

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A lot from Johns Hopkins.
I actually got certified by

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Johns Hopkins as a COVID
special.

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I don't know what it was called
anymore.

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I did.
I don't remember that.

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I sure did.
I, yeah, I, I took the training

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and so I set up all of the
contact tracing, all of the

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gosh, all of the monitoring of
illnesses and symptoms.

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There was one more we did.
No, I was writing the heck out

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of protocol during that.
Yeah.

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Oh yeah.
Yeah.

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Well, I was the one researching
that protocol for you.

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Yes, I didn't realize that I was
too deep, knee deep in anyway.

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So what are we saying now?
Well, I'll tell you.

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So.
If I asked you what your COVID

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started, what year would you
say?

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I would say the end of 2019 for
this variance.

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You would be correct, but also
wildly wrong because COVID

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didn't just start a pandemic, it
broke time.

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There is before and there's
after, and there is a weird

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foggy place in the middle where
nobody remembers what day it

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was.
Everyone owned at least one pair

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of emotional support sweatpants
and sourdough starters had

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names.
So COVID-19.

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Where did it come from?
What did it do to our bodies?

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What it did to our society and
how it quietly moved on,

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rearranged the furniture and
became part of our our cultural

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DNA is our topic for today.
Of it.

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And by the way, my sourdough
starter has been around for a

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lot longer than COVID.
I don't have a sourdough

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starter.
I didn't jump on that wagon.

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I'm afraid I'm not I've.
Been doing it for 30 years.

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Neither did I, but I stayed on
the wagon for 30 years.

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Nice.
I have some rising right now

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beside me.
Nice.

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I wish I could have some sour
sourdough bread.

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I don't want the starter.
Yeah, that's true.

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It is actually the bread that's
rising.

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Come on over I.
Want to be clear, this isn't a

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hot take episode, it's not a
conspiracy episode, and it's

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definitely not a remember when
Tiger King existed nostalgia

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real.
So yes, that definitely did

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happen.
This is about history, medicine,

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collective trauma, and the
strange, uncomfortable truth

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that we are now living in a
world where COVID is just here.

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So take a breath, refill your
coffee, your whiskey, your

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water, whatever it is.
Let's talk about the virus that

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changed everything.
So start with the basics,

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because the basics got weirdly
political.

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And that's not how viruses work.
COVID-19 is the disease, The

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virus that causes it is called
SARS COV 2 or SARS Dash COV Dash

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2.
And right away, that name should

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ring a bell for those of us in
the scientific community, in the

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medical community, because SARS
isn't new.

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Coronaviruses are a family of
viruses.

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Some cause mild colds, some
cause gastrointestinal illness,

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and some, unfortunately, decide
to go absolutely feral.

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So SARS COV 2 is a novel
coronavirus, meaning humans had

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not encountered this specific
version before.

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And when a virus is new, the
immune system doesn't have a

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CHEAT SHEET, no memory, no
antibodies and standby, just

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vibes and panic.
Some of the things that I that I

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heard at the beginning of the
before it was declared A

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pandemic.
So like you said, COVID,

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actually COVID-19, I want to be
specific, actually started in

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the end of 2019.
There was a lot of curiosity and

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conspiracy and those sort of
things of where the where this

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specific coronavirus have come
from.

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It's called a coronavirus, by
the way, because it actually is

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the virus itself is shaped a
little bit like a crown.

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So it's a it's a round circle
and it has these spiky bits that

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come off of it to kind of, and
so they've just named viruses

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with that general shape.
They call them coronaviruses.

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They are all in a family.
They're shaped that way because

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they're related.
It's not like any virus that has

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some sort of spikes coming off,
but but they are related.

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So that's Corona.
Some of the silly things that I

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heard that people were dead
serious about at the beginning

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of the COVID-19 experience.
Again, some of it before a

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pandemic was declared, some of
it after.

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One of the things that I heard
is that coronavirus could be

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caught from drinking Corona
beer, for example.

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I'm dead serious.
Oh my gosh, I never.

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Heard that, That's really
awesome.

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So I don't know, I didn't, I
didn't even think to do any

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research on whether or not
really run a company lost money

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during this.
Oh, I thought.

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You meant by drinking beer.
I did plenty of that research

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as.
A matter of fact.

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As a matter of fact, funny
story, I really did start buying

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Corona beers for a while because
I was like, I'll help you out

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little buddy, I know, I know,
it's not you.

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That's hilarious.
I have never heard that rumor.

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Another thing I heard was if
it's COVID-19, what happened to

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181716 ad nauseam, right?
And dear listeners, it's called

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COVID-19 because it was
discovered in 19, no, in 2019,

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that's it's just name or it's
birthday.

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What's interesting?
Like you say, is that so many

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people thought that COVID was
just appearing at that moment

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and it just hadn't been a big
push because it hadn't become a

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pandemic.
Right.

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Well, it's interesting because
he was your boss at the time

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when my current boss was
actually in China in the at the

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end of 2019.
And he had brought back a bunch

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of pictures.
So it was just starting to show

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up in China.
We'll get to it.

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But it originated in the Wuhan
province of China, right?

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And so he was there were these
pictures of people in the

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airport and the lengths they had
gone to to separate themselves

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was really fascinating.
And have you told me upon seeing

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those pictures that this virus
was going to spread from China

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to anywhere?
I would have been like, no way,

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man.
These guys are like pros that

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nobody's getting nothing from
nobody.

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But that's not the case.
Obviously, we experienced it,

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those of us that were.
I hope that everybody listening

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to this for the live during the
crown of pandemic, because

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otherwise you're really young.
That's for sure.

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So.
Young an audience yet?

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I mean, I guess I shouldn't say
I hope not.

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We're clean, we're clean cut and
they can learn stuff.

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So sure, 6 year olds want to
listen.

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Yeah.
So those were some of the the

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crazy things I heard.
Another thing that just drove

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me.
There were a lot of people who

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for whatever reason, just could
not wrap their brains around the

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name COVID Odyssey's boyfriend,
for example, her boyfriend at

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the time, no matter how many
times we corrected him, it was

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always Covis.
And it was like Covis.

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Like COVIS.
Like, what?

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What is that?
Why are you saying that's not

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it?
And so it was just, it was

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really surprisingly dividing
topic of conversation.

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And again, why why of a virus, a
scientific something so akin to

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every flu virus we've ever seen,
you know, the ones that we get

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the flu shots for and all that.
Why it became so divisive, I

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just can't even, I can't
imagine.

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I don't know.
It's more divisive once it was

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declared A pandemic.
And I know that there was a lot

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of opinions on how it was
handled by the presidential

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administration, and we'll get
into that, really.

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We spoke before we went on air
listeners about how we could

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approach political things
without becoming a political

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podcast.
If you want any specific ideas

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about our political leanings,
please reach out to us

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individually, but we will keep
this at a strictly professional

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and as scientific level as we
can.

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But there were a lot of
political things that happened

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in political leanings that
started what our current

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environment may be reflecting.
Yeah, As far as the origins of

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this specific coronavirus, there
are things we know and there's

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things that we don't know.
You know, we'll talk about why

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that matters.
The strongest evidence supports

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A zoonotic spillover, meaning
the virus jumped from animals to

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humans.
Now, this is not rare, it's not

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exotic, and it's not suspicious.
Ebola, HIV, influenza, SARS, one

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MERS, all animal to human jumps.
Most evidence points to bats as

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the original reservoir with a
possible intermediary animal and

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early spread associated with a
live animal market in Wuhan,

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China.
Now, because we live in the

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Internet age, I need to say this
clearly.

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Science does not work on vibes,
gut feelings, or YouTube

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thumbnails with Red Arrows.
Multiple international

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investigations, genomic
sequencing, and epidemiological

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studies show no evidence of
genetic engineering, no markers

229
00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:07,000
of lab manipulation, no designer
virus fingerprints.

230
00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:09,880
Could a lab accident ever happen
in the world?

231
00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:13,280
Sure.
Humans are human, but this virus

232
00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:16,480
behaves exactly like what it
appears to be, A naturally

233
00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:19,360
evolved pathogen that found a
perfect storm of conditions,

234
00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:24,680
high population density, global
travel, delayed detection, and a

235
00:12:24,680 --> 00:12:27,480
world that assumed that could
never happen here.

236
00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:29,960
Spoiler alert, it absolutely
can.

237
00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:33,880
But Crystal wait, didn't you
know that our government was

238
00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:37,920
funding research into
coronaviruses in Wuhan, China in

239
00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:39,280
a lab?
And they were.

240
00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:44,320
The research in the lab was
trying to modify coronaviruses.

241
00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:47,000
Yes, I did know that.
And guess what?

242
00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:50,200
They were funding experiments
like that in thousands of places

243
00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:55,240
around the world.
So did a lab accident happen in

244
00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:59,360
that lab in Wuhan, China?
Maybe, but is there a giant

245
00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:03,360
government conspiracy theory?
I mean, maybe, but it's

246
00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:04,680
unlikely, right?
Like.

247
00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:07,040
The truth of the.
Matter is the markers aren't

248
00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:07,600
there.
Yeah.

249
00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:10,760
The truth, The truth of the
matter is it more than likely

250
00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:14,560
jumped from bats to humans or
bats to an intermediate from

251
00:13:14,560 --> 00:13:18,840
bats to an intermediary animal
that may have been at the live

252
00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:23,040
live animal market in Wuhan.
Now, are live animal markets

253
00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:26,240
inherently dangerous?
No, they're not.

254
00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:30,560
You know, I think a native of
Wuhan, China would probably fare

255
00:13:30,560 --> 00:13:33,720
better in a live animal market
or eating food from a live

256
00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:36,600
animal market just based on,
like we were talking about

257
00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:38,120
before, antibodies and that sort
of thing.

258
00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:40,840
But that has nothing to do with
the coronavirus.

259
00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:42,360
That's just like, my opinion
man.

260
00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:45,720
That's just a different culture
and that doesn't make it wrong.

261
00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:46,920
It's.
Just like I wouldn't eat street

262
00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:49,200
food in India because I don't
live in India.

263
00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:52,360
It has nothing to do with any
judgement or anything, you know?

264
00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:55,280
I just know that I don't live in
India.

265
00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:58,960
I don't think I can
constitutionally handle it

266
00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:01,720
right.
Well, and there's street food in

267
00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:03,360
this country that I wouldn't
eat.

268
00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:04,720
True.
That's very fair.

269
00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:05,400
That's true.
There's.

270
00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:08,640
Some things that I just wouldn't
eat because of a caution and

271
00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:11,640
being aware of how germs happen,
yeah.

272
00:14:12,680 --> 00:14:14,400
Yeah.
Anyway, So what more is there

273
00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:15,680
about what we're?
So let's talk.

274
00:14:15,680 --> 00:14:18,480
About how it spread and why it
was so effective in spreading.

275
00:14:18,680 --> 00:14:22,120
Like I said, SARS COV 2 is a
respiratory virus but it had

276
00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:28,120
three unfair advantages against
US1 Asymptomatic spread, meaning

277
00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:32,360
that people were contagious
before they felt sick, which is

278
00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:33,680
really rude.
Coronavirus.

279
00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:38,000
Yeah, and it's very common
actually, for incubation period

280
00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:40,640
for people not to feel poorly.
And that's one of the things

281
00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:42,520
that Max and I were talking
about yesterday.

282
00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:45,600
We're talking about the spread
of measles right now.

283
00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:47,640
And how could people travel when
they're sick?

284
00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:49,240
And I said, well, they don't
know they're sick yet.

285
00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:50,720
Yeah.
Or they don't know they were

286
00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:52,520
exposed yet.
Same sort of idea.

287
00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:54,200
Well.
If you compare coronavirus,

288
00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:56,160
COVID-19, no, it's the disease.
I don't know.

289
00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:58,400
OK, I'm just going to call it
this coronavirus.

290
00:14:58,400 --> 00:14:59,960
How's that?
Because I don't want to keep

291
00:14:59,960 --> 00:15:03,920
saying SARS COV 2 sounds like
I'm a robot about speaking

292
00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:05,800
gibberish.
So but I also don't want to just

293
00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:07,480
say coronavirus because there
are multiples.

294
00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:09,200
So I'm going to say this
coronavirus.

295
00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:12,200
If you compare this coronavirus
to, for example, Ebola, where

296
00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:15,760
symptoms are dramatic and fast,
this was something someone

297
00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:18,880
feeling a little bit off, going
to brunch, hugging grandma and

298
00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:22,920
unknowingly lighting a match in
a dry forest at international

299
00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:26,280
flights, mass gatherings.
And the facts that humans are

300
00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:29,680
social creatures who hate being
told don't touch your face and

301
00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:34,280
you got global spread in weeks.
The next advantage, high viral

302
00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:37,400
load early in the infection.
What does that mean?

303
00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:43,040
That means even though you
didn't feel sick and you had,

304
00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:46,560
you were carrying the virus and
you were carrying a ton of the

305
00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:49,800
virus, you had lots to share.
Right.

306
00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:53,400
Sharing a ring.
That's right, sharing.

307
00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:57,760
Sharing So this high and early
high viral load just gave this

308
00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:00,360
virus like superpowers almost
right?

309
00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:03,720
And then of course, efficient
airborne transmission.

310
00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:06,640
My employee, now colleague,
former employee, now colleague

311
00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:09,880
Casey says did before COVID, she
never thought twice about eating

312
00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:11,800
a piece of cake that somebody
had blown out the candles.

313
00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:16,280
And now post COVID, it's like
it's horrifying.

314
00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:18,360
Oh my gosh, I can't believe I
ever did that right.

315
00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:21,480
I don't before COVID.
I mean, if we, we could probably

316
00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:25,600
spend 1/2 an hour just thinking
up and listing things that we do

317
00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,320
differently than we did before
COVID, right?

318
00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:31,000
We don't shake hands as much.
I mean, I think we are back to

319
00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:33,600
kind of shaking hands, but
there's a lot of things that

320
00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:35,920
blowing out birthday cakes.
I'm trying to think of something

321
00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:36,680
else.
Drinks.

322
00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:39,640
Tasting some drinks.
This you know.

323
00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:42,720
Yes, yeah, yeah, exactly.
I still do by the way, I'm just

324
00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:44,280
more cautious about who I do it
with.

325
00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:47,120
I do too.
I also would probably, well, I

326
00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:49,160
don't know if I, I don't know.
We don't do birthday cakes.

327
00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:51,280
I'm out of that phase so I don't
know what I would do with a

328
00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:52,680
birthday cake but.
Eat it.

329
00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:58,520
Probably just no candles.
Yeah, you know, I still see

330
00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:02,640
people fist bumping instead of
shaking hands and and not so

331
00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:04,480
much the elbow.
I don't see that as much.

332
00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:06,079
I see more of fist bumping these
days.

333
00:17:06,079 --> 00:17:10,400
But yeah, it was we just had we
cross contaminated so liberally

334
00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:13,359
and freely.
But before COVID, I just put AB

335
00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:14,440
in it.
Now it's COVID.

336
00:17:17,599 --> 00:17:21,359
Before COVID that it really did.
It was riding high on all of

337
00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:24,119
that.
One of the things too, for a

338
00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:29,800
while there during COVID, this
COVID, we were sanitizing things

339
00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:33,360
to the NTH degree, which I think
on the one hand can be good.

340
00:17:33,360 --> 00:17:36,360
But I think there were a lot of
people who never left their

341
00:17:36,360 --> 00:17:39,800
homes and ordered in but never
had contact with anyone else

342
00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:43,800
actually ended up damaging their
immune system because they were

343
00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:46,440
being exposed to nothing for a
while.

344
00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:49,720
So people who were especially
protected, which they should

345
00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:52,000
have been, things like elderly
people and people that were

346
00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:54,440
compromised should have been
especially actually protected.

347
00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:57,520
But in some cases, I think there
should have been an intermediary

348
00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:00,440
step from I'm very, very
protected to, OK, I'm going to

349
00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:04,480
go to a concert because people
were doing that even though I

350
00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:06,760
don't know any stats.
And maybe you'll bring something

351
00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:10,360
up.
But I think that the RE entry,

352
00:18:10,360 --> 00:18:12,880
if you will, was a little bit
odd.

353
00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:15,120
Yeah.
That's another thing that we can

354
00:18:15,120 --> 00:18:20,320
talk about is the the response,
oh man, the response to once it

355
00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:23,880
was once it was declared A
pandemic, once it was holy crap.

356
00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:27,640
You know, this is this is
spreading like wildfire in a dry

357
00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:30,680
forest.
Like I previously said, there

358
00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:33,560
was a lot of response to that.
We saw lots of, you know, in the

359
00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:37,600
age of social media, we had a
lot more exposure to what people

360
00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:39,200
were doing.
We had a lot more exposure to

361
00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:41,600
bunk science.
We had a lot more exposure to

362
00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:45,960
rage bait trolls, you know, all
sorts of things that really I

363
00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:48,520
think harmed the management as
well.

364
00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:51,520
I see, like you said, we, I saw
lots of videos of people

365
00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:55,400
sanitizing every grocery that
came into their house.

366
00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:58,080
And it's like, I don't, I don't
think you're helping anything.

367
00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:01,080
I'm if you're not, yeah.
If you're not immunocompromised,

368
00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:04,240
you're best to just follow the
CDC recommendations of wearing a

369
00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:07,440
mask, you know, washing your
hands completely, don't shake

370
00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:09,560
hands, don't blow out birthday
cake, candles, that sort of

371
00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:12,480
thing.
And we did see a lot of man, we

372
00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:15,320
saw a lot of, a lot of, a lot
of, a lot of a lot of a.

373
00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:18,800
Lot of a lot of oddities.
We'll just leave it at oddities.

374
00:19:19,120 --> 00:19:22,080
Symptoms from so early messaging
said what?

375
00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:25,360
That COVID was like the flu.
That was optimistic.

376
00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:29,160
Symptoms range widely.
Fever, cough, shortness of

377
00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:32,480
breath, fatigue that feels like
gravity, doubled loss of taste

378
00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:34,240
and smell, which was deeply
unsettling.

379
00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:38,400
GI symptoms, headaches, muscle
pain, and it goes on and on.

380
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:41,200
I wanted to tell you I was kind
of, I don't think I told you the

381
00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:44,000
details.
I think that I saved it to share

382
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:45,600
this with you while we were
recording.

383
00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:48,680
But one of the symptoms I had
with COVID this time around was

384
00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:52,760
the most bizarre.
So it was basically as close to

385
00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:55,400
lucid dreaming as I can think
of.

386
00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:57,920
So what happened?
This happened twice to me while

387
00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:00,440
I was in the sickest part of my
COVID experience.

388
00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:05,520
This time around, what happened
is I was, I was in OK, so I was

389
00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:09,840
going to work and I got to work
and I worked in a big office

390
00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:11,720
building, which I don't
actually, I work from home, as

391
00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:14,360
you know, but I, I worked in a
big office building with

392
00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:17,560
elevators and such.
As I got to work, I started

393
00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:20,040
acting weird.
Right.

394
00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:23,240
And like I, I, I was acting like
I was drunk.

395
00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:27,840
Somebody called the paramedics
and they were like, they came to

396
00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:30,600
see me and I kept trying to tell
them that they needed to test

397
00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:33,920
for other things that weren't
being drunk, that like what

398
00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:36,480
other things, what other things
caused these symptoms?

399
00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:38,600
And they were like, shut up
drunky, right?

400
00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:39,520
Like they were really mean to
me.

401
00:20:40,120 --> 00:20:44,640
Yeah, I guess.
And so so they ended up taking

402
00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:48,280
me to the hospital and instead
of taking me to the emergency

403
00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:51,160
room, they took me to like an
administrative area and then

404
00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:53,200
just left me there.
And then everybody around me was

405
00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:56,200
like, what are you, what are you
doing here?

406
00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:59,040
And I'm like, I, I, I think I
need to be in the emergency

407
00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:00,320
department.
Something's wrong with me.

408
00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:01,800
And they're like, shut up
drunky, right?

409
00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:06,000
Wow.
So I end up calling Sunny and

410
00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:07,560
Sunny and James come and pick me
up.

411
00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:09,400
They figure out they're not
medical people.

412
00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:11,440
That's Sunny and James.
Sunny's my sister James and my

413
00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:12,960
brother-in-law.
They're not medical people.

414
00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:15,160
But in my dream, they figure out
what's wrong with me.

415
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:18,400
So the next day I go into work
and James goes with me.

416
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:22,200
He's there to defend me to
Cliff, my boss, to, you know,

417
00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:27,080
confirm that I wasn't drunk.
Well, I, I go in, they won't let

418
00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:30,200
James in.
So I go into the office and

419
00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:32,640
instead of Cliff, it's Kai's my
direct boss.

420
00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:36,760
And Kai says to me, we need to
talk to, we need to talk about

421
00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:42,640
getting you into rehab.
And I was like, Kai, I wasn't

422
00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:45,040
drunk.
And he and all of a sudden I'm

423
00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:47,720
like, wait a second.
Before this happened, I was

424
00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:50,000
talking to my this is all
happening in a split second.

425
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:52,200
Right before this happened,
before I went into work

426
00:21:52,360 --> 00:21:56,240
yesterday, I was talking to my
mom and Ananeta and I was like,

427
00:21:56,560 --> 00:22:00,200
OK, and here's what happened.
I was like, OK, if this is real

428
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:04,040
I am definitely going to rehab,
but I started saying out loud

429
00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:06,240
and that is dead and that is
dead and that is dead and that

430
00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:07,600
is dead.
Like.

431
00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:10,240
Dakai, right?
Like I'm hoping this will break

432
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:12,800
this the spell, the break this
dream or whatever.

433
00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:17,000
And it did, thank goodness.
But it was so strange because

434
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:20,960
the dream was so real to me that
I was like, I am going to look

435
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:26,160
like an absolute ass if this is
real and I'm just saying this in

436
00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:28,680
front of my boss.
And not only that, as I was

437
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:32,120
waking up, I had this physical
sensation of like, I literally

438
00:22:32,120 --> 00:22:36,400
had to like, feel my body and
like, say, OK, OK, OK, I'm

439
00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:37,760
human.
Where am I?

440
00:22:38,120 --> 00:22:39,440
OK?
I'm laying down on something and

441
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:44,600
like, bring myself back into
reality and say, OK, it's funny

442
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:45,880
actually.
Because then I was like, OK, I'm

443
00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:47,600
at home.
Wait, what does my home look

444
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:48,880
like?
Do I have bathrooms in my home?

445
00:22:49,120 --> 00:22:52,280
It was so strange.
It was the strangest thing I've

446
00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:54,960
ever experienced in my life.
I finally did come back to

447
00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:57,480
finally reality.
And it was really like, you see

448
00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:00,080
those things in the movies or
the TV, you know, where you kind

449
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,920
of go into something.
And it felt like that all of a

450
00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:06,040
sudden, I was back into reality.
And I was like, oh, this is my

451
00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:07,840
beautiful house.
This is my beautiful wife.

452
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:10,960
That's my song anyway.
Yeah.

453
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:12,880
And so that happened twice.
I'm not going to go through the

454
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:15,200
details of the other dream just
because that's a lot.

455
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:18,560
But twice that happened where I
was like, I think this might be

456
00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:20,720
real, but this can't be real.
Is this real?

457
00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:22,440
There's no way this is real.
Is this real?

458
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:27,480
But way, way more, way, way more
than I've ever experienced.

459
00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:30,400
You know, everybody I think has
dreams where they're like, they

460
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:32,040
wake up and they're all, oh, I'm
not mad.

461
00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:33,920
That was just a dream, right?
Oh, that felt so real.

462
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:38,720
This was eons beyond that eons.
It was so bizarre.

463
00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:41,880
And so you were actually asleep
having these dreams.

464
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,920
It wasn't like you were awake
having because we, I don't know,

465
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:47,560
you may not remember it because
you were sick, but you text me

466
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:49,160
and said you're having
hallucinations.

467
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:52,440
Yes, that's that's what I was
referring to because I was like,

468
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:54,480
because of well, that's the
thing.

469
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:57,680
I've had little miniatures of
it, but there were two distinct

470
00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:00,920
ones that were really deep like
this, like this drunk at work

471
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:02,960
thing, which I don't get drunk
at work, for the record.

472
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:04,600
So let's make that very clear.
That's good news.

473
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:09,160
Yeah, not a not not a common
habit or habit at all or

474
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:10,560
practice at all.
But anyway.

475
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:12,080
Probably doesn't work real well
and.

476
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:15,480
So that's how I felt.
I was like, I am, I, I don't

477
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:18,920
even know what's real anymore.
That's how it felt, but like it

478
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:20,960
shook me.
It, it was, I'm sure there may

479
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:22,800
be people out there that are
like, you're so silly.

480
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:24,640
That's not COVID.
Well, it's never happened to me

481
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,200
before and it happened on my
worst day of having COVID this

482
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:27,960
time, right.
So.

483
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:30,680
Yeah, that's right.
It was my.

484
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:34,720
Experience.
So we hear about lots of lots of

485
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:37,440
strange symptoms like this.
What's the real kicker, Andrea?

486
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:40,440
long COVID.
And I'm not going to say a lot

487
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:42,960
about long COVID because I know
you've got an episode planned

488
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:46,200
for to cover specifically long
COVID, and I think it deserves

489
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:49,720
an episode of its own because
it's a real jokester.

490
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:55,040
But what I will say about long
COVID is that it's a phenomenon.

491
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:58,560
We don't know a lot about it.
People report months or years of

492
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:03,080
brain fog, shortness of breath,
heart issues, dysautonomia,

493
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:04,960
which I just forgot what that
means.

494
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:07,240
Well, and this is not feeling
like.

495
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:10,400
Yourself.
And I am just doing some

496
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:12,560
research on one of my
granddaughters who I believe has

497
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:14,880
POTS.
She had a COVID experience when

498
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:16,600
she first started having these
symptoms.

499
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:20,600
She had COVID experience which.
Yeah, she had COVID and then

500
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:23,560
started developing some
symptoms.

501
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:25,200
She had COVID a couple of years
ago.

502
00:25:25,360 --> 00:25:29,760
She's now 16 and is experiencing
some symptoms that appear to be

503
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:32,720
pot POTS related.
So we're doing some research on

504
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:33,920
that and she's being checked
out.

505
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:36,160
But I thought as I was
researching approaching that

506
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:40,480
people who had COVID, some of
them in their long term COVID

507
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:42,880
develop pots.
And again, I'll be Speaking of

508
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:46,520
that when I do the episode.
It's funny you say that because

509
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:50,680
my POTS episodes, not well,
yeah, episodes, but symptoms may

510
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,920
have also started after I had
COVID the first time.

511
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:56,760
Oh, man.
So just everybody knows.

512
00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:00,000
I'll let Andrea say a lot more
about it, but POTS is positional

513
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,400
orthostatic tachycardia
syndrome.

514
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:05,800
Correct.
Which means, which means that

515
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:10,600
sometimes when people with this
this syndrome stand up, they

516
00:26:11,120 --> 00:26:14,960
they don't anymore all the.
Blood just doesn't doesn't want

517
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:15,920
to pump where it's supposed to
go.

518
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,840
And they can get dizzy, they can
pass out, they can have little

519
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:21,440
tremors or spasms.
It's really unpleasant.

520
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:25,440
And some people actually even
experience full on seizures.

521
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:29,160
Depends on how they do.
But yeah, we'll talk a little

522
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:31,600
bit more about that and we'll
probably have an episode about

523
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:36,200
it on its own.
And dysautonomia is I was so

524
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:41,240
wrong I I am a fool.
So it's a rare inherited

525
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:43,960
disorder of the autonomic
nervous system occurring mostly

526
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:46,120
in Ashkenazic juice,
characterized by lack of

527
00:26:46,120 --> 00:26:49,920
reflexes, abnormal sweating,
defective lacrimation, crying

528
00:26:50,360 --> 00:26:53,960
and sense perceptions, emotional
instability and motor in

529
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:56,960
coordination.
So yeah, yeah, when you said

530
00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:59,080
what you did, I'm like, I'm not
sure that's correct, but I, I.

531
00:26:59,120 --> 00:26:59,760
Mean.
It was a good.

532
00:26:59,920 --> 00:27:02,040
It was a good guess for somebody
who doesn't know any Latin.

533
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:06,160
Why?
Not wow that case moving moving

534
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:10,200
back to COVID.
Well, also just more long COVID

535
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:12,240
systems, really quick chronic
critique and neurological

536
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:15,560
symptoms.
So, you know, COVID has not been

537
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:19,160
just about survival.
It's been about what has come

538
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:21,480
after survival.
COVID changed the way we think

539
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:23,840
about air quotes, mild illness
forever.

540
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,600
OK, the medical response.
Here's something we don't say

541
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:31,480
loudly enough.
And I'm going to metaphorically

542
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:35,560
shout this from the roof.
Roofeps having a tough mouth

543
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:38,080
day.
I'm going to shout this from the

544
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:40,760
rooftops.
The COVID vaccines were a

545
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:45,440
scientific triumph.
Let me repeat that.

546
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:51,440
The COVID vaccines were a
scientific triumph. mRNA

547
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,800
technology wasn't new, they've
been studied for decades.

548
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:59,840
What was new was the funding,
the urgency, the global

549
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:03,720
collaboration and bureaucracy
getting out of the way.

550
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:08,600
Vaccines were developed, tested
and deployed in under a year

551
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:12,600
without without skipping safety
steps.

552
00:28:13,120 --> 00:28:15,800
That is not luck.
That is preparation, meaning

553
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,360
crisis.
And yes, there were side effects

554
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,920
and yes, there were risks.
That's true of every medical

555
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:23,240
intervention.
Right.

556
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:26,560
And as you mentioned, the
groundwork was already laid.

557
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:29,600
It wasn't like some people
thought that they decided to

558
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:31,440
make a vaccine and they did it
in six months.

559
00:28:32,120 --> 00:28:36,320
This has been years in action
and checking things.

560
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:41,560
And I said in action, not not
doing action in space action.

561
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:49,000
And it was it was a it was a
culmination of the time spent.

562
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:52,520
So though again, conspiracy
theorists were like, what?

563
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:57,560
But it wasn't, it wasn't that.
It was, as you said, planning

564
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:02,320
and action throughout many years
that made it able to be taken to

565
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:04,760
the next step so quickly.
Yeah.

566
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:07,600
And.
On a population level, vaccines

567
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:10,800
dramatically reduced
hospitalizations, deaths, and

568
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:14,080
health system collapse, which
matters because overwhelmed

569
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:17,000
hospitals being people, die from
everything else too.

570
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:20,400
And I want to make that another
really big point.

571
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:26,280
These vaccines prevented deaths
of people from things like

572
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:31,000
kidney failure, cardiac arrest,
pneumonia, horrible accidents,

573
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:34,000
burns, all of those things that
have to be treated in a

574
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:36,360
hospital, have to have room in
the hospital.

575
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:40,240
And so the fewer COVID patients
that we have in the hospital,

576
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:44,000
the more room there is for those
that also need hospital.

577
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,360
Help, right, Right.
Because that wasn't the only

578
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:49,840
thing going on.
Exactly that life continued

579
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:53,240
lifing, as we say.
I can't imagine that anybody is

580
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:56,760
surprised that as nurses we are
very pro vaccine.

581
00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:01,880
I want to make that very clear.
We believe wholeheartedly in the

582
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:04,720
COVID vaccines.
I did not get my COVID vaccine.

583
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,640
I got my flu vaccine, and when
my family got the flu, I did not

584
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:10,020
get the flu.
But I procrastinated the COVID

585
00:30:10,020 --> 00:30:11,920
vaccine this year and look where
it got me.

586
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:19,280
Yeah.
So yeah, really needed, you

587
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:21,160
know, some real lived
experience.

588
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:25,120
It's funny though, because this
is my second time having COVID

589
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:26,880
and the first time was during
the pandemic.

590
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:30,200
And it they've been two very
different experiences.

591
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,000
The first time I had some
respiratory symptoms, but my

592
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:37,360
biggest symptom was the, the old
famous lack of loss of sense and

593
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:39,360
smell.
And I remember hearing about

594
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:40,800
that in the beginning of the
pandemic.

595
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:43,400
I, I was watching a lot of
TikTok back in the day.

596
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:45,520
That's where I was getting a lot
of information, including false

597
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:47,920
information because I know how
to do my own research and not

598
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:50,920
just take what everybody says on
TikTok is fact Ding.

599
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:57,560
That's why 2 sparkling Ding.
I remember one of the very first

600
00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:00,160
things I heard was somebody
saying my husband lost his sense

601
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:03,680
of smell, taste and smell.
And we're freaking out because

602
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:06,600
this was, this was new, right?
And I remember thinking, well,

603
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:10,000
that can't possibly, I'm no
scientist or doctor, but I was

604
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:12,920
like, well, that can't possibly
be a symptom of a flu, right?

605
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:14,680
Thinking that COVID is just
another flu.

606
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:20,360
And sure enough, when I
experienced it, it was one

607
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:23,640
unsettling.
I already said it, but I I'm I'm

608
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:26,720
at a loss for words.
It's so hard to describe the

609
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:30,680
experience, but it was as though
I wish I could find words.

610
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:31,840
I didn't think this would
happen.

611
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:35,560
Well, it's also, I know that for
me, when I heard that about the

612
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:38,840
symptom of loss of taste and
smell, that, Oh my gosh, that's

613
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:41,720
the symptom of Parkinson's too,
an early symptom of Parkinson's.

614
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:44,520
Right, of course.
As we medical professionals

615
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:47,600
think of all the possibilities
and got multiple illnesses why

616
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:49,520
we're in school even though we
really didn't.

617
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:54,640
It's easy to mix these things up
as well for you for saying the

618
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:58,120
COVID not having the taste of or
the sense of taste, I had that

619
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:00,000
as well.
I could smell my sense of smell

620
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,280
is actually unpleasantly strong
sometimes.

621
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:05,520
But when I couldn't taste
anything, it reminded me When I

622
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:08,120
had my cancer experience, when I
was doing chemo, everything

623
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:12,000
tasted like metal because of,
you know, the heavy metals in my

624
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:15,320
system.
But in this case it was just.

625
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:19,360
Things tasted like nothing for a
while, and that's no fun.

626
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,200
It was so distressing to me.
I kept a little bottle of

627
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:25,280
essential oils next to my bed.
Every morning when I woke up I

628
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:26,480
would try to smell that
essential oil.

629
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:28,720
I can't remember which one it
was, but every morning I'd be

630
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:31,480
like, no, I can't smell it, damn
it.

631
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:36,360
And I remember the first day
that I caught just that faintest

632
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:39,800
whiff of whatever oil it was,
and I was like.

633
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:45,720
Yeah, it's so scary.
It would.

634
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:48,720
Be gone forever, you know.
Yeah, that would be a big.

635
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:51,400
Really.
It's life altering to not have

636
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:53,880
that imagine.
I mean, I know there are people

637
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:55,680
that have it for other reasons,
like you said, Parkinson's,

638
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:57,520
there could be other
neurological reasons and

639
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:00,360
physical reasons, etcetera.
But you know, imagine you can't

640
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:03,480
smell if your house is on fire.
Yikes, that's scary.

641
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:07,960
Yeah, really scary.
I wonder if that that would be

642
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:10,800
gone all together as well.
I know that one of my mom's

643
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:13,640
first signs of having
Parkinson's was in she was in

644
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:16,040
her 50s and she said suddenly
she couldn't smell.

645
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:18,480
Oh wow.
Yeah, so anyway.

646
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:21,200
Well, the good news is this time
around I can taste and smell.

647
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:25,680
COVID is a historical event.
Future textbooks will not ask

648
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:27,000
was COVID inconvenient?
Nope.

649
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:33,160
That's so funny.
They won't.

650
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:38,200
They'll ask how did governments
respond?

651
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:40,240
Who was protected and who
wasn't?

652
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,360
How did misinformation spread
faster than the virus?

653
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:46,440
Why were essential workers
treated as disposable?

654
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:49,880
COVID exposed cracks that
already existed.

655
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:54,640
Health inequities, Labor
exploitation, underfunded public

656
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:57,160
health systems?
The myth that productivity

657
00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:00,680
equals worth it didn't create
those problems, it revealed

658
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:02,360
them.
One of the things that came out

659
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:06,440
of this that I find interesting
was there's a nursing compact in

660
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:09,480
the United States that it's an
agreement between states that if

661
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:12,920
you're licensed as a nurse in in
one state, you can practice as a

662
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:15,400
nurse in other states that have
made this agreement with each

663
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:16,760
other.
This compact.

664
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:20,480
One of the things that we saw
come after the COVID pandemic

665
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:24,520
was that all of a sudden many
states who have been resistant

666
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:28,280
to it, we're like, Oh, it's
really good to have people who

667
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:30,400
can practice medicine in our
state that aren't licensed here

668
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:34,480
because there were so many
nurses traveling to high impact

669
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:36,960
areas, high, high population
areas.

670
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:39,480
I, I saw.
So New Jersey is a good example.

671
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:41,320
New Jersey was not open to the
compact.

672
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:44,920
And then they needed nurses and
they needed a ton of nurses in

673
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:47,360
New York as well.
They need a ton of nurses and

674
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:49,000
they needed them yesterday,
right?

675
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:51,760
And so I'm, that's one of the
things, you know, we can find

676
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:54,080
Silver Linings to most anything
in our lives.

677
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:57,640
And that's one of the things I'm
grateful for opening that idea

678
00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:00,560
of, you know, nurses are nurses
are nurses are nurses, doesn't

679
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:02,240
matter what land they're
standing on.

680
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:04,960
True.
And I am actually, I have an

681
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:08,320
enhanced license that is compact
to almost all states.

682
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:10,200
I think there's five that aren't
participating.

683
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:11,840
I believe Texas is still one of
them.

684
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:15,040
I'm in that compact, which is
nice.

685
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:17,840
The other thing that's happened
is a lot more professions are

686
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:20,160
getting compacts.
So you're starting to see nurse

687
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:22,960
practitioner compacts of
physician assistant compacts,

688
00:35:23,240 --> 00:35:27,000
Dr. compacts, medical doctor
compacts.

689
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:28,880
I don't know that we need to
compact pH DS.

690
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:32,520
Probably not well.
And I know one of the concerns

691
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:34,560
that the states had had is that
then they wouldn't get the

692
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:37,400
revenue basically.
But if all of the states

693
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:39,960
participate and their nurses
participate from their state,

694
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:42,040
then I imagine balances out.
It should.

695
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:43,440
It should.
I would think it would balance

696
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:47,160
out and I wish back in those
days that I could that I could

697
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:50,680
travel and help because I love
being in the thick of things.

698
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:52,000
I'm AI want to be under the
hood.

699
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:53,800
I want to be behind the curtain,
you know, all of that.

700
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:57,640
But I just had young kids and a
kid in crisis as well.

701
00:35:57,640 --> 00:35:59,960
So I had to watch from the
sidelines.

702
00:35:59,960 --> 00:36:04,000
And I remember also seeing so
many burnt out nurses and

703
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:09,200
doctors and physician assistants
and nurse practitioners and just

704
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:13,440
the tears and the.
But amongst all of that, there

705
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:17,400
was always this forging on.
Nobody was throwing up their

706
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:19,360
hands and saying screw this, I'm
out, right?

707
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:25,440
Like, it was so edifying for me
to just see this labor force,

708
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:30,760
this, this medical community
come together and just fight and

709
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:32,560
do what it took.
Yeah.

710
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:36,280
Especially when the tides turned
because at first all of the

711
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:39,840
medical professionals and and
all the first responders were

712
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:43,160
just being lauded as being the
heroes they were.

713
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:46,680
And then because of some of the
political environment and things

714
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:49,720
like that, the tides turned and
then they became evil somehow

715
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:51,840
and they still.
Carried out they were the bad

716
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:55,600
guys and I remember that's what
killed me is like we were they

717
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:58,440
were like a hometown hero lives
here and you know and all this

718
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:00,920
and then all of a sudden it was
those damn nurses those damn

719
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:04,720
doctors and it's and yeah, there
were a lot of casualties, but I

720
00:37:04,720 --> 00:37:07,840
can assure you that was not for
lack of response from the

721
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:10,320
medical community.
That was what I already said it

722
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:14,320
was labor exploitation the
unfunded public health systems.

723
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:16,680
It was a lot of.
And the learning.

724
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:20,000
Information again right learning
if they went a lot right

725
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:20,760
there's.
Nobody.

726
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:23,320
A lot of people, yeah, a lot of
people were saying, well, they

727
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:24,400
just didn't know what they were
doing.

728
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:27,160
Well, no, they didn't, but
nobody did.

729
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:29,240
They could.
We, I just remember when we were

730
00:37:29,240 --> 00:37:32,320
writing all those protocols for
the company out, It was

731
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:35,240
literally in the first weeks, it
was minute by minute we were

732
00:37:35,240 --> 00:37:36,720
getting, I was.
Just going to say how we were.

733
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:40,080
Yeah, we were changing things
five times daily.

734
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:40,880
We were changing.
Things, yeah.

735
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:42,960
We just thought we had it and
then that was.

736
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:44,400
Over.
And then that was that was not

737
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:45,440
true.
Yeah, exactly.

738
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:47,840
I wish I could think of some
examples that were actually

739
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:50,240
Contra indicated or contrary,
but I can't think of anything

740
00:37:50,240 --> 00:37:52,480
right now.
Yeah, I know that contract

741
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:54,920
tracing was a giant pain in the
keister.

742
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:58,880
Oof.
Try contact tracing for the

743
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:01,760
employees of a warehouse that
employs 3000 employees.

744
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:09,160
Exactly and and also people who
were worried about losing jobs,

745
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:11,320
saying they were protecting
themselves when they really

746
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:15,040
weren't and they were positive
and they came in anyway because

747
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:17,120
they had to.
We felt like they had to.

748
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:21,000
They were considered air quotes,
essential, and that's the whole

749
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:22,560
thing.
But yeah, warehouse.

750
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:27,040
Workers for cars are essential.
Anyway, So what else?

751
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:32,920
Anyway I digress, COVID is now
in the zeitgeist and COVID brain

752
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:35,480
is a real thing.
COVID changed how we relate to

753
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:38,160
time.
Days blurred, weeks disappeared,

754
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,480
years feel missing.
It changed language.

755
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:42,840
Think of all the things we now
say.

756
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:45,240
Flatten the curve.
Social distancing.

757
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:49,720
Unprecedented times.
That's right, drink every time

758
00:38:49,720 --> 00:38:50,680
you hear that.
Am I right?

759
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:56,520
When one of the things that
there was a whole new generation

760
00:38:56,560 --> 00:39:01,600
from kids who were probably
about a year to really four

761
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:05,480
years could have still been
affected even in our country who

762
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:07,520
didn't see anyone without a mask
on.

763
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:11,440
I look at that and I wonder what
we're going to find in future

764
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:15,120
studies about how that affected
their ability to have any kind

765
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:17,720
of community.
And then the kids, my grandkids,

766
00:39:17,720 --> 00:39:21,520
some of your kids were in school
during that time, and they ended

767
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:25,040
up automatically becoming video
learners.

768
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:26,800
And they couldn't do it.
The teachers weren't trained

769
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:28,960
that way.
The teachers did the very best

770
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:31,200
they could, but what are they
going to do when you've got a

771
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:33,960
kid sitting on the other end of
a computer asleep, I mean.

772
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:40,160
That was my kids.
So my kids were a bunch of them

773
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:43,040
were near the end of high school
when schools closed down.

774
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:46,240
Only one of those continued to
traditionally graduate from high

775
00:39:46,240 --> 00:39:49,080
school.
The other 1234.

776
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:51,160
The other four.
I have kids really close

777
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:54,760
together, as you can tell, one
twins, but the other four, they

778
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:58,400
all deeded out.
They were like I I can't I I

779
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:01,640
can't this school and then
Odyssey air Quotes traditionally

780
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:04,160
graduated, but she was also in
an online school.

781
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:09,080
So but anyway they what is wrong
with me that?

782
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:11,320
Forecasting recovering from
COVID, that's true.

783
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:16,040
That format of learning did not
work for them, but it did not

784
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:18,000
work.
My youngest actually just just

785
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:19,600
graduated from high school last
month.

786
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:24,480
They were on a trajectory to
never finish 9th grade, and they

787
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:28,080
also went the non traditional
GED diploma route.

788
00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:31,840
I'm thrilled, as I'm sure you
can imagine, it collapsed the

789
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:34,440
education system just in my
household alone.

790
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:36,560
And of course, we know it
collapsed in the world as well.

791
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:40,720
And it'd be interesting also to
know studies of those, those

792
00:40:40,720 --> 00:40:45,520
students in those four years
that were forced into this one

793
00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:49,280
way of learning, right?
Well, and it was already the

794
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:54,320
beginning of a really big social
disconnect with it was all of

795
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:59,360
the phone time, screen time,
everything else that began that.

796
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:04,520
And then to me, those years of
even greater loss of connection

797
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:10,840
is I'm really concerned about
how the kids in that will become

798
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:12,320
adults.
I am too.

799
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:15,680
I agree.
I agree back to what it changed.

800
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:17,680
It changed work.
You know, we saw more remote

801
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:19,720
jobs.
As a matter of fact, I know of

802
00:41:19,720 --> 00:41:24,800
places that had never allowed
remote jobs that suddenly that's

803
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:27,440
now they're only work for whole
workforce is only remote.

804
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:32,200
It gave us Zoom fatigue and
remember just being so tired of

805
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:35,080
Zoom everything, you know.
And then, of course, it changed

806
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:37,040
the realization that meetings
could have been emails all

807
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:39,560
along.
Some of them could.

808
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:43,000
I have a T-shirt.
I got that set during that that

809
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:47,000
said sorry, I was on mute
because how many times, how many

810
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:49,480
times someone's talking, you're
like you're on mute, you're on

811
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:50,680
mute.
You're on mute if you're

812
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:51,640
talking.
You're on mute if you're

813
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:52,240
talking.
Yep.

814
00:41:52,720 --> 00:41:54,960
And then of course you will.
I will never forget.

815
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:58,200
I will never forget the classic
greatest, the greatest time of

816
00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:01,400
COVID.
That one lawyer who said I'm

817
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:03,920
here, I'm not a cat.
Yes.

818
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:06,080
Yes.
If you are not familiar with

819
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:08,960
that, please look up Lawyer
Zoom.

820
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:11,960
Not a cat.
It is delightful.

821
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:15,720
Yeah, and all the videos, the
snippets and things were

822
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:18,400
something untoward occurred.
Somebody stood up and they had

823
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:21,400
underwear on and said, I mean,
Oh my gosh, that part made it

824
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:23,520
actually almost bearable with
all of this.

825
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:25,480
Do you have more history or are
you going to talk a little bit

826
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:29,080
more about now COVID?
Well, I wanted to add that it

827
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:31,480
changed grief.
So we had our funerals on

828
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:33,440
screens.
A lot of people were dying alone

829
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:36,120
because they were nobody was
allowed in their room as they as

830
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:37,840
they died.
We had collected mourning

831
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:40,000
without closure.
And of course, it changed our

832
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:44,040
humor because humor is how
humans metabolize trauma, right?

833
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:46,040
So we've been making jokes, and
that's intentional.

834
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:48,640
I've been intentionally throwing
in a little bit of gallows humor

835
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:52,000
in here because I think that
while this is obviously a very

836
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:55,320
serious topic, nothing, nothing
makes something a little more

837
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:57,840
digestible than and a little
humor.

838
00:42:58,000 --> 00:42:59,920
COVID didn't end, it just
transitioned.

839
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:03,360
It became endemic, meaning it
circulates continuously like

840
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:05,360
influenza.
COVID is part of our lives now.

841
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:08,520
So like we were just talking
about, we now get to get

842
00:43:08,720 --> 00:43:11,280
influenza vaccines and COVID
vaccines every year.

843
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:13,200
Again, 10 out of 10 recommend do
it.

844
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:16,560
Well, it's interesting, I was
talking to a friend of mine in

845
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:20,160
Europe and she said that they're
not recommending vaccines for

846
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:21,920
anyone but the most compromised
anymore.

847
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:25,800
Oh interesting, I didn't, that
wasn't in my research.

848
00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:29,680
But vaccines, treatments and
prior immunity mean fewer people

849
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:31,880
will die.
This is again how it's changed.

850
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:35,440
People still get sick, people
still get long COVID, and people

851
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:38,320
do still lose loved ones.
But the difference now is risk

852
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:41,960
management, not eradication, not
containment, right?

853
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:45,880
And maybe, just maybe, maybe we
learned something about

854
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:49,240
listening to experts about
caring for each other, about the

855
00:43:49,240 --> 00:43:52,320
fact that there that health is
not individual, it's communal.

856
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:54,640
You asked me if I was going to
talk about any more of the

857
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:58,640
history of COVID or coronavirus.
And actually I wanted to before

858
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:02,440
we end, I kind of wanted to talk
about some of the anecdotal good

859
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:03,680
things that happened during
COVID.

860
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:06,320
Wanted to see what sorts of
things you remember.

861
00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:08,680
One of the things there are a
lot of things that stick with me

862
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:11,720
because this was really a
phenomenal phenomenon of the

863
00:44:11,720 --> 00:44:14,760
world coming together.
And it's a little funny that

864
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:17,320
right now we're in a phenomenon
of the world dividing.

865
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:19,720
But it it was really
interesting.

866
00:44:19,720 --> 00:44:23,160
And a few of the things that
stick with me were the Italians

867
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:26,280
singing to each other out of
their apartment windows and I'm

868
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:29,720
getting chills like I'm like,
these things were so touching.

869
00:44:29,720 --> 00:44:31,520
Another one was today's Good
stuff.

870
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:34,560
I Oh my gosh, come on.
Oh, Jim from the office.

871
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:37,400
Why can't I think of his name?
Anyway, I'm not going to dwell

872
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:38,920
on that, but you know, today's
Good stuff.

873
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:43,320
Every day he came in and
pretended to be a news anchor

874
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:45,400
and just talked about what was
happening, what good was

875
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:48,040
happening in the world during
during this pandemic.

876
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:50,760
As soon as the pandemic was
declared over, he stopped.

877
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:53,960
He really was just doing it to
give people something to look

878
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:57,760
not forward to, but to be happy
about, to have hope, something

879
00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:00,680
to provide hope.
Another thing I remember is

880
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:04,320
people going home after they
were treated in the hospital and

881
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:06,880
getting to go through the Hall
of Honor, Right.

882
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:09,840
And for those who don't know,
the Hall of Honor is where every

883
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:13,120
staff member lines up in the
hall from your room to the exit

884
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:14,840
and they clap as you leave like
I'm going to cry.

885
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:18,160
This is ridiculous.
What things do you remember from

886
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:20,520
from the pandemic?
And what good things do you

887
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:22,240
remember?
Or sweet things?

888
00:45:22,720 --> 00:45:26,720
Yeah, well, I remember the team
I was on for the company you

889
00:45:26,720 --> 00:45:29,400
work for.
My manager said every Friday

890
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:31,040
we're going to get together and
just.

891
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:33,840
Socialize.
Oh my gosh, Happy hour.

892
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:36,880
We work together.
We have Happy hour at every

893
00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:39,840
Friday at 5:00.
And that meant a lot to me.

894
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:43,400
It really meant a lot to me
because it was since we, I had

895
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:46,640
already been and you'd already
been working from home, but I

896
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:48,800
was completely isolated from
everywhere else.

897
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:52,600
I lived alone as you might.
I had a dog that I fostered

898
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:56,440
which really helped during that
experience, but I was alone most

899
00:45:56,440 --> 00:45:59,880
of the time when we were told
not to go anywhere and that was

900
00:45:59,880 --> 00:46:02,640
really hard.
So that happy hour was something

901
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:06,000
that was very important to me
and we hung out and sometimes we

902
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:08,080
showed each other.
Yeah, on Zoom.

903
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:12,720
It was on Zoom, and one of the
moments in Zoom that I was glad

904
00:46:12,720 --> 00:46:15,000
we had it and we would all just
just relax.

905
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:17,520
We wouldn't talk about work.
We just talked about just be

906
00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:19,640
friends.
Yeah, just be friends, show each

907
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:22,360
other our backyards, because it
was summertime that I remember

908
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:25,600
some of them.
And I showed my backyard Mike's

909
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:30,360
Cherry Tree and the things that
we're giving me joy, and that

910
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:32,360
was huge.
Yeah, I agree.

911
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:36,080
That was one of the biggest
things and then as we started

912
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:39,320
realizing we could have sort of
air quote pods of people that we

913
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:43,040
could collect with, then was
soon as I could do that, I did.

914
00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:45,600
And that also meant a lot to me
because I'm certainly a social

915
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:48,880
being and I really missed going
out and doing the things.

916
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:51,960
Yeah, I'm also a social being
and I miss that.

917
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:53,960
You know, it actually broke me.
I don't, I don't want to be

918
00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:56,120
social anymore.
And that's a little sad.

919
00:46:56,640 --> 00:46:57,720
We're not talking about sad
stuff.

920
00:46:57,720 --> 00:47:02,160
But yeah, ever since we were
isolated and quarantined, I I

921
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:05,080
prefer to be home.
And so that's, you know, I mean,

922
00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:09,000
I could probably quote UN quote
cure myself of that, but it

923
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:10,960
definitely, it definitely
changed me.

924
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:12,760
It made me want to be social
less.

925
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:15,080
And not because of anything to
do with germs or anything like

926
00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:17,040
that.
It just, I don't know, I got

927
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:19,280
comfortable I guess.
Yeah, people did.

928
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:20,920
Can't believe.
I'm crying, what a nerd.

929
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:24,320
One of the things I wanted to
share is that I've gotten COVID

930
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:27,240
3 or 4 times.
I got it once in 19 before it

931
00:47:27,240 --> 00:47:32,360
was cool and then a couple more
times and I did have the vaccine

932
00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:35,680
and I do strongly believe that
my response would have been much

933
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:38,640
worse if I hadn't gotten it.
One time I had it though was

934
00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:43,000
really I felt really sad because
I was helping a friend of mine

935
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:46,120
with her daughter's wedding and
then I had gone to pick up

936
00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:50,200
eucalyptus for decorations and I
started coughing really hard.

937
00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:54,080
I thought I was allergic to
eucalyptus, which may still be

938
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:56,000
true.
However, it was in the back of

939
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:58,440
my car.
There was a ton of it and the

940
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:01,360
whole back of my car was just
filled with boxes of eucalyptus

941
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:03,880
and Max said wow, you must
really be allergic.

942
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:07,680
So we opened all the windows in
the car and drove the 1015

943
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:10,080
minutes it took with this
eucalyptus cough, cough, cough,

944
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:11,600
cough, cough.
As you know I have a chronic

945
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:14,720
cough Anyway, so this so we got
to the wedding.

946
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:17,680
I said, gosh, I seem to be
allergic to this, I need to step

947
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:20,000
out while you decorate with it
because it's causing me a

948
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:21,800
problem.
And that was the night before

949
00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:23,640
the wedding and then I came in
later.

950
00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:25,040
It seemed to be a little bit
better.

951
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:27,600
I had taken several
antihistamines just so I

952
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:30,680
wouldn't cough so much.
When I went back, it was better,

953
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:33,080
but I felt kind of yucky, but I
figured it was because I

954
00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:36,160
probably took more than was
advisable because I just didn't

955
00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:38,360
want to be full of coughing.
The next morning.

956
00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:41,960
I had several responsibilities
to assist the wedding party.

957
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:45,480
One of the things I had done was
picked up those sandwich rolls

958
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:48,520
from Costco and a few other
snacks for the bridal party and

959
00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:51,200
all of that.
My friend said she was hungry.

960
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:54,440
I just taken a bite out of one
of those little tortilla roll

961
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:57,200
things and she said I'm hungry.
Do you mind if I eat the rest of

962
00:48:57,200 --> 00:48:58,040
that?
And I'm like, OK.

963
00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:01,680
And later on this really haunted
me.

964
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:04,400
But I gave her the rest of the
bite because it was just a small

965
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:06,200
thing.
Through the day I got feeling

966
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:08,480
more and more poorly.
I was still taking on his means,

967
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:12,160
thinking still it was allergies.
I made it to the dinner of the

968
00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:14,320
day, but I felt really, really
terrible.

969
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:16,640
So I said to Max, I'm just going
to go.

970
00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:18,960
And I talked to my friend's
husband and I said, should I say

971
00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:20,440
anything?
And she said he said no, just go

972
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:22,960
because she'd feel bad if you
were reacting to the eucalyptus

973
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:25,720
and you're just sick.
And I said, yeah, me too.

974
00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:28,680
Anyway.
So I left and went to lie down.

975
00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:31,920
I was at home going.
I'm not feeling OK.

976
00:49:32,240 --> 00:49:34,680
And my neighbor heard me
coughing from outside because it

977
00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:36,320
was summertime and the windows
were open.

978
00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:38,960
And she said that doesn't sound
like your usual cough.

979
00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:40,960
She.
Didn't.

980
00:49:41,080 --> 00:49:43,400
And she said do you need a COVID
test?

981
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:45,320
And I'm like, I can't.
No, I can't.

982
00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:48,120
Well, yeah, let me have one,
because I'd already started

983
00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:49,880
feeling like I had a fever and
that kind of thing.

984
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:51,680
She brought it over.
It was immediately positive,

985
00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:54,760
like yours was last week.
Everything in me kept thinking

986
00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:56,960
of that moment.
I took a bite of that tortilla

987
00:49:56,960 --> 00:49:58,240
and handed it.
To the whole.

988
00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:02,200
Time going here take my germs
and she called me the next day

989
00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:04,480
saying, oh, I heard you were
allergic to the eucalyptus.

990
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:06,760
And I really vacillated with
whether I should say anything

991
00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:09,960
about it or not because her
daughter and and now new

992
00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:13,400
son-in-law were on their trip
and I had been spending time

993
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:17,680
with a family around everyone.
I was just like, so I told her

994
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:22,240
her mother had COVID as well.
And so she said maybe it wasn't

995
00:50:22,240 --> 00:50:24,760
from mom and I said maybe
because we had been spending

996
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:27,160
time together.
Anyway, it was just interesting

997
00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:31,680
to me how it COVID came on at
that moment to me in a form of

998
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:35,080
what appeared to be allergies.
So I didn't think anything about

999
00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:36,760
the possibility of spreading
germs.

1000
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:40,320
And that's where you're talking
about the high viral load before

1001
00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:43,120
we really know we're sick.
And because I have a chronic

1002
00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:46,560
cough, nobody really thought
anything about me coughing and

1003
00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:49,200
neither did I.
Anyway, that was an ironic time.

1004
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:52,760
And I have been on airplanes
before, especially during the

1005
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:55,200
heart of COVID when we're doing
all that planning for the

1006
00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:57,400
company.
I had gone back and forth to

1007
00:50:57,400 --> 00:51:00,560
California a couple of times and
people said, well, are you sick?

1008
00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:02,640
I'm like, no, I just have a
chronic cough.

1009
00:51:02,640 --> 00:51:06,840
And it was true those times not
as much anyway.

1010
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:09,320
I just thought that I think of
that from time to time.

1011
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:11,960
And how ironic was that?
I thought I was responding to

1012
00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:14,680
eucalyptus and I still to this
day don't know if I'm allergic

1013
00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:16,240
to eucalyptus.
But we've.

1014
00:51:16,560 --> 00:51:19,600
Used the oil, haven't you?
I have and I didn't have any

1015
00:51:19,600 --> 00:51:24,640
trouble so well, I I thought
maybe just because it was live,

1016
00:51:24,720 --> 00:51:28,400
it was have been cut off a tree
basically live still no offense.

1017
00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:30,520
To your friend, but that seems
like a weird decoration to me.

1018
00:51:30,680 --> 00:51:34,360
Yeah, I thought so too, because
I have allergies.

1019
00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:38,120
I really try hard not to have
things in my environment that

1020
00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:40,160
could cause allergies to some
other person.

1021
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:43,040
Things that smell strong or
things that are growing are

1022
00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:47,640
often allergies anyway.
Yeah, that was a fun thing.

1023
00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:50,880
But when I got COVID, like I
said, I've had a few times and

1024
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:52,760
each time was a little bit
different.

1025
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:54,440
Yeah.
Like I said that this one's

1026
00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:55,880
definitely been different than
last time.

1027
00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:59,400
My throat was so sore after I
slept all day on Saturday.

1028
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:02,000
When I woke up on Sunday, man,
my throat hurt.

1029
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:06,360
I mean, I felt like I wanted to
like, take a ice pick to it and

1030
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:09,520
chip off whatever is, you know,
clinging to it.

1031
00:52:10,200 --> 00:52:12,320
But happily you didn't do that
because that probably would have

1032
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:15,320
had a negative side effect.
Well, it makes me.

1033
00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:19,160
Wonder though if part of varying
nature of what we experienced, I

1034
00:52:19,160 --> 00:52:22,000
mean, we knew that the variant
was changing over time, right?

1035
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:25,120
So sure, of course.
Does does this mean, and this is

1036
00:52:25,120 --> 00:52:27,760
me just thinking out loud, does
it mean that now we had an

1037
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:30,240
immunity to part of it, so now
we're having something different

1038
00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:34,600
or because of the variant, we
were unable to fight it even

1039
00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:37,200
though we had some probably.
A little bit of both.

1040
00:52:37,240 --> 00:52:40,800
And that's just like, you know,
that's based on all of my

1041
00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:43,920
minutes of thinking about it.
No seconds of thinking about it,

1042
00:52:44,120 --> 00:52:45,880
but it's probably both.
A little bit of both.

1043
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:50,040
It makes sense to me.
Well, my my feeling is I prefer

1044
00:52:50,040 --> 00:52:52,600
not to have COVID ever again.
And yeah.

1045
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:55,520
Yeah, me too.
I mean, I got lucky.

1046
00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:57,800
It lasted, you know, like I
said, I'm coming out of it

1047
00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:00,480
today.
So it lasted a week and it my

1048
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:03,480
friend just had it actually just
got done with it and she had it

1049
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:06,880
for three weeks.
So I'm Dang grateful that it

1050
00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:09,440
didn't last that long for me and
that it was not as it was

1051
00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:13,920
tolerable other than Sunday.
Didn't take any time off work or

1052
00:53:13,920 --> 00:53:14,840
anything.
So.

1053
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:16,960
Oh.
I was wondering about that and

1054
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:19,720
you know, like anything, there's
going to be up ticks and and

1055
00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:21,600
lowering of it and things like
that.

1056
00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:25,040
I know that when I traveled
recently to my elderly parents,

1057
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:27,800
I wore a mask the entire time I
traveled.

1058
00:53:28,080 --> 00:53:30,480
Now people are different sides
of the fence whether it helps or

1059
00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:33,280
not, but you know, I can't help
but think that it does help at

1060
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:35,840
least a little bit.
And I didn't really have.

1061
00:53:35,840 --> 00:53:39,560
Shown that masks.
Yeah, as much as I didn't want

1062
00:53:39,560 --> 00:53:43,040
to wear one, I wore them.
I wore the mask as soon as I I

1063
00:53:43,040 --> 00:53:44,680
put it on before I went into the
airport.

1064
00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:46,640
I wore it the entire time on the
airplane.

1065
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:48,600
I didn't wear it on the way
about.

1066
00:53:48,600 --> 00:53:52,440
That is people when when I see
somebody with the mask on, I

1067
00:53:52,440 --> 00:53:56,320
assume they're sick.
Yeah, people do and that's fine.

1068
00:53:56,600 --> 00:53:57,840
They can assume that if they
want.

1069
00:53:58,240 --> 00:54:00,720
But I.
But I didn't wear one on the way

1070
00:54:00,720 --> 00:54:03,960
home and I didn't get sick so.
Yeah, well I can see why you

1071
00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:06,000
would wear 1 going to your
elderly parents house.

1072
00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:07,360
Yeah, they didn't need that.
Kind of help.

1073
00:54:07,480 --> 00:54:09,920
They're definitely
immunocompromised.

1074
00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:11,880
Yeah, yeah, indeed.
Well, thank you.

1075
00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:13,000
This has been really
interesting.

1076
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:14,720
Did you have anything else or we
I just.

1077
00:54:14,720 --> 00:54:18,360
Wanted to say if history teaches
us anything, it's this pandemics

1078
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:22,040
end that they change us forever.
COVID will live in our language,

1079
00:54:22,040 --> 00:54:24,120
our policies, our bodies, and
our memories.

1080
00:54:24,440 --> 00:54:26,680
And someday a kid will ask,
wait, you couldn't leave your

1081
00:54:26,680 --> 00:54:28,680
house?
And we'll say Nope.

1082
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:33,040
But we learned how fragile and
how resilient we really are.

1083
00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:38,440
That's the end.
I love it and I think that when

1084
00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:43,320
we have times of difficulty,
whatever that looks like, that

1085
00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:46,520
we need to remember that part of
the fact that we innately have

1086
00:54:46,520 --> 00:54:50,560
resilience and while times may
feel difficult, we'll get

1087
00:54:50,560 --> 00:54:52,400
through it.
We may not know what it looks

1088
00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:53,840
like yet, but we'll get through
it.

1089
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:55,760
Yeah, I agree.
Thank you.

1090
00:54:56,040 --> 00:54:57,640
All right.
If you've made it this far,

1091
00:54:57,640 --> 00:55:00,320
clearly you like a little mayhem
with your medicine.

1092
00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:03,160
Or you just enjoy hearing us
ramble about weird medical

1093
00:55:03,160 --> 00:55:05,360
mysteries.
Either way, we'd love you for

1094
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:07,560
it.
So hit that follow or subscribe

1095
00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:09,200
button wherever you're listening
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1096
00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:11,080
Toss us a rating or review while
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1097
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:13,960
Helps other curious weirdos find
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1098
00:55:14,640 --> 00:55:16,720
And we know there are a lot of
you out there.

1099
00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:19,560
Oh so many.
Come join the chaos.

1100
00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:22,800
Thanks for listening to
Medicine, Mystery, mayhem and

1101
00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:25,840
sometimes murder do.
You have an idea for an episode

1102
00:55:25,840 --> 00:55:28,320
of this podcast?
Just want to say hi?

1103
00:55:28,680 --> 00:55:31,680
You can get in touch with us at
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1104
00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:38,680
That's OURM
thenumberfourpod@gmail.com.

1105
00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:43,200
We read every e-mail, and
sometimes we even respond just

1106
00:55:43,200 --> 00:55:46,000
like real professionals.
Because we are.

1107
00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:50,880
Old friends with new twists and
lots of body bags.