Jan. 6, 2026
Disappear
Some disappearances are mysterious.
Others are tragic.
A rare few feel like they break the rules of reality itself.
In this episode of Medicine, Mystery, Mayhem & Murder (M⁴), Andrea and Crystal explore seven cases where people didn’t just go missing — they seemed to vanish in ways that shouldn’t be physically possible.
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Welcome to M4 Medicine, mystery,
mayhem, and sometimes murder.
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I'm Andrea Marciano and RN with
35 years of experience across
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various fields.
From direct patient care in
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hospitals to home health,
geriatrics, and injury medicine,
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I face life, death, and
everything in between.
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And I'm Crystal Miller and RN
with 13 1/2 years of experience.
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My work spans home health,
Hospice, emergency care,
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geriatrics, and occupational
health.
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From the chaos of trauma based
quiet moments with patients,
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I've seen stories that defy
explanations.
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We've been friends for over 25
years and as nurses we've shared
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countless stories that have left
us and our families speechless.
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Now we're bringing those stories
and many more to you in
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medicine, mystery, mayhem, and
sometimes murder.
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Each week, we'll uncover cases
that challenge the boundaries of
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medicine, sharing the human
stories behind the science.
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From puzzling medical mysteries
to shocking real life crimes,
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we'll bring you stories that'll
leave you questioning everything
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you thought you knew while.
We're both experiencing nurses.
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We want to make it clear we're
not here to give medical advice.
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This podcast is about
storytelling, education and
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exploration, not diagnosing or
treating medical conditions.
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This is medicine, mystery,
mayhem and sometimes murder.
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Let's dive in.
Hey, Crystal, how are you doing?
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I'm well.
And you're lying because you
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have a cold.
I do have a cold so I'm trying
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to not sniffle as much as
possible, but I do have a cold.
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So, dear listeners, when editing
happens, I'll try and edit
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sniffles out, but sometimes I
cannot.
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Anyway, Well, I hope you feel.
Better thank you.
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You know, I just covered.
Well, there you go.
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I just discovered that
electronics can be a pain.
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You just discovered that, huh?
I did just discover that, and
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the thing that made me discover
that is when I spilled my beer
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on my keyboard.
It broke the keyboard and that's
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a pain.
That's weird.
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I know that's what I thought.
You know, some things are really
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difficult problems to solve.
I have realized that having beer
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near my keyboard is not working
for me.
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Have you had any experiences
like that?
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I certainly have.
I have spilled plenty of things
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on plenty of keyboards.
It's funny that Holly likes to
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go around cursing at technology.
She's not quite a Luddite, but
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I'll tell you, she's like much
more close to being a Luddite
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than to being like I am.
Who?
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I'm not an early, early adopter,
but I'm definitely like an early
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ish adopter.
We kind of don't see eye to eye
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on technology.
So like I have salt and pepper
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grinders that are electronic
that you can plug in to USB cord
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to charge, but she hates those.
She just wants to grind her own
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pepper and shake salt.
It's funny, she hates
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technology.
I understand that.
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I have grinders that I do back
in the old fashioned way.
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The salt and pepper both grind
and I use.
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I pick it up and I twist it.
The good news is I've never
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spilled beer on my salt or
pepper grinders.
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Thank goodness.
I know some things are so
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difficult to deal with.
Anyway, so I've recently
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replaced my keys board because
while I thought the keyboard was
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going to be OK, I started having
some sticking issues with the
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keys.
Beer is sticky.
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Yeah, you know, anyway, that's
in my recent very large trauma
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in my life, which of course, as
we all know, is really not much
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of A trauma, but just thought
I'd share.
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So what do you have for us
today?
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Today I've got some really
interesting stories.
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They are about, it's about
mysterious disappearances or
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even illogical disappearances or
impossible disappearances.
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I'm really excited.
So there are disappearances that
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are tragic.
There are disappearances that
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are suspicious, and then there
are disappearances that feel
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like the universe glitched,
reality ripped, or a person fell
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straight through the floor.
These are not just missing
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persons.
These are cases where the
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evidence is wrong, the camera
footage is wrong, the route
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taken is wrong, the outcome is
impossible.
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Tonight I'm walking you through
several of the most chilling,
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logic defying vanishing.
As we know, each one is its own
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sealed mystery.
Each one breaks a different rule
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of reality, and all of them
remind us that every once in a
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while, the world does something
it should not be able to do.
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I have a ton of sources, so I'm,
rather than naming them, I'm
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just going to put them in the
show notes.
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I mean like a ton because
because like I said, I'm doing
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several stories and each of
those stories has several
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sources.
I'm going to focus first on two
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men who seem to have done, who
seem to have done something that
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should be physically impossible.
One walked into a crowded bar
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filled with cameras and
witnesses and never walked out.
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The other left his desk at a
federal courthouse in the middle
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of the night and embarked on a
100 mile drive he didn't seem to
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know he was taking, leaving
behind his glasses, his phone,
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and his wallet, until his car
was found idling in a stream
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with him, murdered inside it, in
a town he had never been to.
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And in both cases, the
surveillance footage, the
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evidence, the logic, the
sequence of events, none of it
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makes sense.
Not then, not now.
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These stories are of Brian
Schaefer and Jonathan Luna. 2
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disappearances, 1 of vanishing,
one of death that remains so
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inexplicable that even seasoned
detectives describe them as
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cases that shouldn't exist.
This episode contains Oh.
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Please.
I was going to say are they
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related cases though or they're
just two cases that happened?
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Nope.
They're just two cases that
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happened.
And like I said, these are the
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two I'm focusing on more than
the rest that I'm going to share
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with you.
So I have more details for these
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two because they're the ones
that I'm the most familiar with
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and that baffle me.
Because I think I've heard of
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that one, but I don't remember
any details.
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So I'm excited because I
remember reading something about
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it that he had left the stuff
and just sort of wandered off
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and they didn't have any idea
where he was for a while, if I
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remember correctly.
So you tell.
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OK, this episode contains
mystery, unanswered questions,
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and and investigative dead ends
that feel like they were
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scripted by the universe itself.
Before he became the center of
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one of one of America's most
talked about missing person
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mysteries, Brian Schaefer was
simply a 27 year old Ohio State
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medical student.
He looked like the kind of guy
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you'd cast in a commercial for
healthy living.
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Tall, lean, athletic, with an
easy smile his friends describe
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as chill but driven, The sort of
person who would ace an exam and
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still be the first one to
suggest margaritas afterward.
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Brian was born in Pickerington,
OH, the oldest of two boys.
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From the time he was little, he
was the kid who made things look
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easy.
He was bright, athletic, played
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baseball, got good grades, and
made friends wherever he went.
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People who knew him described
him as genuinely kind in that
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unforced way some people have.
He had an almost effortless
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charisma, not showing, just
warm.
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He wasn't the kid who tried to
impress anyone, he was the kid
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who somehow managed to impress
everyone anyway.
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He loved his family.
He was especially close to his
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mom, Renee.
Brian entered medical school at
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Ohio State, a huge
accomplishment that he took
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seriously.
Still, he wasn't the
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stereotypical all work, no play
Med student.
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He talked constantly about
travel, music, beaches, islands
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and the world.
His girlfriend, Alexis, believe
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their lives were headed toward
marriage.
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But beneath the exterior was
someone quietly carrying the
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weight of recent heartbreak.
Brian's mother had died suddenly
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of myelodysplasia just weeks
earlier.
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He was devastated but trying to
keep moving, talking about
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taking a beach trip with his
girlfriend, dreaming about
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finishing Med school, dreaming
bigger, about running away to a
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tropical place permanently.
He used to tell Alexis life's
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too short not to live on a
beach.
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This becomes important later.
It was April 1st, 2006.
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The Saturday before spring
break.
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Brian decided to go out with his
friend Clint Florence.
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They hit a few bars near the OSU
campus, and that's Ohio State
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University.
Not to be mistaken for Oklahoma
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State University eventually
ending up at an OSU student
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favorite, the Ugly Tuna Saluna.
At 1:15 AM, security cameras
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caught Brian riding up the
escalator to the bar's entrance.
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See, this is interesting because
I can quote UN quote visualize
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that because I've seen this
surveillance footage so many
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times that I can I I see it in
my head.
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Of course, I don't actually see
it because of a Fantasia.
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If you haven't listened to our a
Fantasia episode, please do.
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The best I can explain is just I
don't know.
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I I wish I, I wish I had words
for it, but I can air quote, see
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him coming up the escalator,
he's standing next to somebody
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and it just, it's just
interesting.
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I just wanted to interject that
because like it for my entire
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life, that's what visualizing in
my mind has been.
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There's no visual, but it's
still there.
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So anyway.
It's just interesting to me.
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I know we've talked about this
several times because it's just,
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it's hard to relate to not
having a Fantasia.
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And I can vision all these
things.
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So I feel like part of it is
you've got the memory of it as
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far as, you know, what it looks
like for someone to go up an
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elevator.
You know what it looks like for
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someone to come out of the
elevator, So how that I'm
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talking?
About an escalator.
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Right.
That one too.
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Elevator, escalator, one of
those moving things that's
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funny, but you've seen it, so
you can sort of remember it I
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think more than.
Yeah, so security cameras caught
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Brian riding up the escalator to
the bar's entrance.
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He smiles, sways a little from
the drinks he's already had and
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chats casually with Clint and
another friend, Meredith.
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This is the last confirmed
footage of Brian Schaefer alive.
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So shortly before 2:00 AM, Brian
reportedly told Clint he was
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going to talk to the band.
Clint and Meredith assumed he'd
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meet them outside afterward.
He never did.
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And this is where the story gets
bizarre.
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The bar had one public entrance,
the escalator Brian had been
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seen coming up on in the
surveillance footage.
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If he left, he should have been
caught on the exit camera.
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The police reviewed hours of
tape.
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There was no sign of him
leaving.
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Not through the escalator, not
through the emergency exits, not
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disguised, not ducking behind
anyone.
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Brian Schaefer walked into a bar
and simply didn't walk out.
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Detectives were not amused by
the air quotes.
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Supernatural vibes this case was
giving.
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They immediately began
considering practical
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explanations. 1 He left in a
crowd.
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Nope.
Video shows every exit.
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No Brian.
Two, he changed clothes or put
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on a hat.
Police reviewed frame by frame.
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No, Brian.
So why the heck would you do
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that?
Right, right.
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That's weird.
Three, he used an emergency
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exit.
That staircase was under
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construction and would have
dropped him into an area sealed
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by security fencing. 4 He never
left the bar.
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Police searched the Ugly Tuna
Saluna from attic to basement
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with no results.
This lack of exit is still the
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single biggest reason the case
remains one of the most
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confounding disappearances in
modern history.
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Police ruled out the idea of
Brian disappearing intentionally
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almost immediately.
He didn't use his bank account,
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his cell phone or his credit
cards.
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There were no signings, no
activity, nothing.
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The one moment that gave people
hope was in 2006 when Alexis,
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his girlfriend, called his phone
and heard it ring instead of
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going straight to voicemail.
For reference, this was about
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6:00-ish months after he had
disappeared.
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Oh, and so she kind of randomly
called him.
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Yeah, I used to do that with
Art's cell phone until his
226
00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:22,040
voicemail stopped.
You know, his outgoing message?
227
00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:24,240
Well, it was disconnected.
I would call just to listen to
228
00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:26,040
his outgoing message.
So maybe she was doing the same
229
00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:28,440
thing.
So phone companies later
230
00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:31,480
explained this was likely due to
a system ping, not because the
231
00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:33,920
phone was active.
For Alexis, it was crushing.
232
00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:36,800
She left him voicemails and
ended every voicemail with I
233
00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:38,080
love you.
Please come home.
234
00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:40,960
So there are many, many
theories.
235
00:11:41,560 --> 00:11:44,680
None are satisfying one.
Again, did Brian decide to run
236
00:11:44,680 --> 00:11:46,560
away to beach life like you
talked about?
237
00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:49,520
Unlikely.
All evidence to all evidence
238
00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:52,200
suggests he was planning a
future with Alexis and was
239
00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:58,320
deeply connected to his family.
And then again, no exit that
240
00:11:58,320 --> 00:11:59,120
seems.
Important.
241
00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:03,120
Yeah, another theory is an
accident inside the bar.
242
00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:06,240
Some theorize Brian May have
slipped into a restricted area,
243
00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:08,960
fallen and been disposed of
accidentally or intentionally,
244
00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:12,680
but the building was searched
thoroughly multiple times. 3
245
00:12:12,680 --> 00:12:16,720
Even like overhead exits and
attic space or something like
246
00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:19,520
that.
They say basement to attic is
247
00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:22,200
how they describe the searches,
so I imagine.
248
00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:25,640
Oh yeah, again, why?
I mean, if he wanted to leave,
249
00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:27,440
there was nothing stopping him
anyway.
250
00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:30,760
Right, so this is my.
This is my theory.
251
00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:34,880
I think this, I don't think it's
an accident actually, I think
252
00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:38,960
that he was put into like a
garbage bag and just taken out
253
00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:41,480
with all the regular trash
because nobody searches that,
254
00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:43,880
right?
And let's say that there was,
255
00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:47,280
let's say that the whatever foul
play there was, it didn't cause
256
00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:50,120
a lot of blood or or no blood or
whatever, right?
257
00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:53,320
I personally think he was
removed from the building in
258
00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:58,280
some sort of container that did
not indicate any semblance of
259
00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:01,160
being human remains or human or
anything like that.
260
00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:03,080
Now, I guess he could have been
OK.
261
00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:06,200
Let me just go to the next one
and then we can talk about it.
262
00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:08,960
Theory #3 foul play or an inside
job.
263
00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:12,320
Some speculate and altercation
happened and the bar covered it
264
00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:14,000
up.
But this would involve 1
265
00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:18,360
multiple employees, 20 witnesses
breaking silence for nearly 20
266
00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:23,000
years, three, no digital trail,
and four, no physical evidence.
267
00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:27,600
So it's possible, but improbable
#4 the construction area theory.
268
00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:32,200
This is the theory cops hate and
Reddit loves that Brian slipped
269
00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:35,000
out through the unfinished
construction area, somehow got
270
00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:37,480
past the fencing, and was
injured or killed in the
271
00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:39,960
process.
But police inspected the area
272
00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:41,800
thoroughly.
They found no evidence of a
273
00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:44,160
person dying, bleeding, or
becoming trapped.
274
00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:48,200
Here's #5 is the theory no one
wants to say out loud.
275
00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:51,800
Some believe Clint Bryant's
friend knows more than he said.
276
00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:55,040
Clint refused 2 polygraphs and
later obtained a lawyer.
277
00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:57,960
Friends described him as
evasive, even angry at the
278
00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:02,760
suggestion he cooperate more,
but there is no evidence linking
279
00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:05,880
him to anything.
This theory feels spicy but
280
00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:07,840
hollow.
Well, and also a lot of times
281
00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:12,000
people say you cannot judge
someone by how they respond to
282
00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:14,520
grief.
If he's in grief, which if it
283
00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:17,720
was his best friend or even a
close friend, then he may have
284
00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:21,080
just been in grief.
And also everybody says don't
285
00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:23,040
take a polygraph.
Well, I was.
286
00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:24,080
That's what I was just going to
say.
287
00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:27,160
I think I would refuse a
polygraph in any situation, even
288
00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:30,160
if I was completely innocent
because they can't be trusted.
289
00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:31,120
Right.
Yeah.
290
00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:33,960
And if the authorities are
insisting on a Poly polygraph
291
00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:36,040
polygraph, I'm going to get a
lawyer.
292
00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:40,240
I get it from that point of view
and actually just thinking about
293
00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:42,600
it, if people if friends were
then like, why would you just do
294
00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:44,040
the polygraph?
Why would you just do the
295
00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:45,520
polygraph?
I would probably eventually
296
00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:49,040
become evasive and even angry at
the suggestion, right?
297
00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:52,040
Like I'm not going to do a
polygraph unless it's for fun
298
00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:55,200
with no strings to or
ramifications, right?
299
00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:57,480
I might do it for fun.
Like let's see if you can catch
300
00:14:57,480 --> 00:14:58,960
me lying.
You know, when I'm doing lying
301
00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:03,280
intentionally to to play with a
polygraph, But that's like if
302
00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:05,600
and only if and probably never
going to happen.
303
00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:08,600
But yeah, I'm not doing a
polygraph if I'm being
304
00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:11,680
interviewed related to a
disappearance or a crime or a
305
00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:16,520
which I hopefully never will be.
But yeah, I get, I get that.
306
00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:19,400
But like, you know, like I said,
it's a spicy, it's a spicy
307
00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:22,440
theory.
Like it's the friend that's not
308
00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:25,800
really none of that's really
evidence of anything other than
309
00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:32,320
somebody who's educated in how
in police inter interrogation
310
00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:34,320
tactics.
The other thing is I know cops
311
00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:36,440
can lie.
Like I'm not going to commit a
312
00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:38,240
crime because that's not how I
roll.
313
00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:43,000
But if I ever found myself in an
interrogation, like I would
314
00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:46,200
definitely just be like lawyer,
you're not my buddy, you're not
315
00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:47,720
my pal.
You're no bye bye.
316
00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:51,640
Right.
And also there was no evidence
317
00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:53,280
showing that anything like that
happened.
318
00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:56,120
Exactly.
Brian's father, Randy, spent
319
00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:59,680
years searching for his son.
In 2008, he died unexpectedly
320
00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:02,120
when a tree branch fell on him
during storm cleanup.
321
00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:05,800
That's wild, right?
So now think about that.
322
00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:10,880
Brian's brother, in the course
of two years, lost his mother,
323
00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:15,880
his father, and his only sibling
literally orphaned in the space
324
00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:18,960
of two years.
So months later, after Randy
325
00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:22,920
died, someone posted a message
on Brian's missing persons web
326
00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:27,520
page saying Dad comma, I love
you Brian.
327
00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:32,440
IP tracing indicated the message
came from a computer in the
328
00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:35,520
Virgin Islands.
Was it real?
329
00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:38,360
Probably not.
Was it horrifying for the
330
00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:40,320
family?
Absolutely.
331
00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:44,680
I'm sure so whoever.
Looks.
332
00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:48,480
Like I'm thinking if someone
just put that randomly as
333
00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:52,640
opposed, they must have known
the scenario and how awful, how
334
00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:56,600
terrible to do to a family to to
give even a tiny bit of hope
335
00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:57,960
that maybe he's really out
there.
336
00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:02,320
Yeah, yeah, I agree.
People are terrible sometimes,
337
00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:03,600
man.
Sometimes.
338
00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:07,040
The Columbus, OH, Police
Department still lists Brian is
339
00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:09,440
missing.
He walked into a bar.
340
00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:13,000
He didn't walk out.
And today, the space between
341
00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:17,079
those two facts remains one of
the strangest voids in true
342
00:17:17,079 --> 00:17:19,760
crime history, as I guess you
could call it.
343
00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:20,720
I don't know what else to call
it.
344
00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:22,040
Disappearance history.
I don't know.
345
00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:26,960
Wow, yeah.
OK, if Brian's story is the man
346
00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:30,040
who vanished, Jonathan's is the
man who should still be alive.
347
00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:34,680
Jonathan Luna was a 38 year old
federal prosecutor in Baltimore.
348
00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:38,600
Smart, steady, married with two
sons, deeply respected by
349
00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:42,280
colleagues, he was handling a
major drug case involving heroin
350
00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:44,320
distribution and violent gang
activity.
351
00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:48,400
The case was messy, political
and high pressure.
352
00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:51,200
Once again, that becomes
important later.
353
00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:56,880
Jonathan was born in 1965 to
hard working parents, his father
354
00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:59,360
from the Philippines, his mother
from Liberia.
355
00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:02,960
Their home life was structured,
academic, disciplined and full
356
00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:06,000
of expectation.
He was bright early on top of
357
00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:09,080
his class, studious the air
quotes, good son.
358
00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:11,880
He wasn't flashy, but he was
determined.
359
00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:15,360
He earned his law degree from
UNC Chapel Hill, clerked for
360
00:18:15,360 --> 00:18:18,440
judges, then joined the DOJ as a
federal prosecutor.
361
00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:22,280
Jonathan married Angela, had two
boys, lived in a comfortable
362
00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:25,240
suburban home, and by all
accounts was a quiet man who
363
00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:30,360
kept his private life private.
But beneath the professionalism
364
00:18:30,360 --> 00:18:34,680
was a man stretched thin, long
hours, high state cases and
365
00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:37,680
stress he rarely shared.
He was also struggling.
366
00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:41,160
His career had been rocky, his
marriage reportedly was under
367
00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:44,560
strain, and he had recently been
reprimanded for misplaced
368
00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:49,040
documents.
So December 3rd, 2003, Jonathan
369
00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:53,840
left his office around 11:38 PM.
Like I said, he left behind his
370
00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:57,160
glasses, his cell phone, his EZ
Pass.
371
00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:00,000
And for those who don't know
what an EZ Pass is, that's a way
372
00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:03,040
to get through toll roads
without having to stop and pay
373
00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:05,440
cash.
It's something that a camera can
374
00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:10,240
scan and it knows to bill the
person who that EZ Pass belongs
375
00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:13,520
to.
And then, according to some for
376
00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:16,600
workers, he left behind
unfinished legal paperwork he
377
00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:18,680
desperately needed for the next
morning's hearing.
378
00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:22,400
Instead of driving home to his
family, he got into his Honda
379
00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:26,240
and began driving north.
What we know about the drive is
380
00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:27,920
from toll records and
surveillance.
381
00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:31,840
So again, he left at around
11:38 PM.
382
00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:36,680
At midnight, 12 AM, his car
passed the Fort McHenry tunnel.
383
00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:40,720
At 1:00 AM his debit card was
used at a rest stop in Delaware.
384
00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:44,280
The surveillance cameras show
him alone.
385
00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:47,560
He then drives across the
Maryland, Delaware, Pennsylvania
386
00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:51,840
borders in a looping nonsensical
pattern like someone lost or
387
00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:54,520
someone trying not to lead
anyone to a destination.
388
00:19:54,800 --> 00:20:00,040
At 5:30, AMA pair of workers at
a small rural Pennsylvania Creek
389
00:20:00,120 --> 00:20:04,320
found Lunas Honda sitting in the
shallow water idling it's engine
390
00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:06,880
running inside was Jonathan
Luna.
391
00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:13,800
He had 36 stab wounds.
A deep gash on his neck,
392
00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:19,440
defensive wounds, his own blood
saturating the interior of the
393
00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:22,760
car.
His wallet was on him, he had no
394
00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:27,960
cash, there was no weapon found,
and the car key was missing.
395
00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:31,280
So that leads me to believe it
was pushed to start since it was
396
00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:32,720
idling.
Right, so it.
397
00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:35,880
Just took away the key.
Yeah, or it could be on the
398
00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:37,720
phone.
I mean it could be, but it was
399
00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:39,680
that too long ago for a phone to
start it.
400
00:20:41,120 --> 00:20:45,160
I'm not sure when that started.
I mean our car 2. 1003 seems too
401
00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:47,080
long ago, yeah.
Yeah, it might do.
402
00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:51,280
Wow.
So here's what's really
403
00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:54,320
chilling.
There was very little blood
404
00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:57,600
outside the car.
So the interior of the car is
405
00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:02,080
saturated in blood.
The exterior or the surrounding
406
00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:05,600
area, very little blood.
So he was attacked inside the
407
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:09,240
vehicle while driving or
immediately after stopping, but
408
00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:11,360
the wounds were not deep enough
alone to kill him.
409
00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:14,880
He ultimately died.
Blood loss combined with
410
00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:18,480
drowning.
Now he drowned in the Creek
411
00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:22,120
where his car was, or if he
drowned in his own blood, but
412
00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:25,600
ultimately that was what he died
from was the blood loss combined
413
00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:28,680
combined with drowning.
At first, the FBI treated this
414
00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:32,520
as a homicide.
Then, against the objections of
415
00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:36,360
many FBI agents, it was
reclassified as a probable
416
00:21:36,360 --> 00:21:42,240
suicide.
That face is exactly how almost
417
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:44,320
anyone who has looked at the
evidence feels.
418
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:50,360
It does not sit well. 36 or 7
stab wounds and 36 suicides and
419
00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:53,800
defensive wounds.
Well, he was very poor at it,
420
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:56,760
that's for sure.
If it was suicide, but also
421
00:21:56,840 --> 00:21:59,160
really creative.
Right.
422
00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:00,840
So let's look through the
theories.
423
00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:03,000
Look through what?
Let's walk through the theories.
424
00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:06,880
First is, of course, suicide.
Federal prosecutors quietly
425
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:09,960
implied Jonathan staged his own
death to escape professional
426
00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:13,120
embarrassment.
But people don't stab themselves
427
00:22:13,120 --> 00:22:17,360
36 times.
There was no knife.
428
00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:20,520
He had defensive wounds.
He left his glasses.
429
00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:23,360
He left his phone.
He drove hundreds of miles in a
430
00:22:23,360 --> 00:22:26,360
confusing pattern.
Calling this suicide requires
431
00:22:26,360 --> 00:22:28,520
gymnastic level mental
flexibility.
432
00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:32,880
Yeah, and also for Heaven Said
it's 36 times.
433
00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:35,760
I don't think I could keep doing
it.
434
00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:39,520
I don't think anybody could keep
doing it unless maybe you took
435
00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:44,040
like a raging dose of crystal
meth, but there's no mention of
436
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:47,840
crystal meth in this case, so.
One would expect that he would
437
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:49,920
have.
It would have been checked.
438
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:54,720
Yeah, so theory 2, murder
related to the drug case.
439
00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:57,720
This is the most common theory.
Luna was involved in a case
440
00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:00,320
against the Woodlawn
organization, a heroin ring.
441
00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:03,480
Witnesses were testifying, deals
were being offered and tensions
442
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:05,840
were high.
Some believe he was lured into a
443
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,960
meeting, others believe he was
ambushed on the road.
444
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:13,160
The main issue with this theory
is no evidence ties gang members
445
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:14,920
to Pennsylvania where Luna was
found.
446
00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:19,240
Although that being said like
what a smart way to not make
447
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:21,920
people think it was you, right?
Do it somewhere where you don't
448
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:23,760
have ties.
Right.
449
00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:27,200
Right.
Like, you know, I, I wish I'd
450
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:30,760
thought of this before, before
when I was create, when I was
451
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:34,520
preparing for this, because I
would love to know what what
452
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,760
came of the prosecution against
the Woodlawn organization.
453
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:41,680
Like did anything change?
Were they where they offered
454
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:44,000
better plea deals or I I wonder
anyway, I.
455
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:45,120
Don't know.
I wouldn't think so.
456
00:23:45,120 --> 00:23:47,960
I mean because it's not like
someone else didn't pick up the
457
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:49,400
case.
Right, right.
458
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:51,160
Well, I don't.
Know they had somebody in there.
459
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:52,600
Bribable.
Yeah, they say.
460
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:55,840
Something more bribable, right?
Theory 3.
461
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:58,040
Internal corruption or career
trouble.
462
00:23:58,120 --> 00:24:00,880
Some speculated Luna was
involved in financial trouble.
463
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,160
A small amount of money had gone
missing from his office evidence
464
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:06,920
room earlier that year, though
it was never proven he was
465
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:08,920
responsible.
Could he have been meeting
466
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:10,600
someone to resolve a secret
problem?
467
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:15,920
Possibly, but it doesn't explain
the physical violence theory #4
468
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:19,640
coercion by someone he knew.
Some investigators believe Luna
469
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:22,800
may have been forced to drive,
perhaps by someone in the car or
470
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:24,520
picked someone up during the
trip.
471
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,920
But toll cameras do not show a
second person unless that person
472
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:31,280
crouched or hid.
Because they would probably know
473
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:34,920
that toll, that tolls have
cameras and breast stops have
474
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:38,080
cameras, right?
It you know, you can certainly
475
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:41,640
Crouch, put your seat down
whatever, lay the seat back or
476
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,760
to hide so.
But to remember all that every
477
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:47,440
single time, because some of
these cameras will sneak up.
478
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:50,480
And if a person isn't terribly
familiar, like I drive some of
479
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,720
these areas all the time and
there's the toll cameras.
480
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:55,520
And I'm like, Oh yeah, there's
another toll camera, but I
481
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:56,840
wouldn't have thought of it in
advance.
482
00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:00,800
Yeah, unless you cased it maybe,
right.
483
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:02,800
So you marked every toll camera,
I don't know.
484
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:06,160
So there's the wrong time, wrong
place theory that he was
485
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:09,120
randomly targeted, but the odds
of a random killer intercepting
486
00:25:09,120 --> 00:25:13,080
a federal federal prosecutor
who's on a late night Interstate
487
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:17,800
weird loop, delude loop defy
reason, right?
488
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:21,120
The the odds are slim.
The number six is the one theory
489
00:25:21,120 --> 00:25:25,040
investigators whisper about,
that Jonathan Luna was meeting
490
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:28,160
someone voluntarily, someone he
didn't want traced, and
491
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:29,800
something went catastrophically
wrong.
492
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:34,080
But again, the wounds, the
missing knife, the odd route,
493
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:38,240
the shallow Creek, it all feels
staged and sloppy at the same
494
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:40,040
time.
Nothing fits neatly.
495
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:45,240
So the strangest details are
that Jonathan's EZ pass was left
496
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:48,280
behind instead of using it.
Someone paid cash at each toll.
497
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:51,560
Was that Jonathan intentionally
avoiding a trace or someone else
498
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:53,440
who didn't know he had a pass?
Well, he didn't even have it
499
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,840
with him, so, you know, it.
Was it someone else who I mean,
500
00:25:56,840 --> 00:26:00,320
I guess OK, you don't actually
have to have your EZ pass on you
501
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,440
because it will scan your your
license plate if you haven't
502
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,680
registered.
But yeah, so missing knife.
503
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,280
I'm sorry.
I was going to say, and they
504
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:11,320
knew he paid cash because it was
on the cameras.
505
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:16,920
Yeah, Yep, exactly.
So despite a 100 mile crime
506
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:19,480
scene search, the murder weapon
has never been recovered.
507
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:23,520
The car's position, it was
angled gently into the Creek as
508
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:25,520
if driven deliberately, not
crashed.
509
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:29,560
So it was like somebody had
driven just down into the Creek,
510
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:33,000
all careful like.
Of course, the defensive wounds
511
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,680
suggest he fought someone and
they eliminate suicide.
512
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:41,920
I mean to any logical mind, I
mean, I guess I'm doing hand
513
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:46,000
motions, listers I could get, I
guess you could do defensive
514
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:49,640
wounds on yourself, but they.
'D still be angled.
515
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:51,360
Wrong.
Yeah, you're right.
516
00:26:51,360 --> 00:26:53,560
They'd still be angled wrong.
Yeah, it's weird.
517
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:56,120
Despite all this, the FBI has
remained firm.
518
00:26:56,120 --> 00:26:58,920
Probable suicide.
This is the most contested
519
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:02,640
conclusion in the entire case,
meaning that people think all of
520
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:04,880
those other theories are more
likely than suicide.
521
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:08,440
Yeah, I agree.
So Brian Schaefer walked into a
522
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:10,880
bar and vanished.
Jonathan Luna drove into the
523
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:13,520
night and never made it home.
One case looks like a
524
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:15,480
disappearance that shouldn't be
possible.
525
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:17,880
The other looks like a murder
that shouldn't be labeled
526
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:19,040
suicide.
Both.
527
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:22,240
Men left.
Well, it makes me wonder why
528
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:25,840
they're leaning so hard on the
suicide thing, which makes no
529
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,360
sense.
Like you saying, it makes me
530
00:27:28,360 --> 00:27:33,040
wonder if there was some other
secondary gain potential of
531
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:36,160
people saying yes to this.
Or maybe, like we said, someone
532
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,320
in their pocket going, yeah,
well, let me get a suicide
533
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:43,040
because that'll take it off the
table for any other cases or
534
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:44,680
crimes that might be hanging
around.
535
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:46,680
Well, that makes it so it's not
a cold case, right?
536
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,960
Nobody has nobody's allowed to
investigate it.
537
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:52,200
The web sluice can investigate
it.
538
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:55,720
Armchair detectives, right?
But the FBI agents have to move
539
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:57,720
on.
And there's the, you know, they,
540
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:01,640
they, they can't use FBI time to
investigate it because it's not
541
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:02,880
a crime.
It's just a suicide.
542
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:06,560
That's fishy, right?
And we know there's corruption
543
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:11,200
in government agencies and what,
you know, I know, I know.
544
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:15,800
And a lot, a lot more shady shit
goes on than we like to think
545
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:16,880
about.
So who knows?
546
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:18,760
That's for sure, that's for
sure.
547
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:22,880
You know, I was looking at his
stats and he was born 3 days
548
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:25,600
before I was.
Oh my goodness, that means he
549
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:28,760
was born on October 21st.
Yes ma'am, it does.
550
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:31,440
Boom.
He would have been 60 this year
551
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:34,200
as well.
Not lucky him, I guess.
552
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:35,240
Not lucky him, because he's
dead.
553
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:37,360
Not as lucky I I'm.
Preferring to.
554
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:40,000
Be alive.
I'm preferring to be alive, but
555
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:43,520
it's just wild that some of
these theories can happen and
556
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:46,520
and that there's no, there was
no evidence that could connect
557
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:51,760
it to anyone, right?
I saw in the, in the research
558
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:53,600
here, I was just looking at it
while you were talking.
559
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,920
It says that there was a second
set of fingerprints at the
560
00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:01,600
driver's door, but it was never
never found to connect to
561
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:03,440
anyone.
But also, it could have been
562
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:06,600
somebody else that have been in
the car and maybe the
563
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:09,560
fingerprints had been just
attached to the blood or the
564
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:11,840
blood was over them, or I don't
know how fingerprints work
565
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:16,160
exactly.
There was no actual pattern you
566
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:17,880
could get from them or
something.
567
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,320
I don't know.
It's this is the one that a long
568
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:23,480
time ago I was like, there's
this thorough employee and he
569
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:25,680
drives really far away and it's
really weird.
570
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:27,040
This is the one I was telling
you about.
571
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:30,000
So I was, I was happy when I
finally remembered his name.
572
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:33,600
So.
Both men left behind.
573
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:38,360
Devastated families, haunting
evidence and case files that, at
574
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:40,520
least to the public, remain open
puzzles.
575
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:45,400
And in both cases, the single
truth that investigators agree
576
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:47,080
on is the same.
Nothing about these
577
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:49,480
disappearances makes sense.
Now I want to talk about some
578
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:51,880
other mysterious disappoint
disappointments.
579
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,040
I'm seriously.
Mysteriously disappointed.
580
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,320
I love that.
Now I'm going to.
581
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:03,120
OK, now I'm going to talk.
About some other mysterious
582
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:06,440
disappearances, I'm not going to
go into as much detail.
583
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:09,720
And a lot of these are really
well known and some of them
584
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:13,520
maybe not so much.
I my first, my first next case
585
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:17,720
is one that a lot of people
consider there is rent free in
586
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:19,040
their head.
They're top rent free
587
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:21,360
disappearance and that is Mara
Murray.
588
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:23,800
Are you familiar with Mara
Murray's disappearance?
589
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:24,880
No.
OK.
590
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:27,440
So, Mara.
Was born in Massachusetts, the
591
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:30,400
younger, youngest daughter in a
large Irish Catholic family.
592
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:33,400
She was athletic, disciplined,
competitive, a track star, a
593
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:35,640
West Point cadet, and a nursing
student.
594
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:39,280
Mara had ambition in her bones.
She wanted a future full of
595
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:41,160
purpose.
But she also carried pressures,
596
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:43,880
relationship complications, and
what friends described as quiet
597
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:45,640
struggles she didn't always talk
about.
598
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:51,120
On February 9th, 2004, Mara
drove into rural New Hampshire.
599
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:55,880
We still don't know why.
At 7:27 PM, she crashed her car
600
00:30:55,880 --> 00:31:01,040
on a sharp curb near Woodsville.
A school bus driver stopped to
601
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:03,680
check on her.
She seemed shaken, but not
602
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:06,760
injured.
She said she'd already called
603
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:08,640
AAA.
She hadn't.
604
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:10,760
Wow.
Yeah.
605
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:16,520
OK. 7:30 PM.
Three minutes later, 3 minutes
606
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:20,640
later, police arrived.
Mara was gone.
607
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:23,560
No footprints in the snow?
Gone.
608
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:26,720
No footprints in the snow.
No dogs picking up a trail.
609
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:31,840
No evidence of a second car Just
gone, Searchers.
610
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:34,440
Came in three.
Minutes. 3 minutes.
611
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:36,840
The show the snow shows no
tracks.
612
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:39,720
Like I said, cadaver dogs,
search dogs, bloodhounds,
613
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:42,480
nothing.
If Mara left that scene, she
614
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:45,360
didn't do it on foot.
And yet she left.
615
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:48,520
Wow.
OK, like.
616
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:52,320
There are theories that maybe
she fell off a Cliff.
617
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,720
I just don't know why Dogs.
Yeah, exactly.
618
00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:59,040
I just don't know why dogs
wouldn't pick up on that and why
619
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:02,080
they're.
I don't know that it was snowing
620
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:06,400
at the time.
It's it's wild that she lied
621
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:10,000
about calling AAA.
Well, it makes me wonder if
622
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,760
there was someone.
In the car with her or someone
623
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:14,920
hiding under a blanket or
something with a, you know, a
624
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:17,480
gun or a knife or to make her
say that.
625
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:20,560
But even still, if that were the
case and she disappeared, that
626
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,400
means they would have
disappeared, which means unless
627
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:25,240
the car was still there.
Right.
628
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:28,800
And unless they both.
Somehow levitated over the
629
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:33,720
ground, I mean.
I guess what could have happened
630
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:39,520
is some car pulled right up next
to her car and they she
631
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:42,440
transferred into that car from
her car.
632
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:44,040
Or they pulled.
Her.
633
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:45,560
Yeah.
I mean, I don't know.
634
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:47,840
Another thing I don't know.
And again, I didn't like, I said
635
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:49,400
that because I'm doing several
more of these.
636
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:51,840
I didn't go into as much
detailed research as I did on
637
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:55,960
the Jonathan and Brian.
But I wonder if when the bus
638
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:58,880
driver checked on her, if she
was still sitting in her car or
639
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:01,840
if she was standing outside of
her car.
640
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:06,480
It's it's wild.
I, I just OK, so that's Laura
641
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:08,200
Marie.
Just one one thing I wanted to
642
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:09,720
say.
So far in the three people that
643
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:13,520
you've talked about, they've all
had some underlying concerns
644
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:17,920
that they had some stress, big
stressors that they hadn't said
645
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:21,400
anything about that maybe didn't
didn't match their forward
646
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:24,360
facing personalities or or
presentations.
647
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:27,200
Interesting.
The next one is Lars.
648
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:32,560
Mckenk Lars was born in Berlin,
loved soccer, worked steady jobs
649
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:34,200
and had an easygoing
personality.
650
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:37,720
Friends described him as gentle,
goofy and dependable.
651
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:41,120
Nothing in his early life
suggests paranoia, instability
652
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:44,480
or danger.
In 2014, while on vacation in
653
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:48,760
Bulgaria, Lars got into a minor
fight with some soccer fans and
654
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:52,360
suffered A ruptured eardrum.
His doctor told him he couldn't
655
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:55,480
fly until it healed.
That's when everything went
656
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:57,520
wrong.
Bars became paranoid.
657
00:33:57,520 --> 00:33:59,160
He believed someone was
following him.
658
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:03,040
He switched hotels to avoid men.
Air quotes he said, were after
659
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:04,040
him.
He checked.
660
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:07,000
Excuse me?
He texted his mother cryptic
661
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:08,480
messages.
I don't feel safe.
662
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:11,360
Tell me what to do.
At the airport, he was recorded
663
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:14,880
pacing, anxious, hiding in a
corner, then suddenly sprinting
664
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,719
out of the terminal, abandoning
his luggage, running across
665
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:19,880
parking lots and into a dense
field.
666
00:34:20,199 --> 00:34:24,920
He was never seen again.
A healthy.
667
00:34:25,639 --> 00:34:29,440
Yeah, a healthy athletic man
runs into a field beside a busy
668
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:33,080
airport in broad daylight and
vanishes so completely that
669
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:36,960
thermal imaging drones, dogs and
police with helicopters could
670
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:41,040
not find a single trace of him.
It's not just that he ran.
671
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:43,480
It's that he never reappeared.
What?
672
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:47,239
I mean, I'm not laughing at his
disappearance, but it's like,
673
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:49,120
what?
It's exactly what you said what
674
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:51,199
that is, so I don't.
Think.
675
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:55,760
I don't think a ruptured eardrum
would cause paranoia.
676
00:34:56,679 --> 00:34:59,640
Yeah, but if the.
Ruptured eardrum was a diagnosis
677
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:02,120
that also missed a head injury
maybe?
678
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:06,000
What year was this 2000?
14 See, they should have checked
679
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,320
for.
I would think in the 80s maybe
680
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:10,360
they wouldn't check for head
injury because if you've got a
681
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:12,880
ruptured eardrum, like I said,
that could be enough to get a
682
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:14,920
head injury.
But I can't believe that they
683
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:17,640
wouldn't have tested or checked
for it or documented it or
684
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:19,280
something because that could do
it.
685
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:22,080
But that's weird.
It is weird.
686
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:25,320
And I wonder what his mother
responded to him when he
687
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:29,000
responded back to his.
I can't imagine getting texts
688
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,520
like that my kids that would no
way scare the.
689
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:37,160
Hell out of me and so did it say
what she said or did?
690
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:39,840
No, that's weird.
Yeah.
691
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:43,240
And every one of these is just
like, I wonder about the drug
692
00:35:43,240 --> 00:35:46,880
situation potential, you know,
is there some some sort of drug
693
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,680
that he could have been taken
that made him go a little wacky?
694
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:52,120
But it doesn't say anything
about that.
695
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:53,840
It doesn't say it's a history of
drug use.
696
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:55,400
It doesn't say anything like
that.
697
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:58,320
And then I think of things like,
well, maybe in the fight they
698
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:00,600
roofied him or something, but
that should show up when you
699
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:02,120
went to the doctor.
It's not like the fight
700
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:03,520
happened.
And then immediately all the
701
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:06,080
went on, right?
Yeah, well.
702
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:11,560
And he was prescribed cefrazole,
an antibiotic, and maybe he had
703
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:14,360
an allergic reaction to that.
I know that a lot of people
704
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:17,880
theorize that he had a closed
head injury that was missed on
705
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:19,920
examination.
I don't know.
706
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:22,240
I'm one of those people.
Apparently, yeah.
707
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:25,440
Yeah, I don't know.
Where how he got the injury
708
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:28,880
again, I didn't research this is
thoroughly as I did the first
709
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:31,840
two.
Yeah, so just went berserk and
710
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:35,320
ran out of an airport into a
field and never came back out.
711
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:39,840
So I recently heard a whole
episode on this one, but I don't
712
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:41,840
necessarily remember all of the
details.
713
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:46,240
So this is Sneha and Philip.
Snehal was born in India, raised
714
00:36:46,240 --> 00:36:48,800
in upstate New York, and grew up
excelling in school.
715
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:52,040
She was artistic, free spirited,
academically gifted, and
716
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:53,720
eventually attended medical
school.
717
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:56,320
Snehal was the kind of person
who could walk into any room and
718
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:59,320
make it brighter, but she also
struggled with career pressure,
719
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:02,200
relationship complications, in
the weight of trying to live up
720
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:06,440
to family expectations.
On September 10th, 2001.
721
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:11,760
Done.
Done Sneha Sneha went shopping
722
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:14,200
in lower Manhattan.
Security footage shows her
723
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:15,960
buying lingerie and household
items.
724
00:37:16,240 --> 00:37:18,160
She was last seen around 7:00
PM.
725
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:21,880
Then nothing.
Her apartment was untouched, her
726
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:24,760
phone uncalled, her credit
card's unused.
727
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:30,880
No one saw her leave or return
the next morning. 9/11 Happened
728
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:32,720
2.
Planes hit the Twin Towers.
729
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:35,600
Her apartment was blocks from
the towers.
730
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:39,000
Many believe she ran toward the
disaster to help because she was
731
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:42,160
a doctor.
Despite exhaustive
732
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:44,800
investigation, there is no
evidence of her inside the
733
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:47,520
towers.
No hospital logs, no survivor
734
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:52,000
accounts, no remains, no
belonging, no belongings ever
735
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:54,040
recovered.
She lived in one of the most
736
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:57,280
densely populated areas of the
planet and vanished during one
737
00:37:57,280 --> 00:37:59,840
of the most photographed events
in human history.
738
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:05,160
I I know from listening to that
podcast episode from whoever.
739
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:09,720
I can't remember which podcast
it was, but probably small town.
740
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:14,040
Well no small town murder
wouldn't do lower Manhattan so
741
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:17,640
I'm not sure.
But I know that she she was
742
00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:21,600
unhappy in her marriage.
There are theories that she had
743
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:26,160
started dating a woman.
She was unreliable as a doctor
744
00:38:26,240 --> 00:38:29,680
often and people didn't like
working with her.
745
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:32,840
So.
And then the last thing I
746
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:38,320
remember is that for a very long
time she was not listed on the
747
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:41,400
memorial.
And then recently she got listed
748
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:43,520
on the memorial.
That's basically what I know
749
00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:44,880
about her.
They.
750
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:47,280
Couldn't rule out the fact that
she could have been there.
751
00:38:47,720 --> 00:38:50,120
Yeah, exactly.
There were so many people that
752
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:50,640
just.
Never.
753
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:52,960
They found nothing from them,
right?
754
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:56,720
Yeah, exactly.
This is another one that is
755
00:38:56,720 --> 00:38:59,600
pretty famous and you may have
heard of this one.
756
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:01,960
You may have not.
This is Brandon Swanson.
757
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:06,320
Brandon was born in Minnesota,
loved farming, loved cars, and
758
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:08,400
loved learning.
He wasn't a troublemaker, he
759
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:10,720
wasn't impulsive, he wasn't
reckless.
760
00:39:10,720 --> 00:39:13,960
He was simply a normal 19 year
old with college dreams and a
761
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:17,360
tight knit family.
In the early hours of May 14th,
762
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:21,920
2008, Brandon accidentally drove
into a ditch while heading home.
763
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:24,800
He called his parents,
embarrassed but calm.
764
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:27,920
They stayed on the phone while
he walked toward what he
765
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:30,080
believed were the lights of a
nearby town.
766
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:33,560
I do remember this I hate.
This sorry I'm I'm getting.
767
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:37,040
All emotional.
For 47 minutes he talked to his
768
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:39,200
dad.
Calm, rational, describing
769
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:42,360
landmarks.
Then he suddenly said oh shit
770
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:45,480
and the line went silent and he
was never found.
771
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:50,040
The area that he was.
In was flat farmland.
772
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:53,720
There were no cliffs, no
predators, no bodies of water
773
00:39:53,720 --> 00:39:57,360
deep enough to hide a person.
Hundreds of volunteers scoured
774
00:39:57,360 --> 00:39:59,200
the area.
Dogs tracked his scent to a
775
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:01,040
fence line.
And then it stopped cold.
776
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:04,040
It's as if the earth opened up
and took him.
777
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:08,520
You're not on the.
Phone.
778
00:40:08,720 --> 00:40:10,200
I know.
I cannot imagine.
779
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:17,160
Being on the phone with my kid
who's trekking to get help and
780
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:20,240
they say a shit environment,
yeah.
781
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:22,600
And for?
Them to say oh shit and the line
782
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:24,680
goes silent and then never see
them again.
783
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:27,760
Like what could it have meant?
Yeah.
784
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:30,280
What could it have meant?
No.
785
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:32,760
Oh my.
Gosh.
786
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:36,160
We have two more.
The next one I have is this
787
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:38,400
one's another head scratcher.
I mean, I know all of these are
788
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:40,680
obviously head scratches, but
this one is just.
789
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:43,680
This one is Zeb Quinn.
Have you ever heard of this one?
790
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:47,520
Zeb grew up in Asheville.
North Carolina.
791
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:49,480
He was shy, polite, hard
working.
792
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:52,960
He was close, close with his
mother, had no enemies, and had
793
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:55,840
recently started earning money
at Walmart while saving for a
794
00:40:55,840 --> 00:41:00,400
new car.
On January 2nd, 2000, Zeb left
795
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:02,240
work to look at a car listed for
sale.
796
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:05,040
He drove with Co worker Jason
Owens.
797
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:09,560
Owens later claimed Zeb got a
page, panicked and speed off.
798
00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:13,640
No one saw Zeb again.
Two days later, Owens was
799
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:16,080
treated for broken ribs, which
he claimed came from a
800
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:21,240
mysterious car accident.
Nobody reported and then Zeb's
801
00:41:21,240 --> 00:41:23,920
car surfaced.
The seats were adjusted wrong.
802
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:29,440
The headlights were on.
A live puppy was left inside.
803
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:33,800
Lipstick messages were drawn on
the back window and it looked
804
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:37,360
like a ransom note drawn by
someone who had never seen.
805
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:39,440
Sorry.
The lipstick messages looked
806
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:41,960
like a ransom note drawn by
someone who had never seen a
807
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:44,080
ransom note.
What is that?
808
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:48,160
Was it just a lame?
Ransom note or what?
809
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:50,600
Yeah, let me look up.
What it said 'cause I don't
810
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:52,800
remember.
And that seems like a weird
811
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:55,880
thing, right?
Because it seems like if.
812
00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:59,160
They were writing a ransom note
in Oh, it was just lips.
813
00:41:59,160 --> 00:41:59,880
It was.
Just lips.
814
00:41:59,880 --> 00:42:01,520
That's right.
It was just.
815
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:05,840
It was lips drawn on the back
window with lipstick.
816
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:07,520
What?
That's weird too.
817
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:10,840
Yeah, it's the weirdest.
Well, could it have been
818
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:11,440
related?
I.
819
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:14,280
Wonder if they found, I wonder
if they found the car and they
820
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:16,800
just did weird stuff, but maybe
not related.
821
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:18,720
I don't know.
I don't know there.
822
00:42:18,720 --> 00:42:21,320
Are theories that it was
intentionally staged to confuse
823
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:24,160
investigators.
There are theories, of course,
824
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:28,280
that Jason Owens had taken the
car and brought it back.
825
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:31,120
There's a theory that there's a
love triangle.
826
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:35,720
And yeah, I just barely learned
about this one a few months ago.
827
00:42:35,720 --> 00:42:40,760
Also so well, I'm looking.
Online as you're talking, I
828
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:45,560
looked it up, it says 17 years
later on July 10th of 2017,
829
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:49,440
Owens was indicted for the first
degree murder of Quinn and then
830
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:52,400
he pled guilty to the lesser
charge of accessory after the
831
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:55,440
fact to 1st degree murder.
He claimed that his uncle had
832
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:58,680
been hired to murder Quinn by
the boyfriend of a woman who
833
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:01,720
Quinn had been romantically
interested in and that he helped
834
00:43:01,720 --> 00:43:04,280
her uncle.
His uncle covered the murder up
835
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:09,520
and it says that the uncle died
in 2017 and there's not been an
836
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:11,400
arrest for the alleged
instigator.
837
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:14,880
Owen's conviction legally
establishes that Quinn was
838
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:17,080
murdered despite the absence of
his body.
839
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:19,960
So that was when was this
written?
840
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:24,920
It was I'm I'm trying to look
for the the source.
841
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:27,760
But these?
Must be legal facts because they
842
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:30,520
couldn't say that they were
convicted and all of that.
843
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:32,320
Huh?
That's so.
844
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:36,960
Well, 17 years later, they
convicted him of this, but they
845
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:40,800
convicted him of.
Accessory after the fact and so.
846
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:44,760
He said his uncle did.
It so then what's the what's the
847
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:48,960
lipstick in the puppy what's the
puppy Yeah puppy is very.
848
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:53,840
Puppy in this car.
And the car, the car showed back
849
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:56,320
up two weeks later.
So it wasn't even like Zeb
850
00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:58,720
disappeared and then the next
day his car showed up.
851
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:01,360
It was 2 weeks later.
It's that is weird.
852
00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:04,880
I wonder if Owen Owen's.
Stole.
853
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:07,240
A car and maybe.
That he put the puppy in it and
854
00:44:07,240 --> 00:44:09,920
all that stuff to just set them
off track.
855
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:12,040
I mean, it did for 17 years,
apparently.
856
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:13,680
Yeah.
Well, yeah.
857
00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:14,920
I don't know.
I don't know.
858
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:18,160
That's wild.
Yeah, it is very wild.
859
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:21,320
Anyway, I just was.
Reading that on here and that's
860
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:22,680
crazy.
No worries at all.
861
00:44:22,720 --> 00:44:27,600
The last.
File I have is Phoenix Colden.
862
00:44:27,720 --> 00:44:30,680
Phoenix was raised in a deeply
religious home in Saint Louis.
863
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:34,160
She was homeschooled, brilliant,
athletic, A gifted fencer, a
864
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:36,840
musician, someone who shined in
everything she tried.
865
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:39,320
Her parents were strict,
structured, and protective.
866
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:43,840
Phoenix learned to excel and to
hide parts of her life she
867
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:47,480
feared they wouldn't approve of.
On December 18th, 2011, Phoenix
868
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:51,760
walked out of the front door,
got into her 1998 Chevy Blazer,
869
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:54,080
and drove away.
No fight, no stress, nothing
870
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:57,280
unusual.
At 3:00 PM, her car was found 25
871
00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:01,800
minutes away, still running,
door open with her purse, shoes
872
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:04,040
and ID inside, keys in the
ignition.
873
00:45:04,720 --> 00:45:09,200
No foul play, no footprints, no
signs of a struggle, no
874
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:10,960
sightings.
She evaporated.
875
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:13,520
It turned out that Phoenix had a
second life.
876
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:16,160
A secret boyfriend, secret
e-mail accounts, a secret
877
00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:19,760
outside identity she kept under
layers of privacy, and yet
878
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:22,400
nothing in that double life
explained why she would vanish
879
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:25,520
from a running car without
taking anything with her.
880
00:45:25,720 --> 00:45:30,320
So it's like, oh, OK, so she has
a secret life, a secret second
881
00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:31,880
life.
Case solved.
882
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:35,200
But then it's like, Nope, But
she didn't show up in that life.
883
00:45:35,240 --> 00:45:37,200
Either she didn't show up in
that life either.
884
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:39,160
Exactly.
Well, I just again keep.
885
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:42,240
Really thinking about the fact
that every one of these people
886
00:45:42,240 --> 00:45:47,480
were super high achievers and it
sounded like all of them had
887
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:51,360
some underlying situation or
something they were worried
888
00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:55,480
about coming to light because
maybe that that performance that
889
00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:58,840
they've been making, it was so
strong that they had to do
890
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:00,480
something else.
Obviously the murders are a
891
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:02,880
little bit different, but I just
wow.
892
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:05,400
It just makes me wonder.
And also I think about the
893
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:09,440
pressure that people feel to
look a certain way when that
894
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:11,600
they can't maintain it.
That's wild.
895
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:12,680
Absolutely.
Wild.
896
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:14,040
That's terrible.
So hard on the.
897
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:17,600
Families, yeah, for sure these.
Aren't just disappearances.
898
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:21,160
These are anomalies.
Each one violates something we
899
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:23,600
normally trust.
Cameras catch people entering
900
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:25,720
and exiting.
Footsteps leave prints in the
901
00:46:25,720 --> 00:46:27,760
snow.
Cars don't stage themselves.
902
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:30,480
People don't vanish mid
sentence.
903
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:33,160
Towns don't swallow people
whole.
904
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:36,280
Time doesn't pause for one woman
in Manhattan while the biggest
905
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:38,120
disaster in modern history
unfolds.
906
00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:40,840
And yet each of these stories
ends the same way.
907
00:46:41,240 --> 00:46:44,440
A living, breathing, dreaming
human being there one moment,
908
00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:47,320
gone the next, and the world
offers no explanation.
909
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:50,400
In the realm of true crime,
we're used to mysteries.
910
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:54,640
But these aren't mysteries.
These are fractures, places
911
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:57,360
where reality bent, cracked, and
then snap shut.
912
00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:01,040
And the people who fell through,
we still have no idea where they
913
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:03,720
went.
Wow.
914
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:08,000
You know, and even in the most
innocent case scenario with some
915
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:10,520
of these people that, you know,
they were never found dead, like
916
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:15,400
the Zeb, they assumed he was
dead since somebody said, yes, I
917
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:17,640
killed him.
So there was that, but they
918
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:20,280
never found a body.
Well, nobody said yes, I killed
919
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:23,400
him.
The uncle, the Owens said my
920
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:25,160
uncle killed him.
The uncle never confessed.
921
00:47:25,160 --> 00:47:27,920
The uncle died of a heart
attack, investigators said.
922
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:30,560
We determined through our
investigation that yes, the
923
00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:34,320
uncle killed him, but there was
like no trial, no charges, no
924
00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:36,960
confession.
So to the uncle, but.
925
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:40,560
But then Owens went to prison.
Yeah, but he went to prison for.
926
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:43,880
Accessory after the fact.
So, right, so there's something.
927
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:46,120
He did whatever that well, Yeah,
that.
928
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:48,560
They're saying the uncle did it.
I'm not saying I'm not saying he
929
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:50,440
didn't.
I'm just saying like we it's
930
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:54,480
still it's still an open book
because we didn't get nobody
931
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:58,200
explained the puppy or the
lipstick or all the parts that
932
00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:00,360
don't make.
The sense.
933
00:48:01,240 --> 00:48:03,400
But the.
Ones who disappeared.
934
00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:10,200
It just makes me wonder if they
were so desperate to just go and
935
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:13,200
the the people who could have
done that, I'm not saying they
936
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:15,920
did necessarily, but they could
have done it, were high
937
00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:18,720
achievers to the point that they
probably create a whole new
938
00:48:18,720 --> 00:48:20,320
life.
And there are places I
939
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:23,320
understand that can be done.
It's harder and harder in this
940
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:26,760
day and age, as it were.
I was in this day and age
941
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:30,960
because there are cameras
everywhere, there are resources
942
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:33,600
there, jobs like the doctor
person.
943
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:36,120
She probably didn't keep working
as a doctor, if that, if she
944
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:39,000
really did disappear because she
apparently wasn't that great
945
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:40,240
anyway and she would have known
that.
946
00:48:40,240 --> 00:48:42,080
Well, she didn't like it either,
so.
947
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:44,160
She didn't want to be a doctor,
right?
948
00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:47,000
And any but.
Anything that is medical or
949
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:49,600
teaching or many, many careers
have to have life.
950
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:54,880
I mean, excuse me, fingerprints
on record because they can see
951
00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:58,040
if they've done anything wrong
before when they're dealing with
952
00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:01,920
the public like that.
And maybe a barista forever is,
953
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:03,920
and there's nothing wrong with
being a barista, but it's
954
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:05,960
somebody that maybe isn't being
fingerprinted.
955
00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:08,960
Jobs that don't get
fingerprints, a person could
956
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:12,120
recreate their lives.
But still, I don't think it's
957
00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:13,840
that easy.
I don't either.
958
00:49:14,080 --> 00:49:16,200
I mean.
I don't ever think about it
959
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:18,160
because I don't.
I like my life and I don't want
960
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:19,920
to leave it.
But I'll go try.
961
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:21,360
I'll see what?
Happens.
962
00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:22,200
OK.
Thank you.
963
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:24,400
I appreciate it.
I'll tell you where I'm going.
964
00:49:24,760 --> 00:49:29,560
In Mexico, but I'll try.
But Holly and I talked about
965
00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:32,600
how, for example, it's not
illegal to fake your own death.
966
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:35,400
It's illegal to commit an
insurance fraud.
967
00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:37,560
So it's illegal to fake your own
death and then collect your
968
00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:39,720
insurance.
You don't have your spouse or
969
00:49:39,720 --> 00:49:41,240
whatever collect the life
insurance.
970
00:49:41,240 --> 00:49:44,240
But if you just fake your own
death and disappear, totally
971
00:49:44,240 --> 00:49:45,160
legal.
What?
972
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:47,800
Yeah, I guess I've never thought
of.
973
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:51,080
Faking my own death and why
would I probably read a book
974
00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:53,840
that's the only.
Reason it came up I mean to
975
00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:56,320
fake.
I could see doing it if a person
976
00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:59,640
was in a witness protection
program or something, but I'm
977
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:01,560
not sure why I asked the person
would fake their death.
978
00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:04,520
I I didn't read the book, so I.
Don't know but whoever wrote
979
00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:07,360
this book, they faked their own
death and then they explained
980
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:10,640
how they went about it and but
there was some guy that was out.
981
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:12,760
Kayaking and disappeared.
I remember that.
982
00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:15,600
And he faked his own death.
I mean, he faked his death.
983
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:18,800
He's flipped over or something.
And but he did knocked out.
984
00:50:19,120 --> 00:50:21,400
But he got big trouble.
Yeah, he did have his.
985
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:23,480
Wife collect life insurance.
Yeah, exactly.
986
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:24,520
That was a.
Different thing.
987
00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:26,080
He's the one that lived next
door to her.
988
00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:28,360
And then would sneak out when
visitors came and all of that.
989
00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:32,080
Yeah.
Which is pretty wild.
990
00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:35,000
I mean, like, gosh, you.
It's another one of those things
991
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:38,960
where people work so hard to
create this new reality that it
992
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:41,960
seems like it's a lot worse than
more work than what they were
993
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:45,160
trying to avoid in the 1st
place, and I can't remember why.
994
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:47,440
He did it except.
For I I know they were in
995
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:51,120
financial stress, but again, it
seems like he worked so hard to
996
00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:54,240
get out of that financial stress
by doing something way more
997
00:50:54,240 --> 00:50:56,640
stressful, right?
No kidding.
998
00:50:56,840 --> 00:50:58,800
Especially when you can file
bankruptcy if you're in that
999
00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:00,840
much stress, Yeah, or whatever
or.
1000
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:04,600
Just, I don't know.
But wow, these mysterious
1001
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:06,920
disappearances, though, I've
heard a few of them in different
1002
00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:10,000
podcasts and that kind of thing,
and it just, I don't know, I
1003
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:12,240
want to say it's creepy.
I don't know if that's the right
1004
00:51:12,240 --> 00:51:14,760
word, but it's unsettling.
Haunting.
1005
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:18,080
Yeah, that would be a good.
Word, knowing that these things
1006
00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:24,280
have happened and there's no
explanation, and I mean, not
1007
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:28,320
that I think this would happen
to me because why, but it still
1008
00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:30,680
can happen.
Stranger things have happened.
1009
00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:33,120
Definitely true.
I mean, these happened.
1010
00:51:33,160 --> 00:51:36,960
Right.
Like there may be some plausible
1011
00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:39,480
theories, but we still don't
know what happened.
1012
00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:42,720
You know, in the end, with all
of these cases, we still don't
1013
00:51:42,720 --> 00:51:47,360
know what happened.
And I mean, if I were to, I
1014
00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:50,960
mean, I don't even have a theory
for Mara Murray other than the
1015
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:54,240
one I guess I just said maybe
some car pulled up next to her
1016
00:51:54,240 --> 00:51:57,360
car and drag dragged her or
transferred her out of her car
1017
00:51:57,360 --> 00:52:00,600
into their car.
So there were no footprints and
1018
00:52:00,720 --> 00:52:03,800
there's going to be tire tracks
on the road regardless because
1019
00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:06,840
there's.
Rocks and things like that, but
1020
00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:08,480
most places will leave
something.
1021
00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:11,960
Yeah, I'm trying to.
Think if I have any theories
1022
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:17,040
that I didn't outline in this in
this episode, but I just, I
1023
00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:21,400
mean, the puppy is one that is
like, yeah, that's just weird.
1024
00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:24,040
What and if?
Somebody is trying to.
1025
00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:26,960
Throw somebody else off track,
It's it still doesn't make
1026
00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:28,920
sense.
I mean, I guess.
1027
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:32,560
I guess maybe it's like, think
of the most bizarre thing you
1028
00:52:32,560 --> 00:52:36,040
could do with this car to throw
investigators off.
1029
00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:39,400
That's pretty bizarre.
As far as Brandon Swanson, the
1030
00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:42,680
one that was on the phone with
his dad, I, I just, he was
1031
00:52:42,720 --> 00:52:46,640
talking to his dad.
I don't know.
1032
00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:49,080
And that was so.
Creepy.
1033
00:52:49,120 --> 00:52:52,480
I can't even imagine how
haunting it had to be a person
1034
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:54,320
and I say.
That because he says, oh shit.
1035
00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:57,640
Then the line went dead.
So in my mind, somebody grabbed
1036
00:52:57,640 --> 00:53:00,280
the phone in that moment and
shut it or or turned it off or
1037
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:01,640
whatever.
I don't remember what year this
1038
00:53:01,640 --> 00:53:03,160
was.
Let's see, was it a flip phone?
1039
00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:08,520
2008.
Probably not, but still like I
1040
00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:14,120
think he he came upon a person
and remember the dogs did trace
1041
00:53:14,120 --> 00:53:17,040
him to a fence line and then it
was just so there's probably a
1042
00:53:17,040 --> 00:53:19,200
car or a tractor or something at
that fence line.
1043
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:22,880
Who knows.
It's literally phenomenon
1044
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:23,960
phenomenal.
I mean.
1045
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:28,760
One of those things that's just
wild.
1046
00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:31,920
And and I just, I keep thinking
about the poor dad.
1047
00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:35,600
Yeah, same.
I can't even imagine.
1048
00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:40,160
I wonder if his dad was very,
very far away from him, if
1049
00:53:40,240 --> 00:53:44,280
that's why he didn't like we'll
go to him, you know, I don't
1050
00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:47,520
think so, because I think.
I remember the story and I
1051
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:51,000
thought he was near home.
I thought he was too.
1052
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:53,400
But.
I'm not 100% sure.
1053
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:55,560
I'm going to look it up because
now I want to know.
1054
00:53:55,720 --> 00:53:58,040
Now I want to know better
listeners, and I'll better
1055
00:53:58,040 --> 00:54:02,320
listeners do too, hopefully.
Because we're going to find out.
1056
00:54:03,320 --> 00:54:04,600
That's just so.
Wild though.
1057
00:54:04,640 --> 00:54:08,280
And so amazingly unsettling, it
really is.
1058
00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:11,040
And you know we.
As parents want to keep our kids
1059
00:54:11,040 --> 00:54:17,600
safe and it seems like there was
no way to do that in that
1060
00:54:17,600 --> 00:54:20,520
scenario especially.
OK, let's see what we got here.
1061
00:54:20,720 --> 00:54:26,760
So he was in a ditch in Lind,
Minnesota and Brian is his dad.
1062
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:30,760
Brian and his mom and net were
in Marshall, MN.
1063
00:54:31,480 --> 00:54:34,200
So let's see.
Oh my gosh, he was only 10
1064
00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:35,960
minutes away.
I cannot believe that he was
1065
00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:39,280
walking around for 47 minutes
and his dad was 10 minutes away.
1066
00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:43,160
No, no shade on his dad.
That just makes me sadder.
1067
00:54:44,120 --> 00:54:46,640
Well, yeah, I mean to me.
There was no reason to be
1068
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:48,240
worried.
There's no reason.
1069
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:50,280
He was just walking to get help.
OK?
1070
00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:53,000
He was probably going to go find
a phone or, well, I don't know
1071
00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:54,600
why he'd need a phone because
they have phone in his hand.
1072
00:54:54,600 --> 00:54:56,400
But I don't know.
That's just weird.
1073
00:54:56,400 --> 00:54:58,600
And it's possible if he was that
close, he could have known
1074
00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:00,600
someone.
Yeah.
1075
00:55:00,840 --> 00:55:03,200
True, that's wild.
I don't know.
1076
00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:05,680
It's just one of those weird,
weird things.
1077
00:55:06,040 --> 00:55:08,440
As you say, it's unsolved, so
that's not good.
1078
00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:11,240
I don't know.
That's just why it is sad.
1079
00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:13,520
There's so much that people go.
Through.
1080
00:55:13,840 --> 00:55:17,000
Well, that was really
interesting, and I hope we never
1081
00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:20,880
get to try and figure out some
weird mystery of our families
1082
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:21,880
disappearing.
Yeah.
1083
00:55:21,880 --> 00:55:25,520
No kidding.
Well, thank you very much.
1084
00:55:26,280 --> 00:55:27,280
All right.
You're very welcome.
1085
00:55:27,680 --> 00:55:30,160
Thanks for listening, everybody.
All right, if you've made it
1086
00:55:30,160 --> 00:55:32,440
this far.
Clearly you like a little mayhem
1087
00:55:32,440 --> 00:55:34,840
with your medicine, or you just
enjoy hearing us.
1088
00:55:34,840 --> 00:55:36,680
Ramble about weird medical
mysteries.
1089
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:40,040
Either way, we'd love you for
it, so hit that follow or.
1090
00:55:40,040 --> 00:55:43,000
Subscribe button wherever you're
listening and toss us a rating
1091
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:45,520
or review while.
You're at It helps other curious
1092
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:48,560
weirdos find the show, and we
know there are a.
1093
00:55:48,560 --> 00:55:51,200
Lot of you out there.
Oh, so many.
1094
00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:53,600
Come join the chaos.
Thanks for listening to
1095
00:55:53,600 --> 00:55:56,320
Medicine.
Mystery, mayhem and sometimes
1096
00:55:56,320 --> 00:55:58,400
murder.
Do you have an idea for an
1097
00:55:58,400 --> 00:55:59,800
episode?
Of this podcast.
1098
00:56:00,240 --> 00:56:03,320
Just want to say hi.
You can get in touch with us at
1099
00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:07,840
our M4 pod.
That's OURM
1100
00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:14,360
thenumberfourpod@gmail.com.
We read every e-mail, and
1101
00:56:14,360 --> 00:56:17,720
sometimes we even respond just
like real professionals.
1102
00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:20,760
Because we are.
Old friends with new.
1103
00:56:20,760 --> 00:56:24,040
Twists and lots of body bags.
00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:11,360
Welcome to M4 Medicine, mystery,
mayhem, and sometimes murder.
2
00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:14,920
I'm Andrea Marciano and RN with
35 years of experience across
3
00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:17,080
various fields.
From direct patient care in
4
00:00:17,080 --> 00:00:19,800
hospitals to home health,
geriatrics, and injury medicine,
5
00:00:20,080 --> 00:00:22,200
I face life, death, and
everything in between.
6
00:00:22,240 --> 00:00:25,720
And I'm Crystal Miller and RN
with 13 1/2 years of experience.
7
00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:28,960
My work spans home health,
Hospice, emergency care,
8
00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:30,680
geriatrics, and occupational
health.
9
00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:33,640
From the chaos of trauma based
quiet moments with patients,
10
00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:35,920
I've seen stories that defy
explanations.
11
00:00:36,160 --> 00:00:39,720
We've been friends for over 25
years and as nurses we've shared
12
00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:44,040
countless stories that have left
us and our families speechless.
13
00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:47,120
Now we're bringing those stories
and many more to you in
14
00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:52,240
medicine, mystery, mayhem, and
sometimes murder.
15
00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:56,040
Each week, we'll uncover cases
that challenge the boundaries of
16
00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:58,600
medicine, sharing the human
stories behind the science.
17
00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:01,520
From puzzling medical mysteries
to shocking real life crimes,
18
00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:04,239
we'll bring you stories that'll
leave you questioning everything
19
00:01:04,239 --> 00:01:06,720
you thought you knew while.
We're both experiencing nurses.
20
00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:09,920
We want to make it clear we're
not here to give medical advice.
21
00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:12,520
This podcast is about
storytelling, education and
22
00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:15,720
exploration, not diagnosing or
treating medical conditions.
23
00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:21,080
This is medicine, mystery,
mayhem and sometimes murder.
24
00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:23,240
Let's dive in.
Hey, Crystal, how are you doing?
25
00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:27,320
I'm well.
And you're lying because you
26
00:01:27,320 --> 00:01:30,840
have a cold.
I do have a cold so I'm trying
27
00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:33,520
to not sniffle as much as
possible, but I do have a cold.
28
00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:36,320
So, dear listeners, when editing
happens, I'll try and edit
29
00:01:36,320 --> 00:01:38,280
sniffles out, but sometimes I
cannot.
30
00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:41,240
Anyway, Well, I hope you feel.
Better thank you.
31
00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:44,160
You know, I just covered.
Well, there you go.
32
00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:47,920
I just discovered that
electronics can be a pain.
33
00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:52,200
You just discovered that, huh?
I did just discover that, and
34
00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:57,200
the thing that made me discover
that is when I spilled my beer
35
00:01:57,200 --> 00:02:01,160
on my keyboard.
It broke the keyboard and that's
36
00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:03,320
a pain.
That's weird.
37
00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:08,280
I know that's what I thought.
You know, some things are really
38
00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:11,880
difficult problems to solve.
I have realized that having beer
39
00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:13,680
near my keyboard is not working
for me.
40
00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:15,840
Have you had any experiences
like that?
41
00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:20,480
I certainly have.
I have spilled plenty of things
42
00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:24,600
on plenty of keyboards.
It's funny that Holly likes to
43
00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:29,400
go around cursing at technology.
She's not quite a Luddite, but
44
00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:33,040
I'll tell you, she's like much
more close to being a Luddite
45
00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:34,840
than to being like I am.
Who?
46
00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:38,680
I'm not an early, early adopter,
but I'm definitely like an early
47
00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:42,360
ish adopter.
We kind of don't see eye to eye
48
00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:45,720
on technology.
So like I have salt and pepper
49
00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:49,000
grinders that are electronic
that you can plug in to USB cord
50
00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:52,080
to charge, but she hates those.
She just wants to grind her own
51
00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:54,560
pepper and shake salt.
It's funny, she hates
52
00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:55,920
technology.
I understand that.
53
00:02:55,920 --> 00:02:58,360
I have grinders that I do back
in the old fashioned way.
54
00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:01,360
The salt and pepper both grind
and I use.
55
00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:04,440
I pick it up and I twist it.
The good news is I've never
56
00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:07,280
spilled beer on my salt or
pepper grinders.
57
00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:10,680
Thank goodness.
I know some things are so
58
00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:13,640
difficult to deal with.
Anyway, so I've recently
59
00:03:13,640 --> 00:03:17,320
replaced my keys board because
while I thought the keyboard was
60
00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:20,280
going to be OK, I started having
some sticking issues with the
61
00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:22,080
keys.
Beer is sticky.
62
00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:27,680
Yeah, you know, anyway, that's
in my recent very large trauma
63
00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:30,480
in my life, which of course, as
we all know, is really not much
64
00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:34,080
of A trauma, but just thought
I'd share.
65
00:03:34,640 --> 00:03:35,880
So what do you have for us
today?
66
00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:39,040
Today I've got some really
interesting stories.
67
00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:42,400
They are about, it's about
mysterious disappearances or
68
00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:45,760
even illogical disappearances or
impossible disappearances.
69
00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:48,200
I'm really excited.
So there are disappearances that
70
00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:49,960
are tragic.
There are disappearances that
71
00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:52,920
are suspicious, and then there
are disappearances that feel
72
00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:56,080
like the universe glitched,
reality ripped, or a person fell
73
00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:58,560
straight through the floor.
These are not just missing
74
00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:00,240
persons.
These are cases where the
75
00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:03,440
evidence is wrong, the camera
footage is wrong, the route
76
00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:05,600
taken is wrong, the outcome is
impossible.
77
00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:08,120
Tonight I'm walking you through
several of the most chilling,
78
00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:11,360
logic defying vanishing.
As we know, each one is its own
79
00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:14,080
sealed mystery.
Each one breaks a different rule
80
00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:17,360
of reality, and all of them
remind us that every once in a
81
00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:20,240
while, the world does something
it should not be able to do.
82
00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:24,560
I have a ton of sources, so I'm,
rather than naming them, I'm
83
00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:25,960
just going to put them in the
show notes.
84
00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:28,400
I mean like a ton because
because like I said, I'm doing
85
00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:31,760
several stories and each of
those stories has several
86
00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:34,000
sources.
I'm going to focus first on two
87
00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:36,520
men who seem to have done, who
seem to have done something that
88
00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:39,480
should be physically impossible.
One walked into a crowded bar
89
00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:42,280
filled with cameras and
witnesses and never walked out.
90
00:04:42,280 --> 00:04:45,080
The other left his desk at a
federal courthouse in the middle
91
00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:48,440
of the night and embarked on a
100 mile drive he didn't seem to
92
00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:51,200
know he was taking, leaving
behind his glasses, his phone,
93
00:04:51,280 --> 00:04:54,240
and his wallet, until his car
was found idling in a stream
94
00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:57,360
with him, murdered inside it, in
a town he had never been to.
95
00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:00,080
And in both cases, the
surveillance footage, the
96
00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:03,040
evidence, the logic, the
sequence of events, none of it
97
00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:05,440
makes sense.
Not then, not now.
98
00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:09,480
These stories are of Brian
Schaefer and Jonathan Luna. 2
99
00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:13,440
disappearances, 1 of vanishing,
one of death that remains so
100
00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:16,800
inexplicable that even seasoned
detectives describe them as
101
00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:20,040
cases that shouldn't exist.
This episode contains Oh.
102
00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:22,080
Please.
I was going to say are they
103
00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:24,960
related cases though or they're
just two cases that happened?
104
00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:26,760
Nope.
They're just two cases that
105
00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:27,880
happened.
And like I said, these are the
106
00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:31,120
two I'm focusing on more than
the rest that I'm going to share
107
00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:33,120
with you.
So I have more details for these
108
00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:36,120
two because they're the ones
that I'm the most familiar with
109
00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:38,760
and that baffle me.
Because I think I've heard of
110
00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:40,480
that one, but I don't remember
any details.
111
00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:43,880
So I'm excited because I
remember reading something about
112
00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:47,520
it that he had left the stuff
and just sort of wandered off
113
00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:50,480
and they didn't have any idea
where he was for a while, if I
114
00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:52,520
remember correctly.
So you tell.
115
00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:55,480
OK, this episode contains
mystery, unanswered questions,
116
00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:59,120
and and investigative dead ends
that feel like they were
117
00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:02,040
scripted by the universe itself.
Before he became the center of
118
00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:05,040
one of one of America's most
talked about missing person
119
00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:08,680
mysteries, Brian Schaefer was
simply a 27 year old Ohio State
120
00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:10,960
medical student.
He looked like the kind of guy
121
00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:13,000
you'd cast in a commercial for
healthy living.
122
00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:16,720
Tall, lean, athletic, with an
easy smile his friends describe
123
00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:20,880
as chill but driven, The sort of
person who would ace an exam and
124
00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:23,640
still be the first one to
suggest margaritas afterward.
125
00:06:24,280 --> 00:06:27,880
Brian was born in Pickerington,
OH, the oldest of two boys.
126
00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:30,480
From the time he was little, he
was the kid who made things look
127
00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:33,280
easy.
He was bright, athletic, played
128
00:06:33,280 --> 00:06:36,240
baseball, got good grades, and
made friends wherever he went.
129
00:06:36,840 --> 00:06:40,120
People who knew him described
him as genuinely kind in that
130
00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:43,920
unforced way some people have.
He had an almost effortless
131
00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:45,880
charisma, not showing, just
warm.
132
00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:48,960
He wasn't the kid who tried to
impress anyone, he was the kid
133
00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:51,480
who somehow managed to impress
everyone anyway.
134
00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:54,480
He loved his family.
He was especially close to his
135
00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:56,680
mom, Renee.
Brian entered medical school at
136
00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:58,920
Ohio State, a huge
accomplishment that he took
137
00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:00,680
seriously.
Still, he wasn't the
138
00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:03,080
stereotypical all work, no play
Med student.
139
00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:06,520
He talked constantly about
travel, music, beaches, islands
140
00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:09,440
and the world.
His girlfriend, Alexis, believe
141
00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:11,240
their lives were headed toward
marriage.
142
00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:14,440
But beneath the exterior was
someone quietly carrying the
143
00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:17,480
weight of recent heartbreak.
Brian's mother had died suddenly
144
00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:20,600
of myelodysplasia just weeks
earlier.
145
00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:24,160
He was devastated but trying to
keep moving, talking about
146
00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:26,720
taking a beach trip with his
girlfriend, dreaming about
147
00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:29,960
finishing Med school, dreaming
bigger, about running away to a
148
00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:33,560
tropical place permanently.
He used to tell Alexis life's
149
00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:35,280
too short not to live on a
beach.
150
00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:39,720
This becomes important later.
It was April 1st, 2006.
151
00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:41,480
The Saturday before spring
break.
152
00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:44,480
Brian decided to go out with his
friend Clint Florence.
153
00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:48,240
They hit a few bars near the OSU
campus, and that's Ohio State
154
00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:50,520
University.
Not to be mistaken for Oklahoma
155
00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:54,440
State University eventually
ending up at an OSU student
156
00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:59,280
favorite, the Ugly Tuna Saluna.
At 1:15 AM, security cameras
157
00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:02,360
caught Brian riding up the
escalator to the bar's entrance.
158
00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:05,600
See, this is interesting because
I can quote UN quote visualize
159
00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:07,560
that because I've seen this
surveillance footage so many
160
00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:10,600
times that I can I I see it in
my head.
161
00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:13,000
Of course, I don't actually see
it because of a Fantasia.
162
00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:15,720
If you haven't listened to our a
Fantasia episode, please do.
163
00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:18,480
The best I can explain is just I
don't know.
164
00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:22,800
I I wish I, I wish I had words
for it, but I can air quote, see
165
00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:25,960
him coming up the escalator,
he's standing next to somebody
166
00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:27,200
and it just, it's just
interesting.
167
00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:30,360
I just wanted to interject that
because like it for my entire
168
00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:33,120
life, that's what visualizing in
my mind has been.
169
00:08:33,159 --> 00:08:35,559
There's no visual, but it's
still there.
170
00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:37,919
So anyway.
It's just interesting to me.
171
00:08:37,919 --> 00:08:40,280
I know we've talked about this
several times because it's just,
172
00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:43,440
it's hard to relate to not
having a Fantasia.
173
00:08:43,919 --> 00:08:45,560
And I can vision all these
things.
174
00:08:45,560 --> 00:08:49,720
So I feel like part of it is
you've got the memory of it as
175
00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:52,440
far as, you know, what it looks
like for someone to go up an
176
00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:53,840
elevator.
You know what it looks like for
177
00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:56,360
someone to come out of the
elevator, So how that I'm
178
00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:57,520
talking?
About an escalator.
179
00:08:57,960 --> 00:08:58,840
Right.
That one too.
180
00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:01,680
Elevator, escalator, one of
those moving things that's
181
00:09:01,680 --> 00:09:05,240
funny, but you've seen it, so
you can sort of remember it I
182
00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:08,280
think more than.
Yeah, so security cameras caught
183
00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:10,360
Brian riding up the escalator to
the bar's entrance.
184
00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:13,880
He smiles, sways a little from
the drinks he's already had and
185
00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:16,480
chats casually with Clint and
another friend, Meredith.
186
00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:20,240
This is the last confirmed
footage of Brian Schaefer alive.
187
00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:24,240
So shortly before 2:00 AM, Brian
reportedly told Clint he was
188
00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:27,640
going to talk to the band.
Clint and Meredith assumed he'd
189
00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:29,800
meet them outside afterward.
He never did.
190
00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:32,360
And this is where the story gets
bizarre.
191
00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:36,680
The bar had one public entrance,
the escalator Brian had been
192
00:09:36,680 --> 00:09:39,240
seen coming up on in the
surveillance footage.
193
00:09:39,680 --> 00:09:42,480
If he left, he should have been
caught on the exit camera.
194
00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:44,480
The police reviewed hours of
tape.
195
00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:46,680
There was no sign of him
leaving.
196
00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:50,840
Not through the escalator, not
through the emergency exits, not
197
00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:53,400
disguised, not ducking behind
anyone.
198
00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:58,200
Brian Schaefer walked into a bar
and simply didn't walk out.
199
00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:02,600
Detectives were not amused by
the air quotes.
200
00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:05,480
Supernatural vibes this case was
giving.
201
00:10:05,560 --> 00:10:08,320
They immediately began
considering practical
202
00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:10,800
explanations. 1 He left in a
crowd.
203
00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:12,800
Nope.
Video shows every exit.
204
00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:15,960
No Brian.
Two, he changed clothes or put
205
00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:18,680
on a hat.
Police reviewed frame by frame.
206
00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:21,560
No, Brian.
So why the heck would you do
207
00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:23,520
that?
Right, right.
208
00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:27,080
That's weird.
Three, he used an emergency
209
00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:29,120
exit.
That staircase was under
210
00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:31,640
construction and would have
dropped him into an area sealed
211
00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:34,800
by security fencing. 4 He never
left the bar.
212
00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:38,960
Police searched the Ugly Tuna
Saluna from attic to basement
213
00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:42,600
with no results.
This lack of exit is still the
214
00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:45,200
single biggest reason the case
remains one of the most
215
00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:47,760
confounding disappearances in
modern history.
216
00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:51,280
Police ruled out the idea of
Brian disappearing intentionally
217
00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:54,360
almost immediately.
He didn't use his bank account,
218
00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:56,280
his cell phone or his credit
cards.
219
00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:59,600
There were no signings, no
activity, nothing.
220
00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:05,040
The one moment that gave people
hope was in 2006 when Alexis,
221
00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:08,360
his girlfriend, called his phone
and heard it ring instead of
222
00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:11,840
going straight to voicemail.
For reference, this was about
223
00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:14,560
6:00-ish months after he had
disappeared.
224
00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:17,240
Oh, and so she kind of randomly
called him.
225
00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:19,800
Yeah, I used to do that with
Art's cell phone until his
226
00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:22,040
voicemail stopped.
You know, his outgoing message?
227
00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:24,240
Well, it was disconnected.
I would call just to listen to
228
00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:26,040
his outgoing message.
So maybe she was doing the same
229
00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:28,440
thing.
So phone companies later
230
00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:31,480
explained this was likely due to
a system ping, not because the
231
00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:33,920
phone was active.
For Alexis, it was crushing.
232
00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:36,800
She left him voicemails and
ended every voicemail with I
233
00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:38,080
love you.
Please come home.
234
00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:40,960
So there are many, many
theories.
235
00:11:41,560 --> 00:11:44,680
None are satisfying one.
Again, did Brian decide to run
236
00:11:44,680 --> 00:11:46,560
away to beach life like you
talked about?
237
00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:49,520
Unlikely.
All evidence to all evidence
238
00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:52,200
suggests he was planning a
future with Alexis and was
239
00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:58,320
deeply connected to his family.
And then again, no exit that
240
00:11:58,320 --> 00:11:59,120
seems.
Important.
241
00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:03,120
Yeah, another theory is an
accident inside the bar.
242
00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:06,240
Some theorize Brian May have
slipped into a restricted area,
243
00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:08,960
fallen and been disposed of
accidentally or intentionally,
244
00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:12,680
but the building was searched
thoroughly multiple times. 3
245
00:12:12,680 --> 00:12:16,720
Even like overhead exits and
attic space or something like
246
00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:19,520
that.
They say basement to attic is
247
00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:22,200
how they describe the searches,
so I imagine.
248
00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:25,640
Oh yeah, again, why?
I mean, if he wanted to leave,
249
00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:27,440
there was nothing stopping him
anyway.
250
00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:30,760
Right, so this is my.
This is my theory.
251
00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:34,880
I think this, I don't think it's
an accident actually, I think
252
00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:38,960
that he was put into like a
garbage bag and just taken out
253
00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:41,480
with all the regular trash
because nobody searches that,
254
00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:43,880
right?
And let's say that there was,
255
00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:47,280
let's say that the whatever foul
play there was, it didn't cause
256
00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:50,120
a lot of blood or or no blood or
whatever, right?
257
00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:53,320
I personally think he was
removed from the building in
258
00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:58,280
some sort of container that did
not indicate any semblance of
259
00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:01,160
being human remains or human or
anything like that.
260
00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:03,080
Now, I guess he could have been
OK.
261
00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:06,200
Let me just go to the next one
and then we can talk about it.
262
00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:08,960
Theory #3 foul play or an inside
job.
263
00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:12,320
Some speculate and altercation
happened and the bar covered it
264
00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:14,000
up.
But this would involve 1
265
00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:18,360
multiple employees, 20 witnesses
breaking silence for nearly 20
266
00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:23,000
years, three, no digital trail,
and four, no physical evidence.
267
00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:27,600
So it's possible, but improbable
#4 the construction area theory.
268
00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:32,200
This is the theory cops hate and
Reddit loves that Brian slipped
269
00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:35,000
out through the unfinished
construction area, somehow got
270
00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:37,480
past the fencing, and was
injured or killed in the
271
00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:39,960
process.
But police inspected the area
272
00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:41,800
thoroughly.
They found no evidence of a
273
00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:44,160
person dying, bleeding, or
becoming trapped.
274
00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:48,200
Here's #5 is the theory no one
wants to say out loud.
275
00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:51,800
Some believe Clint Bryant's
friend knows more than he said.
276
00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:55,040
Clint refused 2 polygraphs and
later obtained a lawyer.
277
00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:57,960
Friends described him as
evasive, even angry at the
278
00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:02,760
suggestion he cooperate more,
but there is no evidence linking
279
00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:05,880
him to anything.
This theory feels spicy but
280
00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:07,840
hollow.
Well, and also a lot of times
281
00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:12,000
people say you cannot judge
someone by how they respond to
282
00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:14,520
grief.
If he's in grief, which if it
283
00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:17,720
was his best friend or even a
close friend, then he may have
284
00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:21,080
just been in grief.
And also everybody says don't
285
00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:23,040
take a polygraph.
Well, I was.
286
00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:24,080
That's what I was just going to
say.
287
00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:27,160
I think I would refuse a
polygraph in any situation, even
288
00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:30,160
if I was completely innocent
because they can't be trusted.
289
00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:31,120
Right.
Yeah.
290
00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:33,960
And if the authorities are
insisting on a Poly polygraph
291
00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:36,040
polygraph, I'm going to get a
lawyer.
292
00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:40,240
I get it from that point of view
and actually just thinking about
293
00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:42,600
it, if people if friends were
then like, why would you just do
294
00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:44,040
the polygraph?
Why would you just do the
295
00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:45,520
polygraph?
I would probably eventually
296
00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:49,040
become evasive and even angry at
the suggestion, right?
297
00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:52,040
Like I'm not going to do a
polygraph unless it's for fun
298
00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:55,200
with no strings to or
ramifications, right?
299
00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:57,480
I might do it for fun.
Like let's see if you can catch
300
00:14:57,480 --> 00:14:58,960
me lying.
You know, when I'm doing lying
301
00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:03,280
intentionally to to play with a
polygraph, But that's like if
302
00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:05,600
and only if and probably never
going to happen.
303
00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:08,600
But yeah, I'm not doing a
polygraph if I'm being
304
00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:11,680
interviewed related to a
disappearance or a crime or a
305
00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:16,520
which I hopefully never will be.
But yeah, I get, I get that.
306
00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:19,400
But like, you know, like I said,
it's a spicy, it's a spicy
307
00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:22,440
theory.
Like it's the friend that's not
308
00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:25,800
really none of that's really
evidence of anything other than
309
00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:32,320
somebody who's educated in how
in police inter interrogation
310
00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:34,320
tactics.
The other thing is I know cops
311
00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:36,440
can lie.
Like I'm not going to commit a
312
00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:38,240
crime because that's not how I
roll.
313
00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:43,000
But if I ever found myself in an
interrogation, like I would
314
00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:46,200
definitely just be like lawyer,
you're not my buddy, you're not
315
00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:47,720
my pal.
You're no bye bye.
316
00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:51,640
Right.
And also there was no evidence
317
00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:53,280
showing that anything like that
happened.
318
00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:56,120
Exactly.
Brian's father, Randy, spent
319
00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:59,680
years searching for his son.
In 2008, he died unexpectedly
320
00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:02,120
when a tree branch fell on him
during storm cleanup.
321
00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:05,800
That's wild, right?
So now think about that.
322
00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:10,880
Brian's brother, in the course
of two years, lost his mother,
323
00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:15,880
his father, and his only sibling
literally orphaned in the space
324
00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:18,960
of two years.
So months later, after Randy
325
00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:22,920
died, someone posted a message
on Brian's missing persons web
326
00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:27,520
page saying Dad comma, I love
you Brian.
327
00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:32,440
IP tracing indicated the message
came from a computer in the
328
00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:35,520
Virgin Islands.
Was it real?
329
00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:38,360
Probably not.
Was it horrifying for the
330
00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:40,320
family?
Absolutely.
331
00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:44,680
I'm sure so whoever.
Looks.
332
00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:48,480
Like I'm thinking if someone
just put that randomly as
333
00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:52,640
opposed, they must have known
the scenario and how awful, how
334
00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:56,600
terrible to do to a family to to
give even a tiny bit of hope
335
00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:57,960
that maybe he's really out
there.
336
00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:02,320
Yeah, yeah, I agree.
People are terrible sometimes,
337
00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:03,600
man.
Sometimes.
338
00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:07,040
The Columbus, OH, Police
Department still lists Brian is
339
00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:09,440
missing.
He walked into a bar.
340
00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:13,000
He didn't walk out.
And today, the space between
341
00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:17,079
those two facts remains one of
the strangest voids in true
342
00:17:17,079 --> 00:17:19,760
crime history, as I guess you
could call it.
343
00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:20,720
I don't know what else to call
it.
344
00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:22,040
Disappearance history.
I don't know.
345
00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:26,960
Wow, yeah.
OK, if Brian's story is the man
346
00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:30,040
who vanished, Jonathan's is the
man who should still be alive.
347
00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:34,680
Jonathan Luna was a 38 year old
federal prosecutor in Baltimore.
348
00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:38,600
Smart, steady, married with two
sons, deeply respected by
349
00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:42,280
colleagues, he was handling a
major drug case involving heroin
350
00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:44,320
distribution and violent gang
activity.
351
00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:48,400
The case was messy, political
and high pressure.
352
00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:51,200
Once again, that becomes
important later.
353
00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:56,880
Jonathan was born in 1965 to
hard working parents, his father
354
00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:59,360
from the Philippines, his mother
from Liberia.
355
00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:02,960
Their home life was structured,
academic, disciplined and full
356
00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:06,000
of expectation.
He was bright early on top of
357
00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:09,080
his class, studious the air
quotes, good son.
358
00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:11,880
He wasn't flashy, but he was
determined.
359
00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:15,360
He earned his law degree from
UNC Chapel Hill, clerked for
360
00:18:15,360 --> 00:18:18,440
judges, then joined the DOJ as a
federal prosecutor.
361
00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:22,280
Jonathan married Angela, had two
boys, lived in a comfortable
362
00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:25,240
suburban home, and by all
accounts was a quiet man who
363
00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:30,360
kept his private life private.
But beneath the professionalism
364
00:18:30,360 --> 00:18:34,680
was a man stretched thin, long
hours, high state cases and
365
00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:37,680
stress he rarely shared.
He was also struggling.
366
00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:41,160
His career had been rocky, his
marriage reportedly was under
367
00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:44,560
strain, and he had recently been
reprimanded for misplaced
368
00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:49,040
documents.
So December 3rd, 2003, Jonathan
369
00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:53,840
left his office around 11:38 PM.
Like I said, he left behind his
370
00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:57,160
glasses, his cell phone, his EZ
Pass.
371
00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:00,000
And for those who don't know
what an EZ Pass is, that's a way
372
00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:03,040
to get through toll roads
without having to stop and pay
373
00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:05,440
cash.
It's something that a camera can
374
00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:10,240
scan and it knows to bill the
person who that EZ Pass belongs
375
00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:13,520
to.
And then, according to some for
376
00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:16,600
workers, he left behind
unfinished legal paperwork he
377
00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:18,680
desperately needed for the next
morning's hearing.
378
00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:22,400
Instead of driving home to his
family, he got into his Honda
379
00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:26,240
and began driving north.
What we know about the drive is
380
00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:27,920
from toll records and
surveillance.
381
00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:31,840
So again, he left at around
11:38 PM.
382
00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:36,680
At midnight, 12 AM, his car
passed the Fort McHenry tunnel.
383
00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:40,720
At 1:00 AM his debit card was
used at a rest stop in Delaware.
384
00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:44,280
The surveillance cameras show
him alone.
385
00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:47,560
He then drives across the
Maryland, Delaware, Pennsylvania
386
00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:51,840
borders in a looping nonsensical
pattern like someone lost or
387
00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:54,520
someone trying not to lead
anyone to a destination.
388
00:19:54,800 --> 00:20:00,040
At 5:30, AMA pair of workers at
a small rural Pennsylvania Creek
389
00:20:00,120 --> 00:20:04,320
found Lunas Honda sitting in the
shallow water idling it's engine
390
00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:06,880
running inside was Jonathan
Luna.
391
00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:13,800
He had 36 stab wounds.
A deep gash on his neck,
392
00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:19,440
defensive wounds, his own blood
saturating the interior of the
393
00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:22,760
car.
His wallet was on him, he had no
394
00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:27,960
cash, there was no weapon found,
and the car key was missing.
395
00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:31,280
So that leads me to believe it
was pushed to start since it was
396
00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:32,720
idling.
Right, so it.
397
00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:35,880
Just took away the key.
Yeah, or it could be on the
398
00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:37,720
phone.
I mean it could be, but it was
399
00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:39,680
that too long ago for a phone to
start it.
400
00:20:41,120 --> 00:20:45,160
I'm not sure when that started.
I mean our car 2. 1003 seems too
401
00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:47,080
long ago, yeah.
Yeah, it might do.
402
00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:51,280
Wow.
So here's what's really
403
00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:54,320
chilling.
There was very little blood
404
00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:57,600
outside the car.
So the interior of the car is
405
00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:02,080
saturated in blood.
The exterior or the surrounding
406
00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:05,600
area, very little blood.
So he was attacked inside the
407
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:09,240
vehicle while driving or
immediately after stopping, but
408
00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:11,360
the wounds were not deep enough
alone to kill him.
409
00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:14,880
He ultimately died.
Blood loss combined with
410
00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:18,480
drowning.
Now he drowned in the Creek
411
00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:22,120
where his car was, or if he
drowned in his own blood, but
412
00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:25,600
ultimately that was what he died
from was the blood loss combined
413
00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:28,680
combined with drowning.
At first, the FBI treated this
414
00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:32,520
as a homicide.
Then, against the objections of
415
00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:36,360
many FBI agents, it was
reclassified as a probable
416
00:21:36,360 --> 00:21:42,240
suicide.
That face is exactly how almost
417
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:44,320
anyone who has looked at the
evidence feels.
418
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:50,360
It does not sit well. 36 or 7
stab wounds and 36 suicides and
419
00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:53,800
defensive wounds.
Well, he was very poor at it,
420
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:56,760
that's for sure.
If it was suicide, but also
421
00:21:56,840 --> 00:21:59,160
really creative.
Right.
422
00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:00,840
So let's look through the
theories.
423
00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:03,000
Look through what?
Let's walk through the theories.
424
00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:06,880
First is, of course, suicide.
Federal prosecutors quietly
425
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:09,960
implied Jonathan staged his own
death to escape professional
426
00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:13,120
embarrassment.
But people don't stab themselves
427
00:22:13,120 --> 00:22:17,360
36 times.
There was no knife.
428
00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:20,520
He had defensive wounds.
He left his glasses.
429
00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:23,360
He left his phone.
He drove hundreds of miles in a
430
00:22:23,360 --> 00:22:26,360
confusing pattern.
Calling this suicide requires
431
00:22:26,360 --> 00:22:28,520
gymnastic level mental
flexibility.
432
00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:32,880
Yeah, and also for Heaven Said
it's 36 times.
433
00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:35,760
I don't think I could keep doing
it.
434
00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:39,520
I don't think anybody could keep
doing it unless maybe you took
435
00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:44,040
like a raging dose of crystal
meth, but there's no mention of
436
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:47,840
crystal meth in this case, so.
One would expect that he would
437
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:49,920
have.
It would have been checked.
438
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:54,720
Yeah, so theory 2, murder
related to the drug case.
439
00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:57,720
This is the most common theory.
Luna was involved in a case
440
00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:00,320
against the Woodlawn
organization, a heroin ring.
441
00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:03,480
Witnesses were testifying, deals
were being offered and tensions
442
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:05,840
were high.
Some believe he was lured into a
443
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,960
meeting, others believe he was
ambushed on the road.
444
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:13,160
The main issue with this theory
is no evidence ties gang members
445
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:14,920
to Pennsylvania where Luna was
found.
446
00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:19,240
Although that being said like
what a smart way to not make
447
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:21,920
people think it was you, right?
Do it somewhere where you don't
448
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:23,760
have ties.
Right.
449
00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:27,200
Right.
Like, you know, I, I wish I'd
450
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:30,760
thought of this before, before
when I was create, when I was
451
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:34,520
preparing for this, because I
would love to know what what
452
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,760
came of the prosecution against
the Woodlawn organization.
453
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:41,680
Like did anything change?
Were they where they offered
454
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:44,000
better plea deals or I I wonder
anyway, I.
455
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:45,120
Don't know.
I wouldn't think so.
456
00:23:45,120 --> 00:23:47,960
I mean because it's not like
someone else didn't pick up the
457
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:49,400
case.
Right, right.
458
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:51,160
Well, I don't.
Know they had somebody in there.
459
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:52,600
Bribable.
Yeah, they say.
460
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:55,840
Something more bribable, right?
Theory 3.
461
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:58,040
Internal corruption or career
trouble.
462
00:23:58,120 --> 00:24:00,880
Some speculated Luna was
involved in financial trouble.
463
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,160
A small amount of money had gone
missing from his office evidence
464
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:06,920
room earlier that year, though
it was never proven he was
465
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:08,920
responsible.
Could he have been meeting
466
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:10,600
someone to resolve a secret
problem?
467
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:15,920
Possibly, but it doesn't explain
the physical violence theory #4
468
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:19,640
coercion by someone he knew.
Some investigators believe Luna
469
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:22,800
may have been forced to drive,
perhaps by someone in the car or
470
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:24,520
picked someone up during the
trip.
471
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,920
But toll cameras do not show a
second person unless that person
472
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:31,280
crouched or hid.
Because they would probably know
473
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:34,920
that toll, that tolls have
cameras and breast stops have
474
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:38,080
cameras, right?
It you know, you can certainly
475
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:41,640
Crouch, put your seat down
whatever, lay the seat back or
476
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,760
to hide so.
But to remember all that every
477
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:47,440
single time, because some of
these cameras will sneak up.
478
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:50,480
And if a person isn't terribly
familiar, like I drive some of
479
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,720
these areas all the time and
there's the toll cameras.
480
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:55,520
And I'm like, Oh yeah, there's
another toll camera, but I
481
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:56,840
wouldn't have thought of it in
advance.
482
00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:00,800
Yeah, unless you cased it maybe,
right.
483
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:02,800
So you marked every toll camera,
I don't know.
484
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:06,160
So there's the wrong time, wrong
place theory that he was
485
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:09,120
randomly targeted, but the odds
of a random killer intercepting
486
00:25:09,120 --> 00:25:13,080
a federal federal prosecutor
who's on a late night Interstate
487
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:17,800
weird loop, delude loop defy
reason, right?
488
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:21,120
The the odds are slim.
The number six is the one theory
489
00:25:21,120 --> 00:25:25,040
investigators whisper about,
that Jonathan Luna was meeting
490
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:28,160
someone voluntarily, someone he
didn't want traced, and
491
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:29,800
something went catastrophically
wrong.
492
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:34,080
But again, the wounds, the
missing knife, the odd route,
493
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:38,240
the shallow Creek, it all feels
staged and sloppy at the same
494
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:40,040
time.
Nothing fits neatly.
495
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:45,240
So the strangest details are
that Jonathan's EZ pass was left
496
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:48,280
behind instead of using it.
Someone paid cash at each toll.
497
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:51,560
Was that Jonathan intentionally
avoiding a trace or someone else
498
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:53,440
who didn't know he had a pass?
Well, he didn't even have it
499
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,840
with him, so, you know, it.
Was it someone else who I mean,
500
00:25:56,840 --> 00:26:00,320
I guess OK, you don't actually
have to have your EZ pass on you
501
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,440
because it will scan your your
license plate if you haven't
502
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,680
registered.
But yeah, so missing knife.
503
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,280
I'm sorry.
I was going to say, and they
504
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:11,320
knew he paid cash because it was
on the cameras.
505
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:16,920
Yeah, Yep, exactly.
So despite a 100 mile crime
506
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:19,480
scene search, the murder weapon
has never been recovered.
507
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:23,520
The car's position, it was
angled gently into the Creek as
508
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:25,520
if driven deliberately, not
crashed.
509
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:29,560
So it was like somebody had
driven just down into the Creek,
510
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:33,000
all careful like.
Of course, the defensive wounds
511
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,680
suggest he fought someone and
they eliminate suicide.
512
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:41,920
I mean to any logical mind, I
mean, I guess I'm doing hand
513
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:46,000
motions, listers I could get, I
guess you could do defensive
514
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:49,640
wounds on yourself, but they.
'D still be angled.
515
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:51,360
Wrong.
Yeah, you're right.
516
00:26:51,360 --> 00:26:53,560
They'd still be angled wrong.
Yeah, it's weird.
517
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:56,120
Despite all this, the FBI has
remained firm.
518
00:26:56,120 --> 00:26:58,920
Probable suicide.
This is the most contested
519
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:02,640
conclusion in the entire case,
meaning that people think all of
520
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:04,880
those other theories are more
likely than suicide.
521
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:08,440
Yeah, I agree.
So Brian Schaefer walked into a
522
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:10,880
bar and vanished.
Jonathan Luna drove into the
523
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:13,520
night and never made it home.
One case looks like a
524
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:15,480
disappearance that shouldn't be
possible.
525
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:17,880
The other looks like a murder
that shouldn't be labeled
526
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:19,040
suicide.
Both.
527
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:22,240
Men left.
Well, it makes me wonder why
528
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:25,840
they're leaning so hard on the
suicide thing, which makes no
529
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,360
sense.
Like you saying, it makes me
530
00:27:28,360 --> 00:27:33,040
wonder if there was some other
secondary gain potential of
531
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:36,160
people saying yes to this.
Or maybe, like we said, someone
532
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,320
in their pocket going, yeah,
well, let me get a suicide
533
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:43,040
because that'll take it off the
table for any other cases or
534
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:44,680
crimes that might be hanging
around.
535
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:46,680
Well, that makes it so it's not
a cold case, right?
536
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,960
Nobody has nobody's allowed to
investigate it.
537
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:52,200
The web sluice can investigate
it.
538
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:55,720
Armchair detectives, right?
But the FBI agents have to move
539
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:57,720
on.
And there's the, you know, they,
540
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:01,640
they, they can't use FBI time to
investigate it because it's not
541
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:02,880
a crime.
It's just a suicide.
542
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:06,560
That's fishy, right?
And we know there's corruption
543
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:11,200
in government agencies and what,
you know, I know, I know.
544
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:15,800
And a lot, a lot more shady shit
goes on than we like to think
545
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:16,880
about.
So who knows?
546
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:18,760
That's for sure, that's for
sure.
547
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:22,880
You know, I was looking at his
stats and he was born 3 days
548
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:25,600
before I was.
Oh my goodness, that means he
549
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:28,760
was born on October 21st.
Yes ma'am, it does.
550
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:31,440
Boom.
He would have been 60 this year
551
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:34,200
as well.
Not lucky him, I guess.
552
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:35,240
Not lucky him, because he's
dead.
553
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:37,360
Not as lucky I I'm.
Preferring to.
554
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:40,000
Be alive.
I'm preferring to be alive, but
555
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:43,520
it's just wild that some of
these theories can happen and
556
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:46,520
and that there's no, there was
no evidence that could connect
557
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:51,760
it to anyone, right?
I saw in the, in the research
558
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:53,600
here, I was just looking at it
while you were talking.
559
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,920
It says that there was a second
set of fingerprints at the
560
00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:01,600
driver's door, but it was never
never found to connect to
561
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:03,440
anyone.
But also, it could have been
562
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:06,600
somebody else that have been in
the car and maybe the
563
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:09,560
fingerprints had been just
attached to the blood or the
564
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:11,840
blood was over them, or I don't
know how fingerprints work
565
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:16,160
exactly.
There was no actual pattern you
566
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:17,880
could get from them or
something.
567
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,320
I don't know.
It's this is the one that a long
568
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:23,480
time ago I was like, there's
this thorough employee and he
569
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:25,680
drives really far away and it's
really weird.
570
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:27,040
This is the one I was telling
you about.
571
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:30,000
So I was, I was happy when I
finally remembered his name.
572
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:33,600
So.
Both men left behind.
573
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:38,360
Devastated families, haunting
evidence and case files that, at
574
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:40,520
least to the public, remain open
puzzles.
575
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:45,400
And in both cases, the single
truth that investigators agree
576
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:47,080
on is the same.
Nothing about these
577
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:49,480
disappearances makes sense.
Now I want to talk about some
578
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:51,880
other mysterious disappoint
disappointments.
579
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,040
I'm seriously.
Mysteriously disappointed.
580
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,320
I love that.
Now I'm going to.
581
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:03,120
OK, now I'm going to talk.
About some other mysterious
582
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:06,440
disappearances, I'm not going to
go into as much detail.
583
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:09,720
And a lot of these are really
well known and some of them
584
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:13,520
maybe not so much.
I my first, my first next case
585
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:17,720
is one that a lot of people
consider there is rent free in
586
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:19,040
their head.
They're top rent free
587
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:21,360
disappearance and that is Mara
Murray.
588
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:23,800
Are you familiar with Mara
Murray's disappearance?
589
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:24,880
No.
OK.
590
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:27,440
So, Mara.
Was born in Massachusetts, the
591
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:30,400
younger, youngest daughter in a
large Irish Catholic family.
592
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:33,400
She was athletic, disciplined,
competitive, a track star, a
593
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:35,640
West Point cadet, and a nursing
student.
594
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:39,280
Mara had ambition in her bones.
She wanted a future full of
595
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:41,160
purpose.
But she also carried pressures,
596
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:43,880
relationship complications, and
what friends described as quiet
597
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:45,640
struggles she didn't always talk
about.
598
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:51,120
On February 9th, 2004, Mara
drove into rural New Hampshire.
599
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:55,880
We still don't know why.
At 7:27 PM, she crashed her car
600
00:30:55,880 --> 00:31:01,040
on a sharp curb near Woodsville.
A school bus driver stopped to
601
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:03,680
check on her.
She seemed shaken, but not
602
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:06,760
injured.
She said she'd already called
603
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:08,640
AAA.
She hadn't.
604
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:10,760
Wow.
Yeah.
605
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:16,520
OK. 7:30 PM.
Three minutes later, 3 minutes
606
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:20,640
later, police arrived.
Mara was gone.
607
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:23,560
No footprints in the snow?
Gone.
608
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:26,720
No footprints in the snow.
No dogs picking up a trail.
609
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:31,840
No evidence of a second car Just
gone, Searchers.
610
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:34,440
Came in three.
Minutes. 3 minutes.
611
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:36,840
The show the snow shows no
tracks.
612
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:39,720
Like I said, cadaver dogs,
search dogs, bloodhounds,
613
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:42,480
nothing.
If Mara left that scene, she
614
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:45,360
didn't do it on foot.
And yet she left.
615
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:48,520
Wow.
OK, like.
616
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:52,320
There are theories that maybe
she fell off a Cliff.
617
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,720
I just don't know why Dogs.
Yeah, exactly.
618
00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:59,040
I just don't know why dogs
wouldn't pick up on that and why
619
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:02,080
they're.
I don't know that it was snowing
620
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:06,400
at the time.
It's it's wild that she lied
621
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:10,000
about calling AAA.
Well, it makes me wonder if
622
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,760
there was someone.
In the car with her or someone
623
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:14,920
hiding under a blanket or
something with a, you know, a
624
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:17,480
gun or a knife or to make her
say that.
625
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:20,560
But even still, if that were the
case and she disappeared, that
626
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,400
means they would have
disappeared, which means unless
627
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:25,240
the car was still there.
Right.
628
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:28,800
And unless they both.
Somehow levitated over the
629
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:33,720
ground, I mean.
I guess what could have happened
630
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:39,520
is some car pulled right up next
to her car and they she
631
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:42,440
transferred into that car from
her car.
632
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:44,040
Or they pulled.
Her.
633
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:45,560
Yeah.
I mean, I don't know.
634
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:47,840
Another thing I don't know.
And again, I didn't like, I said
635
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:49,400
that because I'm doing several
more of these.
636
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:51,840
I didn't go into as much
detailed research as I did on
637
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:55,960
the Jonathan and Brian.
But I wonder if when the bus
638
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:58,880
driver checked on her, if she
was still sitting in her car or
639
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:01,840
if she was standing outside of
her car.
640
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:06,480
It's it's wild.
I, I just OK, so that's Laura
641
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:08,200
Marie.
Just one one thing I wanted to
642
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:09,720
say.
So far in the three people that
643
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:13,520
you've talked about, they've all
had some underlying concerns
644
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:17,920
that they had some stress, big
stressors that they hadn't said
645
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:21,400
anything about that maybe didn't
didn't match their forward
646
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:24,360
facing personalities or or
presentations.
647
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:27,200
Interesting.
The next one is Lars.
648
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:32,560
Mckenk Lars was born in Berlin,
loved soccer, worked steady jobs
649
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:34,200
and had an easygoing
personality.
650
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:37,720
Friends described him as gentle,
goofy and dependable.
651
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:41,120
Nothing in his early life
suggests paranoia, instability
652
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:44,480
or danger.
In 2014, while on vacation in
653
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:48,760
Bulgaria, Lars got into a minor
fight with some soccer fans and
654
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:52,360
suffered A ruptured eardrum.
His doctor told him he couldn't
655
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:55,480
fly until it healed.
That's when everything went
656
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:57,520
wrong.
Bars became paranoid.
657
00:33:57,520 --> 00:33:59,160
He believed someone was
following him.
658
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:03,040
He switched hotels to avoid men.
Air quotes he said, were after
659
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:04,040
him.
He checked.
660
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:07,000
Excuse me?
He texted his mother cryptic
661
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:08,480
messages.
I don't feel safe.
662
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:11,360
Tell me what to do.
At the airport, he was recorded
663
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:14,880
pacing, anxious, hiding in a
corner, then suddenly sprinting
664
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,719
out of the terminal, abandoning
his luggage, running across
665
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:19,880
parking lots and into a dense
field.
666
00:34:20,199 --> 00:34:24,920
He was never seen again.
A healthy.
667
00:34:25,639 --> 00:34:29,440
Yeah, a healthy athletic man
runs into a field beside a busy
668
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:33,080
airport in broad daylight and
vanishes so completely that
669
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:36,960
thermal imaging drones, dogs and
police with helicopters could
670
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:41,040
not find a single trace of him.
It's not just that he ran.
671
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:43,480
It's that he never reappeared.
What?
672
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:47,239
I mean, I'm not laughing at his
disappearance, but it's like,
673
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:49,120
what?
It's exactly what you said what
674
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:51,199
that is, so I don't.
Think.
675
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:55,760
I don't think a ruptured eardrum
would cause paranoia.
676
00:34:56,679 --> 00:34:59,640
Yeah, but if the.
Ruptured eardrum was a diagnosis
677
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:02,120
that also missed a head injury
maybe?
678
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:06,000
What year was this 2000?
14 See, they should have checked
679
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,320
for.
I would think in the 80s maybe
680
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:10,360
they wouldn't check for head
injury because if you've got a
681
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:12,880
ruptured eardrum, like I said,
that could be enough to get a
682
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:14,920
head injury.
But I can't believe that they
683
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:17,640
wouldn't have tested or checked
for it or documented it or
684
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:19,280
something because that could do
it.
685
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:22,080
But that's weird.
It is weird.
686
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:25,320
And I wonder what his mother
responded to him when he
687
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:29,000
responded back to his.
I can't imagine getting texts
688
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,520
like that my kids that would no
way scare the.
689
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:37,160
Hell out of me and so did it say
what she said or did?
690
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:39,840
No, that's weird.
Yeah.
691
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:43,240
And every one of these is just
like, I wonder about the drug
692
00:35:43,240 --> 00:35:46,880
situation potential, you know,
is there some some sort of drug
693
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,680
that he could have been taken
that made him go a little wacky?
694
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:52,120
But it doesn't say anything
about that.
695
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:53,840
It doesn't say it's a history of
drug use.
696
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:55,400
It doesn't say anything like
that.
697
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:58,320
And then I think of things like,
well, maybe in the fight they
698
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:00,600
roofied him or something, but
that should show up when you
699
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:02,120
went to the doctor.
It's not like the fight
700
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:03,520
happened.
And then immediately all the
701
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:06,080
went on, right?
Yeah, well.
702
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:11,560
And he was prescribed cefrazole,
an antibiotic, and maybe he had
703
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:14,360
an allergic reaction to that.
I know that a lot of people
704
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:17,880
theorize that he had a closed
head injury that was missed on
705
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:19,920
examination.
I don't know.
706
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:22,240
I'm one of those people.
Apparently, yeah.
707
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:25,440
Yeah, I don't know.
Where how he got the injury
708
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:28,880
again, I didn't research this is
thoroughly as I did the first
709
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:31,840
two.
Yeah, so just went berserk and
710
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:35,320
ran out of an airport into a
field and never came back out.
711
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:39,840
So I recently heard a whole
episode on this one, but I don't
712
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:41,840
necessarily remember all of the
details.
713
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:46,240
So this is Sneha and Philip.
Snehal was born in India, raised
714
00:36:46,240 --> 00:36:48,800
in upstate New York, and grew up
excelling in school.
715
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:52,040
She was artistic, free spirited,
academically gifted, and
716
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:53,720
eventually attended medical
school.
717
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:56,320
Snehal was the kind of person
who could walk into any room and
718
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:59,320
make it brighter, but she also
struggled with career pressure,
719
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:02,200
relationship complications, in
the weight of trying to live up
720
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:06,440
to family expectations.
On September 10th, 2001.
721
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:11,760
Done.
Done Sneha Sneha went shopping
722
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:14,200
in lower Manhattan.
Security footage shows her
723
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:15,960
buying lingerie and household
items.
724
00:37:16,240 --> 00:37:18,160
She was last seen around 7:00
PM.
725
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:21,880
Then nothing.
Her apartment was untouched, her
726
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:24,760
phone uncalled, her credit
card's unused.
727
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:30,880
No one saw her leave or return
the next morning. 9/11 Happened
728
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:32,720
2.
Planes hit the Twin Towers.
729
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:35,600
Her apartment was blocks from
the towers.
730
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:39,000
Many believe she ran toward the
disaster to help because she was
731
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:42,160
a doctor.
Despite exhaustive
732
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:44,800
investigation, there is no
evidence of her inside the
733
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:47,520
towers.
No hospital logs, no survivor
734
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:52,000
accounts, no remains, no
belonging, no belongings ever
735
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:54,040
recovered.
She lived in one of the most
736
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:57,280
densely populated areas of the
planet and vanished during one
737
00:37:57,280 --> 00:37:59,840
of the most photographed events
in human history.
738
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:05,160
I I know from listening to that
podcast episode from whoever.
739
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:09,720
I can't remember which podcast
it was, but probably small town.
740
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:14,040
Well no small town murder
wouldn't do lower Manhattan so
741
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:17,640
I'm not sure.
But I know that she she was
742
00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:21,600
unhappy in her marriage.
There are theories that she had
743
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:26,160
started dating a woman.
She was unreliable as a doctor
744
00:38:26,240 --> 00:38:29,680
often and people didn't like
working with her.
745
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:32,840
So.
And then the last thing I
746
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:38,320
remember is that for a very long
time she was not listed on the
747
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:41,400
memorial.
And then recently she got listed
748
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:43,520
on the memorial.
That's basically what I know
749
00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:44,880
about her.
They.
750
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:47,280
Couldn't rule out the fact that
she could have been there.
751
00:38:47,720 --> 00:38:50,120
Yeah, exactly.
There were so many people that
752
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:50,640
just.
Never.
753
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:52,960
They found nothing from them,
right?
754
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:56,720
Yeah, exactly.
This is another one that is
755
00:38:56,720 --> 00:38:59,600
pretty famous and you may have
heard of this one.
756
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:01,960
You may have not.
This is Brandon Swanson.
757
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:06,320
Brandon was born in Minnesota,
loved farming, loved cars, and
758
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:08,400
loved learning.
He wasn't a troublemaker, he
759
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:10,720
wasn't impulsive, he wasn't
reckless.
760
00:39:10,720 --> 00:39:13,960
He was simply a normal 19 year
old with college dreams and a
761
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:17,360
tight knit family.
In the early hours of May 14th,
762
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:21,920
2008, Brandon accidentally drove
into a ditch while heading home.
763
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:24,800
He called his parents,
embarrassed but calm.
764
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:27,920
They stayed on the phone while
he walked toward what he
765
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:30,080
believed were the lights of a
nearby town.
766
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:33,560
I do remember this I hate.
This sorry I'm I'm getting.
767
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:37,040
All emotional.
For 47 minutes he talked to his
768
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:39,200
dad.
Calm, rational, describing
769
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:42,360
landmarks.
Then he suddenly said oh shit
770
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:45,480
and the line went silent and he
was never found.
771
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:50,040
The area that he was.
In was flat farmland.
772
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:53,720
There were no cliffs, no
predators, no bodies of water
773
00:39:53,720 --> 00:39:57,360
deep enough to hide a person.
Hundreds of volunteers scoured
774
00:39:57,360 --> 00:39:59,200
the area.
Dogs tracked his scent to a
775
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:01,040
fence line.
And then it stopped cold.
776
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:04,040
It's as if the earth opened up
and took him.
777
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:08,520
You're not on the.
Phone.
778
00:40:08,720 --> 00:40:10,200
I know.
I cannot imagine.
779
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:17,160
Being on the phone with my kid
who's trekking to get help and
780
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:20,240
they say a shit environment,
yeah.
781
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:22,600
And for?
Them to say oh shit and the line
782
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:24,680
goes silent and then never see
them again.
783
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:27,760
Like what could it have meant?
Yeah.
784
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:30,280
What could it have meant?
No.
785
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:32,760
Oh my.
Gosh.
786
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:36,160
We have two more.
The next one I have is this
787
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:38,400
one's another head scratcher.
I mean, I know all of these are
788
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:40,680
obviously head scratches, but
this one is just.
789
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:43,680
This one is Zeb Quinn.
Have you ever heard of this one?
790
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:47,520
Zeb grew up in Asheville.
North Carolina.
791
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:49,480
He was shy, polite, hard
working.
792
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:52,960
He was close, close with his
mother, had no enemies, and had
793
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:55,840
recently started earning money
at Walmart while saving for a
794
00:40:55,840 --> 00:41:00,400
new car.
On January 2nd, 2000, Zeb left
795
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:02,240
work to look at a car listed for
sale.
796
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:05,040
He drove with Co worker Jason
Owens.
797
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:09,560
Owens later claimed Zeb got a
page, panicked and speed off.
798
00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:13,640
No one saw Zeb again.
Two days later, Owens was
799
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:16,080
treated for broken ribs, which
he claimed came from a
800
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:21,240
mysterious car accident.
Nobody reported and then Zeb's
801
00:41:21,240 --> 00:41:23,920
car surfaced.
The seats were adjusted wrong.
802
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:29,440
The headlights were on.
A live puppy was left inside.
803
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:33,800
Lipstick messages were drawn on
the back window and it looked
804
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:37,360
like a ransom note drawn by
someone who had never seen.
805
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:39,440
Sorry.
The lipstick messages looked
806
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:41,960
like a ransom note drawn by
someone who had never seen a
807
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:44,080
ransom note.
What is that?
808
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:48,160
Was it just a lame?
Ransom note or what?
809
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:50,600
Yeah, let me look up.
What it said 'cause I don't
810
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:52,800
remember.
And that seems like a weird
811
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:55,880
thing, right?
Because it seems like if.
812
00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:59,160
They were writing a ransom note
in Oh, it was just lips.
813
00:41:59,160 --> 00:41:59,880
It was.
Just lips.
814
00:41:59,880 --> 00:42:01,520
That's right.
It was just.
815
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:05,840
It was lips drawn on the back
window with lipstick.
816
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:07,520
What?
That's weird too.
817
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:10,840
Yeah, it's the weirdest.
Well, could it have been
818
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:11,440
related?
I.
819
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:14,280
Wonder if they found, I wonder
if they found the car and they
820
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:16,800
just did weird stuff, but maybe
not related.
821
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:18,720
I don't know.
I don't know there.
822
00:42:18,720 --> 00:42:21,320
Are theories that it was
intentionally staged to confuse
823
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:24,160
investigators.
There are theories, of course,
824
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:28,280
that Jason Owens had taken the
car and brought it back.
825
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:31,120
There's a theory that there's a
love triangle.
826
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:35,720
And yeah, I just barely learned
about this one a few months ago.
827
00:42:35,720 --> 00:42:40,760
Also so well, I'm looking.
Online as you're talking, I
828
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:45,560
looked it up, it says 17 years
later on July 10th of 2017,
829
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:49,440
Owens was indicted for the first
degree murder of Quinn and then
830
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:52,400
he pled guilty to the lesser
charge of accessory after the
831
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:55,440
fact to 1st degree murder.
He claimed that his uncle had
832
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:58,680
been hired to murder Quinn by
the boyfriend of a woman who
833
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:01,720
Quinn had been romantically
interested in and that he helped
834
00:43:01,720 --> 00:43:04,280
her uncle.
His uncle covered the murder up
835
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:09,520
and it says that the uncle died
in 2017 and there's not been an
836
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:11,400
arrest for the alleged
instigator.
837
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:14,880
Owen's conviction legally
establishes that Quinn was
838
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:17,080
murdered despite the absence of
his body.
839
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:19,960
So that was when was this
written?
840
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:24,920
It was I'm I'm trying to look
for the the source.
841
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:27,760
But these?
Must be legal facts because they
842
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:30,520
couldn't say that they were
convicted and all of that.
843
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:32,320
Huh?
That's so.
844
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:36,960
Well, 17 years later, they
convicted him of this, but they
845
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:40,800
convicted him of.
Accessory after the fact and so.
846
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:44,760
He said his uncle did.
It so then what's the what's the
847
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:48,960
lipstick in the puppy what's the
puppy Yeah puppy is very.
848
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:53,840
Puppy in this car.
And the car, the car showed back
849
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:56,320
up two weeks later.
So it wasn't even like Zeb
850
00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:58,720
disappeared and then the next
day his car showed up.
851
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:01,360
It was 2 weeks later.
It's that is weird.
852
00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:04,880
I wonder if Owen Owen's.
Stole.
853
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:07,240
A car and maybe.
That he put the puppy in it and
854
00:44:07,240 --> 00:44:09,920
all that stuff to just set them
off track.
855
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:12,040
I mean, it did for 17 years,
apparently.
856
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:13,680
Yeah.
Well, yeah.
857
00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:14,920
I don't know.
I don't know.
858
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:18,160
That's wild.
Yeah, it is very wild.
859
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:21,320
Anyway, I just was.
Reading that on here and that's
860
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:22,680
crazy.
No worries at all.
861
00:44:22,720 --> 00:44:27,600
The last.
File I have is Phoenix Colden.
862
00:44:27,720 --> 00:44:30,680
Phoenix was raised in a deeply
religious home in Saint Louis.
863
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:34,160
She was homeschooled, brilliant,
athletic, A gifted fencer, a
864
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:36,840
musician, someone who shined in
everything she tried.
865
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:39,320
Her parents were strict,
structured, and protective.
866
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:43,840
Phoenix learned to excel and to
hide parts of her life she
867
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:47,480
feared they wouldn't approve of.
On December 18th, 2011, Phoenix
868
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:51,760
walked out of the front door,
got into her 1998 Chevy Blazer,
869
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:54,080
and drove away.
No fight, no stress, nothing
870
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:57,280
unusual.
At 3:00 PM, her car was found 25
871
00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:01,800
minutes away, still running,
door open with her purse, shoes
872
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:04,040
and ID inside, keys in the
ignition.
873
00:45:04,720 --> 00:45:09,200
No foul play, no footprints, no
signs of a struggle, no
874
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:10,960
sightings.
She evaporated.
875
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:13,520
It turned out that Phoenix had a
second life.
876
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:16,160
A secret boyfriend, secret
e-mail accounts, a secret
877
00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:19,760
outside identity she kept under
layers of privacy, and yet
878
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:22,400
nothing in that double life
explained why she would vanish
879
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:25,520
from a running car without
taking anything with her.
880
00:45:25,720 --> 00:45:30,320
So it's like, oh, OK, so she has
a secret life, a secret second
881
00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:31,880
life.
Case solved.
882
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:35,200
But then it's like, Nope, But
she didn't show up in that life.
883
00:45:35,240 --> 00:45:37,200
Either she didn't show up in
that life either.
884
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:39,160
Exactly.
Well, I just again keep.
885
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:42,240
Really thinking about the fact
that every one of these people
886
00:45:42,240 --> 00:45:47,480
were super high achievers and it
sounded like all of them had
887
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:51,360
some underlying situation or
something they were worried
888
00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:55,480
about coming to light because
maybe that that performance that
889
00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:58,840
they've been making, it was so
strong that they had to do
890
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:00,480
something else.
Obviously the murders are a
891
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:02,880
little bit different, but I just
wow.
892
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:05,400
It just makes me wonder.
And also I think about the
893
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:09,440
pressure that people feel to
look a certain way when that
894
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:11,600
they can't maintain it.
That's wild.
895
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:12,680
Absolutely.
Wild.
896
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:14,040
That's terrible.
So hard on the.
897
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:17,600
Families, yeah, for sure these.
Aren't just disappearances.
898
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:21,160
These are anomalies.
Each one violates something we
899
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:23,600
normally trust.
Cameras catch people entering
900
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:25,720
and exiting.
Footsteps leave prints in the
901
00:46:25,720 --> 00:46:27,760
snow.
Cars don't stage themselves.
902
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:30,480
People don't vanish mid
sentence.
903
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:33,160
Towns don't swallow people
whole.
904
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:36,280
Time doesn't pause for one woman
in Manhattan while the biggest
905
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:38,120
disaster in modern history
unfolds.
906
00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:40,840
And yet each of these stories
ends the same way.
907
00:46:41,240 --> 00:46:44,440
A living, breathing, dreaming
human being there one moment,
908
00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:47,320
gone the next, and the world
offers no explanation.
909
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:50,400
In the realm of true crime,
we're used to mysteries.
910
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:54,640
But these aren't mysteries.
These are fractures, places
911
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:57,360
where reality bent, cracked, and
then snap shut.
912
00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:01,040
And the people who fell through,
we still have no idea where they
913
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:03,720
went.
Wow.
914
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:08,000
You know, and even in the most
innocent case scenario with some
915
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:10,520
of these people that, you know,
they were never found dead, like
916
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:15,400
the Zeb, they assumed he was
dead since somebody said, yes, I
917
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:17,640
killed him.
So there was that, but they
918
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:20,280
never found a body.
Well, nobody said yes, I killed
919
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:23,400
him.
The uncle, the Owens said my
920
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:25,160
uncle killed him.
The uncle never confessed.
921
00:47:25,160 --> 00:47:27,920
The uncle died of a heart
attack, investigators said.
922
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:30,560
We determined through our
investigation that yes, the
923
00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:34,320
uncle killed him, but there was
like no trial, no charges, no
924
00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:36,960
confession.
So to the uncle, but.
925
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:40,560
But then Owens went to prison.
Yeah, but he went to prison for.
926
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:43,880
Accessory after the fact.
So, right, so there's something.
927
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:46,120
He did whatever that well, Yeah,
that.
928
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:48,560
They're saying the uncle did it.
I'm not saying I'm not saying he
929
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:50,440
didn't.
I'm just saying like we it's
930
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:54,480
still it's still an open book
because we didn't get nobody
931
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:58,200
explained the puppy or the
lipstick or all the parts that
932
00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:00,360
don't make.
The sense.
933
00:48:01,240 --> 00:48:03,400
But the.
Ones who disappeared.
934
00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:10,200
It just makes me wonder if they
were so desperate to just go and
935
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:13,200
the the people who could have
done that, I'm not saying they
936
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:15,920
did necessarily, but they could
have done it, were high
937
00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:18,720
achievers to the point that they
probably create a whole new
938
00:48:18,720 --> 00:48:20,320
life.
And there are places I
939
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:23,320
understand that can be done.
It's harder and harder in this
940
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:26,760
day and age, as it were.
I was in this day and age
941
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:30,960
because there are cameras
everywhere, there are resources
942
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:33,600
there, jobs like the doctor
person.
943
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:36,120
She probably didn't keep working
as a doctor, if that, if she
944
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:39,000
really did disappear because she
apparently wasn't that great
945
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:40,240
anyway and she would have known
that.
946
00:48:40,240 --> 00:48:42,080
Well, she didn't like it either,
so.
947
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:44,160
She didn't want to be a doctor,
right?
948
00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:47,000
And any but.
Anything that is medical or
949
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:49,600
teaching or many, many careers
have to have life.
950
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:54,880
I mean, excuse me, fingerprints
on record because they can see
951
00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:58,040
if they've done anything wrong
before when they're dealing with
952
00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:01,920
the public like that.
And maybe a barista forever is,
953
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:03,920
and there's nothing wrong with
being a barista, but it's
954
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:05,960
somebody that maybe isn't being
fingerprinted.
955
00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:08,960
Jobs that don't get
fingerprints, a person could
956
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:12,120
recreate their lives.
But still, I don't think it's
957
00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:13,840
that easy.
I don't either.
958
00:49:14,080 --> 00:49:16,200
I mean.
I don't ever think about it
959
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:18,160
because I don't.
I like my life and I don't want
960
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:19,920
to leave it.
But I'll go try.
961
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:21,360
I'll see what?
Happens.
962
00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:22,200
OK.
Thank you.
963
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:24,400
I appreciate it.
I'll tell you where I'm going.
964
00:49:24,760 --> 00:49:29,560
In Mexico, but I'll try.
But Holly and I talked about
965
00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:32,600
how, for example, it's not
illegal to fake your own death.
966
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:35,400
It's illegal to commit an
insurance fraud.
967
00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:37,560
So it's illegal to fake your own
death and then collect your
968
00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:39,720
insurance.
You don't have your spouse or
969
00:49:39,720 --> 00:49:41,240
whatever collect the life
insurance.
970
00:49:41,240 --> 00:49:44,240
But if you just fake your own
death and disappear, totally
971
00:49:44,240 --> 00:49:45,160
legal.
What?
972
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:47,800
Yeah, I guess I've never thought
of.
973
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:51,080
Faking my own death and why
would I probably read a book
974
00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:53,840
that's the only.
Reason it came up I mean to
975
00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:56,320
fake.
I could see doing it if a person
976
00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:59,640
was in a witness protection
program or something, but I'm
977
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:01,560
not sure why I asked the person
would fake their death.
978
00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:04,520
I I didn't read the book, so I.
Don't know but whoever wrote
979
00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:07,360
this book, they faked their own
death and then they explained
980
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:10,640
how they went about it and but
there was some guy that was out.
981
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:12,760
Kayaking and disappeared.
I remember that.
982
00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:15,600
And he faked his own death.
I mean, he faked his death.
983
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:18,800
He's flipped over or something.
And but he did knocked out.
984
00:50:19,120 --> 00:50:21,400
But he got big trouble.
Yeah, he did have his.
985
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:23,480
Wife collect life insurance.
Yeah, exactly.
986
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:24,520
That was a.
Different thing.
987
00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:26,080
He's the one that lived next
door to her.
988
00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:28,360
And then would sneak out when
visitors came and all of that.
989
00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:32,080
Yeah.
Which is pretty wild.
990
00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:35,000
I mean, like, gosh, you.
It's another one of those things
991
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:38,960
where people work so hard to
create this new reality that it
992
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:41,960
seems like it's a lot worse than
more work than what they were
993
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:45,160
trying to avoid in the 1st
place, and I can't remember why.
994
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:47,440
He did it except.
For I I know they were in
995
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:51,120
financial stress, but again, it
seems like he worked so hard to
996
00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:54,240
get out of that financial stress
by doing something way more
997
00:50:54,240 --> 00:50:56,640
stressful, right?
No kidding.
998
00:50:56,840 --> 00:50:58,800
Especially when you can file
bankruptcy if you're in that
999
00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:00,840
much stress, Yeah, or whatever
or.
1000
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:04,600
Just, I don't know.
But wow, these mysterious
1001
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:06,920
disappearances, though, I've
heard a few of them in different
1002
00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:10,000
podcasts and that kind of thing,
and it just, I don't know, I
1003
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:12,240
want to say it's creepy.
I don't know if that's the right
1004
00:51:12,240 --> 00:51:14,760
word, but it's unsettling.
Haunting.
1005
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:18,080
Yeah, that would be a good.
Word, knowing that these things
1006
00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:24,280
have happened and there's no
explanation, and I mean, not
1007
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:28,320
that I think this would happen
to me because why, but it still
1008
00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:30,680
can happen.
Stranger things have happened.
1009
00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:33,120
Definitely true.
I mean, these happened.
1010
00:51:33,160 --> 00:51:36,960
Right.
Like there may be some plausible
1011
00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:39,480
theories, but we still don't
know what happened.
1012
00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:42,720
You know, in the end, with all
of these cases, we still don't
1013
00:51:42,720 --> 00:51:47,360
know what happened.
And I mean, if I were to, I
1014
00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:50,960
mean, I don't even have a theory
for Mara Murray other than the
1015
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:54,240
one I guess I just said maybe
some car pulled up next to her
1016
00:51:54,240 --> 00:51:57,360
car and drag dragged her or
transferred her out of her car
1017
00:51:57,360 --> 00:52:00,600
into their car.
So there were no footprints and
1018
00:52:00,720 --> 00:52:03,800
there's going to be tire tracks
on the road regardless because
1019
00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:06,840
there's.
Rocks and things like that, but
1020
00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:08,480
most places will leave
something.
1021
00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:11,960
Yeah, I'm trying to.
Think if I have any theories
1022
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:17,040
that I didn't outline in this in
this episode, but I just, I
1023
00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:21,400
mean, the puppy is one that is
like, yeah, that's just weird.
1024
00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:24,040
What and if?
Somebody is trying to.
1025
00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:26,960
Throw somebody else off track,
It's it still doesn't make
1026
00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:28,920
sense.
I mean, I guess.
1027
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:32,560
I guess maybe it's like, think
of the most bizarre thing you
1028
00:52:32,560 --> 00:52:36,040
could do with this car to throw
investigators off.
1029
00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:39,400
That's pretty bizarre.
As far as Brandon Swanson, the
1030
00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:42,680
one that was on the phone with
his dad, I, I just, he was
1031
00:52:42,720 --> 00:52:46,640
talking to his dad.
I don't know.
1032
00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:49,080
And that was so.
Creepy.
1033
00:52:49,120 --> 00:52:52,480
I can't even imagine how
haunting it had to be a person
1034
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:54,320
and I say.
That because he says, oh shit.
1035
00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:57,640
Then the line went dead.
So in my mind, somebody grabbed
1036
00:52:57,640 --> 00:53:00,280
the phone in that moment and
shut it or or turned it off or
1037
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:01,640
whatever.
I don't remember what year this
1038
00:53:01,640 --> 00:53:03,160
was.
Let's see, was it a flip phone?
1039
00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:08,520
2008.
Probably not, but still like I
1040
00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:14,120
think he he came upon a person
and remember the dogs did trace
1041
00:53:14,120 --> 00:53:17,040
him to a fence line and then it
was just so there's probably a
1042
00:53:17,040 --> 00:53:19,200
car or a tractor or something at
that fence line.
1043
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:22,880
Who knows.
It's literally phenomenon
1044
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:23,960
phenomenal.
I mean.
1045
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:28,760
One of those things that's just
wild.
1046
00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:31,920
And and I just, I keep thinking
about the poor dad.
1047
00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:35,600
Yeah, same.
I can't even imagine.
1048
00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:40,160
I wonder if his dad was very,
very far away from him, if
1049
00:53:40,240 --> 00:53:44,280
that's why he didn't like we'll
go to him, you know, I don't
1050
00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:47,520
think so, because I think.
I remember the story and I
1051
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:51,000
thought he was near home.
I thought he was too.
1052
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:53,400
But.
I'm not 100% sure.
1053
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:55,560
I'm going to look it up because
now I want to know.
1054
00:53:55,720 --> 00:53:58,040
Now I want to know better
listeners, and I'll better
1055
00:53:58,040 --> 00:54:02,320
listeners do too, hopefully.
Because we're going to find out.
1056
00:54:03,320 --> 00:54:04,600
That's just so.
Wild though.
1057
00:54:04,640 --> 00:54:08,280
And so amazingly unsettling, it
really is.
1058
00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:11,040
And you know we.
As parents want to keep our kids
1059
00:54:11,040 --> 00:54:17,600
safe and it seems like there was
no way to do that in that
1060
00:54:17,600 --> 00:54:20,520
scenario especially.
OK, let's see what we got here.
1061
00:54:20,720 --> 00:54:26,760
So he was in a ditch in Lind,
Minnesota and Brian is his dad.
1062
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:30,760
Brian and his mom and net were
in Marshall, MN.
1063
00:54:31,480 --> 00:54:34,200
So let's see.
Oh my gosh, he was only 10
1064
00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:35,960
minutes away.
I cannot believe that he was
1065
00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:39,280
walking around for 47 minutes
and his dad was 10 minutes away.
1066
00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:43,160
No, no shade on his dad.
That just makes me sadder.
1067
00:54:44,120 --> 00:54:46,640
Well, yeah, I mean to me.
There was no reason to be
1068
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:48,240
worried.
There's no reason.
1069
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:50,280
He was just walking to get help.
OK?
1070
00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:53,000
He was probably going to go find
a phone or, well, I don't know
1071
00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:54,600
why he'd need a phone because
they have phone in his hand.
1072
00:54:54,600 --> 00:54:56,400
But I don't know.
That's just weird.
1073
00:54:56,400 --> 00:54:58,600
And it's possible if he was that
close, he could have known
1074
00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:00,600
someone.
Yeah.
1075
00:55:00,840 --> 00:55:03,200
True, that's wild.
I don't know.
1076
00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:05,680
It's just one of those weird,
weird things.
1077
00:55:06,040 --> 00:55:08,440
As you say, it's unsolved, so
that's not good.
1078
00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:11,240
I don't know.
That's just why it is sad.
1079
00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:13,520
There's so much that people go.
Through.
1080
00:55:13,840 --> 00:55:17,000
Well, that was really
interesting, and I hope we never
1081
00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:20,880
get to try and figure out some
weird mystery of our families
1082
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:21,880
disappearing.
Yeah.
1083
00:55:21,880 --> 00:55:25,520
No kidding.
Well, thank you very much.
1084
00:55:26,280 --> 00:55:27,280
All right.
You're very welcome.
1085
00:55:27,680 --> 00:55:30,160
Thanks for listening, everybody.
All right, if you've made it
1086
00:55:30,160 --> 00:55:32,440
this far.
Clearly you like a little mayhem
1087
00:55:32,440 --> 00:55:34,840
with your medicine, or you just
enjoy hearing us.
1088
00:55:34,840 --> 00:55:36,680
Ramble about weird medical
mysteries.
1089
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:40,040
Either way, we'd love you for
it, so hit that follow or.
1090
00:55:40,040 --> 00:55:43,000
Subscribe button wherever you're
listening and toss us a rating
1091
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:45,520
or review while.
You're at It helps other curious
1092
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:48,560
weirdos find the show, and we
know there are a.
1093
00:55:48,560 --> 00:55:51,200
Lot of you out there.
Oh, so many.
1094
00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:53,600
Come join the chaos.
Thanks for listening to
1095
00:55:53,600 --> 00:55:56,320
Medicine.
Mystery, mayhem and sometimes
1096
00:55:56,320 --> 00:55:58,400
murder.
Do you have an idea for an
1097
00:55:58,400 --> 00:55:59,800
episode?
Of this podcast.
1098
00:56:00,240 --> 00:56:03,320
Just want to say hi.
You can get in touch with us at
1099
00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:07,840
our M4 pod.
That's OURM
1100
00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:14,360
thenumberfourpod@gmail.com.
We read every e-mail, and
1101
00:56:14,360 --> 00:56:17,720
sometimes we even respond just
like real professionals.
1102
00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:20,760
Because we are.
Old friends with new.
1103
00:56:20,760 --> 00:56:24,040
Twists and lots of body bags.
