If You Believe in Miracles

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Welcome to M4 Medicine, mystery,
mayhem, and sometimes murder.

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I'm Andrea Marziano and RN with
35 years of experience across

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various fields.
From direct patient care in

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hospitals to home health,
geriatrics, and injury medicine,

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I face life, death, and
everything in between.

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And I'm Crystal Miller and RN
with 13 1/2 years of experience.

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My work spans home health,
Hospice, emergency care,

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geriatrics, and occupational
health.

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From the chaos of trauma based
quiet moments with patients,

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I've seen stories that defy
explanation.

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We've been friends for over 25
years and as nurses we've shared

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countless stories that have left
us and our families speechless.

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Now we're bringing those stories
and many more to you in

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medicine, mystery, mayhem, and
sometimes.

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Murder.
Each week, we'll uncover cases

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that challenge the boundaries of
medicine, sharing the human

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stories behind the science.
From puzzling medical mysteries

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to shocking real life crimes,
we'll bring you stories that'll

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leave you questioning everything
you thought you knew.

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While we're both experienced
nurses, we want to make it clear

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we're not here to give medical
advice.

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This podcast is about
storytelling, education and

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exploration, not diagnosing or
treating medical conditions.

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This is.
Medicine, mystery, mayhem, and

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sometimes murder.
Let's dive in.

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Hey Crystal, how are you?
I'm doing all right.

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How are you?
Well, to be honest, I'm

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struggling a little.
I have a right now.

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This is probably our most real
time recording that we're going

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to do.
And I feel like I feel a little

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bit hopeless and helpless with
what's going on in our States,

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United States, and the world
generally.

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So today I was thinking of ways
to come out of spiral, which

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people say that all the time
they were spiraling about

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something.
And I've actually never really

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understood that until recently
because I've been spiraling on

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some stuff.
And as we've talked about

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several times, this is not a
political podcast.

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There are a lot of things in our
environment that I'm really

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having a hard time with, and
some things that I'm feeling

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more and more for.
What I believe in is important,

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and so I'm doing that in the way
that I can.

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I know that you are too.
If anyone has any questions

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about our personal beliefs, feel
free to reach out to us

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independently.
We won't be covering them in

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this podcast though.
Because I have been feeling

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stressed and upset and
everything, I decided to do

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something that will release in a
couple of days.

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That made me feel happier.
And it's about mysterious

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medical recoveries.
Awesome, that sounds fun.

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Yeah, I have a few things and I
was a little bit disappointed to

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see that I searched and
searched, but most of the things

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that they talk about are at
least 10 years old, you know,

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I'll take.
Nobody's nobody's recovering

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anymore, sorry.
Apparently.

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Apparently there's no more
miracles anyway.

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But my sources for today are the
University of California

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Educational System magazine
about medical mystery, and it

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was actually pretty interesting.
They had several things.

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I didn't use any of their
articles though, because they

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didn't name any people.
And I like to actually be able

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to research things.
They talked about a patient,

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this patient that.
It's interesting reading though.

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Andthentoday.com talks about mom
receives a miracle by hugging

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her baby.
And that one is really

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interesting, too.
That's the one, the first story

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I'll talk about.
And then the bbc.com had several

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things about mystery of
vanishing cancer.

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Site of HMP Global Learning
Network had some information

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about a mom who survived being
45 minutes with no pulse.

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There were several things on
that one.

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That's one of the longest story
I have.

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Another one was for ABC News
dot, go.com, Health Ruby

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Repaira.
It's just the person who had no

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pulse for 45 minutes.
And ABC News reported on that as

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well.
And mayoclinic.org had some

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information about this woman
that had no pulse for 45

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minutes.
And we'll find out why Mayo

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Clinic cared.
And those are the areas that I

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had for research, so I'll just
dive right in.

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Sounds good.
Yeah.

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The first story was from 2010,
which now seems like a really

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long time ago, doesn't it?
Kidding.

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Not as long as it seems, and
longer than it seems.

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On the same hand, for sure.
But this story is about Kate and

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David Ogg, and they had
premature twins.

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They're 1 twin.
The son, Jamie, was declared

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dead after being born at 26
weeks.

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And if yes and his sister was
actually born at the same time

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and they were very small, you
know?

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And I say that even though it's
only slightly ironic because

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they were born at the same time.
There are rare occasions where

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twins will be born differently,
especially when they're

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fraternal like that, because 1
can be born and the other one

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not at the same time.
Not very common, but it can

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happen.
Jamie was declared dead after

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being born, like I said, at 26
weeks, but he was revived after

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two hours of skin to skin care
on his mother's chest.

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What?
Right, so the couple was told

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there was no hope for this baby,
he was just, he was declared

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dead and the mother there from
Australia, which is only

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partially related because they
called us kangaroo care and it's

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basically what we do, the skin
to skin contact, but they call

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that kangaroo care I.
Actually first heard it called

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Kangaroo Care, for what it's
worth.

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Really, I have never heard about
that until this what she did.

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She said that he was so cold
when she was handed him, she

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just wanted to warm him up.
She knew he was dead but just

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wanted to warm him up so she
which?

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Ironically, she couldn't have if
he did, so that's interesting.

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But that was her feeling if she
could just warm up.

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She didn't anticipate what
results she had but just felt

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because she was so cold her
motherly and him up and she

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asked the father David also to
do skin skin with him.

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So they were apparently in her
bed next to each other with the

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baby in between, and they just
just couldn't let him go.

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Yet he miraculously began
breathing and showing signs of

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life.
That is wild.

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I know after that, after about 5
more minutes, he began to move.

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The baby's doctor told the odds
his movements were reflective.

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Reflective and not a sign of
life.

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Oh no.
So here they are.

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He's warming.
As we said, if you were really

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dead, he that couldn't happen.
But he was warming and his

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mother didn't believe it.
He she continued to cuddle him

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and he opened his eyes and then
Kate put some breast milk on her

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finger and he accepted it.
He was sucking on her finger.

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No, she didn't.
She put the stuff that comes

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before breast milk.
Colostrum.

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The name of Colostrum on her
finger.

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That's right, she did and that's
right.

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He was there and just was
getting stronger and stronger.

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It said here that they're
finally goodbye turned into a

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hello.
Wow.

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I know.
And Kate said I'd carried him

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beside me for only six months,
not long enough, but I wanted to

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meet him and hold him and for
him to know us.

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And she said they resigned
themselves to the fact that they

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were going to lose him, but they
were just trying to make the

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most out of those last precious
moments.

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Wow.
So this experience garnered

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international media attention
because it's like, what?

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Naturally.
I know and it said this was

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interesting because this
statement could go both ways

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because it dramatically
highlighted the benefits of

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parents holding newborn skin to
skin on their bare chests.

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OK, but yeah, that's good.
No?

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And and they they do say that
while they thought he was dead,

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there are a variety of thoughts
about it. 1 is that his

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heartbeat just was so
inconsistent and erratic that he

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didn't show signs of life right
away.

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However, if they had not held
him and warmed him up, maybe he

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really would have just died.
Sure.

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Well, I imagine he this is going
to sound cold, and I don't mean

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it that way, but I imagine he
would have been set aside right

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like.
And work on the other twin

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because he.
Worked on the other twin, right?

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Yeah, stillborn at 26 weeks
after this happened.

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I think that for many of us, we
would have been high alert,

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like, what's happening?
Could they die now?

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What's going on?
They did say that they promised

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themselves they wouldn't drive
themselves crazy worrying about

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other potential problems related
to the prematurity.

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And they decided they would
enjoy the babies cross the

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bridges when they got to them if
they came.

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And if there was a problem, they
figured we'd find out about it

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eventually.
Now, that doesn't mean that

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nothing was checked into.
I mean, it's no, I know, but.

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As a mother of preemies, that.
Can't even.

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That's commendable.
I can't even imagine I.

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I.
Remember, sorry, go ahead.

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Oh, I was just going to say I
don't think I could have gone

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there.
I think I would have been

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hysterical.
I remember when Kira had to come

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home on a permanent, not
permanent, but a 24 hour pulse

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ox machine that like would
scream bloody murder if her

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oxygen went down.
I barely slept.

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I remember the whole point.
Of the monitor was so I could

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sleep and yeah, that was not
happening because I was I was

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just saying always anticipating
that next time that alarm was

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going to go off.
And of course to me, I was not I

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was not a nurse then I would had
no medical training.

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And so to me at the time I was
like every time that alarm went

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off it could mean she's dead.
And that is true.

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It's unlikely, but it's still
because I did not know what I

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know now.
It just I there was, yeah, I

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can't commend, commend them.
Couldn't do it.

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I don't think I could if she did
say during an interview though,

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that they do think about the
fact that they had a brush with

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death, but they don't let it run
their lives.

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And just as a note, Jamie and
his sister Emily were conceived

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during in in vitro, which is not
really relevant to what

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happened.
I mean, it just that's not

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relevant, but it's just a piece
of information.

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She and her husband had already
decided before the twins were

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born that they wanted to have
another child closely related to

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that time.
They wanted about a year in

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between them when they decided
it was time.

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Right?
Exactly.

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I'm like, Nah.
But when they decided it was

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time to do it again, she found
out she was already 3 months

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pregnant.
But yeah, which is another story

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altogether.
But I've heard of a lot of

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people who had been trying,
trying, trying, and then they

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stopped trying and all of a
sudden they realized she's

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pregnant.
Because I think some of it has

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to do with the stress that
they've taken off themselves and

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just say, OK, well.
I was a counselor in a fertility

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group.
I basically help people read

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their basal charts, which I'm
that's like charting your

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period.
I'm not going to get on with

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that or charting your
temperature during your period,

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whatever.
Anyway.

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And I heard that a lot.
It was almost like the body,

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their body didn't know how to
get pregnant.

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And so they would do it through
IUI or IVF and then they would,

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they would have a baby.
And then all of a sudden it was

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like their body was like, oh,
that's how we do it.

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And they have more kids on their
own.

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So it seems to be a pretty
common phenomenon I guess.

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Yeah, and we're going to, Yeah.
And we're going to talk a little

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bit about how the body might
split a switch to learn how to

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do.
Kate had a few problems with

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carrying the child or the
pregnancies.

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The one with the twins or the
second one?

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No, the one with the twins.
One of the things that I wanted

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to mention is that Kate had been
wanting to try for another

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child, as I said with IVF, but
found out she was pregnant.

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This pregnancy, the one who was
of the baby who was named

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00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:16,760
Charlie, he tried to arrive
extremely early at 20 weeks, but

231
00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:20,000
made it to term because she got
stitches to close her cervix.

232
00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:23,880
And she also was able to hire
someone to assist with the twins

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00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:26,720
while she was on bed rest.
Because having twins, being on,

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00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:29,800
yeah, having twins and being on
bed rest doesn't always work out

235
00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:32,000
that well because it's almost
impossible.

236
00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:36,320
Yeah, exactly.
But one of the things too is

237
00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:39,440
that the mom had gestational
diabetes while she was pregnant

238
00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:42,080
with Charlie.
And what's amazing is he weighed

239
00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:46,040
more than 10 lbs at birth, which
was more four times the combined

240
00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:49,000
weight his brother and sister
that were born at 26 feet.

241
00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:55,160
Yeah, at this time of the
article, it was back in 2014 or

242
00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:57,800
10.
She was saying that the three

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00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:00,720
babies wore the same size diaper
because.

244
00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:03,000
And Jamie?
Excuse me, Charlie could wear

245
00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:07,440
Jamie his older brother's
clothes at birth and called the

246
00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:10,840
youngest one their little sumo
because compared to the other

247
00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:13,280
two, he was ginormous.
Right.

248
00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:18,160
And she also said she held
Charlie for 3 1/2 hours after

249
00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:20,920
the delivery and he was
perfectly healthy when he was

250
00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:22,960
born.
She said she had instructed her

251
00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:25,240
doctor just give him to me when
he's born.

252
00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:27,320
And she said she's more
confident in telling medical

253
00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:29,800
professionals what she wants and
related to their babies.

254
00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:32,760
All three children were reported
to have developed normally and

255
00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:35,280
all three children are now
teenagers.

256
00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:38,560
Yes, have you?
You had your children long

257
00:12:38,560 --> 00:12:40,960
enough to go.
Did they give you your baby,

258
00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:42,840
like, immediately or did they
take it?

259
00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:46,240
And yeah, OK, so I had it over
the span of 10 years.

260
00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:48,280
And so I experienced it both
ways.

261
00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:50,840
But I got to tell you, this is
just a silly, silly, anecdotal

262
00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:53,080
thing that's barely related, but
I think it's funny.

263
00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:55,800
That's a really bad idea when
you have a short umbilical cord.

264
00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:00,920
There was one one baby, I can't
remember it was to be honest,

265
00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:03,840
but they went to put it, put
them up on my chest and all of a

266
00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:07,840
sudden it was like.
Whoops, Baby's back in.

267
00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:10,480
Whoopsies.
Can you imagine?

268
00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:13,200
It goes whoop right back in.
That would be quite a thing.

269
00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:17,240
Yeah, well, I had both of my
children via C-section also back

270
00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:20,720
in the day, because it was 89
and 92, that wasn't a thing.

271
00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:22,200
They showed me the babies and
said bye.

272
00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:26,280
Yeah, Sianna was C-section and
they, yeah, they showed her to

273
00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:27,760
my head.
You know, I'm behind the

274
00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:30,960
curtain, my head like she is and
I'm like my, my blood pressure

275
00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:35,440
is like 42 / 10 like.
Right, exactly.

276
00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:37,960
Those are different.
Different times and different

277
00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:41,520
experiences.
One thing that they did mention

278
00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:44,760
in this article is to remember
that this wasn't a miracle cure.

279
00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:48,480
It wouldn't have happened
necessarily and other cases not

280
00:13:48,680 --> 00:13:50,440
going to happen for everybody,
right?

281
00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:54,800
And it said, and someone named,
she's a nurse researcher and her

282
00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:59,400
name is Susan Luddington.
And she pioneered kangaroo care

283
00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:02,160
in the United States.
And she cautions, quote, it does

284
00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:04,920
not resurrect the dead.
And that's important to

285
00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:06,920
remember.
And there's one thing too, that

286
00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:10,800
I had read the articles I read
about her, and it said that some

287
00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:14,160
people were really upset because
they had lost children and they

288
00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:17,960
felt like the message was we
didn't let our children enough.

289
00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:19,960
Ouch.
I know.

290
00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:21,800
And that would be such a hard
thought to have.

291
00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:23,600
And that's not at all what they
were saying.

292
00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:26,520
They were just saying in this
case the miracle happened and

293
00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:30,040
they did use the miracle word a
lot of times through here and

294
00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:32,360
medical professionals don't use
that word easily.

295
00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:34,720
No, they don't.
But I thought that was a really

296
00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:37,720
sweet story that even though
they thought that they were

297
00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:40,720
saying goodbye, they ended up.
Another thing I was looking at

298
00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:46,600
is this was more sort of a
generic a few stories because it

299
00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:50,560
was part of the University of
California articles that didn't

300
00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:53,880
name actual names.
And I kind of wish it had

301
00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:57,080
because as I mentioned before we
came on to recording is I

302
00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:02,000
hesitate to report things that I
can't research myself, but I do

303
00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:05,240
believe the University of
California has researchers that

304
00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:08,480
know what they're doing.
We'll go from there.

305
00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:12,000
This is 1 about cancer.
One of the things that I was

306
00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:15,000
learning is a few patients have
made rare and unexpected

307
00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:18,200
recoveries, leaving doctors to
scratch their heads.

308
00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:21,080
And David Robson, who's been
looking into a lot of these,

309
00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:24,280
said it's it's very interesting
to look at some of these

310
00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:27,560
stories.
And he said that he thinks some

311
00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:31,160
of these cases could provide
clues that are vital to tackling

312
00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:33,040
cancer and maybe even finding
cures.

313
00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:36,240
One of the stories that they
had, again, these stories were

314
00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:40,200
written in 2015.
I'm not sure exactly if this was

315
00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:43,360
a new experience or not, but it
was a case that they said the

316
00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:46,560
baffled everyone involved.
There was a 74 year old woman

317
00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:49,280
who had been troubled by a rash
that wouldn't go away.

318
00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:50,960
She was just trying to deal with
it.

319
00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:53,680
But by the time she arrived at
the hospital, her lower right

320
00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:56,880
leg was covered in waxy lumps.
They were described as eruptions

321
00:15:56,880 --> 00:16:01,160
of angry red and livid purple.
They tested the skin and they

322
00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:04,080
found out it was carcinoma, a
form of skin cancer.

323
00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:06,920
As you may know.
She was 74 and this was her

324
00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:09,920
whole leg was covered.
It was spreading at least on the

325
00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:11,280
skin.
They're not sure where else it

326
00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:14,560
would have been, but they
decided that radiation wouldn't

327
00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:17,120
have been effective because it
was her entire leg.

328
00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:20,240
They couldn't really remove them
because there were so many.

329
00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:22,360
So they're talking about
amputation.

330
00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:27,160
She was reported to say that she
wasn't really thinking that was

331
00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:29,480
going to be a good idea and also
they were concerned that she

332
00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:32,720
would not adapt well to a
prosthetic limb and they just

333
00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:34,800
weren't sure she would survive
the surgery.

334
00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:36,880
Just because she has a bad
attitude or what?

335
00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:41,480
Well, if they didn't really say
why, wonder if there were other

336
00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:43,880
health concerns they had him in
this scenario.

337
00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:47,120
So they were kind of waiting to
decide what to do or looking at

338
00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:50,480
the options.
And then the quote miracle

339
00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:53,240
started.
They said, OK, this woman was

340
00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:56,200
actually in Dublin, but this is
part of the University of

341
00:16:56,240 --> 00:17:00,760
California University study.
And it said she had no treatment

342
00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:03,720
at all.
But the tumors were shrinking

343
00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:05,240
and shriveling before their
eyes.

344
00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:06,960
Yeah.
And they were watching for a few

345
00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:10,560
months, and the tumors just
disappeared after 20 weeks.

346
00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:14,200
The patient was cancer free, 20
weeks, 20 weeks.

347
00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:15,760
What?
Right.

348
00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:18,760
And they said there had been no
doubt about the diagnosis

349
00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:20,599
because a lot of people said,
well, maybe you're just wrong

350
00:17:20,599 --> 00:17:23,880
about the diagnosis, but they
had biopsied them and they did

351
00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:27,520
more biopsies and scans and
there was nothing on those scans

352
00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:29,440
it showed that it was completely
gone.

353
00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:34,240
She had healed herself somehow.
And they said the quote was

354
00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:36,680
everyone was thrilled and a bit
puzzled.

355
00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:38,480
That was kind of an
understatement.

356
00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:42,120
But what they were saying is
that it shows that the possible,

357
00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:45,000
it is possible for the body to
clear cancer even if it's

358
00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:47,800
incredibly rare.
So the ability to clear cancer

359
00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:51,200
is, you know, restating
incredibly rare.

360
00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:55,840
Now they were wondering how, of
course, because this is a big

361
00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:58,120
deal because if they can figure
out how, then that would be

362
00:17:58,120 --> 00:18:00,840
great.
Well, the patient believed it

363
00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:03,120
was the hand of God.
She had kissed a religious,

364
00:18:03,120 --> 00:18:05,720
religious relic just before the
healing had set in.

365
00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:09,040
And OK.
But scientists also wondered if

366
00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:10,280
there could have been something
else.

367
00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:13,960
And they didn't want to discount
her because they couldn't really

368
00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:15,800
explain it.
But one of the things they were

369
00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:19,000
talking about is something that
scientists have discovered with

370
00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:21,520
cancer that occasionally there
can be what's called spontaneous

371
00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:25,040
regression, where cancer will
happen and then all of a sudden

372
00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:28,080
it just start to disappear.
There's one study they talked to

373
00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:31,280
or one patient they talked about
who was two and had what

374
00:18:31,360 --> 00:18:34,640
appeared to be a lethal cancer
and it just on his spine and it

375
00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:36,920
just went away.
And this is similar.

376
00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:41,000
But one of the things they say
is that they think it's possible

377
00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:45,960
that when they do a biopsy or
somehow manipulate the cells,

378
00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:49,880
that it kind of air quote turns
their ability to fight it on.

379
00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:54,040
Because our bodies, our immune
system, every single day is

380
00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:57,240
hunting out and destroying cells
that are mutated all the time,

381
00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:00,840
every day, all of our lives.
But occasionally these cells

382
00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:04,960
that are killed just on a
routine basis are missed and

383
00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:08,760
they they managed to sneak away,
away really from our immune

384
00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:12,080
system and they grow into actual
tumors.

385
00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:15,160
But every single day our body is
fighting to clear things that

386
00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:18,880
don't belong in our body.
You know, it's encapsulating

387
00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:22,240
things, it's shedding things,
it's doing, doing its job.

388
00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:25,720
But sometimes it doesn't.
But usually by the time a person

389
00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:30,200
comes to doctors, they've got
cancer that is well beyond the

390
00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:34,280
initial feel cell, few cells.
It's got a lot going on and

391
00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:37,680
recovery without intervention is
unlikely.

392
00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:41,040
One of the things that they have
found is that one in 100,000

393
00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:43,240
cancer patients are thought to
shed the disease without

394
00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:46,040
treatment.
That's not very many, but still

395
00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:51,520
1 is a lot to me in 100,000
cancer patients.

396
00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:54,640
Now, I didn't know where that
study came from, where that fact

397
00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:58,360
came from, so I don't know how
they know, but that's what it

398
00:19:58,360 --> 00:20:01,400
was said in this article.
So they're back to the theory

399
00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:03,600
that the immune system may have
been.

400
00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:08,960
Subdued for whatever reason and
then these biopsies or the kind

401
00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:12,760
of air quote, shaking up of the
immune system may trigger it to

402
00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:15,680
turn back on.
One of the things that this

403
00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:20,920
article noticed noted, excuse
me, is that while there are

404
00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:26,560
tumors that do seem to go away,
there does seem to be in this

405
00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:30,480
article it said if you leave the
patient untreated, they usually

406
00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:34,960
die within weeks if not days.
And this was by Armin Rashidi at

407
00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:37,040
Washington University in Saint
Louis.

408
00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:40,680
But he.
Found sorry, sorry if I said

409
00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:46,120
your name there, but he found 46
cases in which acute myeloid

410
00:20:46,120 --> 00:20:48,160
leukemia regressed of its own
accord.

411
00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:50,320
I looked into the article where
this went.

412
00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:53,680
It was an extensive article
National Institute of Health

413
00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:57,880
Archives, but I I didn't bring
any of that back in the main,

414
00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:00,360
the main idea is that it
regressed this.

415
00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:04,080
These cancers regressed of their
own accord, but only 8 of avoid

416
00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:06,560
relapse in the long term.
This doctor said that if you

417
00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:09,280
find a random on college and ask
if this can happen, this

418
00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:13,040
regression, 99% would say no, it
makes no sense.

419
00:21:13,360 --> 00:21:16,520
However, it is seen occasionally
and now one of the things they

420
00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:20,240
noted that in the late 19th
century, William Bradley Coley

421
00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:23,000
was struggling to save a patient
who had a large tumor in his

422
00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:25,680
neck.
They've had five operations for

423
00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:28,120
this and it just wasn't going
away.

424
00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:31,760
But he got a nasty skin
infection with a scorching

425
00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:35,080
fever, and by the time he
recovered from this fever, the

426
00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:38,840
tumor was gone back to the idea
of it triggered his immune

427
00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:42,320
system.
So they wondered if infecting

428
00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:45,520
them, if Coley wondered if he
infected people deliberately

429
00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:49,800
with bacteria or treated them
with toxins, if it would destroy

430
00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:53,440
inoperable tumors.
Unfortunately, it didn't seem to

431
00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:55,840
be the case, but they're still
studying it.

432
00:21:55,840 --> 00:22:00,280
Actually, this is to me, and I
am not an oncologist, so I don't

433
00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:02,680
know if it's related, but I'm
wondering if that's where some

434
00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:06,080
of the stem cell research
started as thinking maybe it can

435
00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:08,920
bump their systems into
recovery.

436
00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:12,920
But there are some clues that
this triggering of the immune

437
00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:16,320
system could actually assist.
Could infection be the key to

438
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:19,360
stimulating spontaneous
remission, just as a general

439
00:22:19,360 --> 00:22:21,440
basis?
We don't know.

440
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:27,520
But one of the things that other
papers have noted is that some

441
00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:30,240
of these tumors have vanished
after having diphtheria,

442
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:34,320
gonorrhea, hepatitis, influenza,
malaria, measles, smallpox and

443
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:37,240
syphilis.
Now I don't think I want to have

444
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:40,640
those things.
I'm curious if that's untreated,

445
00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:44,360
those things like leaving,
leaving those to be beat by the

446
00:22:44,360 --> 00:22:47,080
immune system.
And so it kind of gets caught up

447
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:50,840
in the fray or if it's just
because the immune system is

448
00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:54,400
ignited, antibiotics or not, it,
it gets caught up in that fray,

449
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:56,160
right?
Like that's, that's fascinating.

450
00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:01,160
Lots of lots of studies going on
about it and I did not dive into

451
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:03,600
that because I could have been
studying that for the next 6

452
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:05,320
years.
But I thought it was an

453
00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:08,840
interesting side note.
And so it makes you wonder what

454
00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:10,840
doesn't kill you can really make
you stronger.

455
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:15,200
Right, right, right.
I just think that it's so

456
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:18,800
interesting that there is some
possibility that just triggering

457
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:22,040
that immune response can clear
some things up.

458
00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:25,160
Now, are we advocating no
treatment to cancer?

459
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:28,520
Absolutely not.
We are not.

460
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:31,920
We strongly support early
detention.

461
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:39,880
Detention we strongly support or
we have no idea.

462
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:45,480
What do we support, Crystal?
We strongly support.

463
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:47,920
What's it called?
Screening strongly, that's what.

464
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:50,720
We do.
All right, Andrea, this is what

465
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:54,560
you support.
Trust me, we strongly support.

466
00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:58,880
Early screening, early
detection, and early mitigation.

467
00:23:59,120 --> 00:24:03,200
That's correct.
Well, listeners, that took like

468
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:05,280
5 times for us to get through
that sentence.

469
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:06,560
I'm not even going to cut all of
it out.

470
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:07,960
We'll see.
Wow.

471
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,360
Anyway, the early detection and
treatment is vital, but

472
00:24:11,360 --> 00:24:15,200
occasionally people do recover
from these things without any

473
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:19,680
clear reason or scientifically
supported theories.

474
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:25,040
And the last thing I have is the
story that actually had the most

475
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:26,920
information about it for the
ones I read.

476
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:30,960
This is about a Florida mother
who survived 45 minutes with no

477
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:33,280
pulse.
And this was 2014.

478
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:38,320
The story said from all
appearances, Ruby Rapiera

479
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:41,880
Casimiro was dead.
I will now call her Ruby because

480
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:45,920
that's a lot of last name.
Her heart stopped beating for 45

481
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:48,600
minutes.
The family was told to say

482
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:50,800
goodbye.
So here's what was happening.

483
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:55,200
So she had had AC section and
they delivered a healthy child.

484
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:59,640
And then shortly thereafter,
really, really shortly, she

485
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,640
started to develop some, some
problems and some other

486
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:04,880
symptoms.
So it just, like I said, it just

487
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:08,600
began as a routine C-section and
something that hospitals do

488
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:09,920
every day.
Doesn't it become sort of

489
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:11,440
routine things that happen all
the time?

490
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:15,040
But it really, if we think about
what is happening there, it

491
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:17,640
really is not any more routine
than anything else.

492
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:22,600
But what happened for her is she
suffered a severe, rare amniotic

493
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:25,520
fluid embolism.
Yeah.

494
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:28,040
And, and I had not actually
heard about that.

495
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:30,160
But what happens is the fluid
that's.

496
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:32,320
Really.
Yeah, I hadn't heard about it.

497
00:25:32,360 --> 00:25:33,600
You'd heard about it?
Really.

498
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:35,760
Well, you went to school a lot
more recently than I have.

499
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:39,640
Some people, that's why.
But what actually happens is the

500
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:43,320
fluid surrounding the baby, the
amniotic fluid that is supposed

501
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:45,480
to be in the uterus, enters the
bloodstream.

502
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:49,600
They're not actually sure
exactly why, but it's kind of

503
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:51,680
like a reverse flow, I guess.
And.

504
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,960
Typically tend to happen in
C-section specifically.

505
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:58,720
It didn't say that in the
information that I saw, but that

506
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:00,840
could make sense, especially
because they do think it's

507
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:03,520
related to an inflammatory
response and surgery is

508
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,160
definitely going to do that.
But what happens is this

509
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:09,680
amniotic fluid enters the
bloodstream, hogging the heart

510
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:12,960
and creating a vacuum that stops
the circulation because it is an

511
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:14,760
embolism.
I looked at some of the stuff

512
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,920
that they had related to this
article and some other articles.

513
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:20,720
One came from the Mayo Clinic
and the Mayo Clinic is still

514
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:23,240
saying that they don't really
understand them.

515
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:26,280
But what the Mayo Clinic
reported is that they think that

516
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:29,160
the Amnot amniotic fluid
contains components that cause

517
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:32,160
an inflammatory reaction, as I
mentioned, and activates

518
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:34,920
clotting in the mother's lung
and blood vessels because part

519
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:38,200
of the system, part of what has
to happen when a mother delivers

520
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:41,240
is that bleeding has to stop.
So there's some thought that

521
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,440
this is part of what happens,
that amniotic fluid when it's

522
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:48,080
released later will trigger this
response.

523
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:52,360
But they're not really sure.
But these these embolisms can

524
00:26:52,360 --> 00:26:54,760
lead to brand brain damage or
even brain death.

525
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:58,160
As we know, it's estimated that
amniotic fluid embolisms cause

526
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:01,120
up to 10% of maternal deaths in
developing countries.

527
00:27:01,120 --> 00:27:04,520
According to Mayo Clinic, death
can occur within an hour of the

528
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:08,120
start of symptoms.
And partially it's because it's

529
00:27:08,120 --> 00:27:13,040
unclear at first what happens.
Where this woman was Ruby was,

530
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:16,240
it was Boca Raton.
And the hospital spokesman,

531
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:20,640
Thomas Jakarta, says that this
problem is normally diagnosed

532
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:24,360
post mortem, so they don't
usually diagnose it until the

533
00:27:24,360 --> 00:27:25,840
person is dead.
OK.

534
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:30,440
So that's not that helpful at
that. .1 of the things they said

535
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:33,600
is the team, the delivery team
realized right away something

536
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:36,400
was wrong and she lost
consciousness.

537
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:39,240
Shortly after the birth, she
lost consciousness and then just

538
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:41,560
very quickly her heart stopped
beating.

539
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:45,080
But before it stopped, it had
this weird just sort of really

540
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:48,320
in inefficient beat.
But when it stopped, of course,

541
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:52,920
they started resuscitation
efforts and they continued until

542
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:54,640
the doctors felt there was no
hope left.

543
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:56,960
At that point, as I mentioned
earlier, they called in the

544
00:27:56,960 --> 00:28:00,040
family and said they didn't
think there was any hope.

545
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:02,720
They were getting ready to turn
off all supportive care.

546
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:06,640
And the Doctor Who is in charge
of the code said just before he

547
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:10,400
turned off any supportive care,
she began to have a rhythm, a

548
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:13,160
heart rhythm.
And he said to keep it simple.

549
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:16,000
I simply believe it's truly a
miracle.

550
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:19,400
Wait a second, if she was on
supportive care, then she wasn't

551
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:20,400
pulseless.
She.

552
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,640
Was except for external pulses.
So she was.

553
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:26,120
She had none of her own at that
point.

554
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:30,480
What they said is that despite
having no pulse for 45 minutes,

555
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,520
she had no neurological damage,
no bruises from the chest

556
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:37,760
compressions, no burn marks from
the paddles which is very

557
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:42,320
unusual because used to teach
CPR for the Red Cross and one of

558
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:45,240
the things that some of the EM
TS would say if there were no

559
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:46,640
broken do.
It.

560
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:50,440
Right, Yeah, which, you know, it
sounds cold and heartless, but

561
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:52,880
really you have to put a lot of
pressure is what the whole.

562
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,520
Point of CPR for the record.
Ate it, ate it, ate it.

563
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:57,640
Yeah, well.
It's nice how it works.

564
00:28:58,040 --> 00:28:59,440
I didn't realize what it works,
I say.

565
00:28:59,960 --> 00:29:02,960
Ruby said she remembered nothing
that happened after her daughter

566
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:06,000
was born.
She said that her 21 year old

567
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,360
niece said that the family
members had gathered to say

568
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:12,720
goodbye and the doctors were
just about to.

569
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,720
The niece said the doctors were
just about to call the time of

570
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:19,760
death as it had been almost 45
minutes, which is a long, long,

571
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,360
long code.
But they kept hoping.

572
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,040
Santos Denise said my
grandmother was crying and

573
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:28,120
begging for God to take her
instead of Ruby.

574
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:30,400
So grandma was saying please
trade.

575
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:34,320
And then just moments later,
Denise said a blip was hurt on

576
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:36,600
the heart monitor.
And she said that there were

577
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,200
about 15 people in the room
working on her and they all

578
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:41,880
started crying and they said
they had never seen anything

579
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:43,800
like that.
I have to back up a little bit.

580
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:47,160
Runs a code for 45 minutes.
Exactly.

581
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:50,880
And why did they keep going?
Yeah, because it does not

582
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:53,600
usually happen.
But the doctors, it doesn't

583
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:57,840
really say why they decided to
keep going because really, they

584
00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:00,280
said they kept going until they
felt there was no hope left.

585
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:02,840
But I'm not sure why they
thought there was hope because

586
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:05,280
they said she was pouseless for
45 minutes.

587
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:07,200
So I'm not sure why they kept
going.

588
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:11,160
Yeah, it's very unusual.
It is very unusual, yeah.

589
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:13,560
I would like to note for the
record, that's very unusual.

590
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,040
Exactly.
But it didn't say at any point

591
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:20,440
why they didn't just call it at
10-15 minutes.

592
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:23,720
I mean, they didn't say and.
They were, they were teaching

593
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:25,920
hospital, they were rotating
students who were doing CP.

594
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:30,160
Who knows, who knows, but for
Ruby this was really good.

595
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:31,440
Really good.
Good.

596
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:34,400
Yeah.
One of the things though that as

597
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:37,520
her heart started beating again,
the doctors were warning there

598
00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:42,040
is a high likelihood of brain
down very high because have been

599
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:46,040
even though CPR was happening as
we know the blood isn't flowing

600
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:49,480
like it normally does.
It's not doing its full job

601
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:52,480
because it's going just as far
as these compressions can go.

602
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,240
As they're going as far as as
strong as the person doing it

603
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:57,880
is.
Yeah, exactly.

604
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:02,680
But one of the things Denise
said is that her mom said she

605
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,160
didn't believe that God does
things halfway and wouldn't

606
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:07,640
bring her back to life.
You know, whatever we believe

607
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:11,560
about religion or, or or that
sort of thing, it what matters

608
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:13,200
is what they believed at the
time.

609
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:15,640
And I think that's great.
Can we prove it?

610
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:17,200
No.
Obviously not.

611
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:20,920
Yeah.
But sometimes I think faith of

612
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:24,760
whatever it is, is what kind of
holds people together.

613
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:27,680
Sometimes, sure.
Hours later, Ruby woke up in the

614
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,480
intensive care unit, and they
said she began pulling at the

615
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,360
tubes in her nose and mouth.
And she said this is a quote

616
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:35,200
from her.
I kept hearing people talking

617
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:37,360
about whether I was having
involuntary movements.

618
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:39,240
I noticed all my family was
there.

619
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:41,880
I thought I was just waking up
after going to sleep.

620
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:45,240
Can you imagine to wake up and
go what the heck?

621
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:47,880
A family member showed her a
picture taking her with her

622
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:51,800
newborn daughter and she said I
don't remember taking that

623
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:54,200
picture and I wasn't looking at
the baby in the picture which

624
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:56,840
isn't normal.
I feel like she may have, in

625
00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:00,680
that picture, noticed that
something was weird even though

626
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:02,880
people there did not.
And of course, she was looking

627
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,400
at it after realizing she had
been almost dead.

628
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:09,520
But she said the last memory she
had was saying that her nose

629
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:12,200
felt stuffy.
And then before that, though,

630
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:15,200
the next, the memory before that
was she remembered being wheeled

631
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:17,240
into the recovery room at the
C-section.

632
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:20,520
And again, she had asked someone
for a tissue because her nose

633
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:22,480
felt stuffy.
She said it felt like she had

634
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:25,320
fallen asleep.
And she said afterwards about

635
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:28,520
the experience, she said that
she felt herself floating along

636
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,680
a tunnel, which is actually
something that's very common

637
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:33,320
with people with near death
experiences.

638
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:35,680
And we will have an episode on
that somewhere in the future.

639
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:38,400
They often feel like they're in
a a tunnel or following a light

640
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:40,520
or something.
But she said, and this is

641
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:43,440
another quote, I remember seeing
a spiritual being who I believe

642
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:45,920
was my dad.
And she said I remember the

643
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:48,560
light behind him and many other
spiritual beings.

644
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:51,920
And then she said suddenly a
force stopped her.

645
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,280
He said she knew she couldn't go
any further.

646
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:57,840
She still feels like she was
watching herself in a video and

647
00:32:57,840 --> 00:32:59,840
the entire experience seems
unreal.

648
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:04,320
But when she felt that that she
couldn't go any further, that's

649
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:07,000
when she felt like she had come
back.

650
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:11,440
And she said that the ordeal was
more difficult for husband,

651
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:14,320
mother, sister and other family
members because they were going

652
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,120
through emotional roller
coaster, thinking she was dead

653
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:21,840
and then feeling overjoyed.
I know she was hanging out and

654
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:24,520
she said they were feeling this
roller coaster of thinking she

655
00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:27,880
was dead, overjoyed she was
alive, and then fearing that she

656
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:30,120
would have brain damage and then
realizing.

657
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:32,840
And stuff, right?
Exactly.

658
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:35,800
And then to realize she was
fine, everyone's just she said

659
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:39,160
it was really a really, really
difficult thing for them.

660
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:41,800
She said after her near death
experience, the time with her

661
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:45,440
husband and their son and infant
daughter was even more precious.

662
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:48,880
And she said now we're savoring
the moments and every day as a

663
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:50,760
gift.
And that's definitely things

664
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:53,640
that I hear from people who have
had near death experiences or

665
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:57,000
read about even people who have
had tough experiences.

666
00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:00,320
I know for me, after my cancer
experience made it much easier

667
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:02,000
to be grateful for everything I
had.

668
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:04,560
Now I'm always grateful.
Am I always perfect and happy?

669
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:07,760
No.
But does it change my

670
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:10,760
perspective on things?
And I know in the article I read

671
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:13,760
that she had said to one of the
doctors, you don't have to be

672
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:17,280
afraid of dying, which gave me
chills because I was like, wow,

673
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:20,320
that's for her to say that.
Yeah.

674
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:22,400
She just said you don't have to
be afraid.

675
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:24,960
Because of her experience.
She felt like it wasn't scary

676
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:27,800
anymore.
And I have quite a few people

677
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:30,239
who have come close to that or
read about it.

678
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:32,800
One of the things that I was
reading in some of this

679
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:38,120
information, as a poll in 2010
found that 52% of doctors had

680
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:41,120
witnessed treatment results they
considered miraculous or

681
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:42,960
unexplainable by current
science.

682
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:47,080
I think there's a lot of times
that would 50 percent, 52%.

683
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:48,239
Wow.
OK.

684
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:50,600
I didn't see a poll more
recently than that.

685
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:54,199
It's interesting to me that
people who see life and death

686
00:34:54,199 --> 00:34:57,320
situations in the ER and and
that sort of thing, there are a

687
00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:00,200
lot of times that it can't be
explained just going all of them

688
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:02,840
they were OK, but many times
that's not true.

689
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:05,280
But still there are times that
they can't explain it.

690
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:08,960
And one of the things that they
think in some cases there's been

691
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:11,880
a misdiagnosis.
So maybe the diagnosis they had

692
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:14,400
wasn't correct.
And so they're mysterious

693
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:17,160
recovery was actually because
maybe they had something

694
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:19,240
different.
These cases we talked were

695
00:35:19,240 --> 00:35:20,960
actually what they said they
were.

696
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:23,480
There was proof that the lady
had cancer.

697
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:26,560
There was proof that the baby
had not been responding.

698
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:30,960
There was proof that this woman
had no pulse for 45 minutes, but

699
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:35,240
some, sometimes it underlie it
shows an underlying circumstance

700
00:35:35,240 --> 00:35:37,360
or situation that nobody knew
anything about.

701
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,080
And once they address that, then
the person recovered.

702
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:43,120
Now, there were a bunch of
different possibilities of that

703
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:46,240
where I was reading about
diagnosis that were wrong and so

704
00:35:46,240 --> 00:35:48,520
that, yeah, they stopped having
what they thought they had, but

705
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:50,760
they never had it in the first
place, if that makes sense.

706
00:35:51,240 --> 00:35:53,840
But yeah, whether you think
these things are miracles or a

707
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:57,160
body's amazing recovering
ability, these stories were in

708
00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:01,000
my heart and gave me hope and a
time of what I feel is darkness.

709
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:03,880
Awesome.
It reminds me of a story my dad

710
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:07,240
has of when he was on a mission
for the Mormon church.

711
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:11,640
He had a an investigator, they
call them, who they had been

712
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:15,840
visiting and teaching.
And one day they they being my

713
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:19,200
dad and his mission companion,
they got a call from the wife of

714
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:23,480
this couple, the wife side.
And she was like, you have to

715
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:24,680
come over, you have to come
over.

716
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:26,360
You know, I'm just going to make
up a name.

717
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:30,400
Jacob is dead.
So they rushed to the woman's

718
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:34,960
house and my dad said that he
felt like he should pray over

719
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:37,600
this.
This guy didn't Mormon lingo

720
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:40,880
give him a priesthood blessing,
but it's essentially praying

721
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:43,400
over somebody.
And so he did that.

722
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:47,120
And he said that within about 3
minutes of closing the prayer,

723
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:50,160
Jacob sat up and said, where's
my soup?

724
00:36:52,240 --> 00:36:55,080
Wow is.
That funny it?

725
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:57,720
Is funny and.
Whenever I think about like near

726
00:36:57,720 --> 00:37:00,280
death experiences or miracles,
things like that, it takes me

727
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:03,760
back to that story.
And you know, we could sit here

728
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:07,600
all day arguing what it was, how
it, how it happened or whatever.

729
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:10,640
But the point is that these
people survived.

730
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:13,320
Now, is it every day?
Does every single person

731
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:14,360
survive?
Absolutely not.

732
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:17,040
Of course not.
But it's these glimmers of hope.

733
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:20,360
I have a friend who has been
having a hard time.

734
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:25,320
So she decided in January, every
day to do glimmers, something

735
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:27,480
she sees.
Actually, I think it's all year

736
00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:29,960
she's going to do it now I think
about it, something she sees

737
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:33,760
that gives her a glimmer because
in darkness, we need just a

738
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:35,560
glimmer sometimes to move
forward.

739
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:40,240
And she's been noting the things
that she sees, everything from a

740
00:37:40,240 --> 00:37:44,440
beautiful sunrise to a deer in
the field to hearing about

741
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:47,880
things that are in, in many
definitions, miraculous.

742
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:50,920
And sometimes I think we just
need to focus on these glimmers.

743
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:53,880
At least I know I do.
If we can through this podcast

744
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:56,560
and some of the things that we
do in our our lives generally

745
00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:59,960
offer a glimmer than to me,
we've done what we get to do.

746
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:02,240
Thank you, I agree.
So thank you.

747
00:38:02,240 --> 00:38:03,200
We'll talk again.
Soon.

748
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:04,200
All right.
Thanks.

749
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:06,960
All right, if you've made it
this far, clearly you like a

750
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:08,600
little mayhem with your
medicine.

751
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:11,400
Or you just enjoy hearing us
ramble about weird medical

752
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:13,600
mysteries.
Either way, we'd love you for

753
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:15,800
it.
So hit that follow or subscribe

754
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:17,200
button wherever you're
listening.

755
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:19,360
And toss us a rating or review
while you're at it.

756
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:22,200
Helps other curious weirdos find
the show.

757
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:24,600
And we know there are a lot of
you out there.

758
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:27,480
Oh so many.
Come join the chaos.

759
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:30,640
Thanks for listening to
Medicine, Mystery, Mayhem, and

760
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:33,040
sometimes Murder.
Do you have an idea for an

761
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:35,840
episode of this podcast?
Just want to say hi?

762
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:39,200
You can get in touch with us at
Power M4 pod.

763
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:45,960
That's OURM
thenumberfourpod@gmail.com.

764
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:50,080
We read every e-mail, and
sometimes we even respond just

765
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:52,800
like real professionals.
Because we are.

766
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:57,720
Old friends with new twists and
lots of body bags.