Memories

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Welcome to M4 Medicine, mystery,
mayhem, and sometimes murder.

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I'm Andrea Marciano and RN with
35 years of experience across

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various fields.
From direct patient care in

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hospitals to home health,
geriatrics, and injury medicine,

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I face life, death, and
everything in between.

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And I'm Crystal Miller and RN
with 13 1/2 years of experience.

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My work spans home health,
Hospice, emergency care,

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geriatrics, and occupational
health.

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From the chaos of trauma based
quiet moments with patients,

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I've seen stories that defy
explanations.

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We've been friends for over 25
years and as nurses we've shared

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countless stories that have left
us and our families speechless.

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Now we're bringing those stories
and many more to you in

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medicine, mystery, mayhem, and
sometimes murder.

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Each week, we'll uncover cases
that challenge the boundaries of

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medicine, sharing the human
stories behind the science.

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From puzzling medical mysteries
to shocking real life crimes,

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we'll bring you stories that'll
leave you questioning everything

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you thought you knew while.
We're both experiencing nurses.

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We want to make it clear we're
not here to give medical advice.

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This podcast is about
storytelling, education and

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exploration, not diagnosing or
treating medical conditions.

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This is medicine, mystery,
mayhem and sometimes murder.

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Let's dive in.
Hey Crystal, how are you doing?

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I'm doing great.
How are you?

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I'm great, thank you.
Anything exciting going on in

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your life?
I don't know if it could be

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characterized as exciting, but
it was exciting for me.

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I it's late in the season, but
in here where I am in Oklahoma,

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the weather's still been up in
the 70s.

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So Torin has grows a garden
every year.

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And there were some straggler
Peppers in the garden that I

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decided to pick.
Torin's fine, just let them rot.

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So I decided to pick them and
then I had to think of something

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to make a round of the Peppers.
Sure, that's your dinner.

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Yeah, yeah, right.
And so they were Anaheim's

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poblanos and jalapenos for
reference.

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They weren't like bell Peppers
then.

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Then I also had to use what was
in my.

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I didn't have to, I guess, but I
didn't want to leave, so I had

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to use what was in my house.
So I ended up making really

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delicious chicken enchiladas.
They were so good that my 19

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year old and their friends were
like this hits whatever they say

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in Gen.
Z language.

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They were like this is fire.
This is like they were, they

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love them.
And the fun thing is for me,

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like if I told them what was in
it, they might be like, because

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for example, I had some green
salsa, salsa Verde I had made

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from the same batcher plants
that I, you know, earlier in the

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year.
And so I had been planning to

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use that salsa Verde as the
topping, you know, before I put

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the cheese on the moisture
topping, I kind of think of it

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as.
And when I pulled it out of the

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fridge, it was moldy.
And so I had to super improvise

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because now I had all the
enchiladas rolled and in the pan

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and I was like, what am I going
to do here?

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And my friends, listeners will
have to forgive me because I

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really improvised.
And I know this is not authentic

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in any way, shape or form, but
what I ended up doing is

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thinning out some cream of
mushroom soup with some V8.

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And it was perfect.
So just so you know, I actually

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poured the mushroom soup out
into a different bowl and then

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put a little V8 in the can and
swirled it and drank it to make

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sure it wouldn't like clash
horribly before I put on my

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enchiladas, right?
That would have been a huge

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waste.
And I was like, I was

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pleasantly, I mean, I was
spitballing here, right?

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Like just like I didn't have any
salsa either.

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So like, what do I do?
And so I had this one can of V8

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left.
Let's see if it tastes good

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together.
And it was, it was great.

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It made a perfect topping.
Never would have crossed my mind

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to use mushroom soup.
Cream of mushroom soup.

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Partially because I don't have
any.

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I if I if I don't.
Even know, I don't even know why

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I have any.
I'll be totally honest with you.

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There's some in my pantry.
I don't know how it got there.

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That's hilarious.
Yeah, if I do cream of mushroom,

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I usually make it so I just
don't like all the additives

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that the cans have.
But sometimes there's a value of

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having a can sodium.
Content so high it's like 87% of

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your daily sodium in one.
It's insane.

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It's insane.
Yeah.

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Well, remember years ago when we
did that essentially chopped

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challenge at your house?
I was just talking a.

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Few times actually.
I went one time, I think maybe

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twice.
I can't remember now, but I

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remember it was great.
And I don't think I cooked.

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I think I just got to enjoy the
food, but I don't.

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I don't really remember, but I
just know that we did it.

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I went at least once.
I was talking to a friend of

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mine and he and his wife like to
cook.

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And so I said, hey, what if you
guys and Max and I do a chop

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challenge?
And he said, well, I think my

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wife would want to do it.
And I said, well, if they don't

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want to do it, they can get us
the ingredients and then we can

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do our thing.
And I said we can decide whether

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we want to cook together
separately, but it still would

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be a lot of fun.
So we thought it might be a fun

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date night.
Yeah, that'd be fun.

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See, I'm sure you remember we
had the, we have the two stoves

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with the two kitchens.
So we were able to one of the

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stoves or ranges, I don't had
two ovens also.

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And so we were able to get we
were able to make it so that

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three people could be cooking at
the same time and Holly picked

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the ingredients.
I don't know if you remember

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that I didn't know.
And so and then it was a

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surprise.
You know, it was unveiled right

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when we started.
Yeah, it was really fun.

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And every single time,
fortunately for us, every single

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time, all three dishes were
delicious.

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Just so well made and.
Just too creative.

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Yeah.
And I remember that because,

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like I said, I don't think I
remember cooking.

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I thought I was sort of a sous
chef running around helping

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people get the what they needed
or opening cans or chopping or.

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I don't remember.
I.

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Think you may have been?
Yeah.

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That's what I remember.
But you know, this is an

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interesting segue into what our
topic is today because what I

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remember and you, what you
remember may be different,

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right?
Yes, it may.

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Would you see how slick that
was?

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I think that was good.
So the topic today is about the

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mandala effect.
Have you heard of that?

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Have I ever?
Yes, Yes ma'am.

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It haunts my soul.
Haunts your soul.

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Excellent.
Well before we find out why it

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haunts your soul, let me tell
you my sources for today because

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I'm really quite interested in
your soul haunting.

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But one of my sources was
health.clevelandclinic.org and

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another one is social sciences
at the University of Chicago.

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It was a research study that
caused the consistency.

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What we misremember then
prevention article also talked

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to him about Mandela effect and
Psychology Today had a blog and

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it was funny because it said it
was for unserious psychology and

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it's the psychology behind the
Mandela Effect.

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I actually, I'm not sure if it's
Mandela or Mandela.

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It is Mandela.
I'm sorry.

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I was saying that right?
Yeah, I'm wrong because going

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back into why it's called that,
sorry, I had a little cramp

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there in my brain, but the
Mandela effect, right?

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And because I was thinking,
Mandela, that's the sand art.

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Yeah, that's sand art.
Listeners, I'm sorry, but I just

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remembered, and this is
hilarious because me having a

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memory cramp on a show about a
memory is really quite

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hilarious.
Apropos So apropos.

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So what do you want to talk
about?

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Wyatt Honster sold now?
Or do you want to talk about the

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definition?
We can talk about the definition

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just so that we got context for
our listeners if they haven't

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heard of it.
And sometimes we actually do

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have context for our listeners
in our podcast, don't we?

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Sometimes when we remember.
Right, it's not always not

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always the case.
Well, the Mandela Effect is

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something that's a considered a
phenomenon that participants.

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I'm, I'm just going to quote
this because it's a little

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easier than me trying to
paraphrase, but it's phenomenon

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in which participants
collectively misremember the

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specific details of person,
place, situation or event as if

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it were reality when in fact it
was not.

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The Mandela Effect is often a
group sort of thing.

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It's not always an individual
person, but it can be translated

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into individual experiences like
we have talked about on this

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podcast and just in life
general, generally, how we can

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we have all of our family
members in the same event and

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everyone remembering it slightly
differently because of whether

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we're seeing it through our own
perspective, whether we're in a

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different place in a room or
something like that.

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It's really interesting to me,
at least in the family setting

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to go over memories and go what?
No.

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And I remember in a recent
podcast recording, I don't think

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we've released this one yet, but
you were talking about how you

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remembered something completely
differently, and also you

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remembered being in an
experience that you weren't even

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at.
Exactly.

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Is that the?
One that haunts your soul.

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No, that's not the one that
haunts.

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That one's funny to me because I
believe Holly on the integrity

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front.
But man, I swear to God I saw

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that.
Isn't that hilarious?

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And to be so convinced that you
were in a place.

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So listeners, we haven't
released a podcast episode that

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has that, but it is coming out
soon.

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So keep an ear out for the
memory that Crystal had that was

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slightly different for what may
have been considered reality.

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But don't we all from time to
time?

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Well, one of the things that's
interesting is that a

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neuropsychologist whose name was
here.

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Can I take you back?
Why is it called the Mandela

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Effect?
I will tell you.

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I said Mandela.
Yes, Mandela.

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Why is it?
Called the Mandela Effect.

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And I'll tell you, and This is
why it's called what it is.

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But I'll go a little bit, a
little bit of history where they

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say why they think it happens.
And then we'll see why it's

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called what it was because it is
an interesting name, because

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everyone may have heard the name
Mandela.

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I hope so.
Hope so, right?

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Anyway, let me just backtrack
for just a second.

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The neuropsychologist Aaron
Bonner Jackson said the Mandela

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Effect happens because of her
brain's ability to create and

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store false memory.
And sometimes this is me

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paraphrasing as well.
Sometimes we will have a memory

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that starts out one way, but
then when we hear input from

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other people, we may shift it or
as time goes on, we may shift it

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to fit what is our our air quote
reality.

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Bonner Jackson said that some
popular examples of the Mandela

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effect will just blow your mind
and they will when I went

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through the examples, when I
tell them to you, you will just

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go, Oh my gosh, I cannot believe
I remember that incorrectly.

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And it's just our whole society
and I listen to because of I'm a

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certain age, I listen to a
person of I don't know how to

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call it what it's a Facebook and
Internet person of influencer.

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I think is that what's called
the people who OK, see, I'm

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really up to date here anyway.
I listen to an influencer called

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Slim Sherry, and she is, she's
almost as old as I am, but not

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quite.
And she talks about the things

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with the Mandela Effect and how
we have whole generations of

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people who remember things a
certain way, and it's just

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completely wrong.
At any rate, it is a social

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phenomenon.
Phenomenon.

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You always have to correct me on
that word, but it's when a group

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of people, like I said
incorrectly, remember very

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specific details, not even a
general thing about it, but very

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specific details as if it were
reality.

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And the phrase was coined by a
paranormal researcher, Fiona

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Broom.
The reason it came up is in

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2009, she had a clear memory of
former South African President

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Nelson Mandela dying while in
prison in the 1980s.

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Do you remember that?
I don't remember him dying in

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the 1980s, No, but I remember.
That's why it's called the

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Mandela Effect.
Because he died in prison,

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right?
Well, but he didn't.

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Exactly.
I almost got her, but apparently

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00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:03,880
she's read ahead.
But The thing is, is he did not

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die in prison as Crystal has
indicated and some people know,

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but he served a 27 year prison
sentence as and was released in

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1990.
And then after that is when he

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00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:19,360
served as president of South
Africa from 1994 to 1999.

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And then he died in 2013.
Yeah.

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00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:25,440
And what's interesting about
specifically Nelson Mandela

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00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:28,160
dying is that they remember the
funeral this session.

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I mean, they remember, like you
said, details.

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They're like what?
Right.

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00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:36,840
And what's interesting is, you
know, just this person, Broom

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00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:41,000
misremembering it is one thing,
but she was not the only person

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who remembered that.
Like you said, people with vivid

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recollections of Mandela's death
in the 80s.

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00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:49,040
And many people remembered
Mandela's death incorrectly and

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00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:51,240
believed he died many years
before his actual death.

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And actually, when I realized
that he died in 2013, that

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surprised me.
I thought he'd been dead a long

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00:12:56,680 --> 00:12:58,800
time before that.
This is one of the reasons they

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00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:01,280
called it that because it was
one of the first things that

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00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:04,240
they discovered that had a group
misremembering.

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00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:06,720
So they decided to call the
Mandela Effect.

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It's crazy to think of that and
some of the other ways that we

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00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:13,080
interpret or misinterpret
memories.

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One of the things I was reading
in some of the research I had

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00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:20,560
was that nearly a century ago, a
person named Bartlett in 1932

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00:13:20,680 --> 00:13:23,680
demonstrated that a person's
memory was not like a video like

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00:13:23,680 --> 00:13:25,840
a lot of us think, or an audio
recording.

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00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:28,200
We think it's sort of got a tape
in there.

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00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:32,000
We look at it, we know what it
is and it is set right.

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And then we can recall, we,
meaning you, not me, can recall

267
00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:39,320
it perfectly, right?
You can just recall it perfectly

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00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:42,480
because it was recorded in the
brain videotape.

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00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:46,520
Yes, and it's incorrect for both
of us, you more than I, because

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00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:50,720
of the A Fantasia.
And actually we had talked when

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00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:55,520
I had a client that I worked
with separately who had realized

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00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:58,600
that she has a Fantasia too.
Which listeners, if you haven't

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listened to our A Fantasia
episode, I invite you to do so.

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It's fascinating and what it
boils down is that a person does

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not have a mind's eye, and
crystal is one of those people.

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00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:09,920
Meaning, go ahead and you can
say what it means to you instead

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00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:11,560
of me paraphrasing you.
That's OK.

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00:14:11,560 --> 00:14:15,440
No, it just means that I don't
that my, my mind is black.

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I don't see anything.
Like if you say think of an

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00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:21,120
apple, I don't see an apple in
my brain or in my mind.

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00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:25,040
I just see the I don't even see
anything.

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00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:28,920
I know the concept of an apple.
So like I know that it's round

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00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:32,840
and as an indentation on the top
and it can be red or green or

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00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:36,160
red and screen and that it can
be plucked from a tree.

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00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:39,440
I'm like that sort of thing.
But my mind is black.

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00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:43,120
There's nothing like pictures,
voices, nothing in my mind.

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00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:47,760
That in this case to me would
indicate that you may have more

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00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:49,640
of the Mandela Effect than most
of us do.

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00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:52,640
Like you said, just turning on
that video doesn't happen.

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00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:57,840
But in the general situation, it
is a video and and actually or

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00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:00,200
an audio recording that we can
see or hear.

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00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:04,000
And I'm hoping one day we'll
have my client interviewed and

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00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:07,400
talking about a Fantasia.
I haven't created that yet or

294
00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:10,360
even talked to you about what
you want to, but I'd like to do

295
00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:12,040
it.
At any rate, we'll move on with

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00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:14,480
this.
The idea is, is that most of us

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00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:17,720
in our memories may not remember
every single solitary detail

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00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:20,880
when this testing, when Bartlett
does this testing, he said we

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00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:24,640
don't remember all the details,
but we have to remember the gist

300
00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:27,160
of it.
So I'll have a memory and I'm

301
00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:32,640
like, gosh, I remember something
about a story about my life, but

302
00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:34,280
I don't Remember Remember all
the details.

303
00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:40,240
And what Bartlett discovered is
that he was hearing a Native

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00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:44,840
American folk tale about ghosts,
and he heard it from a lot of

305
00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:48,520
different people, but it seemed
like nobody recalled all of its

306
00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:51,720
details.
And he had participants read

307
00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:56,040
this folk tale to ask them to
recall it with as many details

308
00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:58,640
as possible.
And sometimes he had a delay of

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00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:02,120
several minutes and others it
was after several years.

310
00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:06,400
That's interesting to me that he
waited for a long time.

311
00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:10,200
And so over time he had these
people recall their details,

312
00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:14,160
found that people tended to
admit, omit or change many of

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00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:17,640
the stories details.
They did it, it seems, in a way

314
00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:19,440
that seemed to make more sense
to them.

315
00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:22,840
So if a story wasn't making
sense to them, they would have

316
00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:27,000
put their own little details in.
Sometimes I think of it in this

317
00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:29,080
example.
I think of it as, you know, the

318
00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:34,120
new mnemonic, little songs and
sayings that people used to

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00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:37,480
have, memory cues.
We had that.

320
00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:40,200
I know a lot of the people in
nursing school use those.

321
00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:44,480
But my memory is such that I had
a harder time remembering the

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00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:48,600
mnemonic that I did the actual
fact, because I didn't have, I

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00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:50,680
felt like I didn't have room in
my brain for all the other

324
00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:52,160
stuff.
I'm just like, I need to know.

325
00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:56,200
XY and Z don't bug me with any
of the details, but some people

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00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:58,920
will do better with the
mnemonics to give their brain a

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00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:01,880
little trigger.
In this study, he just said that

328
00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:04,200
they would.
He didn't give details about

329
00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:08,040
what exactly the folk tale was
and what they left out or

330
00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:09,760
anything.
Just the bottom line was that

331
00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:12,119
they did it to make more sense
to themselves.

332
00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:15,920
So I picture this as maybe
somebody lives like you in

333
00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:21,200
Oklahoma and you think about a
detail that might mean something

334
00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:24,920
to you.
And I would think of a detail

335
00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:27,480
that might be different to me in
the Pacific Northwest, like

336
00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:30,040
here.
I might, I might see the people

337
00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:33,880
in this folk tale in kayaks
because we have water everywhere

338
00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:37,120
and you may not because you have
a dryer more.

339
00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:39,280
I see them on horses, right?
There you go.

340
00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:41,760
Sure, whatever fits for you.
So I thought that was really

341
00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:44,800
interesting.
And then another person, in

342
00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:49,560
1974, a person named Elizabeth
Loftus did a study with someone

343
00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:51,880
named Palmer.
They confirmed also that our

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00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:54,720
memories are more malleable,
especially when it comes to

345
00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:57,520
small details.
Loftus had participants watch a

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00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:01,720
video of the same car accident
and then asked whether there was

347
00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:04,440
broken glass in the video when
she asked that.

348
00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:08,280
Before the question was asked
about the broken glass, some of

349
00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:11,440
the participants were asked
about how fast were the cars

350
00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:12,960
going when they smashed into
each other.

351
00:18:13,360 --> 00:18:15,920
Other participants were asked
about how fast the cars were

352
00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:19,080
going when they hit each other
or not asked at all about the

353
00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:22,640
speed.
And then with the two groups,

354
00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:25,920
those asked about the cars
having smashed were more likely

355
00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:28,640
to report seeing broken glass in
the video of the accident,

356
00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:31,560
despite the fact that there was
no broken glass.

357
00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:35,480
So think about this, they asked,
how fast were they going when

358
00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:38,640
they smashed?
So when people thought about

359
00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:42,160
smashed, they did.
What many people do is

360
00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:45,360
envisioned the crash, which
would include broken windows,

361
00:18:45,360 --> 00:18:48,520
broken doors, squish things.
But if they were just talking

362
00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:52,280
about hitting each other, just
those words would lead someone

363
00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:56,680
to having a different vision or
a memory in their mind.

364
00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:00,000
And what's interesting to me is
as I was thinking about this and

365
00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:03,120
reading this information, I
wondered if you were asked the

366
00:19:03,120 --> 00:19:05,040
same thing.
If you saw a video and then

367
00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:08,400
asked the same thing because you
have a Fantasia, would your

368
00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:10,960
memory have been different?
Would the words have mattered?

369
00:19:11,360 --> 00:19:14,960
Or would you have remembered the
exact details because you only

370
00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:18,040
saw it in the video?
You didn't see it re enacted in

371
00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:20,640
your mind?
Do you have any idea about that?

372
00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:21,880
Yeah.
I don't know.

373
00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:26,520
I do know that I, I tend to get
hung up on details like Holly

374
00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:29,640
will tell a story and I'm like,
no, no, it was not the Pale

375
00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:31,040
Horse.
It was Whiskey St.

376
00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:36,160
No, it was maybe.
Yeah, that's interesting.

377
00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:39,560
I maybe we can do a study like
many of the studies will talk

378
00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:41,840
about it now and never do it,
but we do think about it.

379
00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:45,160
That's right.
I like it, but I just think it's

380
00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:50,120
just so intriguing that even
just the words we talked about

381
00:19:50,120 --> 00:19:53,040
with, whether we go over in our
minds or were asked about it, we

382
00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:56,160
talked about it to ourselves or
something, how these things may

383
00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:58,000
even show up differently in our
memory.

384
00:19:58,120 --> 00:20:01,760
And of course, as you go further
and further away from the

385
00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:04,880
memory, it gets easier and
easier to have misremembered

386
00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:07,520
things all together.
So those who experienced the

387
00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:12,560
Mandela Effect may do so as a
result of plain false memories.

388
00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:15,120
They just remembered it wrong
right from the get go.

389
00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:18,760
However, what they noticed is
that external stimuli like

390
00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:24,400
observations and experiences may
shift the memory more quickly or

391
00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:26,480
more slowly for different
people.

392
00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:30,320
And then you've also got people
that have just memory issues, or

393
00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:33,560
maybe some of the people that
they talked to later had had

394
00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:37,280
some sort of brain injury or a
stroke or dementia or something

395
00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:40,200
like that.
But what is interesting is that

396
00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:43,200
the observations, experiences,
our process in our brain as we

397
00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:47,240
know, and the memory in order
for it to be stored, your

398
00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:50,200
hippocampus in your brain is
involved in forming your

399
00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:52,120
memories.
And so if we talk about

400
00:20:52,120 --> 00:20:55,800
something like a brain injury
and the hippocampus is injured,

401
00:20:56,160 --> 00:21:00,400
then that could even to make
more of a, a delay or a problem

402
00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:03,360
or just no memory at all given
certain things.

403
00:21:03,360 --> 00:21:04,920
And you know, there's some
people I know you've probably

404
00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:07,800
worked with, as I have that have
had brain injuries and their

405
00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:11,920
short term memory, which is that
new memory focus is gone or at

406
00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:13,960
least really limited for most
people.

407
00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:17,120
If there's not an injury or
problem like that, these

408
00:21:17,120 --> 00:21:20,200
memories are stored and then we
can retrieve them when we start

409
00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:22,800
to think about it or we want to.
Or maybe something triggers

410
00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:26,280
memory and there's different
things.

411
00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:29,120
I'm sure you've noticed that
different things might trigger

412
00:21:29,120 --> 00:21:34,160
memory and a smell, or a feel or
a sound. 100% One of the things

413
00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:37,640
that happens to me all the time
is I listen to podcasts while I

414
00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:40,960
play video games and I'll be
going into a certain area of a

415
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:46,000
video game and immediately I,
I'm reminded of like, oh, this

416
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:49,800
is, this was when they found out
that Mark did it or whatever,

417
00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:52,160
right?
And I, that kind of thing

418
00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:53,960
happens to me all the time
because there's sometimes when

419
00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:56,920
I'm playing video games that I
can't be listening to a podcast.

420
00:21:56,920 --> 00:21:58,920
So I'm like in a meeting or
something.

421
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:03,360
So it, it happens all the time.
It's visceral, honestly.

422
00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:04,880
Right.
That's wild.

423
00:22:05,120 --> 00:22:07,480
Just the whole memory situation
is really odd.

424
00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:10,840
Maybe to me.
I'm not sure how to qualify it.

425
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:13,720
Yeah, sure.
And one of the things that

426
00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:17,600
Doctor Bonner Jackson, who I
mentioned earlier, said said is

427
00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:20,640
memories, not necessarily a
carbon copy of reality.

428
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:24,200
Memory is influenced by
different biases, perceptions,

429
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:29,320
preconceptions and expectations.
I liked the idea of expectations

430
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:33,320
as being part of their
definition of how a memory

431
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:38,400
happens because I know that when
I am in a situation and I expect

432
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:41,800
one thing to happen and it
doesn't, there have been times

433
00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:45,080
that I might have remembered it
the way I wanted to do anyway,

434
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:50,440
you know, in history of my life.
Well, gosh, I remember myself

435
00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:55,320
being the hero in this story, or
I the villain or whatever, but I

436
00:22:55,360 --> 00:22:57,720
remember it one way and other
people remember it so

437
00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:01,640
differently.
As a twin, that's a thing too,

438
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:04,720
because we both have very
different memories of very

439
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:08,560
different times in their lives.
And to have that with, I don't

440
00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:10,640
know that there are two people
that could have more

441
00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:14,800
coincidental memories than twins
because our lives have been so

442
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:18,080
connected, at least until we
moved out of home, that we were

443
00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:21,000
in the same place at the same
time, a good part of our lives.

444
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:24,480
And to have different memories
that are so strong for both of

445
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:26,800
us is just really weird.
But would your?

446
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:28,320
Parents ever split you up in
school?

447
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:30,800
Like make you be in classes.
Yes.

448
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:33,160
And you know what's really
interesting, as I went to dinner

449
00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:36,560
last night, we did an event
where there are a few groups of

450
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:38,320
people that just decided to have
dinner.

451
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:43,680
And at this dinner there was one
set of identical twins, one

452
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:46,760
person of a fraternal twin set.
He was the only one there.

453
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:50,320
And then myself as another
identical twin and Max.

454
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:54,760
So there were four, wait, 1234
of us five.

455
00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:57,520
Well, they're 5 total.
Four of us were a twin.

456
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:00,480
That's crazy.
I mean, the odds of that, we

457
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:03,680
were talking about how, how the
odds could be have to be

458
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:06,320
astronomical for for that to
have happened.

459
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:10,280
Three sets of twins represented
at one of five people.

460
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:15,960
And we were talking about how
the gentleman that was there,

461
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:19,400
they had gone to school.
He and his, his fraternal twin

462
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:22,840
had gone to school together, all
of their education except for

463
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:24,400
three or four months in 4th
grade.

464
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:28,120
And apparently his brother did
not do well when they were

465
00:24:28,120 --> 00:24:31,800
separated.
However, my girlfriend and her

466
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:37,000
sister were like myself and my
sister, where we were separated

467
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:41,000
because we kept cheating and we
didn't do it because we we were

468
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:42,960
being nefarious.
We just did it because we'd

469
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:45,160
always shared everything.
And that's the way they were.

470
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:47,760
They'd always shared everything.
So why aren't we sharing our

471
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:49,920
answers?
I mean, because it was when we

472
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:52,080
were in kindergarten, first
grade, 2nd grade maybe.

473
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:54,920
And then they realized they had
to separate us because we

474
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:57,760
weren't thinking on our own.
We were thinking together, as we

475
00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:00,040
had done up to that point for
our lives.

476
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:04,480
I had to separate Kira and Kenny
because Kira was just doing

477
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:06,320
everything for Kenny, not even
like homework and stuff.

478
00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:08,720
She would speak for Kenny.
She would, you know, she would

479
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:10,360
tell Kenny what to do.
She would.

480
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:15,360
It was like Kenny was not
flourishing and Kenny was pissed

481
00:25:15,360 --> 00:25:17,800
when I split them up, right,
Because she's such an introvert

482
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:21,320
and Kira's such an extrovert
that she felt like this was her,

483
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:23,880
her protective bubble type
thing.

484
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:25,480
You know, Kira's her, her
protector.

485
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:30,720
And I did it be so that they
would not be crutches for each

486
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:32,240
other.
Right.

487
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,640
And I think that's fairly common
with twins is that that

488
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:39,080
separation has to happen.
And so my friend and his brother

489
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:42,400
having been separated for kind
of the opposite reason that they

490
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:44,720
did not flourish, the one
brother didn't flourish

491
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:46,480
separately.
What's really funny though is

492
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:51,200
the one I know said I felt like
it was a punishment because I

493
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:54,480
had to be with my brother again.
And he said he felt like he had

494
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:58,240
gotten in trouble somehow
because he was enjoying being on

495
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:01,040
his own as a twin.
And I'm sure girls may have

496
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:04,400
mentioned this, but as a twin,
we're often considered one unit.

497
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:08,920
Yeah, I was the twins, the
twins, the girls, the whatever.

498
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:13,320
And I know that for me, when we
did things on our own, I

499
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,040
preferred it because I wanted to
be my own person.

500
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:19,920
I didn't want to be a package,
and not that I don't love my

501
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:22,640
sister because I do know she
listens to this podcast and I

502
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:25,600
do, but I do.
Too.

503
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:28,640
I know her and love her too.
There you go.

504
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:32,320
And I just, I love how we say
that and like we do too.

505
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:35,280
Wacky voices.
But it's interesting just to

506
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:37,760
have that opportunity to grow
and to be separate.

507
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:41,840
One of the things that is an
example here is when we've had a

508
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,880
specific moment while on
vacation or with a friend and we

509
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:48,360
both remember different details.
So I was thinking about a detail

510
00:26:48,360 --> 00:26:50,080
that you and I have.
You and I have had.

511
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:53,400
So one of the things that we
have done in history is wrap

512
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:54,800
Christmas presents together,
right?

513
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:59,160
And I actually still miss that.
You probably don't do it anymore

514
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:01,160
either.
I have since the kids are all

515
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:04,600
older and the grandkids are.
We do secrets Santa, one gift

516
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,600
each.
Yeah, well, we all do a

517
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:10,400
different I.
Know.

518
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:11,160
All my.
Gifts are felt.

519
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,040
Did I tell you, by the way, that
Cedar graduated from high

520
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:15,160
school?
No.

521
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:17,800
Awesome.
Yeah, so all of my kids are now

522
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:19,680
graduating from high school.
I'm done with high school.

523
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:22,840
I'm done with in school.
It's not crazy.

524
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:25,200
I'm always crazy.
I mean, you're older.

525
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:29,120
But hey, now we didn't have to
talk about me being older

526
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,720
anyway.
Anyway, sorry to get back to the

527
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:33,560
time.
Memories.

528
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,760
Well we used to.
We used to wrap Christmas

529
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:39,040
presents and I know we used to
stay up at least half the night,

530
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:40,640
if not the whole night some of
the times.

531
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:44,280
And I would think that if you
and I had been asked separately

532
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,120
by people what happened, when
did it start?

533
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:50,320
How many presents did you do?
Did you drink hot chocolate or

534
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:52,800
did you have candy or whatever
while you were doing it?

535
00:27:53,120 --> 00:27:55,040
We would probably have different
memories.

536
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:59,280
Oh, probably.
And I remember one year, so

537
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:03,200
listeners, we used to have our
Christmas together with our

538
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:08,120
combined kids and I would be at
my house.

539
00:28:08,120 --> 00:28:11,800
Sometimes I stayed overnight.
But when I lived close enough,

540
00:28:12,120 --> 00:28:16,840
when we were both in the Orem
area, I would go home and you

541
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:18,840
said I'll call you when
everybody's awake.

542
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,440
Do you remember there were at
least two times I was waiting in

543
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:23,680
your driveway because I couldn't
wait anymore.

544
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:25,440
I do.
Remember, I didn't.

545
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:27,200
I didn't see this is what what
it's like.

546
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:29,160
I didn't remember that, but now
that gave me chills.

547
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:33,360
I totally remember.
I remember with vivid detail and

548
00:28:33,360 --> 00:28:36,320
I'm like, OK, coming in and
because I was in the driveway,

549
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:39,480
because of all of us, I had the
least amount of patients

550
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:41,440
apparently.
And there were times I wanted to

551
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:43,920
come in and wake up y'all,
because I was ready.

552
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:47,240
But it didn't happen and isn't
that funny?

553
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:49,280
That's just one of those
memories, and I'm sure you'll

554
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:52,840
remember differently about it.
I don't even, I don't remember

555
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:54,720
if we did things like eat snacks
or whatever.

556
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:57,520
I just remember we played music.
We sat on the floor back in the

557
00:28:57,520 --> 00:28:58,960
day when we could do that
easily.

558
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:02,600
You did most of the wrapping
because I suck at it.

559
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:05,200
Well, I didn't want to bring
that up, but yes.

560
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:08,320
And it was just super fun.
And I remember those memories

561
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:10,880
fondly.
But if you ask me for details

562
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,880
beyond doing what we just said
and me being in the driveway

563
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:15,840
sometimes, I don't remember
specific details.

564
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:18,120
I couldn't tell you a single
solitary thing we ever wrapped

565
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:20,680
up, could you?
Oh yeah, no way, No way.

566
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:23,320
I just remember doing it
together and enjoying it and

567
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:25,520
missing it when I think about it
going Oh yeah.

568
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,720
So anyway, that's one of those
things that we will, even though

569
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:32,280
we were at the same event, same
thing, we will have different

570
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:34,480
memories, things that were
impactful to us.

571
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:37,880
And that's super important when
our own perceptions and

572
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:41,120
attention to whatever detail was
important to us is what we

573
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:44,080
remember the most.
I had an interesting experience

574
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:45,680
going to my college.
College.

575
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:47,680
Nope.
Going to my high school reunion?

576
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:50,680
Gosh, I think it was a year and
a half ago now, but yeah, it

577
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,880
was.
But we were all, you know, my

578
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:56,120
class, we were all sitting
around and a few of us were

579
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:59,280
talking about our memories and
we kept having this like

580
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:02,960
somebody would say, do you
remember there?

581
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:04,920
Oh gosh, I can't remember what
it's called.

582
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:06,880
But you know, do you remember
that punishment they gave us?

583
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:09,560
We'd all be like, oh, I totally
forgot about that.

584
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:11,400
Do you remember that time this
teacher did that?

585
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:13,560
And every, you know, I totally
forgot about that.

586
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:18,280
But it was so fun to have these
to join our memories together to

587
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:21,120
kind of get a better whole
picture memory together.

588
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:23,960
It was really, it was really
interesting, especially to see,

589
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:26,840
like you said, what kinds of
things seem to be important to

590
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:30,800
people that they remembered it.
Yeah, exactly.

591
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:35,600
And what would be really quite a
thing is to find out if any of

592
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:38,160
you remembered it right at all.
Yeah, no kidding.

593
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:40,560
No kidding.
Because I'm against that.

594
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:44,400
Whatever you remembered is sort
of partially true all together.

595
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,000
I mean, maybe all together you
got more of a memory, but I

596
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:48,760
would suspect that some of it
was still wrong.

597
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:51,520
And that's what what is.
The next thing I was going to

598
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:54,280
say is sometimes the false
memories can occur when

599
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,080
misleading information is
provided.

600
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:59,520
So in that example that you're
giving, what if Joe says, I

601
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:01,840
don't know if there's a Joe, but
what if Joe said, Oh my gosh.

602
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:05,760
And remember that that Missus
Smith was wearing a Red Hat.

603
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:07,640
She always wore a Red Hat.
Oh, yeah.

604
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:10,560
You know, and you may remember
it even though Missus Smith may

605
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,480
or may not have ever had a hat
at all and not even a Red Hat.

606
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:17,720
And and that's what's wild is
you, if someone can say it with

607
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:22,880
enough information, air quotes,
then you might air quotes,

608
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:25,600
remember it even though it
wasn't a thing.

609
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:29,400
This can be the studies show
that this may happen.

610
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:32,880
This misleading information
providing a false memory can

611
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:36,160
happen because of your own
imagination and the way you

612
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:39,280
might receive false feedback.
Because I know that there's

613
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:42,200
times my mom used to say if you
say something with enough

614
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:43,600
authority, people will believe
you.

615
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:48,720
And if I say Missus Smith had a
Red Hat and I say it without any

616
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:52,320
compromise or, or hesitation or
anything like that, everyone,

617
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:57,240
someone might really believe it.
And some people are more easily

618
00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:00,240
influenced with this sort of
thing than others.

619
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:02,120
And this may be true in their
general lives.

620
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:06,160
They just maybe they want to
their people pleaser or they

621
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:09,120
just don't have really, maybe
they're a little wishy washy or

622
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:12,320
something like that.
And so they're more easily led.

623
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:16,320
And that's called, if I do
something like that, that's

624
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:19,880
called memory implantation.
So I've basically implanted my

625
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:24,600
memory or my thought into your
memory, and now it becomes part

626
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:27,200
of your memory even though it
had nothing to do with anything.

627
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,920
Does that make sense?
And I bet we could both think of

628
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:33,120
times in our lives that that may
have happened.

629
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:35,800
Yeah, sure.
Sometimes people giving the

630
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:39,880
misleading information may
actually make another person

631
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:43,080
believe that that memory is
different than what actually

632
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:44,120
happened.
Like I said.

633
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:47,800
And Doctor Bonner Jackson had
done that with people.

634
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:51,880
They had inserted those memories
and people.

635
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:53,640
Oh, yeah, totally.
I remember that.

636
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:57,720
And, and I would guess, I don't
think they said anything about

637
00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:00,640
the information I read, but I
would guess that if Doctor

638
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:03,600
Bonner Jackson had this, hard to
say the whole name every time,

639
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:08,200
but it's a Bonner hyphen
Jackson, if after a while he

640
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:11,400
said that they had them do the
do the reading and then asked at

641
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:14,800
different intervals of time.
After a while, I feel like it

642
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:19,000
may be like the telephone game
where all of a sudden the memory

643
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:22,920
is completely different from
what it started at or so

644
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:27,120
different that it cannot even be
identified as the original

645
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,360
memory.
Doctor Bonner Jackson said, and

646
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,320
this is a quote, I think most
dramatically, this happens in

647
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:36,320
some court cases when if someone
has asked a question in a

648
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:38,720
certain way, it may actually
lead them to think they

649
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:41,320
remembered something they didn't
actually remember.

650
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:44,400
And something that has been
happening more and more is these

651
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:48,200
eyewitness testimonies are just
not even counted for anything

652
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:51,120
because they can be so
incorrect.

653
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:57,280
What one person may have seen in
reality and may have remembered

654
00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:01,520
correctly, like Doctor Bonner
Jackson said, if someone asked

655
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:04,480
them in court, or more
specifically, an attorney

656
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:08,840
probably asked in a way.
Well, now, you do remember that

657
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:10,960
that person had a white coat on,
right?

658
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:14,920
Oh, well, yeah.
And then And they may even

659
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:18,560
remember other details was like,
oh, and shiny red buttons or

660
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:21,639
whatever.
And that detail may be correct,

661
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:25,639
but maybe the white code isn't.
And pretty soon you've got

662
00:34:25,639 --> 00:34:27,360
something that's totally
inaccurate.

663
00:34:27,679 --> 00:34:30,480
And there have been a lot of
times where they found that

664
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:35,120
false identification of a person
is completely incorrect.

665
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:39,679
And even in a lineup, when you
have 567, however many people

666
00:34:39,679 --> 00:34:43,800
are in a lineup because in line
up, in a police line up, they'll

667
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:47,960
get people that look as closely
identical as one another.

668
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:49,159
So.
They won't.

669
00:34:49,159 --> 00:34:50,280
Yeah.
You're not going to get one

670
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:53,159
redheaded person and then a
bunch of black dudes, right?

671
00:34:53,159 --> 00:34:55,600
Like.
Right like I wonder when was it

672
00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:02,440
exactly because that's obvious.
But if you have 6 people that

673
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:08,040
are say I don't know, redheaded
Irish people and redhead pale

674
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:12,200
skin and they all look similar,
it's really easy to fill in the

675
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:15,360
blanks with the wrong thing.
And that's one of the things

676
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:17,840
that they found is that our
memory is reconstructive.

677
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:21,280
We will brains.
Don't like blank?

678
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,440
Yeah.
And we'll fill them in and

679
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:28,480
they'll do it from our own
internal biases or from some

680
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:32,240
other input.
And then we fill that space in,

681
00:35:32,240 --> 00:35:34,080
like you said, our brain doesn't
like the gaps.

682
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:38,600
And we'll fill it in with false
things and then we'll have

683
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:40,600
trouble remembering the specific
details.

684
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:45,160
In one study that examples how
we create false memories, people

685
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:49,800
were provided a list of related
words and then tasked to recall

686
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:52,400
them.
In one list, for example, they

687
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:57,040
said the words bed, rest, awake.
So all those words are

688
00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:00,120
associated with what?
Sleep, Correct, But it wasn't

689
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:02,840
listed.
Sleep wasn't listed despite not

690
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:06,400
being included 40% of the time.
People that remember the word

691
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:07,800
sleep being on the list.
Wow.

692
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:12,760
So those words triggered the
word sleep like it did for you.

693
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:16,640
And so they remembered that
being part of it and they may

694
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:19,520
have even been asked.
So list the words I said.

695
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:23,960
OK, bed, rest, awake, sleep.
OK, List the three words I said,

696
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:27,480
bed, sleep, you know, whatever.
However they put those together.

697
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:31,040
But 40% of the time the word
sleep was being listed as being

698
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:33,120
unlisted had never been said by
anyone.

699
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:36,360
Which is wild, isn't?
It Yeah, it is.

700
00:36:36,720 --> 00:36:38,840
And I can see the leap because
that's that gap.

701
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:42,200
It's like, oh, those things.
And maybe the word sleep is part

702
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:44,480
of what helps us actually
remember it.

703
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:47,280
Maybe it's considered an anchor
word or something for us.

704
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:49,480
And this is just Andrea's
theory.

705
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:51,920
I don't know.
But that's what struck me as

706
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:55,600
that might be how we categorize
it, because those words all have

707
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:58,120
something to do with sleep.
And more often than not in our

708
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:02,080
lives, we're not asked to list
words that we've been asked.

709
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:05,080
We we don't usually have to do
that.

710
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:08,400
And that's one of the things
when they test people for

711
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:11,720
dementia and they have to
remember word lists and things

712
00:37:11,720 --> 00:37:13,240
and then in 10 minutes remember
them all.

713
00:37:13,240 --> 00:37:14,720
I'm like, oh, I'm never going to
do it.

714
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:17,760
I can't.
I mean, I don't think I have

715
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:20,080
dementia, but by the time I
finish with an exam like that, I

716
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:21,600
probably would think I had
dementia.

717
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:24,040
But I guess if I think I have
it, I probably don't.

718
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:26,280
Isn't that they say that if you
think you're crazy or probably

719
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:27,400
not?
I don't know.

720
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:31,440
I don't know, who knows.
So if someone has information,

721
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:33,440
but they don't have all of it,
like we said, they may

722
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:36,560
misremember or reconstruct the
event or situation based on the

723
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:40,280
information they do have.
And they said they probably fill

724
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:42,480
it in to say, well, this is
probably what happened.

725
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:46,280
It is one of the ways we work to
make sense of the world around

726
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:49,360
us because like you said, those
gaps don't work for us.

727
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:53,600
We, we have to couch it or put
it somewhere in our little boxes

728
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:57,320
to be able to recall it later.
Or if you, we talk about file

729
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:00,000
drawers, there's the file drawer
for that one and it's the file

730
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:02,360
drawer of sleep.
Well, the sleep isn't in there,

731
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:04,400
but I'll probably put it there
sooner or later.

732
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:10,160
And, and then after a while, the
message either, or the memory

733
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:14,280
will get muddled or it'll just
go away altogether.

734
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:17,400
And like we said about the the
telephone game, it may end up

735
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:19,160
being completely the wrong
message.

736
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:23,160
And while we're, while we're
having these memories, this is

737
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:25,240
one of the ways I think that
people really just got upset

738
00:38:25,240 --> 00:38:29,040
with each other because all of a
sudden I'm remembering the wrong

739
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:33,440
image or message or memory.
And now I'm mad because why did

740
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:36,080
you do that to me?
You know, that year we wrapped

741
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:38,600
those presents and you ran out
of tape and you made me to go to

742
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:41,720
Walmart to get it right.
This probably actually happened

743
00:38:41,720 --> 00:38:43,920
one day, but but we probably
would together.

744
00:38:44,720 --> 00:38:48,280
But but so it just gets wrong
and and we can see how this can

745
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:52,360
be a problem, especially when we
look at the situation like in a

746
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:56,480
court, a court scenario where
just those things can be twisted

747
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:59,760
and the memories can be combined
and the ideas can change.

748
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:02,800
One of the things that they
mentioned with the Mandela

749
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:05,680
Effect is how fast information
spreads and social media.

750
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:12,200
And because of the speed of
messages, they can get more

751
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:15,280
easily twisted.
And if you look at a, a message

752
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:19,920
that sent out to, I don't know,
even 100 people and say, I'm at

753
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:22,200
work and I'm grumpy and I see
something, I'm like, what?

754
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:24,640
That's dumb.
And then I'll, I'll make a

755
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:27,280
comment and it'll shift just a
little bit or you'll say, Oh my

756
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:29,040
gosh, I really love that
message.

757
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:33,480
I'm going to put it out and when
enough people disseminate the

758
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:37,360
wrong information and then we
play off each other's collective

759
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:41,200
misremembering, so maybe my 20
closest friends will remember it

760
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:42,360
away.
I said it.

761
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:45,880
Your 20 closest friends were
another way and another way and

762
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:47,880
another way.
All of a sudden we've got

763
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:51,120
thousands of people remembering
different little things or

764
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:55,800
different bits.
So it's hard to know when that

765
00:39:55,800 --> 00:40:00,240
happens, whether information has
gotten lost, buried, or just

766
00:40:00,240 --> 00:40:03,800
completely shifted.
And this is where someone who

767
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:09,560
has some idea of doing something
nefarious might insert or embed

768
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:11,440
a memory like we talked about
earlier.

769
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:13,560
They'll say, Oh yeah, remember
when?

770
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:17,080
Oh, yeah.
And, and the whole generation of

771
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:18,800
these people did this and Oh my
goodness.

772
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:21,560
And this group did that.
And Oh my gosh, I can't believe

773
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:23,560
it.
And there may be some incentive

774
00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:26,360
possibilities in that, in our,
in our environment at the time

775
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:29,440
right now, in our, in our whole
world view, It could be

776
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:32,520
happening right now.
I mean, I say could leave it

777
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:37,000
there, but there are several
conditions that impact memory

778
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:40,400
growth and loss.
So can you think of any things

779
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:46,240
that you think might help make
memory better or improving brain

780
00:40:46,240 --> 00:40:50,280
function for memory?
I think that putting it to music

781
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:53,280
could help, I think.
That wait, say that, tell me

782
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:55,440
what you mean.
Putting it to music.

783
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:58,560
You want to remember something?
Put on a song you've never

784
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:01,280
listened to before.
Make that song part of the

785
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:04,520
memory.
I recommend one without words.

786
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:07,680
So that you can because I can.
Remember like, oh, at this

787
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:09,600
crescendo, I remember this
crescendo.

788
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:13,520
I want to say brain stem at this
allegro.

789
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:16,640
I want to say medulla obligata
or whatever.

790
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:20,080
Like you can for me that works.
I can, I can.

791
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:23,840
Like I was saying with the video
games, I can relate the moments

792
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:29,080
in the song to the moments of my
textbook or whatever it may be.

793
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:33,120
And then that becomes just a
constant reminder if I want it

794
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:34,840
to be.
Well, that's fascinating.

795
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:39,040
I know that one of my friends
has two grandchildren and one

796
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:41,840
has dyslexia and the other one
does not.

797
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:44,880
The one who does not has been
learning in her first grade

798
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:48,160
songs similar to what you're
saying that will tell something

799
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:51,720
about the I before E scenario.
And there's a little song phrase

800
00:41:51,720 --> 00:41:53,360
that goes with, I don't know
what they are because I haven't

801
00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:54,840
heard them.
But those little sort of

802
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:57,800
triggers that remind a person
how to say words or how to read

803
00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:02,640
letters and words together.
And he was, I think he's 7 or 8,

804
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:04,640
and his sister is in first or
second grade.

805
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:07,320
So at least a few years, three
years or so behind him, I

806
00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:09,840
believe.
And he said, why didn't I get

807
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:12,200
those songs?
Because his teachers never

808
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:14,680
taught him that.
And he said even though he's got

809
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:18,560
dyslexia, he feels like those
songs would have helped.

810
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:22,560
So his sister is now teaching
him those songs so that he will

811
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:26,720
know whatever the song is and
the words that help him

812
00:42:26,720 --> 00:42:29,480
pronounce words correctly.
And again, I don't know the

813
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:32,720
songs clearly I'm indicating
that, but those little triggers

814
00:42:32,720 --> 00:42:34,760
can be useful.
What's interesting to me is when

815
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:37,080
you said, well, the crescendo
and this and that, I'm like, I

816
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:38,440
don't even know what a crescendo
is.

817
00:42:38,720 --> 00:42:41,520
So that's not going to help me.
I guess that means when it goes

818
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:43,720
up since you put your hand up.
Yes, yes.

819
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:48,960
It's like crescendo is the
height of the drama of that

820
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:52,080
portion of the song.
And yeah, so that may work for

821
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:54,240
you.
And I wonder again, I mean, I

822
00:42:54,240 --> 00:42:56,360
look at some of these things
with you, with your A Fantasia.

823
00:42:56,640 --> 00:43:01,120
Does that help you because you
don't see it in other ways?

824
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:03,760
And does it not help me because
I may see it in another way?

825
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:06,920
Because there's a lot of things,
if I read something, I'll, I can

826
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:08,920
picture it in my mind.
I'm like, oh, yeah, that

827
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:11,920
sentence said exactly this.
And I may even be able to tell

828
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:14,000
you where it is in a book,
depending on the book, you know,

829
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:16,240
that kind of thing.
But then I think that maybe you

830
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:19,480
might be able to do that because
I think there's some level of,

831
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:21,360
we've talked about photographic
memory.

832
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:23,880
And I think Holly has a
photographic memory, doesn't

833
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:25,200
she?
I thought I remember one of your

834
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:29,360
sisters does.
No, but Zach has a an auto

835
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:33,760
didactic memory, which means
which means have you ever seen

836
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:38,040
it's the FBI profilers one?
Have you seen that one that had?

837
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:42,120
Oh my gosh, why can't I?
Think oh, is that Spencer guy?

838
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:45,280
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's isn't that his name?

839
00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:46,640
I know.
It is, yeah.

840
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:50,160
Basically once they see
something, they remember it or

841
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:51,840
or learn something, they
remember it.

842
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:55,960
So Zach for example, can read
something on how to do something

843
00:43:55,960 --> 00:44:00,440
on a video game and then where I
specifically let's say Minecraft

844
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:04,720
and there you can build these
multi part machines and then do

845
00:44:04,720 --> 00:44:07,800
all sorts of engineering type
stuff, engineering ish stuff.

846
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:11,120
And I have to have a reference
like every single time.

847
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:13,960
I'm even if I built the machine
4 times, I still have to have a

848
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:15,640
reference because I have no idea
what I'm doing.

849
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:18,280
He can build it once.
First of all, he reads how to

850
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:21,720
build it and then just builds it
and then build it from then on.

851
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:23,560
Yeah.
And then I like.

852
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:26,760
I just don't understand it.
Well, and maps and things like

853
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:30,000
that aren't directions are that
way for me where I can see it,

854
00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:33,720
but I have to see it 5000 times
and I may remember it.

855
00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:36,560
And my friend, we were talking
last night, my friend Megan

856
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:38,720
said, oh, I go somewhere once
and I'll remember how to get

857
00:44:38,720 --> 00:44:40,080
there forever.
I was just going to say that

858
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:41,800
that's how I am.
If I go somewhere once, I'll

859
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:43,040
remember how to get there
forever.

860
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:44,880
Not me ever.
Nope.

861
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:48,240
And, and it's not even because I
people have said, well, is it

862
00:44:48,240 --> 00:44:50,560
because you've had menopause or
chemo or whatever?

863
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:52,880
I said, no, this is not my whole
life.

864
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:57,760
These things don't help.
But I have always been

865
00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:01,080
geographically challenged, if
you will, and and so.

866
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:03,240
Go ahead.
I remember trying to teach

867
00:45:03,240 --> 00:45:07,000
Sienna how to use a map and
she's 29, she'll be 30 in

868
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:09,400
January.
And she just could not

869
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:13,040
understand the concept.
Like it just was way over her

870
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:15,200
head.
So my dad gave her a map, took

871
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:18,480
her out driving, made her
navigate using a map and like it

872
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:21,000
clicked.
But my point is just the brains,

873
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:22,560
we, our brains are also
different.

874
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:24,240
You know, their minds are also
different.

875
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:27,600
And they are.
And I can read a map, but I can

876
00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:29,600
read it.
I can go someplace and then go

877
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:32,360
there the next time.
And I can't do it again.

878
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:35,600
I just can't.
Imagine a map not making sense

879
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:38,080
in theory, even like cannot
relate.

880
00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:41,120
That's all I can say I.
And it's just so different.

881
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:45,240
I attempted to to explain the
grid pattern to my mother in

882
00:45:45,240 --> 00:45:49,720
Utah 5 or 6 times and she still
never caught on to it.

883
00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:52,560
And then all of a sudden she
said she was driving, said, Oh,

884
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:54,320
wait, I think I know what you
mean now.

885
00:45:54,720 --> 00:45:57,400
But it took years for her to get
it.

886
00:45:57,480 --> 00:45:59,920
And and so she's, you know,
directionally challenged as

887
00:45:59,920 --> 00:46:01,640
well, which is fine.
We all have workarounds.

888
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:05,160
And so you're talking about that
kind of memory.

889
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:07,480
Is there any other way you think
that you can improve the memory?

890
00:46:07,720 --> 00:46:11,480
Write it down.
If you have the ability and the

891
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:14,280
wherewithal, you could record it
as it's happening and then watch

892
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:15,720
it later there.
You go.

893
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:22,440
Share it immediately maybe.
That's something that helps me

894
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:24,960
if I'm trying to, especially if
I'm trying to learn something.

895
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:27,800
And they always say if you want
to learn something, figure it

896
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:29,200
out and then teach it to
somebody.

897
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:32,080
See was do one, teach one.
Right.

898
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:34,240
And then that way it sticks
better.

899
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:38,240
And some of the other things
that they have indicated in, in

900
00:46:38,240 --> 00:46:41,640
research has shown that things
that impact memory growth and

901
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:46,440
loss are having a healthy diet,
improving a sleep schedule

902
00:46:46,720 --> 00:46:49,600
because sleep is so huge.
I'm sure you've experienced

903
00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:51,560
times where you didn't get
enough sleep and your brain just

904
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:54,040
doesn't work.
And what when there falls right

905
00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:55,240
out?
I mean, there it is on the

906
00:46:55,240 --> 00:46:56,440
ground.
I know somebody told me

907
00:46:56,440 --> 00:46:58,920
something and I don't know.
And that's why a lot of times

908
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:03,200
when I do business meetings, I
will type my notes as I go

909
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:06,320
because then I can look back and
say, Oh yeah, we talked about

910
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:09,520
this and oh, this is my job,
this is what I get to do and

911
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:12,360
that kind of thing.
Because I will get distracted.

912
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:14,160
I won't remember.
And you know, somebody comes

913
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:16,280
back and a few weeks later
saying, did you do it?

914
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:19,160
I'm like, like what?
Give me a hint.

915
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:22,160
And and that's poor form,
especially if it's business

916
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:25,040
related.
My problem is I type notes and

917
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:26,880
then I go back and look at them
and I'm like.

918
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:30,560
I have no idea what any of this
means because I lead out the

919
00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:33,000
context.
Right, we've talked about that.

920
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:34,640
Or when you've written notes
down.

921
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:38,080
I type very quickly and
correctly, which is not like a

922
00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:39,680
flex.
It's just, it is what it is

923
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:41,200
because I've typed for a long
time.

924
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:43,400
Back in the day, children
remember.

925
00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:46,360
Like I think I said in the other
episode where he mentioned this

926
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:50,760
made this beacon did not teach
me to type well in.

927
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:54,280
Some people's lives there were
actually typewriters.

928
00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:56,200
I used a typewriter.
Yes.

929
00:47:56,280 --> 00:48:00,160
And I know some of our listeners
that are younger may say I what,

930
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:05,880
but some of us are ancient and
did use typewriters.

931
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:10,240
Anyway, the bottom line of this
is for Doctor Bonner Jackson is

932
00:48:10,240 --> 00:48:13,560
it's up to us determine what's
real and what's hearsay, which

933
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:16,760
is interesting too, because they
say related to false memories.

934
00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:21,040
It's up to us to know.
And I don't know sometimes us

935
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:26,480
how the the memories us or just
no, just us individuals, I

936
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:28,880
guess.
And I'm like, that seems hard

937
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:33,920
because how, how will I know?
And I guess now because we can

938
00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:36,800
Google or whatever, we can find
out.

939
00:48:37,240 --> 00:48:41,720
But if you're like us around my
house, we will ask our devices a

940
00:48:41,720 --> 00:48:44,200
question.
We'll get an answer and then

941
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:46,760
look at each other going, wait,
do you remember what they said?

942
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:50,240
And do it again and again
because we were talking last

943
00:48:50,240 --> 00:48:55,920
night about this as well, that
we have actually lost the air,

944
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:58,040
quote, responsibility, if you
will, to remember these things

945
00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:00,720
because we know we have devices
that can tell us any moment's

946
00:49:00,720 --> 00:49:03,200
notice.
So the things that may feel like

947
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:08,040
us to be unnecessary or extra,
we don't worry about because we

948
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:10,440
know we can ask the device.
And one of the people there was

949
00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:13,440
saying, yeah, I had a whole
thing of encyclopedias.

950
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:15,760
And it was so cool because I
could just open and look and

951
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:17,720
everything.
And people now, the young people

952
00:49:17,720 --> 00:49:20,560
now go out at what?
An encyclopedia.

953
00:49:21,240 --> 00:49:24,800
I think in a book, I just asked
all of my kids in our family

954
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:27,360
group chat if they knew what an
encyclopedia was.

955
00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:31,560
Turns out of course they did
because Glenna and Zach said

956
00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:35,960
that he read Glenna's entire
Glenna's their grandma and and

957
00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:38,320
Andrea's kids grandma.
Anyway, he said he read her

958
00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:41,840
entire collection out of boredom
because they're, you know,

959
00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:43,840
there's nothing to do when he
was visiting his dad.

960
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:47,400
Yeah, or, or it was ATV show or
something.

961
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:49,200
So yeah, I can see him wanting
to read them.

962
00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:53,240
But yeah.
And so then there was a paper

963
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:57,160
book that people could look at.
But what's funny about that is

964
00:49:57,160 --> 00:50:01,320
those pieces of air quote
information were so outdated.

965
00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:04,240
Right, they were.
It was like you'd have to get a

966
00:50:04,240 --> 00:50:07,800
new entire set of encyclopedias
every year if you wanted to stay

967
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:09,280
up to date.
Right, exactly.

968
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:11,640
And most people didn't because
they were so expensive.

969
00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:15,840
However, the things that are
historic were accurate because

970
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:20,200
they were historic, but new
information was not available in

971
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:22,920
that format.
If you consider Wikipedia right,

972
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:25,240
Wikipedia is actually named
after encyclopedias.

973
00:50:25,240 --> 00:50:28,640
It's intentional.
It's become a lot more accurate

974
00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:30,720
and respectable in its in its
life.

975
00:50:30,720 --> 00:50:32,520
Because I don't know if you
remember back in the day when

976
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:35,600
teachers would be like, don't
you dare quote Wikipedia as a

977
00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:38,360
source.
But these days you can either

978
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:40,760
you really can quote Wikipedia
as a source, and you can also

979
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:44,360
find the sources in Wikipedia if
you want to do other research.

980
00:50:44,680 --> 00:50:48,640
Anyway, my point is today, if
somebody dies today, their

981
00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:50,680
Wikipedia page is going to be
updated today.

982
00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:52,000
Right.
Isn't that wild?

983
00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:54,440
Yeah, that's wild.
So that's literally a living

984
00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:57,320
encyc.
Living Wikipedia is a living set

985
00:50:57,320 --> 00:51:00,640
of encyclopedias and then some,
because I'm sure that it

986
00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:04,000
contains far more information
than any encyclopedias ever did,

987
00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:05,520
right?
Oh absolutely.

988
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:08,400
And like say updated, updated in
the moment.

989
00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:13,160
If some, if somebody died in
1985 and we had a 1984

990
00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:15,920
encyclopedia set, those things
were expensive.

991
00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:19,640
So we might get another one in
1990 maybe, right.

992
00:51:19,680 --> 00:51:23,160
Like, so that person's death is
not going to be in the record

993
00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:28,000
that we have in the history that
we have for another, even though

994
00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:29,880
it it will be in the next
year's, right.

995
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:33,280
But because we couldn't, most
people couldn't afford a set of

996
00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:35,920
encyclopedias every year.
And also, that's a lot of books.

997
00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:38,320
A lot of books.
A lot of books.

998
00:51:39,720 --> 00:51:44,160
Like that just it doesn't exist
for for me right until those

999
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:46,720
five years later.
Yeah, exactly.

1000
00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:52,520
Well, and back to our Mandela
Effect, they usually have benign

1001
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:55,160
things like maybe a little
change of this memory or that

1002
00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:57,720
memory, or I remember being in
the driveway and maybe and you

1003
00:51:57,720 --> 00:51:59,760
didn't until I told you, but oh,
yeah, OK.

1004
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:02,880
And if I had said I was in the
driveway 2 houses down because I

1005
00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:05,840
didn't want to bother you, you'd
be like, oh, well, that's odd,

1006
00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:08,480
but all right, I mean, I
wouldn't have because that is

1007
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:10,920
odd.
But but if I said something that

1008
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:13,320
was slightly different, it's
like, well, that doesn't change

1009
00:52:13,320 --> 00:52:15,680
it appreciably.
So OK, maybe that was the case.

1010
00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:18,920
I don't, I don't know for sure.
And that's probably doesn't

1011
00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:21,240
really matter.
People might remember certain

1012
00:52:21,240 --> 00:52:23,720
cereal being one way when it was
another.

1013
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:28,160
I don't know, you may have had a
favorite cereal that you thought

1014
00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:31,080
was flakes, but then had
marshmallow puffs in it.

1015
00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:35,080
And I'm like, no, those you
might be thinking of Lucky

1016
00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:37,120
Charms.
And that's not a flake.

1017
00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:38,800
That's a different type of
cereal.

1018
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:42,240
OK, yeah, maybe.
And then we may have to go to

1019
00:52:42,240 --> 00:52:46,440
the store to look to see or look
it up online because now both of

1020
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:49,880
us are not sure what we actually
think or no.

1021
00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:54,640
But in more serious cases, it
can be really, it can change a

1022
00:52:54,640 --> 00:52:56,280
lot of things.
Like I said, things about the

1023
00:52:56,280 --> 00:52:59,480
court and maybe maybe having
someone who's been accused of

1024
00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:02,640
something then convicted and
they were innocent because an

1025
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:07,560
eyewitness was wrong and they
got a implanted memory or they

1026
00:53:07,560 --> 00:53:11,840
got confused or they got older
and they just don't remember as

1027
00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:13,280
well.
And those little details have

1028
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:16,120
gone.
So that's where taking

1029
00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:20,560
somebody'd word for it may not
make sense, but to do some real

1030
00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:23,560
research or or follow up.
But most of these cases, and

1031
00:53:23,560 --> 00:53:25,480
we're going to do some examples
in just a minute.

1032
00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:28,600
Most of these cases are the
benign sort of situation where

1033
00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:33,080
it it doesn't really matter and
you get remember your mind.

1034
00:53:33,080 --> 00:53:36,200
Excuse me, get remembered.
No, you get reminded, you go,

1035
00:53:36,200 --> 00:53:38,280
OK, fine.
And will you remember it again

1036
00:53:38,280 --> 00:53:40,400
later, the way it was correct or
incorrect?

1037
00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:44,480
Probably incorrect, but it's OK.
It doesn't really matter.

1038
00:53:44,840 --> 00:53:47,520
So one of the things, and you
probably know some of this

1039
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:51,080
because you're pretty savvy with
this sort of thing, but which?

1040
00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:54,640
Tell me if you remember which
movies these following quotes

1041
00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:56,680
come from.
And I'm glad I'm asking you, not

1042
00:53:56,680 --> 00:53:58,840
you asking me.
OK.

1043
00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:02,840
So the quote Play it again, Sam.
I already know the answer to

1044
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:04,120
this.
Say it then.

1045
00:54:04,720 --> 00:54:06,320
Casablanca.
OK, good job.

1046
00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:09,280
And then the next one is if you
build it, they will come.

1047
00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:11,960
Field of Dreams.
Good job.

1048
00:54:12,120 --> 00:54:13,840
I told you.
You would probably know these.

1049
00:54:14,160 --> 00:54:17,480
And then Luke, I am your father.
Star Wars.

1050
00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:23,480
I'm not sure which one though.
OK, but that was even super not

1051
00:54:24,360 --> 00:54:26,200
positive.
Star Wars, yes.

1052
00:54:26,200 --> 00:54:27,880
Well, because I was like, am I
saying Chuck?

1053
00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:29,960
Right.
I know I got that because you

1054
00:54:30,080 --> 00:54:31,520
you were going.
I could tell that's what you're

1055
00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:34,040
probably thinking.
And then it's The Empire Strikes

1056
00:54:34,040 --> 00:54:35,960
Back.
And then the 4th one.

1057
00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:38,240
Beam me up.
Stotty, Stotty Scotty.

1058
00:54:38,360 --> 00:54:39,720
That's funny because that is
Star Trek.

1059
00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:44,000
Yes, I know that was funny.
And then the last one on this

1060
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:45,680
segment is Mirror.
Mirror on the Wall.

1061
00:54:45,680 --> 00:54:48,000
Who's the fairest of them all?
Snow White?

1062
00:54:48,240 --> 00:54:50,960
That's right.
Now guess how many got right?

1063
00:54:51,600 --> 00:54:53,640
Well, I got none of them right,
because I know that those aren't

1064
00:54:53,640 --> 00:54:57,240
the quotes, because I know the
Mandela Mandela Effect.

1065
00:54:57,600 --> 00:54:59,360
That's right.
You got zero out of five.

1066
00:54:59,560 --> 00:55:03,240
What you just experienced was a
fascinating phenomenon known as

1067
00:55:03,240 --> 00:55:06,640
the Mandela Effect.
And what's funny is that those

1068
00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:10,600
things are so close that you're
like, oh, yeah, I remember that.

1069
00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:13,960
I'm sure it came from this.
Well, and it's repeated over and

1070
00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:17,840
over again that way in society.
How many times, like how many

1071
00:55:17,840 --> 00:55:19,600
times have you seen in pop
culture?

1072
00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:22,920
Play it again, Sam.
And actually, until I'd watched

1073
00:55:22,920 --> 00:55:26,480
Casablanca, I had never seen the
reference myself.

1074
00:55:26,480 --> 00:55:29,640
I've gotten all of it from
social media and pop culture,

1075
00:55:29,640 --> 00:55:31,280
right?
Like, I've never seen it for

1076
00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:34,240
myself.
And so I, I knew about the, I

1077
00:55:34,240 --> 00:55:36,720
knew about the phenomenon before
I watched Casablanca.

1078
00:55:36,720 --> 00:55:39,800
But I, it was really interesting
to watch it and be like, Yep, he

1079
00:55:39,800 --> 00:55:42,640
sure did not say that.
Do you remember what he actually

1080
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:44,000
did say?
Play it again.

1081
00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:46,480
Yeah, because there's not a Sam
reference, right?

1082
00:55:47,360 --> 00:55:49,680
But I always thought it was
played again, Sam, like I would

1083
00:55:49,680 --> 00:55:53,280
have sworn it for sure.
Well, there was a there was a

1084
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:57,760
study done at the University of
Chicago in 2022, so recent.

1085
00:55:58,360 --> 00:56:03,800
This was done by a person named
Willa Bainbridge and the Parasi

1086
00:56:04,240 --> 00:56:07,000
Prasada.
I apologize for incorrect name

1087
00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:09,560
pronunciation.
Bainbridge, I'm sure, is right

1088
00:56:09,560 --> 00:56:10,720
because there's an island
nearby.

1089
00:56:11,160 --> 00:56:14,440
At any rate, they were a lab
manager and a research

1090
00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:16,720
assistant, and I won't even
attempt to same their names

1091
00:56:16,720 --> 00:56:19,480
again because, you know, it was
incorrect.

1092
00:56:19,680 --> 00:56:20,760
But what they did?
Wait, wait.

1093
00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:24,760
I heard I processed that wrong.
OK, I'm just going to tell you I

1094
00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:28,200
heard they were a lab rat in a
research analysis research

1095
00:56:28,200 --> 00:56:30,440
assistant.
I'm sure none of them was a lab

1096
00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:31,840
rat.
What did you say?

1097
00:56:32,440 --> 00:56:35,320
I'm pretty sure that was correct
that they weren't a lab rat.

1098
00:56:35,840 --> 00:56:39,680
One was a lab manager and one
was a research assistant.

1099
00:56:40,880 --> 00:56:43,640
I hope I didn't say lab rat, but
it's possible.

1100
00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:46,120
That no, I'm sure it was just my
delayed processing.

1101
00:56:46,120 --> 00:56:47,920
That's the problem with my
delayed processing.

1102
00:56:47,920 --> 00:56:49,720
And my kids make fun of me all
the time.

1103
00:56:49,720 --> 00:56:52,400
I think we've also had this
conversation on an episode, but

1104
00:56:52,680 --> 00:56:54,240
my kids say it to me all the
time.

1105
00:56:54,240 --> 00:56:57,680
Like I'll say, did you?
They'll say, you know, I've got

1106
00:56:57,680 --> 00:57:01,000
to go home and I'll be like, did
you say that you ate a whole

1107
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:03,080
phone?
And they, they're like, why

1108
00:57:03,120 --> 00:57:05,680
would I say that, mother?
Why would I say that?

1109
00:57:05,920 --> 00:57:06,920
It's like.
That's right.

1110
00:57:06,920 --> 00:57:08,360
That's.
What I heard, I'm sorry.

1111
00:57:09,240 --> 00:57:13,000
Well, again, at our dinner last
night, Max said something to me.

1112
00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:15,440
And I was like, wait, you said
what?

1113
00:57:15,640 --> 00:57:17,040
And I said what I thought he
said.

1114
00:57:17,040 --> 00:57:19,400
And he's like, no.
And one of the people across

1115
00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:22,440
from me at the table is of a
certain age as well.

1116
00:57:22,440 --> 00:57:24,920
And she said, I can't tell you
how many times my husband and I

1117
00:57:24,920 --> 00:57:27,880
have conversations like that.
And I remember I used to tease

1118
00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:31,360
my parents because they'd be
saying one would say like Papa

1119
00:57:31,360 --> 00:57:33,320
would say one thing and mom
would hear something else.

1120
00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:35,840
I'm like, seriously, those don't
even make sense.

1121
00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:38,800
And they don't usually those
misheard statements like Lab

1122
00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:41,920
Rats don't make any sense.
And and all of a sudden her

1123
00:57:41,920 --> 00:57:44,440
brain goes wait.
Yeah, that's why I had to have

1124
00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:46,520
you go back, because otherwise I
was just going to be thinking of

1125
00:57:46,560 --> 00:57:48,600
a lab rat and their research
assistant.

1126
00:57:48,920 --> 00:57:51,400
Right, right.
And this is part of the Mandela

1127
00:57:51,400 --> 00:57:52,800
Effect, right?
Yeah.

1128
00:57:53,120 --> 00:57:56,840
Anyway, the lab manager and
their research assistant

1129
00:57:57,080 --> 00:58:00,160
compiled images and their false
remembered counterparts.

1130
00:58:00,480 --> 00:58:05,200
So they got things mostly from
popular culture and online

1131
00:58:05,200 --> 00:58:07,880
discussions, things that people
were really familiar with.

1132
00:58:08,400 --> 00:58:11,560
So they got the actual image of
what it was and the

1133
00:58:11,560 --> 00:58:14,240
misremembered image of what it
wasn't.

1134
00:58:15,240 --> 00:58:19,520
And they added to that, like I
said, these misremembered images

1135
00:58:19,600 --> 00:58:23,400
and other pop culture icons and
the characters and things like

1136
00:58:23,400 --> 00:58:25,400
that.
And they just made small tweaks.

1137
00:58:25,520 --> 00:58:29,280
They weren't even necessarily
big things, which is better for

1138
00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:32,680
this sort of a test.
Because I think if we saw

1139
00:58:32,960 --> 00:58:36,840
something that we we had seen
over and over again and it had a

1140
00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:41,200
huge change, it would be easier
to identify and go, no, that's

1141
00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:43,480
not right.
Now we may not be able to say

1142
00:58:43,480 --> 00:58:47,760
what is right, but we would know
that's not because all of a

1143
00:58:47,760 --> 00:58:49,600
sudden something is wildly
different.

1144
00:58:49,960 --> 00:58:52,440
And usually, to be clear, are
there three?

1145
00:58:52,520 --> 00:58:56,040
Are there 3 pictures each in
this experiment?

1146
00:58:56,320 --> 00:59:00,160
In some case, in some cases they
had more than two, but in most

1147
00:59:00,160 --> 00:59:04,280
cases they just had two.
Though what they did is they

1148
00:59:04,280 --> 00:59:07,960
took the familiar characters.
Like I said, they wanted to just

1149
00:59:07,960 --> 00:59:12,000
see how people looked at it and
they set out to test for ideas.

1150
00:59:12,280 --> 00:59:15,760
The 1st and main goal was to
determine how widespread and

1151
00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:18,520
consistent the visual Mandela
Effect was.

1152
00:59:19,040 --> 00:59:23,080
And it was mostly across
individuals for the 40 different

1153
00:59:23,080 --> 00:59:26,040
icons that they assembled.
And they wanted to see where

1154
00:59:26,040 --> 00:59:27,840
people were still making these
errors.

1155
00:59:28,240 --> 00:59:31,160
Even if they're very familiar
with the content.

1156
00:59:31,160 --> 00:59:34,720
They looked at different like to
say different things.

1157
00:59:34,720 --> 00:59:38,400
And they wanted to know the
underlying causes of why they're

1158
00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:42,320
seeing an error in the image.
Or they wanted to look at to see

1159
00:59:42,320 --> 00:59:46,160
quantify how common these false
memories were in the world by

1160
00:59:46,160 --> 00:59:49,520
looking at Google Images and and
then in their their 4th

1161
00:59:49,640 --> 00:59:51,680
experiment they were doing, they
studied whether people

1162
00:59:51,680 --> 00:59:54,800
spontaneously produce these
errors if asked to draw an image

1163
00:59:54,800 --> 00:59:58,000
from memory.
And they often made the same

1164
00:59:58,000 --> 01:00:01,120
error.
So if they misremembered it,

1165
01:00:01,520 --> 01:00:06,080
then they were fairly consistent
about misremembering it.

1166
01:00:06,200 --> 01:00:08,960
The study was being done and I
was just trying to see if I

1167
01:00:08,960 --> 01:00:12,400
could remember.
Find out how many people were

1168
01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:16,080
involved and I don't I don't see
a note right here about it.

1169
01:00:16,080 --> 01:00:18,880
But one of the things you
remember the children book

1170
01:00:18,880 --> 01:00:22,520
series about the bears.
This is the one that hunts my

1171
01:00:22,560 --> 01:00:23,680
soul.
Right.

1172
01:00:23,680 --> 01:00:24,680
What is it?
Tell us?

1173
01:00:24,800 --> 01:00:27,120
OK, so.
I'm shaking my fists in

1174
01:00:27,240 --> 01:00:32,120
frustration.
OK, so the book allegedly is

1175
01:00:32,120 --> 01:00:37,120
called The Berenstain Bears.
BERENSTAIN, correct?

1176
01:00:37,400 --> 01:00:42,360
The argument or the Mandela
Effect is that no, the book is

1177
01:00:42,360 --> 01:00:47,840
called The Berenstain Bears.
That's RENSTEIN.

1178
01:00:47,920 --> 01:00:50,600
But let me tell you why this
haunts my soul.

1179
01:00:50,600 --> 01:00:56,200
I do because I studied German in
junior high and high school.

1180
01:00:56,320 --> 01:01:03,600
I was on a high horse knowing
that that last name should have

1181
01:01:03,600 --> 01:01:09,640
been pronounced Berenstein.
I know this.

1182
01:01:10,160 --> 01:01:16,960
I remember this.
It was Berenstein because it

1183
01:01:16,960 --> 01:01:19,560
should have been pronounced
Berenstein.

1184
01:01:21,240 --> 01:01:22,960
Wouldn't say that about
Bernstein.

1185
01:01:23,320 --> 01:01:26,360
That's my story that I'm
sticking to it.

1186
01:01:27,080 --> 01:01:29,880
Oh, isn't that hilarious?
And so that really hits you.

1187
01:01:29,880 --> 01:01:33,880
And a lot of people remember it
incorrectly one one way or

1188
01:01:33,880 --> 01:01:36,920
another.
I I also thought for a while it

1189
01:01:36,920 --> 01:01:40,840
was Barnstein.
And there's not an A anywhere in

1190
01:01:40,840 --> 01:01:42,760
that word.
But that's how I remembered it.

1191
01:01:43,000 --> 01:01:47,960
And it may be that my family
mispronounced it or something

1192
01:01:47,960 --> 01:01:49,360
like that.
Or maybe it's just where a

1193
01:01:49,360 --> 01:01:52,080
person came from.
All right, so are you looking

1194
01:01:52,080 --> 01:01:53,720
online on these things?
Don't cheat.

1195
01:01:53,720 --> 01:01:55,080
No, no.
OK, good.

1196
01:01:55,360 --> 01:01:58,920
I didn't want you to cheat.
So the Monopoly man, does the

1197
01:01:58,920 --> 01:02:01,360
Monopoly man have a monocle or
not?

1198
01:02:01,720 --> 01:02:03,360
Not.
Correct.

1199
01:02:04,160 --> 01:02:05,920
But I thought he did.
I swear he did.

1200
01:02:05,920 --> 01:02:08,760
When I was looking at this, I
said of course he did.

1201
01:02:09,040 --> 01:02:12,440
Oh my gosh, he does not.
He didn't ever you want.

1202
01:02:12,520 --> 01:02:14,640
To know my theory now?
Or do you want to wait to know

1203
01:02:14,640 --> 01:02:16,320
my theory?
I want to wait to know your

1204
01:02:16,320 --> 01:02:18,280
theory.
Let's go over a few more and

1205
01:02:18,280 --> 01:02:22,120
then Pikachu No tail does.
What's that?

1206
01:02:22,520 --> 01:02:24,360
No tail?
Incorrect.

1207
01:02:24,480 --> 01:02:28,080
He has a tail.
However, is it black tip or is

1208
01:02:28,080 --> 01:02:31,240
it yellow?
Oh, it's, I don't know, black

1209
01:02:31,240 --> 01:02:33,840
tips.
It is correct, it's black

1210
01:02:33,840 --> 01:02:35,920
tipped, but it was really funny
that you didn't think he had a

1211
01:02:35,920 --> 01:02:38,840
tail at all and his ears have a
black tip.

1212
01:02:38,840 --> 01:02:41,680
People will take some
information and then transfer it

1213
01:02:41,680 --> 01:02:43,040
to something else that makes
more sense.

1214
01:02:43,240 --> 01:02:45,600
Why did he have a yellow tail
without a black tip but he had

1215
01:02:45,600 --> 01:02:47,240
black tip ears?
I don't know.

1216
01:02:47,520 --> 01:02:50,880
And that's how it is.
Do you remember Shaggy from

1217
01:02:50,880 --> 01:02:55,320
scooby-doo?
Do you remember that he had a

1218
01:02:55,320 --> 01:02:58,680
big Adam's apple, like when he
inhaled the giant sandwich?

1219
01:02:58,920 --> 01:03:01,480
Yeah, there are lots of other
people and he doesn't.

1220
01:03:01,520 --> 01:03:04,760
I remember that so clearly.
I remember so clearly.

1221
01:03:04,760 --> 01:03:06,840
Going up and down.
What were we seeing?

1222
01:03:06,840 --> 01:03:08,920
Why did we see that?
I don't know.

1223
01:03:08,920 --> 01:03:12,040
And then in the famous line that
we were talking about, Luke, I

1224
01:03:12,080 --> 01:03:14,120
am your father.
The actual line is.

1225
01:03:14,160 --> 01:03:17,400
No, I am your father.
That's crazy.

1226
01:03:17,520 --> 01:03:19,880
And in the Fruit of the Loom, do
you remember that?

1227
01:03:19,880 --> 01:03:21,960
The underwear commercial, or are
you too young for that?

1228
01:03:22,320 --> 01:03:23,480
No, I know it.
OK.

1229
01:03:23,600 --> 01:03:26,520
Many people remember the logo
having a cornucopia.

1230
01:03:27,040 --> 01:03:28,720
Remember that.
So do I.

1231
01:03:28,840 --> 01:03:32,640
I feel like that's part of how I
knew what a cornucopia is.

1232
01:03:32,760 --> 01:03:33,360
I know.
Huh?

1233
01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:36,400
It didn't.
It was just a bundle of fruit on

1234
01:03:36,400 --> 01:03:39,640
a plain background, which is so.
Wild, I'm biting my tongue.

1235
01:03:39,800 --> 01:03:44,960
Okay, and then there are all
kinds of examples like that,

1236
01:03:44,960 --> 01:03:49,920
which is so wild to me that it
could be so different.

1237
01:03:50,240 --> 01:03:52,480
And then what about Mickey
Mouse?

1238
01:03:52,480 --> 01:03:54,680
How does he hold up his pants
with his waist?

1239
01:03:56,400 --> 01:03:59,960
OK, with his waist?
Well, a lot of people remember

1240
01:03:59,960 --> 01:04:03,760
him with suspenders, but he
never had suspenders.

1241
01:04:03,840 --> 01:04:06,200
I mean, he may have been an
outfit or something, but not

1242
01:04:06,200 --> 01:04:10,240
that was not his common thing.
And what about the Wicked Witch

1243
01:04:10,240 --> 01:04:12,800
when she sent her flying monkeys
after Dorothy in the Wizard of

1244
01:04:12,800 --> 01:04:14,600
Oz?
Do you remember what she said?

1245
01:04:14,600 --> 01:04:16,280
Why?
My pretties fly.

1246
01:04:16,400 --> 01:04:17,640
Correct.
But she didn't.

1247
01:04:17,720 --> 01:04:19,920
She actually just shouts fly,
fly, fly.

1248
01:04:20,880 --> 01:04:24,600
No, it's your language, young
lady.

1249
01:04:25,400 --> 01:04:27,640
Don't edit that out though,
because it's honest.

1250
01:04:27,720 --> 01:04:31,480
I know it is with the cereal,
with the peanut butter flavored

1251
01:04:31,480 --> 01:04:32,840
cereal with a pirate on the
front.

1252
01:04:32,840 --> 01:04:34,200
Do you remember what that's
called?

1253
01:04:34,280 --> 01:04:35,880
Cap and crunch.
Say it again.

1254
01:04:35,920 --> 01:04:37,640
Cap and crunch.
Correct.

1255
01:04:37,680 --> 01:04:39,800
You're correct.
I always thought it was Captain.

1256
01:04:40,320 --> 01:04:43,160
Oh, really?
Yeah, I 'cause I mean,

1257
01:04:43,360 --> 01:04:46,280
potentially in her family, it
was pronounced correctly, even

1258
01:04:46,280 --> 01:04:49,440
though that's not what it said.
And then what about this?

1259
01:04:49,760 --> 01:04:51,440
What about do you remember what
the color?

1260
01:04:51,440 --> 01:04:53,000
Snoopy's tail is?
White.

1261
01:04:53,080 --> 01:04:57,440
It has white, but it most people
think that it's black, but it's

1262
01:04:57,440 --> 01:05:00,160
white with a small spot on it.
And the spot is near his body,

1263
01:05:00,160 --> 01:05:02,160
not the end of the tail.
Is this wild?

1264
01:05:02,200 --> 01:05:06,440
I, I can't even do this now.
There's one here that I wasn't

1265
01:05:06,440 --> 01:05:09,360
familiar with, but you might be
this articles.

1266
01:05:09,480 --> 01:05:11,640
It was in the Good Housekeeping
magazine, it says.

1267
01:05:11,960 --> 01:05:14,080
This one is perhaps the most
bizarre of all.

1268
01:05:14,080 --> 01:05:16,760
Several people can attest that
they distinctly remember seeing

1269
01:05:16,760 --> 01:05:19,000
the comedian in a movie called
Shazam.

1270
01:05:19,080 --> 01:05:21,200
Do you remember who that was by
any chance?

1271
01:05:21,320 --> 01:05:23,800
I remember who it wasn't who
said that.

1272
01:05:24,240 --> 01:05:28,040
Yeah, I know it was actually
Kazam and it was a basketball

1273
01:05:28,040 --> 01:05:28,840
player.
Shaq.

1274
01:05:28,920 --> 01:05:30,680
Shaq, Yeah.
Right.

1275
01:05:31,400 --> 01:05:34,720
Well, I had never seen either
one of those movies, but.

1276
01:05:34,720 --> 01:05:37,200
That's one of them doesn't
exist, right?

1277
01:05:37,280 --> 01:05:39,280
Right.
That's why that's.

1278
01:05:39,320 --> 01:05:41,680
Why?
See, I I didn't let's see either

1279
01:05:41,680 --> 01:05:43,600
one of them.
Although I do remember people

1280
01:05:43,600 --> 01:05:47,480
saying Shazam, but I don't know
how it was related to yeah, it's

1281
01:05:47,480 --> 01:05:49,520
just wild.
And the peanut butter called

1282
01:05:49,520 --> 01:05:52,240
Jiffy bread.
And a lot of people that thought

1283
01:05:52,240 --> 01:05:55,680
of it as Jiffy, I didn't, I
don't think because I remember

1284
01:05:55,680 --> 01:05:57,400
Jiffy Pop.
I think that's.

1285
01:05:57,840 --> 01:05:59,560
Probably, yeah, that's probably
what.

1286
01:05:59,560 --> 01:06:02,440
They're now, I have no idea,
maybe that's wrong too.

1287
01:06:02,680 --> 01:06:05,280
But one of the things they say
in these studies is that maybe

1288
01:06:05,280 --> 01:06:08,360
people remembered as Jiffy
because there was a competitor

1289
01:06:08,360 --> 01:06:09,600
named Skippy.
Oh, yeah.

1290
01:06:09,760 --> 01:06:14,000
So Jiff was the one and Skippy
was the other.

1291
01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:18,960
So those are examples of where
people connect different things

1292
01:06:19,280 --> 01:06:20,800
because maybe Jiff wasn't
enough.

1293
01:06:20,800 --> 01:06:22,960
They thought it should be Jiffy
like Skippy and Skippy.

1294
01:06:22,960 --> 01:06:25,040
Anyway, what was your?
What was it you were going to

1295
01:06:25,040 --> 01:06:29,480
say about your theory?
So I truly believe that we jump

1296
01:06:29,480 --> 01:06:33,320
timelines and that all of these
things that they may not all be

1297
01:06:33,320 --> 01:06:36,680
true on one.
Like it may not be a dichotomy,

1298
01:06:36,680 --> 01:06:39,880
it might not be binary like
timeline A and timeline B and

1299
01:06:39,880 --> 01:06:44,600
one has this one has all those,
one has all those because I

1300
01:06:44,600 --> 01:06:48,120
don't, I did know that Nelson
Mandela was alive in the 90s.

1301
01:06:48,120 --> 01:06:50,120
I didn't know he died in 2013,
but I did.

1302
01:06:50,120 --> 01:06:53,320
And I did know he was the
president of South Africa after

1303
01:06:53,320 --> 01:06:56,440
his exile.
So I but I just I truly believe

1304
01:06:56,440 --> 01:06:59,960
that we jumped timelines.
Maybe we jumped timelines as

1305
01:06:59,960 --> 01:07:02,720
timelines as timelines is also,
I don't know, but that's what I

1306
01:07:02,720 --> 01:07:04,960
believe.
I just the Bernstein barons,

1307
01:07:05,000 --> 01:07:08,960
man, I'm telling you.
I'm telling you, my snobby

1308
01:07:08,960 --> 01:07:12,640
little holier than thou self
being like I know better than

1309
01:07:12,640 --> 01:07:14,680
all of you because it's
Bernstein.

1310
01:07:16,480 --> 01:07:18,880
Oh my gosh, I think you.
Can't convince me.

1311
01:07:18,880 --> 01:07:20,760
I remember it wrong.
You cannot convince me.

1312
01:07:20,840 --> 01:07:24,560
That's a really strange giant
memory to make up if.

1313
01:07:24,560 --> 01:07:26,680
That's wild.
I do, and people do it all the

1314
01:07:26,680 --> 01:07:28,600
time.
The last example I was going to

1315
01:07:28,600 --> 01:07:31,560
give you was Curious George.
Does he or does he not have a

1316
01:07:31,560 --> 01:07:33,880
tail?
No tail, correct.

1317
01:07:34,160 --> 01:07:36,000
But most people envision him
with a tail.

1318
01:07:36,000 --> 01:07:40,320
And I think in that case it's
because most people see little

1319
01:07:40,840 --> 01:07:43,360
monkeys and I think what was he
a chimpanzee?

1320
01:07:43,360 --> 01:07:45,880
I can't remember.
But they see him with a tail

1321
01:07:45,880 --> 01:07:48,680
because the the actual being has
a tail.

1322
01:07:48,920 --> 01:07:51,120
Well, because you, when you go
to the zoo, right?

1323
01:07:51,120 --> 01:07:53,520
You go to zoo, monkeys,
chimpanzees, whatever he is,

1324
01:07:53,840 --> 01:07:55,920
have a tail and they use it to
swing and stuff.

1325
01:07:55,960 --> 01:07:58,160
Yeah.
And how about this?

1326
01:07:59,200 --> 01:08:01,200
OK, I said that was the last
one, but listen to this.

1327
01:08:01,560 --> 01:08:03,040
You know the song for the
baloney?

1328
01:08:03,600 --> 01:08:05,440
My baloney has a first name.
What is it?

1329
01:08:05,560 --> 01:08:07,920
Oscar?
My baloney has a second name.

1330
01:08:07,920 --> 01:08:14,320
It's Mayer, but.
A lot of people say Meyer Oh,

1331
01:08:14,400 --> 01:08:17,240
really?
It is the correct answer is MAY,

1332
01:08:18,240 --> 01:08:20,160
And that may be one of those
things.

1333
01:08:20,160 --> 01:08:26,319
That's a a telephone game that I
heard a song and oh, I OK Mayer

1334
01:08:26,600 --> 01:08:30,399
and it was never EI mean a.
It was always E And then think

1335
01:08:30,399 --> 01:08:35,560
about the songs that that maybe
you've heard for years and years

1336
01:08:35,560 --> 01:08:37,399
and years and you sang it one
way and all of a sudden you

1337
01:08:37,399 --> 01:08:39,520
heard that.
That was not right.

1338
01:08:40,240 --> 01:08:43,520
I mean, I think everyone I know
has heard a song and sang it for

1339
01:08:43,520 --> 01:08:46,240
years since they were a kid.
And all of a sudden they said,

1340
01:08:46,240 --> 01:08:48,200
wait, they said pickle, not
orange.

1341
01:08:48,560 --> 01:08:50,399
How is that a thing?
I mean, they didn't.

1342
01:08:50,520 --> 01:08:55,680
Tell you whole story about that.
But that's just misheard lyrics.

1343
01:08:56,000 --> 01:08:58,200
For example, I got to tell you
because this is a popular song

1344
01:08:58,240 --> 01:09:01,279
because Smash Mouth made it
popular with Shrek.

1345
01:09:01,720 --> 01:09:03,920
So, you know, I'm a believer.
Yeah.

1346
01:09:03,960 --> 01:09:08,040
So there's a line that says when
I needed sunshine, I got rain.

1347
01:09:08,600 --> 01:09:11,319
For the majority of my child
life.

1348
01:09:11,439 --> 01:09:15,319
I thought it said when I needed
sunshine on my brain.

1349
01:09:17,240 --> 01:09:21,520
And when I misheard lyrics like
this, I would always try to make

1350
01:09:21,520 --> 01:09:24,479
it make sense.
So I would think like, OK, what

1351
01:09:24,479 --> 01:09:27,240
does he mean by sunshine on my
brain?

1352
01:09:27,240 --> 01:09:32,760
He needs to be cheered up like
maybe a funny movie.

1353
01:09:35,720 --> 01:09:38,399
Yeah, and you're right.
And that can just be a plain

1354
01:09:38,399 --> 01:09:41,920
mishearing, but that's part of
what these memories and these

1355
01:09:41,920 --> 01:09:46,040
inserted or embedded memories
can be is I hear all my friends

1356
01:09:46,040 --> 01:09:49,240
saying or singing something
like, oh, I must have just been

1357
01:09:49,240 --> 01:09:53,160
wrong.
And then that is now my memory.

1358
01:09:53,439 --> 01:09:57,160
And then another last one, even
though I said this repeatedly

1359
01:09:57,160 --> 01:10:01,600
now with CP3 O, do you remember
what he looks like?

1360
01:10:02,600 --> 01:10:07,040
I know about the 1 silver leg.
I had no idea.

1361
01:10:07,120 --> 01:10:13,240
I would swear 100% of the time
that he had two gold legs.

1362
01:10:14,120 --> 01:10:16,200
If.
You think that you're as

1363
01:10:16,200 --> 01:10:20,560
incorrect as I am.
He had one silver leg and it

1364
01:10:20,560 --> 01:10:22,600
appears to be from the knee down
on the right leg.

1365
01:10:23,520 --> 01:10:28,600
And I, you know, as I look at
this and we're talking about

1366
01:10:28,600 --> 01:10:32,480
this out loud, I think I do
remember when he had been in an

1367
01:10:32,520 --> 01:10:36,320
accident and blown up and he was
putting things back together.

1368
01:10:36,440 --> 01:10:38,120
I bet that's when he got a
silver leg.

1369
01:10:38,240 --> 01:10:39,840
Yeah, probably.
I've never thought about that

1370
01:10:39,840 --> 01:10:41,280
far.
But yeah, you're probably right.

1371
01:10:41,280 --> 01:10:45,920
At any rate, our minds are just
malleable things.

1372
01:10:46,280 --> 01:10:48,880
We may or may not remember
things correctly.

1373
01:10:49,320 --> 01:10:55,360
We may or may not care.
Sometimes it matters in those

1374
01:10:55,360 --> 01:10:59,080
more important moments like we
said, like with identification

1375
01:10:59,080 --> 01:11:02,440
or remembering details in
something that is very important

1376
01:11:02,440 --> 01:11:05,320
and maybe we don't get it right.
Sometimes things are spread on

1377
01:11:05,320 --> 01:11:09,680
multi multimedia, yes, or social
media, which is what I meant.

1378
01:11:09,720 --> 01:11:11,440
And then it'll goes and goes and
goes.

1379
01:11:11,440 --> 01:11:15,040
And many of these things are
completely harmless or benign as

1380
01:11:15,040 --> 01:11:18,440
we said before, but some of them
are dangerous and damaging.

1381
01:11:18,440 --> 01:11:22,720
It can be something that could
be really misused by people and

1382
01:11:22,720 --> 01:11:27,160
I believe has been really
misused by people in order to

1383
01:11:27,160 --> 01:11:30,360
get people to think, the whole
group of people to think a

1384
01:11:30,360 --> 01:11:33,240
certain way.
And that's where we get to take

1385
01:11:33,240 --> 01:11:37,080
our responsibility of looking up
things, looking up details, so

1386
01:11:37,080 --> 01:11:40,040
that we make sure that we're
correct when we spread.

1387
01:11:40,360 --> 01:11:44,680
Details, but using valid
sources, you know, not not #1

1388
01:11:44,680 --> 01:11:47,840
not believing everything you
hear or see on the Internet, but

1389
01:11:47,840 --> 01:11:52,080
also making sure that backed by
expertise and stuff like that.

1390
01:11:52,760 --> 01:11:53,920
Sure.
And then when you bring in

1391
01:11:53,920 --> 01:11:57,200
things like AI now, which when I
was growing up was never a

1392
01:11:57,200 --> 01:11:59,840
thing, we just had bad memories.
Now we've got people who are

1393
01:11:59,840 --> 01:12:04,520
actually changing things in a
way that looks really authentic,

1394
01:12:04,680 --> 01:12:07,880
especially to those of us who
have been raised believing

1395
01:12:07,880 --> 01:12:10,000
because what we saw is what it
was, right?

1396
01:12:10,000 --> 01:12:13,480
But now I think especially when
we have our younger generations,

1397
01:12:13,480 --> 01:12:15,880
they know that things aren't
necessarily what they look like,

1398
01:12:15,880 --> 01:12:18,920
and that is maybe making them
more discerning.

1399
01:12:19,200 --> 01:12:23,120
But it bothers me too, because
that means that they have to be

1400
01:12:23,560 --> 01:12:27,320
and we now have to be worried
about what is really actually

1401
01:12:27,320 --> 01:12:30,280
accurate and not just take
things for granted, like we've

1402
01:12:30,360 --> 01:12:31,840
said.
But these are, I guess, kind of

1403
01:12:31,840 --> 01:12:33,280
different words for the same
point.

1404
01:12:33,280 --> 01:12:36,240
Buyer beware, if you will.
Make sure you know what you're

1405
01:12:36,240 --> 01:12:37,840
looking at.
Make make sure you know what

1406
01:12:37,840 --> 01:12:40,560
decisions you're making based on
what information you're getting

1407
01:12:40,560 --> 01:12:43,720
with the appropriate research
and confirmation and things like

1408
01:12:43,720 --> 01:12:45,720
that.
And in some cases, it can be

1409
01:12:45,720 --> 01:12:48,280
obvious.
It could be either too good to

1410
01:12:48,280 --> 01:12:51,600
be true or just looks weird if
you're talking about a picture

1411
01:12:51,600 --> 01:12:55,120
or something like that.
I found this Mandela Effect.

1412
01:12:55,200 --> 01:12:57,480
Mandela Effect.
But how do you.

1413
01:12:58,040 --> 01:13:00,600
I found this to be just mind
boggling.

1414
01:13:00,600 --> 01:13:04,400
And I know I say that a lot, but
it's just is I I just couldn't

1415
01:13:04,400 --> 01:13:07,400
believe some of the things I
misremembered with just those

1416
01:13:07,400 --> 01:13:10,160
minor detail changes.
Did any of this surprise you or

1417
01:13:10,160 --> 01:13:11,800
did you pretty much know all of
this?

1418
01:13:11,800 --> 01:13:13,600
Sort of seems like you know all
of this.

1419
01:13:13,800 --> 01:13:15,880
Yeah, that's what I thought a
lot of people do.

1420
01:13:15,880 --> 01:13:20,280
I know I knew it quotes, but to
find out where I had been

1421
01:13:20,280 --> 01:13:24,000
incorrect surprised me because I
hadn't really looked into it

1422
01:13:24,000 --> 01:13:26,040
before.
And it's just it's just wild.

1423
01:13:26,040 --> 01:13:30,360
So thanks for walking down this
memory or Miss memory lane with

1424
01:13:30,360 --> 01:13:31,120
me.
You're welcome.

1425
01:13:32,000 --> 01:13:34,480
Talk to you soon.
All right, if you've made it

1426
01:13:34,480 --> 01:13:37,120
this far, clearly you like a
little mayhem with your

1427
01:13:37,120 --> 01:13:39,200
medicine.
Or you just enjoy hearing us

1428
01:13:39,200 --> 01:13:41,040
ramble about weird medical
mysteries.

1429
01:13:41,360 --> 01:13:42,920
Either way, we'd love you for
it.

1430
01:13:43,160 --> 01:13:45,800
So hit that follow or subscribe
button wherever you're

1431
01:13:45,800 --> 01:13:47,560
listening.
And toss us a rating or review

1432
01:13:47,640 --> 01:13:50,840
you while you're at it helps
other curious weirdos find the

1433
01:13:50,840 --> 01:13:53,400
show.
And we know there are a lot of

1434
01:13:53,400 --> 01:13:55,560
you out there.
Oh so many.

1435
01:13:55,800 --> 01:13:57,960
Come join the chaos.
Thanks for listening to

1436
01:13:57,960 --> 01:14:01,040
Medicine, Mystery, mayhem, and
sometimes Murder.

1437
01:14:01,640 --> 01:14:04,160
Do you have an idea for an
episode of this podcast?

1438
01:14:04,600 --> 01:14:07,680
Just want to say hi?
You can get in touch with us at

1439
01:14:07,720 --> 01:14:12,200
our M4 pod.
That's OURM

1440
01:14:12,280 --> 01:14:18,720
thenumberfourpod@gmail.com.
We read every e-mail, and

1441
01:14:18,720 --> 01:14:22,040
sometimes we even respond just
like real professionals.

1442
01:14:22,240 --> 01:14:26,640
Because we are.
Old friends with new twists and

1443
01:14:26,640 --> 01:14:28,400
lots of body bags.