No One Knows What It’s Like

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Welcome to M4 Medicine, mystery,
mayhem, and sometimes murder.

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I'm Andrea Marziano and RN with
35 years of experience across

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various fields.
From direct patient care in

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hospitals to home health,
geriatrics, and injury medicine,

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I face life, death, and
everything in between.

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And I'm Crystal Miller and RN
with 13 1/2 years of experience.

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My work spans home health,
Hospice, emergency care,

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geriatrics, and occupational
health.

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From the chaos of trauma based
quiet moments with patients,

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I've seen stories that defy
explanation.

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We've been friends for over 25
years and as nurses we've shared

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countless stories that have left
us and our families speechless.

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Now we're bringing those stories
and many more to you in

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medicine, mystery, mayhem, and
sometimes murder.

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Each week, we'll uncover cases
that challenge the boundaries of

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medicine, sharing the human
stories behind the science.

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From puzzling medical mysteries
to shocking real life crimes,

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we'll bring you stories that'll
leave you questioning everything

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you thought you knew.
While we're both experienced

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nurses, we want to make it clear
we're not here to give medical

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advice.
This podcast is about

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storytelling, education and
exploration, not diagnosing or

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treating medical conditions.
This is medicine, mystery,

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mayhem, and sometimes murder.
Let's dive in.

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Hey Crystal, how are you doing
today?

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I'm doing all right.
How are you?

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I am good, I enjoy this time of
year and I'm looking forward to

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a three-week visit with her
granddaughter coming up.

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That's wonderful.
I'm sure you can tell him a

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little bit.
It's froggy.

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So my voice is recovering from
an illness last week so.

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So you've got baby frogs in your
throat.

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I got baby frogs in my throat.
That's right.

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Well, Speaking of babies, as I
was walking from one part of the

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property to the other, we've got
a pond, as you know, and but our

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listeners may not.
As I was walking by, there was a

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Mama duck yelling at me or her
babies, I'm not really sure

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which.
But she had three babies with

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her and that she was yelling at
me as she was going across the

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pond with her babies.
I'm not sure if she's the same

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duck we had that had 12 babies.
I hope not, because three out of

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12 is not a great ratio.
Yeah, there's nothing around

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here because there are a lot of
other predators.

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I have a case for you today that
is pretty intense and it's

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pretty in depth.
We're going to just jump right

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in.
What I've titled it is Medical

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Mishaps or Malfeasance by
surgeon Michael Swango.

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Most of it is malfeasance.
The case is fascinating on many

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levels, to me at least.
And just for a note, I'm going

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to be reading some parts of it
just because there's just no

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other way to put it that's
better.

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So there'll be some things I'll
be reading, some things I'll

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just be talking about through my
research.

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And my sources are the doctor
whose patients kept dying in The

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New Yorker by James Stewart.
And this was 1997.

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How a murderous Dr. was allowed
to keep killing patients.

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New York Post life, life in jail
for poison doctors.

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CBS News US doctor may have
killed 60.

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National Library.
Science of medicine, right?

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I know this case is wild.
I mean, there's all kinds of

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other things I could say about
it, but it's just, it's mind

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boggling.
And much of what I got was from

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The New Yorker article and I
read it first.

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So that's one of the reasons
why.

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But all of these other things
reflected the same information.

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So I'm going to start this case
with just kind of a background a

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little bit.
The case is multifaceted and

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hit, but his legal trouble began
in 1985 and it began in the

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courtroom of Judge Dennis Cash,
freshman.

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He was over a trial for Michael
Swango, who is a young doctor.

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He was just newly minted, as it
were.

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He had already been convicted of
poisoning 5 Co workers at

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Quincy's Blessing Hospital in
Illinois.

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Good start.
Right.

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Yeah, no kidding.
Wow.

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Sheesh.
So the victims who had worked

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with Swango, I call him Swango
and Michael at different times.

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And I noticed that as I got more
frustrated than I called him,

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Michael Moore and I didn't.
Call him Doctor.

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At any point, because I feel
like he didn't deserve the

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title.
He was, however, a trained

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medical provider, not in what he
was doing per SE, but he was

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trained.
So anyway, that's my little

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caveat.
Who he had worked closely with,

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had considered him a friend, had
worked different shifts with

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him.
They bonded and all of the

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things.
But at this trial in 1985, they

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provided compelling testimony
against him.

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They actually kind of had to.
The judge said he was struck by

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the incongruity between the
defendant and his alleged

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crimes.
The judge said on many

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occasions, Swango, he looked
like the lead up to Beaver kind

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of personality.
That's what he called him.

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And he said he was engaging.
He was 30.

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He had blonde hair, Hazel eyes
and he just had a friendly

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demeanor and a broad smile.
And I looked him up online and

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in his most of the pictures,
they were they were mug shots

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and things like that.
So he no longer look like 1 to

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leave it to be her characters,
but I could see how he could

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have.
He'd been the valedictorian of

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his high school class and a
complete did an internship and

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surgery at Ohio State
University.

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So knowing all of this was
incongruous to the judge, which

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I thought was really interesting
because it was me too.

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Swango, unfortunately chose to
be the principal witness in his

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own defense, but because he'd
been articulate and likable, he

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thought he was going to be OK.
Unfortunately for him, his

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likability had little to do with
the ultimate outcome because the

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evidence had been compelling,
conclusive as well.

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Swango had given his victim
varying doses of, guess what,

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poison.
Bryson.

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Close.
That would have been easier to

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find actually in this time
frame.

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But arsenic, OK, what's
fascinating to me, and I may use

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this word too many times this
time, but it just this whole

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case modeled my mind.
But he didn't have the intention

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of killing them.
He just wanted to see their

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reactions.
Oh, that's horrifying.

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He literally poisoned them to
see how they would respond.

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So like Doctor Mangala?
Like any other kind of

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psychopath.
Yeah.

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Anyway, that's another side note
too, because I'm not diagnosing

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him officially.
I'm not treated this person.

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I'm not able to diagnose.
I have not.

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It was far too long ago for me
to be trained.

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And anyway, anyway, James
Cashman ended up sentencing him

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for the maximum term allowed,
which is five years.

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OK, it went over.
There was a bunch of evidence

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and we'll talk a little bit
about some of what happened in a

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look back sort of thing later.
But just know that he did the

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maximum term allowed, which is
five years.

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And this was after poisoning
multiple people.

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But remember, this case was
tried in 85.

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He was paroled in 87.
Wow.

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Right, right.
And then he attempted to resume

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his medical career.
And what's interesting is the

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judge.
Cashman said he received a

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number of inquiries from
hospitals, medical schools and

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placement services after
Swanko's release.

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So they called him to check in.
I guess I, I'm not really sure.

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So things kind of moved along.
But in 1999, an FBI agent

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visited Judge Cashman as
Chambers, and he said that the

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FBI was trying to develop a
psychological profiles.

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Thank Swango, because Swango was
thought to have fled the country

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in early 1994 because he was
being sought by police in Long

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Island for some things we will
talk about in a minute.

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So the agent told the judge that
the Bureau had connected Swango

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to a number of possible
homicides.

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So he moved from seeing how
things worked with people to

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potentially killing people.
And the FBI agent said that he

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might have killed dozens of
people.

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He ultimately was arrested in
the summer of 1998, the Chicago

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International Airport, but he
was initially initially held on

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a minor fraud charge because
they just needed to get him in

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cuffs.
OK, Yeah, yeah, I get that.

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Anyway, so this is kind of the
setup for the rest of the story.

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Hold on to your socks, sister.
This is a thing.

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Oh boy, oh boy.
I know Judge Cashman, he was one

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of the things, one of the people
that was interviewed in most of

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these articles because he had
such a big part of it.

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But he said several times that
he was either astonished or

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mortified or blah, blah, blah.
But he said he was astonished by

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the number of his alleged
victims, which it proved could

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make him one of the most
prolific serial killers in

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American history.
You know, we think of serial

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killers, I think as somebody
wielding some giant knife or

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doing some something, tearing
someone limb to limb and things

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like that.
And one of the cases we've

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covered had someone also in a
similar notoriety because he was

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a serial killer that did it in a
more quiet kind of way.

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Our podcast does talk about
medical sorts of things, and in

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my case, malfeasance is what
I've called it.

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But it's just so fascinating
that this could happen in this

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kind of way.
The judge said that he was

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equally disturbed by the number
of hospital administrators and

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doctors who entrusted the care
of patients to a man who they

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knew to be a convicted felon.
This is mirroring so closely

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right now at this moment of
Doctor Dutch, whose nickname is

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Doctor Death.
All of these passes that were

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literally fatal like.
And you'll see that's even true

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more and more as we go along
because there were a lot of

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times that people just assumed
he couldn't possibly be doing

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what he thinks what they thought
he was doing or individually the

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people thought, well, it's not
that bad.

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It's not my place to say or
something like that, but the

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judge said it's out outrageous
that he had been allowed to go

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on.
He also said this is a quote,

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it's a national scandal and I
have to agree.

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And you?
Probably will wait.

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Sounds like my voice might be
getting worse.

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It's OK, we'll just pretend like
it's not.

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How's that?
In all of these cases, we like

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to look at how a person got to
this point, right?

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How?
What's your history?

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What could have possibly
happened?

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Usually there's some dramatic,
traumatic, horrible thing.

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In the case of Michael Swango,
really, it seemed like he was

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like most of us, especially
those of us who travelled around

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a lot.
His father had been in the

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military.
He was actually born at Fort

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Lewis, here in Washington, not
far from where I live, and he

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was born in 1954.
His mother was a housewife and

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his father, John, was a military
officer.

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After his time here in
Washington and various other

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places, the family finally
settled in Quincy, IL, in 1967.

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Mike's father, John was in
Vietnam during Michael's

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adolescence.
Family believed that that he was

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engaged in clandestine
operations in the army and later

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after the fall of Saigon, he he
was possibly involved in it was

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called the Agency for
International Development, which

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I've never heard of, but
apparently that was something

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that was happening at in the
70s.

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But after he came back from his
military service, John became

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estranged from his family.
He also became he began to drink

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heavily and he died in 1982.
So while we've heard.

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Of his direction.
No, not specifically mentioned,

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however, and it doesn't say
anything about the fact that he

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was in in any way abusive or
anything like that.

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And that's what I was just going
to say is most of these cases we

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found that they, the perpetrator
had multiple horrendous

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experiences.
There's really nothing besides

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heavy drinking.
They don't say he was abusive or

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anything.
Like I say, there was no

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physical problem or anything,
and actually his dad was really

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not even in the home anymore
when he basically drank himself

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to death.
But it appears that Michael may

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have glorified his father's
Vietnam exploits, but still, it

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didn't.
It didn't really seem to connect

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at any point that I could see.
And no one in any of the

230
00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:41,400
investigative material I read
said anything about it being

231
00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:43,640
connected.
His mom said that his her son

232
00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:45,000
got along with the other
students.

233
00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:48,400
He was well adjusted.
He was a class officer, served

234
00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:50,480
on the student council, the
school paper, the yearbook

235
00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:52,000
staff.
Just a regular Joe, right?

236
00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:53,880
I mean, there was nothing,
nowhere.

237
00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:57,720
Like my dad, honestly.
Sounds like, yeah, about half of

238
00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:00,600
the country.
And what's even more interesting

239
00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:03,880
is he ranked in the 97th
percentile on his college

240
00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:07,080
aptitude test.
So he was a smart little cookie,

241
00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:11,600
too, which if we think about
some of the cases we've covered

242
00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:14,880
that's common, is that they're
sometimes a little bit too smart

243
00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:18,120
for what they can handle.
And a lot of times I've noticed,

244
00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:22,960
and this is scientific research
by Andrea, that many of these

245
00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:28,320
people are probably somehow
affected and unable to interact

246
00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:30,040
well because of their
intelligence.

247
00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:34,000
Some people, and this is not
here in any of the information,

248
00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:36,800
but I wonder, did he have some
sort of Asperger's or some sort

249
00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:40,320
of spectrum situation?
And not to say that all people

250
00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:43,120
on the spectrum will do anything
horrendous, but it does need to

251
00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:46,600
be a pretty, pretty strongly
present there that that these

252
00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:48,440
things go together.
And many, many people on the

253
00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:50,840
spectrum are very, very
intelligent.

254
00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:53,560
But this can affect their
ability to get along with

255
00:12:53,560 --> 00:12:55,600
people.
It appears that he did seem to

256
00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:57,120
get along pretty well with
people.

257
00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:01,360
So maybe he could fake it, maybe
he didn't really, I'm not sure.

258
00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:03,680
But he ended up receiving a
scholarship to music.

259
00:13:03,680 --> 00:13:06,280
He played the clarinet and
apparently was one of those

260
00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:09,920
promising students in the whole
school, and he got a scholarship

261
00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:13,520
to music and Milliken
University, which is in Decatur

262
00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:15,520
in Illinois.
I had never heard of it and I'm

263
00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:19,160
not sure if it's still a college
or, but apparently it's musical.

264
00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:22,760
And maybe that's why, because I
did play the clarinet, but

265
00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:26,880
nobody thought I was a prodigy
when I when I traded to go to to

266
00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:29,480
track in high school, my sister,
my sister, Nope.

267
00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:32,560
My teacher said, Yep, good luck,
you'll do much better there.

268
00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:37,680
She didn't really say that, but
she probably thought it anyway.

269
00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:41,760
So after Michael did the
university for two years, he

270
00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:44,240
joined the Marines.
He apparently was in the Marines

271
00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:46,920
for two years.
They were uneventful years.

272
00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:49,040
Nobody.
He wasn't ever accused of

273
00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:50,760
anything.
Nothing weird happened.

274
00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:52,840
And he had an honorable
discharge with the rank of

275
00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:54,800
Sergeant.
It's still, to me, is going

276
00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:56,280
where where are the big warning
flags?

277
00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:58,360
Where where are the what
happened?

278
00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:01,800
Anyway, after he got back from
the military, he enrolled in the

279
00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:05,680
Community College that I thought
was interesting because he

280
00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:09,680
enrolled in a Community College
versus a more advanced college.

281
00:14:09,680 --> 00:14:11,040
And I would think that he would
have had.

282
00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:15,120
Yeah, I would have thought he
would had some sort of stipend

283
00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:17,200
from the government, from his
service, but they don't say.

284
00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:22,040
What do they call it the?
GI Bill, yeah, they don't see

285
00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:25,040
anything about that.
But these, these pieces of

286
00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:30,360
information and resources were
pretty in detail about the other

287
00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:32,920
stuff.
I find this history really just

288
00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:35,160
going what, how, where are the
flags?

289
00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:36,880
Where are the flags?
Because usually there's

290
00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:40,280
everybody's, everybody's missed
500 red flags.

291
00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:44,200
Anyway, he did go to the
Community College and then he

292
00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:47,240
later did transfer to Quincy
University and he graduated in

293
00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:51,400
1979 with a near perfect 3.89
grade point average.

294
00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:55,120
So he had given up the clarinet
and he changed his major to

295
00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:57,800
chemistry and biology and wanted
to become a medical doctor.

296
00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:01,920
OK, cool.
So at that point he enrolled in

297
00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:04,880
the Southern Illinois University
School of Medicine and

298
00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:07,560
Carbondale and he was 24 at that
time.

299
00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:10,440
This is when he says they had
that he started having some real

300
00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:13,800
problems.
He his classmates had said they

301
00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:17,760
called him Gunner and I thought
it was related to his military

302
00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:19,760
experience.
But what they said is that he

303
00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:21,960
was someone who would do
anything to get ahead.

304
00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:26,360
Oh, interesting.
And at this point they all said

305
00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:28,480
that he seemed to be with a
drawn and a loner.

306
00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:31,080
So maybe this is a little peek
of some of the red flags.

307
00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:36,480
Still no explanation of why, but
now he's withdrawn in a loaner.

308
00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:40,360
And when he was younger, he was
more engaged and kind of sounded

309
00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:42,440
like a social butterfly a little
bit, Right, right, right.

310
00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:46,280
Some of his fellow students
suspected him of cheating in

311
00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:48,600
medical school.
That's a really great plan.

312
00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:53,320
They also said that his work had
seemed sloppy and cavalier.

313
00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:55,800
They thought it maybe it was
because he's away a lot working

314
00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:59,160
part time as a paramedic.
So he's in medical school

315
00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:02,840
working as a paramedic and and
that is not that uncommon, but I

316
00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:05,440
think it's more common for
nurses to work as paramedics and

317
00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:07,960
EMTs than doctors, but I don't
know that for sure.

318
00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:10,280
I don't either, but I know that
there were a lot of paramedics

319
00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:11,720
in my nursing school class.
Right.

320
00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:13,960
Exactly.
A few years later, one of his

321
00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:16,880
students noticed that Swango had
struck him as being immoral.

322
00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:19,480
This is his quote.
Immoral to the point of being a

323
00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:22,200
psychopath.
A little bigger red flag, right?

324
00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:25,480
Yeah, a little bit what?
What's going on?

325
00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:29,160
And apparently Swango had been
given the nickname Double O

326
00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:31,440
Swango.
I'm thinking, what does that

327
00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:33,400
even mean?
This is another quote from the

328
00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:35,360
same student.
It didn't say who he was the

329
00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:39,880
student, but this was a quote in
the same interview he was in and

330
00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:42,480
it said it was because of the
number of times that his reports

331
00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:45,720
indicated the patient was doing
well and then the patient was

332
00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:48,960
soon after die or have severe
problems.

333
00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:50,640
My gosh.
So he was doing something in

334
00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:55,200
medical school, probably.
So it seems after he failed a

335
00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:59,080
course, there was a a student
and faculty review board that

336
00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:01,160
was put together to review a
status.

337
00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:05,319
Because he was, he was not doing
all of the things that he needed

338
00:17:05,319 --> 00:17:07,520
to do.
One of the residents complained.

339
00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:11,760
I mean, the resident student,
not resident of the facility or

340
00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:13,920
anything.
Just to be clear, I complained

341
00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:16,560
that Swango had prepared a
report on a patient without ever

342
00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:19,880
examining her.
So he did a full report, he they

343
00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:23,160
were supposed to be doing the
actual clinical stuff.

344
00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:28,240
Swango denied it, and
unfortunately for Swango, A

345
00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:31,080
faculty member obtained the
patient's chart and there was no

346
00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:34,080
entry, as there should have been
to suggest that Swango had ever

347
00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:36,360
seen the patient.
Citing this in a series of other

348
00:17:36,360 --> 00:17:38,440
incidents, the doctor, Swango V.
Dismissed.

349
00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:41,520
Although he was only a month
away from graduation, so they

350
00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:44,920
must have been very concerned to
be putting all of this together

351
00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:48,960
at this point, some of them
trying to stop him from

352
00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:51,600
practicing.
So there were 8 members on this

353
00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:53,320
committee.
I mean, excuse me, there were

354
00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:56,400
nine members on this committee.
8 of them moved for his

355
00:17:56,400 --> 00:18:00,640
dismissal, 1 abstained.
Only one, John Murphy, who is a

356
00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:04,600
pathologist, was and was one of
Sundo's teachers, voted to give

357
00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:07,960
him another chance.
Oh, wow, Doctor Murphy said.

358
00:18:08,360 --> 00:18:10,440
He quoted.
I saved him from dismissal.

359
00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:13,040
The committee decided Swango
should spend an additional nine

360
00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:16,400
months in the program and would
have to repeat the OBGYN course.

361
00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:19,280
And then the following spring he
graduated, earning all

362
00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:22,040
satisfactory evaluations.
There's notation in a few

363
00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:25,280
sources that the school didn't
award letter grades, which I

364
00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:28,280
find bothering, but they just
sort of did a pass fail

365
00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:34,200
situation, which I guess is OK,
but I don't know that any of the

366
00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:37,200
facilities do that anymore.
But one thing that Doctor Murphy

367
00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:40,120
later said is that he had
misjudged Dr. Swango.

368
00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:43,720
And he said quoting, to be
honest, I felt very bad.

369
00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:46,280
I was one of his defenders.
I was wrong about him.

370
00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:50,320
I was duped.
So later on, Doctor Murphy was

371
00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:54,720
very much not happy that he had
saved him from being expelled

372
00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:58,680
from the program.
But here's the news.

373
00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:02,720
There was no indication of any
of this, this committee, these

374
00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:05,800
chart, these alleged charges,
things like that on Swango's

375
00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:08,680
medical school records.
So there was no indicator that

376
00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:10,800
this had happened.
And he applied for and was

377
00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:14,320
admitted to a residency in
neurosurgery at The Ohio State

378
00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:18,040
University in Columbus and he
began that program in 1983.

379
00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:20,360
This was a five year
appointment, but it was

380
00:19:20,360 --> 00:19:22,920
conditioned on satisfactory
completion of his first year

381
00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:26,880
internship in general surgery.
And that was a very good thing,

382
00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:30,640
because in the early spring of
1984, he received a letter from

383
00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:33,200
Ohio State saying that his
appointment was being terminated

384
00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:35,920
at the end of his first year.
The letter gave no reason for

385
00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:38,400
his termination.
I really wish I knew what it

386
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:40,160
was.
I didn't see it anywhere, what

387
00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:42,880
it could be, but I suspect it
was along the same lines as what

388
00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:45,480
had been happening in his his
medical program.

389
00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:49,040
He decided after he'd been asked
to leave that he returned to

390
00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:52,320
Quincy, the town he had been
living in with his family, and

391
00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:54,360
he knew he could find temporary
work as a paramedic.

392
00:19:54,360 --> 00:19:57,560
He was working for Adams County
Ambulance Service then he was

393
00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:00,000
going to apply for his license
and to practice medicine in

394
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:01,720
Illinois.
Most of the paramedics in Adams

395
00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:04,560
County had worked with him
before while he was in college

396
00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:10,480
and medical school, so a lot of
them knew him and one of the EM

397
00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:12,200
TS and OR paramedics.
I'm sorry.

398
00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:15,440
Paramedics said wait till you
meet Swango and they told.

399
00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:18,920
That to a Co worker named Mark
Krizepthakuski.

400
00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:21,280
I will now call him Mr. K from
now on.

401
00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:24,080
OK, because I'm not going to be
able to say that correctly.

402
00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:26,560
I don't even think I did this
time, but I definitely won't.

403
00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:30,040
Refutedly, Mr. K hadn't worked
with Swingo yet and he thought

404
00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:33,440
it was odd that a medical doctor
was working as a paramedic.

405
00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:37,480
I mean if if nothing else,
there's a huge pay difference.

406
00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:41,800
And Mr. K also knew that he had
been a university intern, I

407
00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:44,520
mean, the University Hospital
intern, and he just thought that

408
00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:47,520
was weird.
But when Swango arrived, Mr. K

409
00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:52,600
was struck again by he referred
to Swango's Beaver Cleaver looks

410
00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:56,680
a manner like the judge had.
So he had Swango apparently had

411
00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:59,560
the ability to charge patient
harm patients in the emergency

412
00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:03,680
room, the doctors, everybody.
And he was always eager to work

413
00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:07,400
extra hours and showing up.
This is something that I found

414
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:09,920
as a red flag.
He was often showing up to help

415
00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:12,200
with the scene of accidents,
even when he's off duty.

416
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:16,080
Oh yeah, that's weird.
Like you have a sorry a police

417
00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:19,800
scanner or something.
Yes, and this is not uncommon in

418
00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:22,240
a serial predator, as it were,
right.

419
00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:26,320
So I I thought, OK, there's
another red flag.

420
00:21:26,360 --> 00:21:28,800
We didn't have any in a long
time, but now apparently we have

421
00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:30,880
two or three.
You know, as, as we know, in

422
00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:35,120
most cases, ambulance workers
work 24 hour shifts and often

423
00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:37,000
they'll work out of a fire
station.

424
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:40,400
But in this case, they work from
a building that was attached to

425
00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:42,600
Quincy's Blessing Hospital.
It's called.

426
00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:44,360
It's just Quincy's Blessing
Hospital.

427
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:48,160
And they often were eating and
sleeping on the premises

428
00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:50,240
because, you know, they were
working 24 hours.

429
00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:53,280
One of the fellow workers noted
that in the early morning

430
00:21:53,360 --> 00:21:57,240
starting on September 14th, and
this, what was this is 83, I

431
00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:59,840
believe Kwango showed up with a
box of doughnuts and put them on

432
00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:02,880
the table and he just said, I
got you guys a big box of

433
00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:08,120
doughnuts and then he took one
and Mr. K took one and so did

434
00:22:08,120 --> 00:22:10,800
the three other paramedics.
Guess what happened?

435
00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:14,920
They got sick.
About half an hour later one of

436
00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:17,840
them became feeling nauseated
and flushed and dizzy and he had

437
00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:21,320
to run to the bathroom to vomit.
And then 15 minutes later the

438
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:24,360
other 3 were I'll with similar
symptoms.

439
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:27,160
Yes, he wasn't.
Yeah, that's what I figured.

440
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:30,800
I'm so surprised.
One of the paramedics, his name

441
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:33,560
was Brent unmissing.
He said what did you do?

442
00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:36,000
Mike poisoned us and he was
joking about it.

443
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:37,960
He was joking about it.
But is that called

444
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:42,760
foreshadowing?
And so this is crazy to me.

445
00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:45,120
So swang us.
It was reported that swang us at

446
00:22:45,120 --> 00:22:48,440
foreigners chair and shook his
head and he said no, I didn't

447
00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:50,080
you know I wouldn't do anything
like that.

448
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:52,880
But he picked up the box and
took the remaining Donuts and he

449
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:55,200
left the room.
All of the men who had had these

450
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,000
Donuts had gotten so violently,
they all they had to leave work.

451
00:22:58,200 --> 00:22:59,480
Wow.
Right.

452
00:22:59,960 --> 00:23:02,400
And so it sounds like Swangle
wasn't even on shift at that

453
00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:04,160
time.
He just brought the Donuts and

454
00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:08,280
the boys and his staff, I guess.
And the next day was a Friday

455
00:23:08,360 --> 00:23:11,280
and Swangle was assigned to work
at a high school football game.

456
00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:13,160
And the ambulance was always on
duty.

457
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:15,480
And I'm sure we've all seen that
where there's someone waiting at

458
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:18,880
these games just for when, not
just in case or for when

459
00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:22,480
somebody gets hurt some.
So he was on there and the

460
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:25,760
ambulance was just waiting.
His partner was this UN missing

461
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:27,720
again.
They noted that the game had

462
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:31,480
proceeded uneventfully, but just
before halftime, Swango offered

463
00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:36,800
his partner a soda and he
returned from the alleged snack

464
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:40,080
shop or something.
He had two sodas, but they were

465
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:42,720
in a paper cup.
But he gave it to Missing.

466
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:44,680
And missing probably didn't
think about it because a lot of

467
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:48,800
times those those soda and snack
places are run by moms and they

468
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:51,040
just fill up a cup and they hand
it off, no big deal.

469
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:54,000
And so he didn't even really
think about it, but he drank

470
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:57,320
part of it by the end of the
third quarter, and Missing was

471
00:23:57,360 --> 00:24:01,880
vomiting behind the ambulance.
Swango seemed concerned and

472
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:06,600
missing said and he questioned
his partner in minute date

473
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:08,160
detail about what he was
feeling.

474
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:12,160
So all right.
And I guess some people and it

475
00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:14,960
was just the two of them, so I
don't know, he was pretty the

476
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:17,000
other guy was pretty sick.
So he just went home.

477
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,480
He continued to be violently
I'll vomiting and severe

478
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:22,080
headaches and he stayed in bed
for three days.

479
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,080
I don't know at this point what
kind of flags are going off for

480
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:29,320
his partner there, but early in
the afternoon on September 27th,

481
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:33,080
Swango, those Co workers on duty
who's going for sodas, Yay, give

482
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:37,640
me one of your sodas.
And one of them, Greg Myers,

483
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:40,480
studied like a diet 7UP.
So a few minutes later they

484
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,880
reported that Myers saw Swango
come down the 3:45 sodas then

485
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:47,000
turn into the men's bathroom
when Myers took a 7UP.

486
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:49,520
I know, weird.
He noticed that it already been

487
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:51,320
opened.
So, he said.

488
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:53,280
Did you go in the bathroom and
whiz in mine?

489
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:56,440
Oh God.
I know, but he still drank about

490
00:24:56,440 --> 00:25:00,920
1/4 of the drink over ice.
I'm like if I had any any

491
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:02,360
thoughts like that, there's no
way.

492
00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:06,640
I don't even I don't bring
drinks or food into the bathroom

493
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:08,560
at all.
I certainly am not going to

494
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:10,760
bring other people's food and
drink into the bathroom.

495
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:13,000
I don't think I do either,
actually.

496
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,840
Not necessarily as a, not
necessarily as a conscious

497
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:17,480
decision.
But yeah, I don't think I can't.

498
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:18,920
I can't.
That's just weird.

499
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:20,920
Mine is one of the.
Very least I have a bathroom

500
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:23,480
where I have AI have a bathroom
where the toiletts own room.

501
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,960
Like maybe I might like bring a
soda instead of on the sink

502
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:28,680
counter and then going to the
toilet room right?

503
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:31,960
Maybe, but even then I probably
sat on my dresser before and

504
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:32,960
said it somewhere in the
bathroom.

505
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,200
Yeah, I don't prefer food or
beverage in a bathroom.

506
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:37,400
That's.
Weird.

507
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:40,880
There's a lot of reasons for
that and we can do an episode on

508
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,480
why I wouldn't want to do that
'cause I always feel about it

509
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:46,160
anyway.
But Myers took the 7UP and he

510
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:49,680
noticed it already been opened,
like I said, and he drank about

511
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:52,240
1/4 of it.
And he said he was soon overcome

512
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:56,200
by nausea and wracked by what he
called afterwards quotes the

513
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:58,400
worst vomiting I've ever
experienced.

514
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:00,480
Right.
So he went home to recover.

515
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:02,920
And in the meantime, I'm
thinking, what the heck are they

516
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:05,840
thinking about that?
He already, Myers already said,

517
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,160
Would you, isn't it?
And then he got really sick.

518
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:12,200
I mean, to me, I'd be going,
hey, something's happening here.

519
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:15,720
But he went to to recover, and a
few days later he got a call

520
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,760
from Swango.
He wanted to know every detail

521
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:22,760
of his symptoms exactly.
Creepy, Myers said.

522
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:27,000
Later on, when this all got kind
of uncovered, he said Swango's

523
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:31,600
interest seemed so acute that he
hung up Swango because Myers at

524
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:33,600
that point began to have
suspicion about him.

525
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:36,480
I'm like, you should have had
suspicions like 3 weeks ago,

526
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,120
dude.
But I think also one of the

527
00:26:39,120 --> 00:26:42,240
things that made this probably
go longer is a lot of times in

528
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:45,120
these shifts they rotate.
So they're not working with the

529
00:26:45,120 --> 00:26:48,920
same people all the time.
But also, I mean, in medical

530
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:51,760
field, work gets around pretty
fast to me.

531
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:55,360
I mean, I've never noticed a lot
of secrets being held, but

532
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:57,560
especially with something like
this anyway.

533
00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:00,360
But for some reason, it was
Then, a few weeks later, two

534
00:27:00,360 --> 00:27:02,120
other Paramex noticed.
That's my teeth.

535
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:05,200
Iced tea they had brewed had
become inexplicably sweet.

536
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:09,520
And Arsenic's sweet, right?
Thinking of flowers in the attic

537
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:10,800
and the candy.
I mean the.

538
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:12,960
Cookies.
Yes, Yes.

539
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:16,160
And they spoke to each other,
the two guys who had brewed this

540
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,080
stuff and and said, did you add
sugar?

541
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:19,680
No, I didn't have sugar.
Did you say I wet?

542
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:24,320
And then they were alarmed.
Finally, someone was alarmed by

543
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:27,160
the recent spate of illnesses,
so they both dumped their

544
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:31,160
glasses and begin searching for
some empty sugar packets,

545
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:34,240
thinking maybe somebody else had
sugared it because I guess they

546
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:36,360
had gone out for a run or left
the room or whatever.

547
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:40,080
They had never found any sugar
packets, however.

548
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:43,440
Swango poured the entire pitcher
of tea into a sink.

549
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:49,160
So later that afternoon, after
Swango had left on the ambulance

550
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:51,080
run, they noticed that his
duffel bag was open.

551
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:56,000
These guys saw a bag stamped
George Keller and Sons that had

552
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:58,440
fallen out of it.
Keller in their area is a large

553
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:02,640
lawn and garden store in Quincy.
And when they looked into the

554
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:06,160
Keller bag, they saw two
containers of Tarot Ant Killer.

555
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:10,320
The primary active ingredient in
Toro Ant Killer is arsenic.

556
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:16,560
Yes, sodium arsenate and arsenic
derivative, and it's in a

557
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:21,720
concentrated sugar solution,
which also explained some of the

558
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:23,160
sugar.
What a surprise.

559
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:27,960
One of the containers was empty,
so Swango had this in his bag.

560
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:32,760
One of the containers was empty.
And then the paramedics began to

561
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:36,480
talk to each other at this
point, and they began to recall

562
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,240
some odd behaviors, Swangos and
some odd remarks he had made

563
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:41,600
earlier in the summer.
They've been watching TV in the

564
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,040
quarters, and they heard their
new the news, accompanied by

565
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:47,800
graphic footage that a gunman
had stormed into McDonald's

566
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:50,480
restaurant in California,
killing 21 people.

567
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:53,160
And Swango, tell you what I
think of this.

568
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,480
Swango had leapt from his chair
and turned up the volume,

569
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:58,000
explaining.
That's just great.

570
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:00,040
I love it.
I wish I could have been there

571
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:01,440
to see it all.
And what?

572
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:03,000
The hell.
Exactly.

573
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:06,400
And later, he added, Every time
I think of a good idea, somebody

574
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:07,280
beats me to it.
Oh.

575
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:12,320
My God, what the hell?
Almost to you, I don't.

576
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:16,160
Know well.
And also, OK, picture this, I'm

577
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:19,200
sitting in a room with
paramedics and such like this

578
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,880
and one of them jumps up and
says this and I don't, you know,

579
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:26,760
clock it and go this.
And everyone's been getting sick

580
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:29,000
anytime he's been around.
Seems to me I'd put that

581
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,000
together, but at this point
they're still I would.

582
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:33,040
Seriously.
Be like dude that is so messed

583
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:34,720
up what the hell is wrong with
you?

584
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:37,520
Exactly.
But apparently nobody did.

585
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:41,120
For whatever reason.
The Mr. Ki referred to earlier

586
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:44,720
was often Swango's partner, and
he recalled that Swango

587
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:47,840
maintained a series of large
scrapbooks in which he pasted

588
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:51,800
articles from the newspaper and
magazines detailing incidents of

589
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,960
violent deaths, including
numerous accounts of poisoning.

590
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,440
And I'm like, what?
Why is no one saying anything?

591
00:29:58,440 --> 00:29:59,840
This is a common thread, isn't
it?

592
00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:02,480
Through these stories that we've
heard, especially in medicine,

593
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:05,120
nobody says anything.
And I don't know if they just

594
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:06,560
don't want to rock the boat or
what.

595
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:11,840
Mr. K said that Swangwood said
poisoning and such were a good

596
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:15,240
was a good way to kill people.
When Mr. K was interviewed later

597
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:17,560
about all of this during
investigations and things like

598
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:20,880
that, he said, you know,
ambulance attendant Lanter is

599
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:23,800
pretty rough and tumble.
He said to me this is a little

600
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:25,840
more than rough and tumble, but
he says it's rough and tumble.

601
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:27,920
You know, we're both in the
medical field, we've heard

602
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:29,560
stuff, but I've never heard this
stuff.

603
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:32,680
And if I did, I certainly would
have eyebrows raised and say

604
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:34,880
something.
But Mr. K also said he never

605
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,320
really knew if he should take
Swan Go seriously.

606
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,200
Because I think that's something
that can happen is when somebody

607
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,680
says something that wackadoodle,
maybe they're going to know that

608
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:47,400
no, that can't be.
And other cases we've looked at,

609
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:49,040
hasn't that been it?
No, that can't be.

610
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:50,600
I must have misunderstood.
No, you can't.

611
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:54,000
No, that doesn't make any sense.
And that's the problem is those

612
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:55,920
of us who are thinking
rationally and logically are

613
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:57,640
looking at these things.
No, no, it can't be it.

614
00:30:57,640 --> 00:30:59,880
That doesn't make any sense
anyway.

615
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:03,680
Mr. Kate continued in his
interview, saying that the more

616
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:06,840
he would verbalize about sort of
things, the more time they spent

617
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:07,880
together.
He said.

618
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:10,120
Mr. K said one time while they
were drinking coffee at the

619
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:14,440
hospital, the paramedics were
watching a public broadcast show

620
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:17,800
about a notorious killer named
Harry Lucas Lee.

621
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:21,440
Excuse me, Harry Lee Lucas.
And he was a serial killer.

622
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:25,720
And Swango said, in his typical
fashion, wouldn't that be great

623
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:29,080
to travel around the country
killing people, just moving on,

624
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:31,240
killing some more, a great
lifestyle.

625
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:35,560
In the hell.
I mean, seems a little off.

626
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:40,480
So much not for me.
A little off putting because,

627
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:43,240
you know, that seems like
something most of us don't want

628
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:44,960
to do again.
It was one of the things they're

629
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:46,480
just like, yeah, he's a little
wack a doodle.

630
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:49,200
Then he was good at his job.
That was that was the clincher.

631
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:51,040
I think he was good at being a
paramedic.

632
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:54,360
Mr. K and others recalled that
Swanga like to say the best

633
00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:57,160
thing about being a doctor.
Now this is going to be

634
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:00,080
inappropriate comment.
Swango said the best thing about

635
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,080
being a doctor to become out of
the emergency room with a hard

636
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:05,960
on to tell some parents their
kid had just died from a head

637
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:07,840
trauma.
Also talked about a sexual

638
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:10,640
fantasy of burying a hatchet in
the back of a female Co worker's

639
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:13,480
head in order to induce
seizures.

640
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:17,160
Now I don't know about you, but
this seems a little off to me.

641
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:19,480
This.
I don't know why they just took

642
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:21,640
this as a grain of salt or
something.

643
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:24,080
Again, I think maybe it's just
because they thought he was so a

644
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:27,520
whack a doodle, that he was just
blowing smoke and making a lot

645
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:29,800
of crazy statements that no one
could take seriously.

646
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:33,760
A week after the paramedics
found the Ant poison, Myers

647
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:36,960
brewed a pot of iced tea, adding
no sweetener.

648
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:40,040
He and another paramedic left on
the ambulance call, and when

649
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:42,440
they returned, Swango was not
willing or there.

650
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:45,960
Another paramedic said he had
seen Swango racing away from the

651
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:49,200
racing away in his car from the
hospital.

652
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:53,400
That brought really big red
flags because they went ahead

653
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:58,280
and delivered a sample of the
tea to William Gasser, who had

654
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:01,560
been a chemistry professor of
Swango's at Quincy University.

655
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:05,120
He was laboratory consultant at
the hospital, and a test

656
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:08,240
revealed the presence of the
sample of a heavy metal.

657
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:12,240
That heavy metal finding was
consistent with the presence of

658
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:14,800
arsenic.
So this tea that they had,

659
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:18,360
nobody drank, fortunately,
because they started to get

660
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:21,160
caught up with his history and
all.

661
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:24,560
So instead of drinking it, they
decided to take it to his test.

662
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:27,560
And their suspicions were true.
Like I said, the arsenic was

663
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,280
found in the drink.
I know.

664
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:35,920
And I can't even imagine how I
would feel or think about this.

665
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:38,800
I mean, hindsight is 2020,
right?

666
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:42,400
So people think about it and
they go, Oh my gosh, he said

667
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:43,880
this and Oh my goodness, he said
that.

668
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:47,080
And oh heavens, wow, putting
these things all together, now

669
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:48,960
we're seeing the flags.
Especially at that point.

670
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:51,800
I can't imagine the paramedics
weren't talking to each other by

671
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:56,880
now for having enough.
But it it just boggles the mind.

672
00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:01,640
On October 26th, Swango got a
call at work asking him to stop

673
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:04,000
by the Adams County Sheriff's
Office to supply some

674
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:07,160
information.
Now Swango probably didn't think

675
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:10,639
this was too weird because he
had applied to become a deputy

676
00:34:10,639 --> 00:34:13,920
coroner and the sheriff implied
he was about to get the job.

677
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:18,440
Interesting it is.
Instead, when he arrived, he was

678
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:22,679
arrested and read his rights.
Finally.

679
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:24,560
They didn't even have to go get
him.

680
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:27,440
They just said, yeah, come on
you crazy dude, come, come and

681
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:30,239
apply for your job.
And then he gave permission for

682
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:33,679
police to search his apartment,
which is like, that is weird.

683
00:34:33,679 --> 00:34:37,239
Especially when the police
entered the apartment, they

684
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:39,840
found a book with skull and
crossbones on the cover lying on

685
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:43,560
the table in the midst of
needles and bottles.

686
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:48,639
The book this is this is funny.
I mean ironically funny, not ha

687
00:34:48,639 --> 00:34:51,440
ha funny.
But the book was said to be

688
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:55,373
popular with paramilitary
enthusiasts on a manual on do it

689
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:07,600
So the police report stated as
they entered and searched this

690
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:12,040
apartment, an entire mini lab
setup was observed and they they

691
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:14,600
found numerous chemicals,
suspected poisons and poisonous

692
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:17,840
compounds.
So the police of course seized

693
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:21,440
the book and various pest
poisons along with numerous

694
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:24,600
containers to her Ant killer.
The Ant killer was filled to

695
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:27,000
different levels.
So obviously it's been being

696
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:28,920
used.
And they also found the

697
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:31,360
chemicals.
Insurgents I mentioned a gallon

698
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:34,880
of sulfuric acid supply of
Castor beans, which is the raw

699
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:36,680
material for what you said
before.

700
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:41,200
Bryson Yes.
So all those just as an

701
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:44,080
apartment and he said, OK, sure,
go take a look.

702
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:47,440
What the heck did he think that?
I don't understand how he didn't

703
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:49,720
think they were going to put
these things together but in the

704
00:35:49,720 --> 00:35:50,680
mean.
Time He probably thought he was

705
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:51,920
smarter than them.
That would be my guess.

706
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,600
He probably thought that he was
just simply smarter than.

707
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:56,920
Them most commonly that's the
case, isn't it?

708
00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:58,840
Yeah.
Swango noted that he'd collected

709
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:03,000
articles on the notorious 1978
assassination in London of a

710
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:07,680
Bulgarian political dissident
who it looked like died after

711
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:10,480
being pricked with a ricin
tipped umbrella.

712
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:16,040
Now, it doesn't take much ricin
to kill someone, as you sounds

713
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:20,080
like you may know, but ricin is.
If we don't have that listed on

714
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:23,520
topic, we definitely should.
Yeah, but the other thing is

715
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:25,400
they're not done in the
apartment yet.

716
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:31,400
They confiscated a small arsenal
of weapons, including this guy I

717
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:36,400
just don't even know, including
a Mossberg 12 gauge pump shotgun

718
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:40,360
with combat stock and a llama.
I don't know this brand but a

719
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:44,880
357 magnum revolver.
When they went to check out the

720
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:48,080
local library that he had
recently been in because I guess

721
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:50,000
they had seen the book that he
checked out.

722
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:53,240
It was about a Doctor Who
murdered his wife and a novel

723
00:36:53,240 --> 00:36:55,440
about the poisoning of a city's
food supply.

724
00:36:55,720 --> 00:36:59,320
So they went to the the library
to find out if he had any other

725
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:02,040
books that he checked out
because this again, was in the

726
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:04,400
in the 80s.
So it's not like they could just

727
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:07,240
surf the way, right?
Like we tend to have given all

728
00:37:07,240 --> 00:37:09,960
of this.
Oh my goodness, He had another

729
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:11,080
trial.
What?

730
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:12,520
Why?
I wondered.

731
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:16,000
I know.
So the trial began on April 22nd

732
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:18,600
in 1985 in the Adams County
Courthouse.

733
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:21,040
Swingo waived his right to a
jury trial.

734
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:22,960
Wait, is he a?
Doctor at this point or is he

735
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:24,840
still a paramedic?
He's a doctor.

736
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:28,120
He's a doctor, but he got kicked
out of the last bit of his

737
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:31,280
program but then finished it.
But then when he moved to

738
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:34,200
Illinois, had to apply for
licensure in Illinois, which he

739
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:35,800
did not have.
Yeah.

740
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:39,200
So that's where he sits.
So he was in Adams Court County

741
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:41,440
Courthouse.
And guess who the judge was?

742
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:44,800
Judge Cashman Swangle waived his
right to a jury trial, as I

743
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:46,640
mentioned.
And one of the reasons people do

744
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:49,720
that in the service situation is
because jury will be emotionally

745
00:37:49,720 --> 00:37:52,080
swayed.
They will often have a better

746
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:55,360
chance of not being just
convicted by a motion.

747
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:59,000
They'll be more likely to be
convicted by actual evidence if

748
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:01,760
they have a judge.
Because the the prosecution case

749
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:04,240
was straightforward, but it was
pretty circumstance

750
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:07,240
circumstantial because no one
who actually seen Swango

751
00:38:07,240 --> 00:38:08,800
administering points into
anyone.

752
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:13,400
There is no apparent motive and
actually, Swanko said the

753
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:15,960
paramedics were his friends.
And I'm like, well, what would

754
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:18,480
be doing to enemies?
Yeah, no kidding.

755
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:20,520
That was exactly my thought.
I was like, gosh, if they're

756
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:22,720
your friends, I'd not let them
know how you treat people that

757
00:38:22,720 --> 00:38:24,360
aren't your friends.
No kidding.

758
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:27,680
During the trial, the paramedics
described the events that have

759
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:30,960
preceded their sudden illnesses
and their symptoms, and there

760
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:34,760
were some forensic scientists
from the Illinois State Crime

761
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:38,480
Lab that testified.
Initial lab reports showed the

762
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:41,720
president presence of arsenic in
both the T sample collection in

763
00:38:41,720 --> 00:38:44,800
the hospital and and the hair
samples taken from a paramedic

764
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:47,600
who to eating a doughnut and had
drunk the tainted soda.

765
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:52,000
So even though they couldn't put
the syringe or the powder in

766
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:56,960
Swango's hands, they did find
that these folks had it in their

767
00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:01,080
bodies because he, Swango also
had the Ant killer.

768
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:03,320
You know, it didn't take a
rocket scientist to fill it

769
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:05,960
figure this out.
They did interview a clerk at

770
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:09,000
the Keller store where he had
gotten the rat or the Ant poison

771
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:12,240
and the other chemicals.
They identified Swango and he

772
00:39:12,240 --> 00:39:15,800
was wearing a pair uniform and
he had bought 6 bottles of Tarot

773
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:18,320
Ant Killer.
Later on, Swangle say, yeah, but

774
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:22,800
I had a lot of ants in my house.
Oh sure, a lot of ants in my

775
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:24,040
house.
That's a lot of ants.

776
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:27,720
You realize they can test your
floor to see if there was that

777
00:39:27,720 --> 00:39:31,560
poison on it, right?
There's some more about that in

778
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:33,880
a minute.
But as the trial proceeded,

779
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:36,880
Judge Cashman was struck by
Swango's neat appearance again.

780
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:41,920
I mean, Swango did not look like
the person that he he was.

781
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:46,840
He was a suit and a tie.
He was calm and he said he was.

782
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:50,440
Swango was even polite to the
judge and others in the

783
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:52,640
courtroom.
He had his mother and a

784
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:55,160
girlfriend who attended the
trial every day.

785
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:58,960
And he Swango emphatically deny
poisoning anyone.

786
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:03,000
And he took copious notes and
conferred often with his lawyer,

787
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:06,400
which makes me laugh because the
lawyer really needs to know what

788
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:08,320
your opinion is.
Though his lawyer was a public

789
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:13,160
defender and Cook had been.
A high school teacher, The

790
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:16,560
cornerstone of Swango's argument
appeared to be that he had

791
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:19,440
bought the bottles of Toro Ant
Killer Combat the ants

792
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:21,080
infestation like we talked
about.

793
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:23,520
But it was at what he had
encountered as previous

794
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:27,840
apartments in Columbus, OH, and
Springfield, IL, and at his

795
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:30,640
current residence in Quincy.
At one point after his arrest,

796
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:34,040
when he'd returned from visiting
his brother in Florida, he said

797
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:37,200
there were so many ants in his
apartment that he'd call Cook,

798
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:39,680
his lawyer, to come witness the
ants.

799
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:44,600
Oh wow.
And Cook said, no, I can't be a

800
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:46,080
witness.
He said.

801
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:49,560
He said call the exterminator.
I'm sure he followed that up

802
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:52,400
with dude.
So Swango called the

803
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:54,520
exterminator.
But at the trial, the

804
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:57,360
exterminator said these ants he
had encounter encountered in

805
00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:00,200
Swango's apartments were a type
event common in Florida and the

806
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:03,280
rest of the South, but rarely in
Quincy's harsh winter

807
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:05,880
acclimates.
Oh my God.

808
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:10,760
Not only were they rarely in
Quincy's harsh, but they were

809
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:12,880
never endorsed.
Wow.

810
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:16,160
So that affected the case
anyway.

811
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:19,840
At the conclusion of the trial,
Judge Cashman pronounced Swango

812
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:23,400
guilty on six of the seven
counts acquitting him of

813
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:26,040
poisoning Mr. Kay.
Two symptoms after eating the

814
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:28,320
doughnut, he said, appeared
inconclusive.

815
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:31,280
They weren't strong enough to
attach to the doughnut itself,

816
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:35,160
but Mr. K had also been poisoned
by other liquid and stuff like

817
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:38,200
that, so he was probably still
had a poisoning to Mr. K.

818
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:41,200
He was guilty on 6 of the 7
counts, and the judge said

819
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:44,160
Swango's testimony seemed
contrived and fabricated.

820
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:48,080
Well, probably because he was
lying as part of the The judge

821
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:51,000
said the most compelling
evidence was the disclosure of

822
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:55,880
the out of place ants.
Because if that were the case,

823
00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:58,680
then it doesn't make any sense.
And also like there was.

824
00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:01,240
Everything else he said, right?
Exactly.

825
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:04,400
And there was a a bottle of the
match, I mean, excuse me, of the

826
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:08,800
rat golly, I keep on and put
rats in here of the Ant poison.

827
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:11,960
The bottle of the Ant poison
matched exactly the level of

828
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:15,440
arsenic found in the iced tea,
so it was half empty.

829
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:18,960
And what was in there matched
exactly the other half that was

830
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:22,040
found in the iced tea.
Strangely, Swango tended to be

831
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:25,360
present president when the
poisoning occurred and he had

832
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:28,680
poisoning double bag so seems
connected.

833
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:33,640
And the judge, the judge said a
couple times the things that he

834
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:37,600
thought was really weird was
that Swango had always shown a

835
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:41,640
more of a curiosity and interest
in the symptoms of his victims,

836
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:44,040
which as we talked about
earlier, each one of the victims

837
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:46,800
had said he was really
interested in my symptoms.

838
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:49,760
Like so interested that the one
guy hung up on him.

839
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:53,120
The judge said he felt like
Swango wanted to take all of the

840
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:54,800
victims just to the edge of
death.

841
00:42:55,040 --> 00:43:01,040
They were like a lab experience.
And August 23rd in 1985, Swango

842
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:04,160
again was his own principal
character witness.

843
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:08,840
And he delivered a lengthy,
often eloquent that he would

844
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:12,520
give to be given the sentence of
probation so he could use his

845
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:13,960
medical skills to help.
Us.

846
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:16,640
How lovely.
After just started gathering,

847
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:19,800
I'm just putting that in there.
I don't know what he did, but

848
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:22,960
Swango also said, this is this
is the part I love.

849
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:27,000
This is a quote, Swango said.
What can I do, Judge Cashman,

850
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:30,280
and how can I work with you and
the court to convince and show

851
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:33,720
you that I still have great
wealth of good and caring to

852
00:43:33,720 --> 00:43:36,720
return to the society and that I
should be allowed with your

853
00:43:36,720 --> 00:43:40,680
trust and the people's trust to
reserve that resume, that

854
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:46,880
service to society and right?
Judge Cashman was clearly

855
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:49,600
baffled, he said, by the nature
of the crime and the seemingly

856
00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:51,880
earnest, well-intentioned young
doctor before him.

857
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:56,160
He said to Swango.
He said, the judge said, I quite

858
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:59,360
frankly have come to like you as
an individual, Doctor Swango, it

859
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:01,680
makes it even more difficult to
understand why you would do

860
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:04,400
these things.
He was sentenced again to five

861
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:07,640
years in the state penitentiary,
which was more serious than the

862
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:10,320
jail he had been in, and it was
the maximum, the term for the

863
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:13,040
battery, which is what he was
convicted for.

864
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:18,440
It was wild Swango.
This, this boggles my mind too.

865
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:22,160
During the trial and sentencing,
Swango actually applied in

866
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:25,640
person for and obtained a
position in northern Ohio as an

867
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:28,400
emergency room physician while
he was waiting for sentencing.

868
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:33,200
This act, right and this action
was in violation of the terms of

869
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:36,200
his bail bond, which required
him to stay in Illinois except

870
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:39,560
for court approved trips.
So he went to apply in Ohio, got

871
00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:43,640
accepted and hired, but revoked
his bail bond because he was out

872
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:48,720
of the state, which was wild.
Anyway, the other thing, this is

873
00:44:48,720 --> 00:44:50,600
going to boggle your mind as
well.

874
00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:54,400
Michael was hired.
This was the emergency room

875
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:58,880
director in Ohio and said
Michael was hired by Robert

876
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:01,360
Holler, the second, a regional
vice president of national

877
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:04,520
emergency services, which
recruited emergency room doctors

878
00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:07,560
for several hospitals.
During the sentencing hearing,

879
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:10,360
Holler testified as character
witness, or Swango.

880
00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:16,200
Get this, He said Swango had, at
four different hospitals had

881
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:18,440
received above standard
evaluations.

882
00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:21,040
He said that he had dismissed
him only when the news of the

883
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:25,560
trial hit the papers because he
said, if it were not for bad

884
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:28,080
publicity, he would hire Swango
again.

885
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:36,200
No kidding.
And then the prosecutors was

886
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:38,920
stunned, it said.
And he said even though he's

887
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:41,040
been convicted, you would rehire
him?

888
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:43,600
Tyler said yes.
If it were up to me, I would.

889
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:46,960
I feel like if there's a whole
background check situation that

890
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:50,280
goes with hiring doctors.
No kidding.

891
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:55,120
Swango's lawyer questioned
Tyler, too, and he said, again,

892
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:57,680
I would personally have no
problems at all, he said.

893
00:45:57,680 --> 00:45:59,960
It's the public that comes to
the hospital, but find it, you

894
00:45:59,960 --> 00:46:03,160
know it would create a problem.
What?

895
00:46:03,720 --> 00:46:06,320
My God, I wouldn't ingest
anything.

896
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:09,000
I wouldn't allow an IVI mean,
what would be the point of even

897
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:12,360
being in the hospital?
I would not allow any oh is

898
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:16,080
wackadoodle anyway because of
the things that came up in the

899
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:18,440
court.
Trial in Quincy, Swango's

900
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:20,920
earlier behavior in Ohio is re
examined.

901
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:23,720
Authorities asked the Ohio State
University of Police for help in

902
00:46:23,720 --> 00:46:26,040
looking into Stango's Swango's
background.

903
00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:30,320
They said that investigation
took a life of its own on the

904
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:33,440
life of its own.
So some of this just makes me

905
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:36,720
laugh, although it should make
me cry probably it does that too

906
00:46:36,720 --> 00:46:38,400
a little.
The following February.

907
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:41,960
So he was, he was convicted to
this in September, I believe.

908
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:44,640
And the following February,
excuse me.

909
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:48,040
And the following October they
found some more stuff that was

910
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:49,680
going on.
University of Police learned

911
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:52,800
that Swango had a storage locker
in Columbus and they requested

912
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:56,520
Franklin County, Ohio, Assistant
Prosecuting Attorney named

913
00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:59,480
Edward Morgan, just for
information, to help prepare and

914
00:46:59,720 --> 00:47:01,760
execute a search warrant for the
locker.

915
00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:04,480
Because they already found that
all that stuff in his apartment,

916
00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:05,880
right?
So now they're going, what else

917
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:08,520
could he be doing?
Well, what you might be

918
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:12,360
surprised to find out is the
contents included an M16

919
00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:17,760
firearm, clips and 200 rounds of
blank machine gun ammunition.

920
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:22,520
That is OK something.
Right.

921
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:26,600
Another thing that is wild is
the police at the university

922
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:30,040
tried to maintain a discreet and
low profile investigation.

923
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:32,920
I'm like, what the fuck for?
What do you, who are you trying

924
00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:36,360
to protect?
But Morgan and his investigators

925
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:40,120
became increasingly concerned by
mounting evidence to Swango also

926
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:43,040
that he might be linked to a
series of deaths at Ohio State

927
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:45,120
Hospital.
So they're like, no go man,

928
00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:49,240
we're doing this investigation.
Morgan's investigation was later

929
00:47:49,240 --> 00:47:52,760
summarized by him to report that
the Franklin County prosecuting

930
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:55,760
attorney established that Doctor
Swango had been warned by Ohio

931
00:47:55,760 --> 00:48:00,720
State University officials in
early January of 1984 that his

932
00:48:00,720 --> 00:48:03,560
performance was unsatisfactory.
Unless it improved, his

933
00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:05,760
appointment would not be renewed
for a second year.

934
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:09,200
This is what Morgan, the
investigator thought is that the

935
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:13,040
set back to Swango and his
career might have triggered a

936
00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:15,720
violent reaction from Swango.
So we were talking about what

937
00:48:15,720 --> 00:48:17,400
were the red flags and how did
this happen.

938
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:20,400
They think that maybe that was
it by him being told forget

939
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:23,000
about it, you can't do this.
In the following days and weeks,

940
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:25,840
the hospital recorded a number
of mysterious deaths and near

941
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:27,960
fatalities.
This was in 1984.

942
00:48:28,240 --> 00:48:30,360
I wanted to explain a little bit
about one of them.

943
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:33,800
One that I'm going to mention
right now occurred on the night

944
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:38,240
of January 14th and witnesses
noticed and recalled that Doctor

945
00:48:38,240 --> 00:48:41,720
Swango went to draw blood from a
young woman named Cynthia McGee.

946
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:44,680
And she had rest recently been
transferred to the hospital from

947
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:46,480
out of state.
And she'd been hit by a car

948
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:48,520
while riding her bike at the
University of Illinois.

949
00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:51,440
So I imagine this hospital must
have been a trauma level 1.

950
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:54,600
So she got transferred.
I that's my guess anyway.

951
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:57,000
She'd been hit by a car, by
riding a bike, she'd been

952
00:48:57,000 --> 00:48:59,200
unconscious.
But by the time of her transfer,

953
00:48:59,200 --> 00:49:01,480
she appeared to be aware of her
environment, looking around and

954
00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:03,440
said a few words.
About midnight.

955
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:06,680
Half an hour later, Doctor
Swangle left the room he had

956
00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:09,400
been in to draw blood.
And then about 1/2 an hour later

957
00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:10,680
he left.
And that's how that was

958
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:12,080
interesting too.
The doctor was.

959
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:16,280
Say, I was just going to say I
would be very curious to know if

960
00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:20,640
that was normal practice in 1985
or whatever urine is, because

961
00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:23,360
yeah, no doctors are drawing
blood in the hospital these

962
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:24,560
days.
Exactly.

963
00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:27,960
And so that seemed odd, and a
nurse discovered the McGee had a

964
00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:32,040
pale, dusty, bluish look and
alerted a doctor and called a

965
00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:33,680
code blue.
Of course, that required

966
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:36,800
emergency response.
Doctor Swango didn't respond

967
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:40,240
what other doctors did.
McGee was pronounced dead and a

968
00:49:40,240 --> 00:49:45,160
subsequent autopsy cited cardio
pulmonary arrest due to insipid

969
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:47,080
pneumonia.
The nurse on duty later

970
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:49,800
expressed surprise at the
autopsy report because she had

971
00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:53,160
seen no signs of pneumonia.
So that was weird.

972
00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:58,040
And then this was that have been
that was at the Ohio hospital.

973
00:49:59,240 --> 00:50:01,680
That's right, secret a secret
pneumonia.

974
00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:05,920
It has no symptoms.
Anyway, so six days later, a

975
00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:08,160
group of doctors were doing
their rounds and it was about

976
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:11,760
6:00 and they came to check on
several patients sharing a room.

977
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:16,120
One of them was 21 year old auto
accident victim who was called

978
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:18,600
Richard de Long in case you want
to know that later.

979
00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:21,640
And he was in a coma but had
recently been taken out of

980
00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:23,760
intensive care after his
condition stabilized.

981
00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:26,600
Apparently he was breathing
oxygen through a tracheostis me

982
00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:29,960
tube and he must have come off
his vent and such seemed to be

983
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:32,160
resting comfortably and had been
checked by the respiratory

984
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:33,960
therapist and everybody was
going all right, well, we'll

985
00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:35,840
just wait for him to recover
basically.

986
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:39,240
And he was in a multi bedroom,
which was was something

987
00:50:39,240 --> 00:50:44,280
different to nowadays in in a
basically a step down from ICU.

988
00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:49,440
Anyway, apparently Swanga walked
over to the bed and said to the

989
00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:51,720
respiratory therapist, I think
your patient's dead.

990
00:50:51,720 --> 00:50:54,920
They went to resuscitate him and
nothing worked.

991
00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:58,400
Another Doctor Who was present
later was present said later.

992
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:00,960
It was a surprise to us that he
was in stable condition and one

993
00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:04,360
evening when we went on rounds
he wasn't breathing anymore.

994
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:06,880
Yeah, that's wild.
Yeah, it was wild.

995
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:10,040
And so Doctor Swango, and I'm
not even really sure how Swango

996
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:13,560
got involved in this case, but
he notified Delong's family of

997
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:17,200
his death and had talked to the
guy's wife on the phone.

998
00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:20,080
When the family arrived, Doctor
Swango, in the presence of

999
00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:22,960
another doctor, told them that
Delong had died from a heart

1000
00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:26,080
attack.
No autopsy was performed, right?

1001
00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:28,880
Delong's wife said she actually
requested one in writing, but

1002
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:33,160
the coroner office said they had
no request on record, not until

1003
00:51:33,160 --> 00:51:36,400
almost a year and a half later,
as a result of this inquiry with

1004
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:40,360
Morgan, because Swango was
starting to become notorious for

1005
00:51:40,640 --> 00:51:43,240
the poisonings and also weird
things happening.

1006
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:47,920
They exhumed Delong's body and
the coroner found a wad of

1007
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:50,320
surgical gauze in Delong's
trachea.

1008
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:54,000
Oh my God.
Oh, he.

1009
00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:57,040
Basically suffocated the guy.
I mean, he was.

1010
00:51:57,120 --> 00:52:01,120
So this guy's in a coma.
And apparently Swango stuffed a

1011
00:52:01,120 --> 00:52:04,000
piece of gauze in his trachea
and made him die.

1012
00:52:04,680 --> 00:52:07,120
The cause of death was changed
to homicide.

1013
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:09,800
Two other deaths, it doesn't end
here.

1014
00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:12,320
Two other deaths were regardless
suspicious.

1015
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:15,400
But it was the case of a patient
named Rena Cooper.

1016
00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:18,560
And she was 69 years old in
mental hospital suffering from

1017
00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:21,800
low back pain.
That caused some concern.

1018
00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:25,720
And so she went to the hospital,
had been inpatient.

1019
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:29,280
And on the 7th, just before
seven, it was reported Missus

1020
00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:32,520
Cooper, who was sharing a room
with another patient, as is

1021
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:35,240
typical apparently at that
hospital, was served dinner and

1022
00:52:35,240 --> 00:52:37,480
given some painkillers.
OK, seems reasonable.

1023
00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:40,800
She's got back pain.
Doctors, including Swango,

1024
00:52:41,200 --> 00:52:43,520
arrived on the rounds between
8:00 and 9:00 PM.

1025
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:46,760
And there was a student nurse
Carolyn, who came into the room

1026
00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:50,400
shortly after 9 and saw Doctor
Swango standing alone by Missus

1027
00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:52,600
Cooper's bed with his back
turned.

1028
00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:55,000
And she said it looked like he
was putting something in his IV,

1029
00:52:55,120 --> 00:52:57,320
her IV.
She told that to investigators

1030
00:52:57,320 --> 00:52:59,400
later.
It was almost a year later this

1031
00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:01,760
came out when this investigation
happened.

1032
00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:05,280
And she said I knew she, he was
putting something in.

1033
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:09,720
You can just tell, she said.
But she left but stood nearby.

1034
00:53:10,080 --> 00:53:13,680
And two minutes later, she heard
the bed rails rattling in the

1035
00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:16,600
room and Missus Cooper's
roommate screaming when Barry

1036
00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:18,200
entered.
Barry was the nurse.

1037
00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:20,240
The roommate told her there's
something wrong.

1038
00:53:20,240 --> 00:53:23,040
Missus Cooper was turning blue
and White wasn't breathing, so

1039
00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:24,600
the nurse immediately called for
help.

1040
00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:26,520
Other nurses doctors came
rushing in the room and called

1041
00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:28,880
the code blue.
The student nurse who is the one

1042
00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:31,880
who went in initially to help
told them she had just seen

1043
00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:34,440
Doctor Swango injecting
something into Mrs. Coopers IV.

1044
00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:37,960
But she said later they didn't
believe me, maybe especially was

1045
00:53:37,960 --> 00:53:39,760
a student nurse and they
thought, well, you don't know

1046
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:43,160
what he was doing.
And so that's why she reiterated

1047
00:53:43,160 --> 00:53:44,760
a year later that's what she had
seen.

1048
00:53:44,800 --> 00:53:47,560
And this they believed because
they were doing an

1049
00:53:47,560 --> 00:53:50,600
investigation.
So things are getting sketchier

1050
00:53:50,600 --> 00:53:51,840
and sketchier by the minute,
right?

1051
00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:55,880
It's like, but I can still see
how there would be some trouble

1052
00:53:55,880 --> 00:53:59,440
linking these things just right
until all the cards started

1053
00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:02,480
stacking up.
I remember this hospital didn't

1054
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:05,520
know what had happened before.
These are still sort of

1055
00:54:05,520 --> 00:54:08,600
coincidentally guns.
There is an attending doctor,

1056
00:54:08,720 --> 00:54:11,640
Arnold Brakel, and he was the
head of the surgery residence at

1057
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:15,000
Ohio State and he later
described Mrs. Cooper Coopers

1058
00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:17,680
condition said.
At the time we saw her, she was

1059
00:54:17,680 --> 00:54:19,200
not breathing, she was
unconscious.

1060
00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:21,840
She had no movements to stimuli,
even deep pain.

1061
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:25,440
She didn't even, he said, as I
recall, have any reflexes.

1062
00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:28,240
A condition he said, that was
consistent with a paralyzing

1063
00:54:28,240 --> 00:54:30,960
drug, which should not have been
in her system, right?

1064
00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:36,680
Another side event, if it will.
A nurse's aide saw Swango emerge

1065
00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:39,840
from room 4 days, 4 doors away
and around the corner from a

1066
00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:41,240
commotion in Missus Cooper's
room.

1067
00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:43,880
So while all of this was
happening, Missus Cooper was

1068
00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:46,040
dying.
Swango was in another room.

1069
00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:49,120
The nurse said he had a goofy
look on his face like a kid with

1070
00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:52,760
his fingers in the cookie jar.
And he said he had the big grin

1071
00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:54,760
on his face.
She thought it was weird.

1072
00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:57,480
She went into the room that
Doctor Swango had come out of

1073
00:54:57,480 --> 00:55:01,120
and found a large syringe, its
plunger fully depressed, lying

1074
00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:03,640
in the sink.
This person was an aide.

1075
00:55:03,640 --> 00:55:06,200
And she summoned a nurse and
pointed out the syringe.

1076
00:55:06,480 --> 00:55:09,520
So the nurse picked it up with a
paper towel, good, wrapped it,

1077
00:55:10,080 --> 00:55:11,760
wrapped it up, put it underneath
the sink there.

1078
00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:14,400
And she looked at me and said,
OK, I'm putting this right here.

1079
00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:17,440
You're my witness.
And then she, the nurse, took

1080
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:21,160
the wrapped syringe and put it
in attache case, briefcase, as

1081
00:55:21,160 --> 00:55:23,560
it were at this time, and gave
it to the head nurse on the

1082
00:55:23,560 --> 00:55:24,920
floor.
And the head nurse discussed it

1083
00:55:24,920 --> 00:55:28,160
with the attending neurosurgeon.
And that's where it went.

1084
00:55:28,360 --> 00:55:32,040
So hold that thought.
And then it's happening again.

1085
00:55:32,040 --> 00:55:35,720
While Missus Cooper was dying in
Missus Cooper's room, the

1086
00:55:35,720 --> 00:55:39,360
medical team did revive her by
administering oxygen, but she

1087
00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:42,200
couldn't speak.
And she had a breathing tube

1088
00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:44,960
down her throat, of course.
But through gestures, she

1089
00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:47,320
indicated something.
And a nurse gave her a pencil

1090
00:55:47,320 --> 00:55:49,880
and a paper.
And the nurse said she wrote,

1091
00:55:49,960 --> 00:55:52,000
Someone came in and put
something in my IV.

1092
00:55:52,520 --> 00:55:54,520
And remember, the student nurse
had said he was putting

1093
00:55:54,520 --> 00:55:58,200
something in the ID.
Missus Cooper herself later

1094
00:55:58,200 --> 00:56:00,320
recalled that she was unsure
whether the person was a man or

1095
00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:01,760
one.
She just knew that they were

1096
00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:06,240
blonde and looked to her like a
white Angel of death.

1097
00:56:06,520 --> 00:56:10,200
Oh no.
What a horrifying experience.

1098
00:56:10,640 --> 00:56:13,200
No kidding.
I don't know that I could ever

1099
00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:15,960
trust a medical facility.
Yeah, seriously.

1100
00:56:15,960 --> 00:56:18,600
Anyway, she misses.
Cooper said immediately after

1101
00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:21,760
that she felt a blackness in her
left hand, which I don't know

1102
00:56:21,760 --> 00:56:24,280
what that means exactly, but she
said it felt like a blackness in

1103
00:56:24,280 --> 00:56:26,040
her left hand where the IV was
inserted.

1104
00:56:26,360 --> 00:56:30,160
And the feeling went up her left
arm and then to the right side

1105
00:56:30,160 --> 00:56:32,160
of her body, and she became
frightened, she said.

1106
00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:33,720
And she discovered she couldn't
speak.

1107
00:56:33,960 --> 00:56:36,160
She began to shake the bed rail
to make noise and attract

1108
00:56:36,160 --> 00:56:38,600
attention, and then she lost
consciousness.

1109
00:56:39,120 --> 00:56:43,040
How scary.
Oh, my gosh, Oh, my goodness.

1110
00:56:43,080 --> 00:56:45,680
Edward Morgan, who's doing this
investigation a year and a half

1111
00:56:45,680 --> 00:56:48,000
later, learned that during the
week of Missus Cooper's

1112
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:51,360
mysterious respiratory arrest at
Ohio State University, the

1113
00:56:51,360 --> 00:56:53,960
hospitals held three meetings to
review Doctor Swango's

1114
00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:57,760
performance in the Cooper case.
The Inquirer group included

1115
00:56:57,760 --> 00:56:59,920
several administrators and
doctors in the hospital's

1116
00:56:59,920 --> 00:57:03,280
lawyer, an assistant attorney
general assigned to the

1117
00:57:03,280 --> 00:57:06,720
university, but only one nurse.
And she was a supervisory nurse.

1118
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:09,080
She was the one who had demanded
the review.

1119
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:13,320
So everybody else was going up
and she demanded the review.

1120
00:57:13,640 --> 00:57:17,080
One of the physicians, Dr.
Whitcomb, was assigned the task

1121
00:57:17,080 --> 00:57:19,200
of reviewing the information and
told the group he believed that

1122
00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:23,040
Missus Cooper, far from being an
injected with an aesthetic or

1123
00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:25,960
anesthetic or poison, had
suffered a grand Mal seizure and

1124
00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:27,480
been paralyzed immediately
after.

1125
00:57:27,840 --> 00:57:29,400
Right.
OK, that's so.

1126
00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:32,240
Such a normal response to a
groundwell seizure.

1127
00:57:33,600 --> 00:57:37,120
Right, no kidding.
But later, an internal report by

1128
00:57:37,120 --> 00:57:39,600
the hospital revealed that the
group had spoken with a trained

1129
00:57:39,800 --> 00:57:43,560
anesthesiologist and would later
learn that Misses Cooper's

1130
00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:46,800
symptoms were not consistent
with a seizure, but the

1131
00:57:46,800 --> 00:57:50,800
injection of either a cure or or
other paralytic intori.

1132
00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:53,520
Both of them are often in the
hospital, well, always in the

1133
00:57:53,520 --> 00:57:55,800
hospitals for intubation and
things like that.

1134
00:57:56,160 --> 00:58:00,440
Obviously, they can be used if
dangerous, if used singly and

1135
00:58:00,480 --> 00:58:04,440
also in conjunction, they can be
deadly, especially if they're

1136
00:58:04,440 --> 00:58:06,640
not monitored.
Swango was asked by three

1137
00:58:06,640 --> 00:58:09,920
doctors if he had injected
anything to Misses Cooper's IV.

1138
00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:13,440
He said no, but he did offer a
different explanation to each of

1139
00:58:13,440 --> 00:58:15,000
them.
No, I didn't do it.

1140
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:17,680
But to one, he said that he was
never in Misses Cooper's room.

1141
00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:21,200
To another, he said he entered a
room at either her or her, her

1142
00:58:21,200 --> 00:58:23,520
roommate's request to retrieve
some slippers.

1143
00:58:23,520 --> 00:58:26,160
Because, you know, I always ask
my doctor to come in and get my

1144
00:58:26,160 --> 00:58:29,720
slippers for me.
And then the the 3rd doctor, he

1145
00:58:29,720 --> 00:58:32,280
said that he'd enter the room to
draw blood.

1146
00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:35,160
He never asked.
No one ever asked him about the

1147
00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:38,120
inconsistencies.
So they may have all three asked

1148
00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:41,600
them, but nobody did anything
about it, which is awesome.

1149
00:58:42,640 --> 00:58:46,160
No one asked anyone about the
empty syringe the nurses have

1150
00:58:46,160 --> 00:58:48,520
preserved.
About six months later, the head

1151
00:58:48,520 --> 00:58:51,440
nurse threw the syringe away.
No one ever collected it from

1152
00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:52,720
me.
She said she had told people

1153
00:58:52,720 --> 00:58:54,920
about it, but nobody ever wanted
it or anything.

1154
00:58:55,280 --> 00:58:58,400
And she said she had even asked
someone, do you think it's OK?

1155
00:58:58,400 --> 00:59:01,160
They said she told she talked to
the University of Police

1156
00:59:01,160 --> 00:59:03,880
investigators and she asked
somebody, do you think it's OK

1157
00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:05,960
to throw it away?
And they said, well, sure, it's

1158
00:59:05,960 --> 00:59:07,840
gone now it's over with.
So I threw it away.

1159
00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:13,040
So the biggest piece of evidence
was now gone, and Corrigan,

1160
00:59:13,040 --> 00:59:15,720
who's investigating all this,
said he was beside himself to

1161
00:59:15,720 --> 00:59:18,160
learn about the loss of such
crucial evidence.

1162
00:59:19,120 --> 00:59:20,920
He said it was incredibly
frustrating.

1163
00:59:20,920 --> 00:59:23,480
If they had been contacted at
the time, they would have had

1164
00:59:23,480 --> 00:59:26,440
the evidence and that would have
really sealed the deal, but they

1165
00:59:26,440 --> 00:59:29,000
didn't have it.
He said he was just astounded on

1166
00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:33,080
so many levels that these things
happened and that when the group

1167
00:59:33,080 --> 00:59:35,920
was investigating Swango, they
didn't call any of the witnesses

1168
00:59:36,120 --> 00:59:37,320
for their statements or
anything.

1169
00:59:37,600 --> 00:59:40,720
They had one nurse and she was
the nurse director, which like I

1170
00:59:40,720 --> 00:59:43,920
said, she requested the review,
which is good because she was

1171
00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:46,520
the only one who did, but they
still, she hadn't been there

1172
00:59:46,520 --> 00:59:48,560
that day.
They just didn't know, right?

1173
00:59:48,880 --> 00:59:51,640
Morgan said that he concluded
the hospitals didn't want to

1174
00:59:51,640 --> 00:59:53,160
know.
They just wanted him out of the

1175
00:59:53,160 --> 00:59:56,000
hospital because by then I
everybody knew something was

1176
00:59:56,000 --> 00:59:58,160
going on, but they weren't
willing to deal with it.

1177
00:59:58,280 --> 01:00:01,840
Their main concern?
Were the legal issues, Doctor

1178
01:00:01,840 --> 01:00:05,160
Whitcomb, who was in charge of
the group, said what we did, we

1179
01:00:05,160 --> 01:00:07,440
presented the information we had
to the lawyer who is providing

1180
01:00:07,440 --> 01:00:09,440
some advice and this is his
quote.

1181
01:00:09,560 --> 01:00:11,920
Based on the information that
was available was his opinion.

1182
01:00:11,920 --> 01:00:14,400
There were no grounds for us to
take any action against Doctor

1183
01:00:14,400 --> 01:00:17,120
Swango and there was no other
investigation needed to be

1184
01:00:17,120 --> 01:00:23,120
carried forward.
I'm shaking my head because I'm

1185
01:00:23,440 --> 01:00:25,120
almost speechless.
Like cannot.

1186
01:00:25,200 --> 01:00:27,840
How can it possibly be
conclusion It's.

1187
01:00:28,720 --> 01:00:29,800
No kidding.
Well, I've said one.

1188
01:00:29,800 --> 01:00:32,280
Percent on the podcast that
healthcare for profit is crime

1189
01:00:32,280 --> 01:00:36,680
against humanity, so lawyers
should help involve healthcare

1190
01:00:36,680 --> 01:00:40,360
decision making.
No, Morgan asked this lawyer

1191
01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:42,960
later about the advice.
The lawyer insisted it was the

1192
01:00:42,960 --> 01:00:46,200
doctors who, after hearing the
report by Doctor Whitcomb,

1193
01:00:46,200 --> 01:00:48,400
indicated there would be no
further in house investigation

1194
01:00:48,400 --> 01:00:51,040
or further inquiry.
I don't buy it at any event.

1195
01:00:51,480 --> 01:00:55,160
On February 14th, the group
concluded the doctor Swango

1196
01:00:55,160 --> 01:00:58,640
should be permitted to return to
patient care immediately, but

1197
01:00:58,640 --> 01:01:03,080
with greater supervision.
This is not the end of the

1198
01:01:03,080 --> 01:01:05,520
story.
This episode is going to go into

1199
01:01:05,520 --> 01:01:08,360
two parts.
Yeah, OK, good.

1200
01:01:08,680 --> 01:01:11,120
I mean horrible not good.
But yeah.

1201
01:01:11,240 --> 01:01:13,880
Wow, I can't believe there's
enough information for a whole

1202
01:01:13,880 --> 01:01:15,760
2nd episode.
I know it's.

1203
01:01:16,040 --> 01:01:17,640
Wild.
It's wild.

1204
01:01:17,640 --> 01:01:20,120
So you, everybody hold on to
your hats.

1205
01:01:20,120 --> 01:01:23,200
This is going to continue.
Awesome thank.

1206
01:01:23,400 --> 01:01:25,920
Very interested for the next
installment.

1207
01:01:27,080 --> 01:01:28,360
Thank you.
All right.

1208
01:01:28,360 --> 01:01:31,280
If you've made it this far,
clearly you like a little mayhem

1209
01:01:31,280 --> 01:01:33,680
with your medicine.
Or you just enjoy hearing us

1210
01:01:33,680 --> 01:01:35,520
ramble about weird medical
mysteries.

1211
01:01:35,840 --> 01:01:37,400
Either way, we'd love you for
it.

1212
01:01:37,640 --> 01:01:40,280
So hit that follow or subscribe
button wherever you're

1213
01:01:40,280 --> 01:01:42,240
listening.
And toss us a rating or review

1214
01:01:42,240 --> 01:01:45,240
while you're at it.
Helps other curious weirdos find

1215
01:01:45,240 --> 01:01:47,520
the show.
And we know there are a lot of

1216
01:01:47,520 --> 01:01:49,640
you out there.
Oh so many.

1217
01:01:49,920 --> 01:01:52,040
Come join the chaos.
Thanks for listening to

1218
01:01:52,040 --> 01:01:55,160
Medicine, Mystery, mayhem, and
sometimes Murder.

1219
01:01:55,520 --> 01:01:58,040
Do you have an idea for an
episode of this podcast?

1220
01:01:58,360 --> 01:02:01,160
Just want to say hi?
You can get in touch with us at

1221
01:02:01,160 --> 01:02:05,760
Power M4 pod.
That's OURM

1222
01:02:05,840 --> 01:02:11,880
thenumberfourpod@gmail.com.
We read every e-mail, and

1223
01:02:11,880 --> 01:02:15,160
sometimes we even respond just
like real professionals.

1224
01:02:15,320 --> 01:02:19,720
Because we are.
Old friends with new twists and

1225
01:02:19,720 --> 01:02:21,280
lots of body bags.