Ep. 21: No One Knows What It’s Like

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Welcome to M4 Medicine, mystery,
mayhem, and sometimes murder.

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I'm Andrea Marziano and RN with
35 years of experience across

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various fields.
From direct patient care in

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hospitals to home health,
geriatrics, and injury medicine,

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I face life, death, and
everything in between.

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And I'm Crystal Miller and RN
with 13 1/2 years of experience.

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My work spans home health,
Hospice, emergency care,

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geriatrics, and occupational
health.

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From the chaos of trauma based
quiet moments with patients,

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I've seen stories that defy
explanation.

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We've been friends for over 25
years and as nurses we've shared

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countless stories that have left
us and our families speechless.

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Now we're bringing those stories
and many more to you in

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medicine, mystery, mayhem, and
sometimes.

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Murder.
Each week, we'll uncover cases

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that challenge the boundaries of
medicine, sharing the human

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stories behind the science.
From puzzling medical mysteries

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to shocking real life crimes,
we'll bring you stories that'll

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leave you questioning everything
you thought you knew.

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While we're both experienced
nurses, we want to make it clear

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we're not here to give medical
advice.

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This podcast is about
storytelling, education and

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exploration, not diagnosing or
treating medical conditions.

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This is medicine, mystery,
mayhem, and sometimes murder.

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Let's dive in.
Hey Crystal, how are you doing

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today?
I'm doing all right.

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How are you?
I am good, I enjoy this time of

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year and I'm looking forward to
a three-week visit with her

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granddaughter coming up.
Oh, that's wonderful.

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I'm sure you can tell him a
little bit froggy.

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So my place is recovering from
an illness last week so.

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So you've got baby frogs in your
throat.

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I got baby frogs in my throat.
That's right.

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Well, Speaking of babies, as I
was walking from one part of the

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property the other we've got a
pond as you know him, but our

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listeners may not.
As I was walking by, there was a

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Mama duck yelling at me or her
babies, I'm not really sure

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which, but she had three babies
with and that she was yelling at

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me as she was going across the
pond with her babies.

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I'm not sure if she's the same
duck we had that had 12 babies.

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I hope not because three out of
12 is not a great ratio, but it

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does nothing around here because
there are a lot of other

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predators.
I have a case for you today that

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is pretty intense and it's
pretty in depth.

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We're going to just jump right
in.

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What I've titled it is medical
mishaps or malfeasance by

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surgeon Michael Swango.
Most of it is malfeasance.

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The case is fascinating on many
levels to me at least.

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And just for a note, I'm going
to be reading some parts of it

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just because there's just no
other way to put it that's

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better.
So there'll be some things I'll

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be reading, some things I'll
just be talking about through my

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research.
And my sources are the doctor

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whose patients kept dying in The
New Yorker by James Stewart.

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And this was 1997 How a
murderous Dr. was allowed to

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keep killing patients New York
Post life life in jail for

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poison doctor CBS News the US
doctor may have killed 60

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National Library science of
medicine, right I know this case

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is wild.
I mean, there's all kinds of

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other things I could say about
it, but it's just, it's mind

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boggling.
And much of what I got was from

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The New Yorker article and I
read it first.

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So that's one of the reasons
why.

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But all of these other things
reflected the same information.

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So I'm going to start this case
with just kind of a background a

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little bit.
The case is multifaceted and

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hit, but his legal trouble began
in 1985, and it began in the

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courtroom of Judge Dennis
Cashman.

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He was over a trial for Michael
Swango, who is a young doctor.

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He was just newly minted, as it
were.

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He had already been convicted of
poisoning 5 coworkers at

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Quincy's Blessing Hospital in
Illinois.

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Good start, right?
Yeah, no kidding.

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Wow.
Sheesh.

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So the victims who had worked
with Swango, I call him Swango

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and Michael at different times.
And I noticed that as I got more

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frustrated than I called him,
Michael Moore and I didn't.

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Call him Doctor.
At any point, because I feel

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like he didn't deserve the
title.

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He was, however, a trained
medical provider.

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Not in what he was doing per SE,
but he was.

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So anyway, that's my little
caveat.

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Who he had worked closely with,
had considered him a friend, had

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worked different shifts with
him.

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They bonded and all of the
things.

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But at this trial in 1985, they
provided compelling testimony

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against him.
They actually kind of had to.

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The judge said he was struck by
the incongruity between the

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defendant and his alleged
crimes.

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The judge said on many
occasions, Swango, he looked

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like the lead up to Beaver kind
of personality.

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That's what called him.
And he said he was engaging.

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He was 30.
He had blonde hair, Hazel eyes

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and he just had a friendly
demeanor and a broad smile.

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And I looked him up online and
in his most of the pictures,

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they were, they were mug shots
and things like that.

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So he no longer look like one of
Leave It to Beaver characters,

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but I can see how he could have.
He'd been the valedictorian of

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his high school class, and he
did an internship and surgery at

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Ohio State University.
So knowing all of this was

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incongruous to the judge, which
I thought was really interesting

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because it was me too.
Swango, unfortunately chose to

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be the principal witness in his
own defense.

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But because he'd been articulate
and likable, he thought he was

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going to be OK.
Unfortunately for him, his

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likability had little to do with
the ultimate outcome because the

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evidence had been compelling,
conclusive as well.

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Swango had given his victim
varying doses of, guess what,

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poison.
Bryson.

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Close.
That would have been easier to

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find actually in this time
frame.

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But arsenic, OK, what's
fascinating to me, and I may use

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this word too many times this
time, but it just this whole

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case modeled my mind.
But he didn't have the intention

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of killing them.
He just wanted to see their

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reactions.
Oh, that's horrifying.

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He literally poisoned them to
see how they would respond.

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So like Doctor Mangala?
Like any other kind of

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psychopath.
Yeah.

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Anyway, that's another side note
too, because I'm not diagnosing

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him officially.
I'm not treated this person.

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I'm not able to diagnose.
I have not.

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It was far too long ago for me
to be trained.

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And anyway, anyway, James
Cashman ended up sentencing him

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for the maximum term allowed,
which is five years.

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OK, it went over.
There was a bunch of evidence

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and we'll talk a little bit
about some of what happened in a

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look back sort of thing later.
But just know that he did the

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maximum term allowed, which is
five years.

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And this was after poisoning
multiple people.

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But remember, this case was
tried in 85.

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He was paroled in 87.
Wow.

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Right, right.
And then he attempted to resume

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his medical career.
And what's interesting is the

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judge.
Cashman said he received a

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number of inquiries from
hospitals, medical schools and

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placement services after
Swanko's release.

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So they called him to check in.
I guess I, I'm not really sure.

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So things kind of moved along.
But in 1999, an FBI agent

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visited Judge Cashman as
Chambers, and he said that the

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FBI was trying to develop a
psychological profiles.

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Thank Swango, because Swango was
thought to have fled the country

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in early 1994 because he was
being sought by police in Long

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Island for some things we will
talk about in a minute.

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So the agent told the judge that
the Bureau had connected Swango

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to a number of possible
homicides.

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So he moved from seeing how
things worked with people to

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potentially killing people.
And the FBI agent said that he

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might have killed dozens of
people.

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Wow.
He ultimately was arrested in

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the summer of 1998, the Chicago
International Airport, but he

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was initially actually held on a
minor fraud charge because they

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just needed to get in the cuffs.
Sure.

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Yeah, yeah, I get that.
Anyway, so this is kind of the

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set up for the rest of the
story.

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Hold on to your socks, sister.
This is a thing.

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Oh boy, oh boy.
I know Judge Cashman, he was one

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of the thing, one of the people
that was interviewed in most of

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these articles because he had
such a big part of it.

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But he said several times that
he was either astonished or

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mortified or blah, blah, blah.
But he said he was astonished by

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the number of his alleged
victims, which if proved, could

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make him one of the most
prolific serial killers in

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American history.
You know, we think of serial

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killers, I think as somebody
wielding some giant knife or

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doing some something, tearing
someone limb to limb and things

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like that.
And one of the cases we've

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covered had someone also in a
similar notoriety because he was

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a serial killer, that did it in
a more quiet kind of way.

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Our podcast does talk about
medical sorts of things, and in

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my case, malfeasance is what
I've called it.

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But it's just so fascinating to
this could happen in this kind

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of way.
The judge said that he was

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equally disturbed by the number
of hospital administrators and

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doctors who entrusted the care
of patients to a man who they

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knew to be a convicted felon.
This is mirroring so closely

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right now at this moment of
Doctor Dutch, whose nickname is

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Doctor Death, exactly all of
these passes that were literally

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fatal like.
And you'll see that's even true

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more and more as we go along
because there were a lot of

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times that people just assumed
he couldn't possibly be doing

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what he thinks, what they
thought he was doing or

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individually the people thought,
well, it's not that bad.

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It's not my place to say or
something like that.

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But the judge said it's
outrageous that he had been

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allowed to go on.
He also said this is a quote,

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it's a national scandal.
And I have to agree, and you

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probably will later.
Sounds like my voice might be

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getting worse.
It's okay, we'll just pretend

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like it's not.
How's that?

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In all of these cases, we like
to look at how a person got to

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this point, right?
How?

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What's your history?
What could have possibly

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happened?
Usually there's some dramatic,

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traumatic, horrible thing.
In the case of Michael Swango,

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really it seemed like he was
like most of us, especially

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those of us who travelled around
a lot.

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His father had been in the
military.

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He was actually born at Fort
Lewis here in Washington, not

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far from where I live, and he
was born in 1954.

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His mother was a housewife and
his father, John, was a military

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officer.
After his time here in

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Washington and various other
places, the family finally

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settled in Quincy, IL in 1967.
Mike's father John was in

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Vietnam during Michael's
adolescence, family believed

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that he was engaged in
clandestine operations in the

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army and later after the fall of
Saigon, he he was possibly

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involved in, it was called the
Agency for International

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Development, which I'd never
heard of, but apparently that

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was something that was happening
at in the 70s.

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But after he came back from his
military service, John became

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estranged from his family.
He also became he began to drink

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heavily and he died in 1982.
OK, so while we've heard his

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last connection, no, not
specifically mentioned, OK,

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However, and it doesn't say
anything about the fact that he

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was in in any way abusive or
anything like that.

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And that's what I was just going
to say is most of these cases,

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we found that they, the
perpetrator had multiple

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horrendous experiences.
There's really nothing besides

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heavy drinking.
They don't say he was abusive or

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anything.
Like I say, there was no

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physical problem or anything.
And actually his dad was really

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not even in the home anymore
when he basically drank himself

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to death.
But it appears that Michael may

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have glorified his father's
Vietnam exploits.

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But still, it didn't.
It didn't really seem to connect

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at any point that I could see.
And no one in any of the

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00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:41,400
investigative material I read
said anything about it being

229
00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:43,600
connected.
His mom said that his, her son

230
00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:44,960
got along with the other
students.

231
00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:48,400
He was well adjusted.
He was a class officer, served

232
00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:50,480
on the student council, the
school paper, the yearbook

233
00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:52,000
staff.
Just a regular Joe, right?

234
00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:53,920
I mean, there was nothing,
nowhere.

235
00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:57,760
Like my dad, honestly.
Sounds like, yeah, about half of

236
00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:00,640
the country.
And what's even more interesting

237
00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:03,920
is he ranked in the 97th
percentile on his college

238
00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:07,120
aptitude test.
So he was a smart little cookie,

239
00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:11,640
too, which if we think about
some of the cases we've covered

240
00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:14,920
that's common, is that they're
sometimes a little bit too smart

241
00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:18,160
for what they can handle.
And a lot of times I've noticed,

242
00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:22,920
and this is scientific research
by Andrea, that many of these

243
00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:27,720
these people are probably
somehow affected and unable to

244
00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:30,080
interact well because of their
intelligence.

245
00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:34,040
Some people, and this is not
here in any of the information,

246
00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:36,840
but I wonder, did he have some
sort of Asperger's or some sort

247
00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:40,360
of spectrum situation?
And not to say that all people

248
00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:43,080
on the spectrum will do anything
horrendous, but there does need

249
00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:46,640
to be a pretty, pretty strongly,
doesn't there, that that these

250
00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:49,320
things go together and many,
many people on the spectrum are

251
00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:53,200
very, very intelligent, but this
can affect their ability to get

252
00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:55,640
along with people.
It appears that he did seem to

253
00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:57,160
get along pretty well with
people.

254
00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:01,400
So maybe he could fake it, maybe
he didn't really, I'm not sure.

255
00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:03,680
But he ended up receiving a
scholarship to music.

256
00:13:03,680 --> 00:13:05,920
He played the clarinet and
apparently was one of those

257
00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:09,920
promising students in the whole
school and he got a scholarship

258
00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:13,560
to music and Milliken
University, which is in Decatur,

259
00:13:13,560 --> 00:13:15,560
IL.
I had never heard of it and I'm

260
00:13:15,560 --> 00:13:19,200
not sure if it's still a college
or, but apparently it's musical

261
00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:22,800
and maybe that's why because I
did play the clarinet, but

262
00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:26,120
nobody just thought I was a
prodigy when I when I traded to

263
00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:29,200
go to to track in high school,
my sister, my sister.

264
00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:31,600
Nope.
My teacher said Yep, good luck,

265
00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:35,400
you'll do much better there.
She didn't really say that, but

266
00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:40,720
she probably thought it anyway.
So after Michael did university

267
00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:42,760
for two years, he joined the
Marines.

268
00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:45,040
He apparently was in the Marines
for two years.

269
00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:47,400
They were uneventful years.
Nobody.

270
00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:49,600
He wasn't ever accused of
anything.

271
00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:52,520
Nothing weird happened and he
had an honorable discharge of

272
00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:55,160
the rank of Argent.
It's still to me is going where

273
00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:57,760
where are the big warning flags?
Where where are the what

274
00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:00,600
happened?
Anyway, after he got back from

275
00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,600
the military, he enrolled in the
Community College that I thought

276
00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:07,120
was interesting because he
enrolled in a Community College

277
00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:10,520
versus a more advanced college.
And I would think that he.

278
00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:12,400
Would have had.
Yeah, I would have thought he

279
00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:16,000
would had some sort of stipend
from the government, from his

280
00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:17,600
service, but they.
Don't think about them.

281
00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:21,920
What do they call it?
The GI Bill, yeah, they don't

282
00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:25,040
see anything about that.
But these, these pieces of

283
00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:30,320
information and resources were
pretty in detail about the other

284
00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:32,880
stuff.
I find this history really just

285
00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:35,160
going what, how where are the
flags?

286
00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:36,880
Where are the flags?
Because usually there's

287
00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:40,280
everybody's, everybody's missed
500 red flags.

288
00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:44,200
Anyway, he did go to the
Community College and then he

289
00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:47,200
later did transfer to Quincy
University and he graduated in

290
00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:51,400
1979 with a near perfect 3.89
grade point average.

291
00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:55,120
So he had given up the clarinet
and he changed his major to

292
00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:57,800
chemistry and biology and wanted
to become a medical doctor.

293
00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:01,920
OK, cool.
So at that point he enrolled in

294
00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:04,840
the Southern Illinois University
School of Medicine and

295
00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:07,560
Carbondale and he was 24 at that
time.

296
00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:10,440
This is when he says they had
that he started having some real

297
00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:13,800
problems.
He his classmates had said they

298
00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:17,760
called him Gunner and I thought
it was related to his military

299
00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:19,760
experience.
But what they said is that he

300
00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:21,960
was someone who would do
anything to get ahead.

301
00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:26,360
Oh, interesting.
And at this point they all said

302
00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:28,480
that he seemed to be with a
drawn and a loner.

303
00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:31,080
So maybe this is a little peek
of some of the red flags.

304
00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:36,480
Still no explanation of why, but
now he's withdrawn in a loaner.

305
00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:40,360
And when he was younger, he was
more engaged and kind of sounded

306
00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:42,440
like a social butterfly a little
bit, Right, right, right.

307
00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:46,280
Some of his fellow students
suspected him of cheating in

308
00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:48,600
medical school.
That's a really great plan.

309
00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:53,320
They also said that his work had
seemed sloppy and cavalier.

310
00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:55,800
They thought it maybe it was
because he's away a lot working

311
00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:59,160
part time as a paramedic.
So he's in medical school

312
00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:02,840
working as a paramedic and and
that is not that uncommon, but I

313
00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:05,440
think it's more common for
nurses to work as paramedics and

314
00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:07,960
EMTs than doctors, but I don't
know that for sure.

315
00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:10,280
I don't either, but I know that
there were a lot of paramedics

316
00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:11,720
in my nursing school class.
Right.

317
00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:13,960
Exactly.
A few years later, one of his

318
00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:16,880
students noticed the swango had
struck him as being immoral.

319
00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:19,480
This is his quote.
Immoral to the point of being a

320
00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:22,200
psychopath.
A little bigger red flag, right?

321
00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:25,480
Yeah, a little bit what?
What's going on?

322
00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:29,160
And apparently Swango had been
given the nickname Double O

323
00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:31,440
Swango.
I'm thinking, what does that

324
00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:33,400
even mean?
This is another quote from the

325
00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:35,360
same student.
It didn't say who he was the

326
00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:39,880
student, but this was a quote in
the same interview he was in and

327
00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:42,480
it said it was because of the
number of times that his reports

328
00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:45,720
indicated that patient was doing
well and then the patient was

329
00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:48,920
soon after die or have severe
problems.

330
00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:50,640
My gosh.
So he was doing something in

331
00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:55,200
medical school, probably.
So it seems after he failed a

332
00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:59,120
course, there was a a student
and faculty review board that

333
00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:01,160
was put together to review a
status.

334
00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:05,319
Because he was, he was not doing
all of the things that he needed

335
00:17:05,319 --> 00:17:07,520
to do.
One of the residents complained,

336
00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:11,800
I mean, the resident student,
not resident of the facility or

337
00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:13,920
anything.
Just to be clear, I complained

338
00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:16,560
that Swango had prepared a
report on a patient without ever

339
00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:19,160
examining her.
So he did a full report.

340
00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:23,160
He they were supposed to be
doing the actual clinical stuff.

341
00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:28,240
Swango denied it, and
unfortunately for Swango, A

342
00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:31,120
faculty member obtained the
patient's chart and there was no

343
00:17:31,120 --> 00:17:33,880
entry, as there should have
been, to suggest that Swango had

344
00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:36,360
ever seen the patient.
Citing this in a series of other

345
00:17:36,360 --> 00:17:39,200
incidents, the doctor, Swango V.
Dismissed, although he was only

346
00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:42,440
a month away from graduation.
So they must have been very

347
00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:46,240
concerned to be putting all of
this together at this point,

348
00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:49,720
some of them trying to stop him
from practicing.

349
00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:52,160
So there were eight members on
this committee.

350
00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:54,640
I mean, excuse me, there were
nine members on this committee.

351
00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:58,240
8 of them moved for his
dismissal, 1 abstained.

352
00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:02,880
Only one, John Murphy, who is a
pathologist, was and was one of

353
00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:05,640
Swango's teachers voted to give
him another chance.

354
00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:08,880
Oh, wow, Doctor Murphy said.
He quoted.

355
00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:11,800
I saved him from dismissal.
The committee decided Swango

356
00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:14,400
should spend an additional nine
months in the program and would

357
00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:18,080
have to repeat the OBGYN course.
And then the following spring he

358
00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:20,920
graduated, earning all
satisfactory evaluations.

359
00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:23,320
There's notation in a few
sources that the school didn't

360
00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:27,120
award letter grades, which I
find unbothering, but they just

361
00:18:27,120 --> 00:18:32,120
sort of did a pass fail
situation, which I guess is OK,

362
00:18:32,360 --> 00:18:35,600
but I don't know that any of the
facilities do that anymore.

363
00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:38,240
But one thing that Doctor Murphy
later said is that he had

364
00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:42,440
misjudged Dr. Swango.
And he said quoting, to be

365
00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:45,040
honest, I felt very bad.
I was one of his defenders.

366
00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:47,200
I was wrong about him.
I was duped.

367
00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:52,880
So later on, Doctor Murphy was
very much not happy that he had

368
00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:55,480
saved him from being expelled
from the program.

369
00:18:56,360 --> 00:19:00,760
But here's the news.
There was no indication of any

370
00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:04,080
of this, this committee, these
chart, these alleged charges,

371
00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:06,960
things like that on Swango's
medical school records.

372
00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:09,440
So there was no indicator that
this had happened.

373
00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:12,760
And he applied for and was
admitted to a residency in

374
00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:15,920
neurosurgery at The Ohio State
University in Columbus and he

375
00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:19,160
began that program in 1983.
This was a five year

376
00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:21,680
appointment, but it was
conditioned on satisfactory

377
00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:24,560
completion of his first year
internship and general surgery.

378
00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:28,920
And that was a very good thing,
because in the early spring of

379
00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:31,920
1984, he received a letter from
Ohio State saying that his

380
00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:34,280
appointment was being terminated
at the end of his first year.

381
00:19:34,360 --> 00:19:36,920
The letter gave no reason for
his termination.

382
00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:38,840
I really wish I knew what it
was.

383
00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:41,600
I didn't see it anywhere, what
it could be, but I suspect it

384
00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:44,280
was along the same lines as what
had been happening in his his

385
00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:47,560
medical program.
He decided after he'd been asked

386
00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:50,600
to leave that he returned to
Quincy, the town he had been

387
00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:53,440
living in with his family, and
he knew he could find temporary

388
00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:55,800
work as a paramedic.
He was working for Adams County

389
00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:58,760
Ambulance Service then he was
going to apply for his license

390
00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:00,400
and to practice medicine in
Illinois.

391
00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:02,800
Most of the paramedics in Adams
County had worked with him

392
00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:06,000
before while he was in college
and medical school, so a lot of

393
00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:11,840
them knew him and one of the EM
TS and OR paramedics.

394
00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:13,680
I'm sorry.
Paramedics said wait till you

395
00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:17,480
meet Swango and they told.
That to a Co worker named Mark

396
00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:20,840
Krizepthakuski.
I will now call him Mr. K from

397
00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:22,200
now on.
OK.

398
00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:24,080
Because I'm not going to be able
to say that correctly.

399
00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:26,560
I don't even think I did this
time, but I definitely won't.

400
00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:30,040
Refutedly, Mr. K hadn't worked
with Swingo yet, and he thought

401
00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:33,440
it was odd that a medical doctor
was working as a paramedic.

402
00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:37,480
I mean, if if nothing else,
there's a huge pay difference.

403
00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:41,800
And Mr. K also knew that he had
been a university intern, I

404
00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:44,520
mean, the University Hospital
intern, and he just thought that

405
00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:47,520
was weird.
But when Swango arrived, Mr. K

406
00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:52,600
was struck again by he referred
to Swango's Beaver Cleaver looks

407
00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:56,680
a manner like the judge had.
So he had Swango apparently had

408
00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:59,560
the ability to charge patient
harm patients in the emergency

409
00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:03,680
room, the doctors, everybody.
And he was always eager to work

410
00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:07,400
extra hours and showing up.
This is something that I found

411
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:09,920
as a red flag.
He was often showing up to help

412
00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:12,200
with the scene of accidents,
even when he's off duty.

413
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:16,080
Oh yeah, that's weird.
Like he had, sorry, a police

414
00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:19,360
scanner or something.
Yes, and this is not uncommon

415
00:21:19,360 --> 00:21:22,240
and a serial predator, as it
were, right.

416
00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:26,320
So I I thought, OK, there's
another red flag.

417
00:21:26,360 --> 00:21:28,800
We didn't have any in a long
time, but now apparently we have

418
00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:30,800
two or three.
But, you know, as, as we know,

419
00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:35,120
in most cases, ambulance workers
work 24 hour shifts and often

420
00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:37,000
they'll work out of a fire
station.

421
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:40,400
But in this case, they work from
a building that was attached to

422
00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:42,600
Quincy's Blessing Hospital.
It's called.

423
00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:44,360
It's just Quincy's Blessing
Hospital.

424
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:48,160
And they often were eating and
sleeping on the premises

425
00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:50,240
because, you know, they were
working 24 hours.

426
00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:53,280
One of the fellow workers noted
that in the early morning

427
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:57,240
starting on September 14th, and
this, what was this is 83, I

428
00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:59,840
believe Kwango showed up with a
box of doughnuts and put them on

429
00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:02,880
the table and he just said, I
got you guys a big box of

430
00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:08,160
doughnuts and then he took one
and Mr. K took one and so did

431
00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:10,800
the three other paramedics.
Guess what happened?

432
00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:14,920
They got sick.
About half an hour later, one of

433
00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:17,840
them became feeling nauseated
and flushed and dizzy and he had

434
00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:21,320
to run to the bathroom to vomit.
And then 15 minutes later, the

435
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:24,360
other three were filled with
similar symptoms.

436
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:27,120
Yes, he wasn't.
Yeah, that's what I figured.

437
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:30,800
I'm so surprised.
One of the paramedics, his name

438
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:33,560
was Brent Unmissing, he said
what did you do?

439
00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:36,000
Mike poisoned us and he was
joking about it.

440
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:37,960
He was joking about it.
But is that called

441
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:42,720
foreshadowing?
And so this is crazy to me.

442
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:45,120
So swang us.
It was reported that swang us at

443
00:22:45,120 --> 00:22:48,440
forwarder's chair and shook his
head and he said, no, I didn't,

444
00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:50,080
you know, I wouldn't do anything
like that.

445
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:52,880
But he picked up the box and
took the remaining Donuts and he

446
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:55,200
left the room.
All of the men who had had these

447
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,000
Donuts had gotten so violently,
they all they had to leave work.

448
00:22:58,200 --> 00:22:59,480
Wow.
Right.

449
00:22:59,960 --> 00:23:02,400
And so it sounds like Swangle
wasn't even on shift at that

450
00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:04,160
time.
He just brought the Donuts and

451
00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:08,240
the boys and his staff, I guess.
And the next day was a Friday

452
00:23:08,360 --> 00:23:11,280
and Swangle was assigned to work
at a high school football game.

453
00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:13,160
And the ambulance was always on
duty.

454
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:15,480
And I'm sure we've all seen that
where there's someone waiting at

455
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:18,840
these games just for when, not
just in case or for when

456
00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:22,440
somebody gets hurt some.
So he was on there and the

457
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:25,720
ambulance was just waiting.
His partner was this UN missing

458
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:27,720
again.
They noted that the game had

459
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,920
proceeded uneventfully.
But just before halftime, Swango

460
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:36,320
offered his partner a soda and
he returned from the alleged

461
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:40,080
snack shop or something.
He had two sodas, but they were

462
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:42,720
in a paper cup.
But he gave it to missing.

463
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:44,640
And missing probably didn't
think about it because a lot of

464
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:48,800
times those those soda and snack
places are run by moms and they

465
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:50,360
just fill up a cup and they hand
it off.

466
00:23:50,360 --> 00:23:52,480
No big deal.
And so he didn't even really

467
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:55,200
think about it, but he drank
part of it by the end of the

468
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:59,160
third quarter and missing was
vomiting my ambulance.

469
00:23:59,360 --> 00:24:04,400
Swango so seemed concerned and
missing said and he questioned

470
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,640
his partner in minute date
detail about what he was

471
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:10,600
feeling.
So all right.

472
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:13,160
And I guess some people and it
was just the two of them.

473
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:15,360
So I don't know.
He was pretty the other guy was

474
00:24:15,360 --> 00:24:17,000
pretty sick.
So he just went home.

475
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,440
He continued to be violently
I'll vomiting and severe

476
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,040
headaches and he stayed in bed
for three days.

477
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,080
I don't know at this point what
kind of flags are going off for

478
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:29,320
his partner there, but early in
the afternoon on September 27th,

479
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:32,240
Swango, those Co workers on duty
who's going for sodas?

480
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:37,640
Yay, give me one of your sodas.
And one of them, Greg Myers,

481
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:40,440
said he'd like a diet 7UP.
So a few minutes later they

482
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,880
reported that Myers saw Swango
come down the 3:45 sodas then

483
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:47,000
turn into the men's bathroom
when Myers took a 7UP.

484
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:49,520
I know, weird.
He noticed that it already been

485
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:52,040
opened.
So he said did you go in the

486
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:53,240
bathroom?
Whiz in mine.

487
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:56,440
Oh God.
I know, but he still drank about

488
00:24:56,440 --> 00:25:00,920
1/4 of the drink over ice.
I'm like, if I had any any

489
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:02,360
thoughts like that, there's no
way.

490
00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:06,640
I don't even I don't bring
drinks or food into the bathroom

491
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:08,560
at all.
I certainly I'm not going to

492
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:10,760
bring other people's food and
drink into the bathroom.

493
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:13,000
I don't think I do either,
actually.

494
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,840
Not necessarily as a, not
necessarily as a conscious

495
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:17,480
decision.
But yeah, I don't think I can't.

496
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:18,920
I can't.
That's just weird.

497
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:21,480
Mine is one another.
I have a bathroom where I have

498
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:23,480
AI have a bathroom where the
toilet's own room.

499
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,960
Like maybe I might like bring a
soda instead of on the sink

500
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:28,680
counter and then going to the
toilet room, right?

501
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:31,040
Maybe.
But even then, I probably sat on

502
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:32,960
my dresser before and said it
somewhere in the bathroom.

503
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,200
Yeah, I don't prefer food or
beverage in a bathroom.

504
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,160
That's weird.
There's a lot of reasons for

505
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:42,120
that and we can do an episode on
why I wouldn't want to do that

506
00:25:42,120 --> 00:25:44,040
because I always feel about it
anyway.

507
00:25:44,360 --> 00:25:47,280
But Myers took the 7UP and he
noticed it already been open,

508
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:50,560
like I said, and he drank about
1/4 of it.

509
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:54,360
And he said he was soon overcome
by nausea and wracked by what he

510
00:25:54,360 --> 00:25:57,560
called afterwards quotes the
worst vomiting I've ever

511
00:25:57,560 --> 00:25:58,760
experienced.
Right.

512
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,920
So he went home to recover.
And in the meantime, I'm

513
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:03,760
thinking, what the heck are they
thinking about that?

514
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:06,560
He already, Myers already said,
Would you, isn't it?

515
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,560
And then he got really sick.
I mean, to me, I'd be going,

516
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:13,960
hey, something's happening here.
But he went to him to recover,

517
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:16,400
and a few days later, he got a
call from Swango.

518
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:20,320
He wanted to know every detail
of his symptoms.

519
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:22,760
Exactly.
Creepy, Meyer said.

520
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:27,000
Later on, when this all got kind
of uncovered, he said Swango's

521
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:31,560
interest seemed so acute that he
hung up on Swango because Meyers

522
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:33,640
at that point, began to have
suspicion about him.

523
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:36,520
I'm like, you should have had
suspicions like 3 weeks ago,

524
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,120
dude.
But, and I think also one of the

525
00:26:39,120 --> 00:26:42,240
things that made this probably
go longer is a lot of times in

526
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:45,280
these shifts they rotate.
So they're not working with same

527
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:48,960
people all the time.
But also, I mean, in medical

528
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,760
field work gets around pretty
fast to me.

529
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:55,360
I mean, I've never noticed a lot
of secrets being held, but

530
00:26:55,360 --> 00:26:57,560
especially with something like
this anyway.

531
00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:00,560
But for some reason, it was then
a few weeks later, two other

532
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:02,720
paramorex noticed that my teeth
iced teeth.

533
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:05,200
The head brood had become
inexplicably sweet.

534
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:09,520
An arsenic suite, right?
Thinking of Flowers in the Attic

535
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:10,800
and the cadney.
I mean the.

536
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:12,440
Cookies.
Yes.

537
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,000
Yes.
And they spoke to each other,

538
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,720
the two guys who had brewed this
stuff and and said, did you add

539
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:18,960
sugar?
No, I didn't have sugar.

540
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:21,560
Did you try what?
And then they were alarmed.

541
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:26,000
Finally, someone was alarmed by
the recent spate of illnesses,

542
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:29,560
so they both dumped their
glasses and begin searching for

543
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:32,680
some empty sugar packets,
thinking maybe somebody else had

544
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:35,560
sugared it because I guess they
had gone out for a run or left

545
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:38,520
the room or whatever.
They had never found any sugar

546
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:42,000
packets, however.
Swango poured the entire pitcher

547
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:47,760
of tea into a sink.
So later that afternoon, after

548
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:50,040
Swango had left on the ambulance
run, they noticed that his

549
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,760
duffel bag was open.
These guys saw a bag stamped

550
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:56,640
George Keller and Sons that had
fallen out of it.

551
00:27:56,640 --> 00:28:00,480
Keller in their area is a large
lawn and garden store in Quincy

552
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,400
and when they looked into the
Keller bag they saw two

553
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:08,560
containers of Tarot Ant Killer.
The primary active ingredient in

554
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:14,000
Toro Ant Killer is arsenic.
Yes, sodium arsenate and arsenic

555
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,800
derivative.
And it's in a concentrated sugar

556
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:22,160
solution, which also explained
some of the sugar.

557
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:24,840
What a surprise.
One of the containers was empty.

558
00:28:25,360 --> 00:28:29,800
So Dwango had this in his bag.
One of the containers was empty.

559
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:34,440
And then the paramedics began to
talk to each other at this

560
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:38,000
point, and they began to recall
some odd behaviors, Swangos and

561
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,520
some odd remarks he had made
earlier in the summer.

562
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:42,520
They've been watching TV in the
quarters, and they heard their

563
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:46,280
new the news, accompanied by
graphic footage that a gunman

564
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:49,080
had stormed into McDonald's
restaurant in California,

565
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:52,680
killing 21 people.
And Swango, tell you what I

566
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,480
think of this.
Swango had leapt from his chair

567
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:57,080
and turned up the volume,
explaining.

568
00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:58,800
That's just great.
I love it.

569
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:00,840
I wish I could have been there
to see it all.

570
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:02,080
And what the?
Hell.

571
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:04,840
Exactly.
And later, he added, Every time

572
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:07,240
I think of a good idea, somebody
beats me to it.

573
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:09,200
Oh.
My God.

574
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:12,320
What the hell?
Almost to you, I don't.

575
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:16,160
Know well.
And also, OK, picture this, I'm

576
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:19,200
sitting in a room with
paramedics and such like this

577
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,880
and one of them jumps up and
says this and I don't, you know,

578
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:26,760
clock it and go this.
And everyone's been getting sick

579
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:29,000
anytime he's been around.
Seems to me I'd put that

580
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,000
together, but at this point
they're still I would.

581
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:33,040
Seriously.
Be like dude that is so messed

582
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:34,720
up what the hell is wrong with
you?

583
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:37,520
Exactly.
But apparently nobody did.

584
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:41,120
For whatever reason.
The Mr. Ki referred to earlier

585
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:44,720
was often Swango's partner, and
he recalled that Swango

586
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:47,840
maintained a series of large
scrapbooks in which he pasted

587
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:51,800
articles from the newspaper and
magazines detailing incidents of

588
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:54,960
violent deaths, including
numerous accounts of poisoning.

589
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,440
And I'm like, what?
Why is no one saying anything?

590
00:29:58,440 --> 00:29:59,840
This is a common thread, isn't
it?

591
00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:02,480
Through these stories that we've
heard, especially in medicine,

592
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:05,120
nobody says anything.
And I don't know if they just

593
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:06,560
don't want to rock the boat or
what.

594
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:11,840
Mr. K said that Swangwood said
poisoning and such were a good

595
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:15,240
was a good way to kill people.
When Mr. K was interviewed later

596
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:17,560
about all of this during
investigations and things like

597
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:20,880
that, he said, you know,
ambulance attendant Lanter is

598
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:23,800
pretty rough and tumble.
He said to me this is a little

599
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:25,840
more than rough and tumble, but
he says it's rough and tumble.

600
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:27,920
You know, we're both in the
medical field, we've heard

601
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:29,560
stuff, but I've never heard this
stuff.

602
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:32,680
And if I did, I certainly would
have eyebrows raised and say

603
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:34,880
something.
But Mr. K also said he never

604
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,280
really knew if he should take
Swan Go seriously.

605
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,200
Because I think that's something
that can happen is when somebody

606
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,240
says something that wackadoodle,
maybe they're going to know

607
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:45,360
that.
No, that can't be.

608
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,160
And other cases we've looked at,
hasn't that been it?

609
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:50,120
No, that can't be.
I must have misunderstood.

610
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:52,200
No, you can't.
No, that doesn't make any sense.

611
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:54,760
And that's the problem is those
of us who are thinking

612
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:56,640
rationally and logically are
looking at these things.

613
00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:58,920
No, no, I can't be it.
That doesn't make any sense

614
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,680
anyway.
Mr. Kate continued in his

615
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:05,040
interview, saying that the more
he would verbalize about sort of

616
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:07,840
things, the more time they spent
together, he said.

617
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:10,080
Mr. Kate said one time while
they were drinking coffee at the

618
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:13,960
hospital, the paramedics were
watching a public a broadcast

619
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:18,240
show about a notorious killer
named Harry Lucas Lee, Excuse

620
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:21,400
me, Harry Lee Lucas.
And he was a serial killer.

621
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:25,680
And Swango said, in his typical
fashion, wouldn't that be great

622
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:29,040
to travel around the country
killing people, just moving on,

623
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:31,200
killing some more, a great
lifestyle.

624
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:35,880
In the hell.
I mean, seems a little awkward,

625
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:41,840
a little off putting because,
you know, that seems like

626
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:44,080
something most of us don't want
to do again.

627
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:45,920
It was one of the things they're
just like, yeah, he's a little

628
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:47,600
wackadoodle, but he was good at
his job.

629
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:50,440
That was that was the clincher.
I think he was good at being a

630
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:52,480
paramedic.
Mr. K and others recalled that

631
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,600
Swanga like to say the best
thing about being a doctor.

632
00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:58,560
Now this is going to be
inappropriate comment.

633
00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:01,840
Swango said the best thing about
being a doctor to be come out of

634
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:04,680
the emergency room with a heart
on to tell some parents their

635
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:06,400
kid had just died from a head
trauma.

636
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,240
Also talked about a sexual
fantasy of burying a hatchet in

637
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,200
the back of a female Co workers
head in order to induce

638
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:15,040
seizures.
Now I don't know about you but

639
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:17,720
this seems a little off to me.
This.

640
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:21,080
I don't know why they just took
this as a grain of salt or

641
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:22,920
something.
Again, I think maybe it's just

642
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:26,280
because they thought he was so
wackadoodle that he was just

643
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:28,840
blowing smoke and making a lot
of crazy statements that no one

644
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:31,640
could take seriously.
A week after the paramedics

645
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:36,000
found the Ant poison, Myers
brewed a pot of iced tea, adding

646
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,520
no sweetener.
He and another paramedic left on

647
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:41,680
the ambulance call, and when
they returned, Swango was not

648
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:43,880
willing or there.
Another paramedic said he had

649
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:48,600
seen Swango racing away from the
racing away in his car from the

650
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:51,000
hospital.
That brought really big red

651
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:55,480
flags because they went ahead
and delivered a sample of the

652
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:59,720
tea to William Gasser, who had
been a chemistry professor of

653
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:03,080
Swingo's at Quincy University.
He was laboratory consultant at

654
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:06,400
the hospital, and a test
revealed the presence of the

655
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:10,680
sample of a heavy metal.
That heavy metal finding was

656
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:12,880
consistent with the presence of
arsenic.

657
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:16,840
So this tea that they had,
nobody drank fortunately,

658
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,960
because they started to get
caught up with his history and

659
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:23,080
all.
So instead of drinking it, they

660
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:25,720
decided to take it to his test.
And their suspicions were true.

661
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:29,640
Like I said, the arsenic was
found in the drink.

662
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:34,000
I know.
And I can't even imagine how I

663
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:38,520
would feel or think about this.
I mean, hindsight is 2020,

664
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:40,880
right?
So people think about it and

665
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:43,640
they go, Oh my gosh, he said
this and Oh my goodness, he said

666
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:45,920
that.
And oh heavens, wow, putting

667
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:48,040
these things all together now
we're seeing the flags,

668
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:50,560
especially at that point.
I can't imagine the paramedics

669
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:53,000
weren't talking to each other by
now for having since they've

670
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:56,880
been enough.
But it it just boggles the mind.

671
00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:01,600
On October 26th, Swango got a
call at work asking him to stop

672
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:03,960
by the Adams County Sheriff's
Office to supply some

673
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:07,120
information.
Now Swango probably didn't think

674
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:10,639
this was too weird because he
had applied to become a deputy

675
00:34:10,639 --> 00:34:13,920
coroner and the sheriff implied
he was about to get the job.

676
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:18,400
Interesting it is.
Instead, when he arrived, he was

677
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:22,679
arrested and read his rights.
Finally.

678
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:24,560
They didn't even have to go get
him.

679
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:27,440
They just said, yeah, come on
you crazy dude, come, come and

680
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:30,239
apply for your job.
And then he gave permission for

681
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:33,679
police to search his apartment,
which is like, that is weird.

682
00:34:33,679 --> 00:34:37,239
Especially when the police
entered the apartment, they

683
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:39,840
found a book with skull and
crossbones on the cover lying on

684
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:43,560
the table in the midst of
needles and bottles.

685
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:48,639
The book this is this is funny.
I mean ironically funny, not ha

686
00:34:48,639 --> 00:34:51,440
ha funny.
But the book was said to be

687
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:55,373
popular with paramilitary
enthusiasts on a manual on do it

688
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:07,760
So the police report stated as
they entered and searched this

689
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:12,040
apartment, an entire mini lab
setup was observed and they they

690
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:14,600
found numerous chemicals,
suspected poisons and poisonous

691
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:17,840
compounds.
So the police of course seized

692
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:21,440
the book and various pest
poisons along with numerous

693
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:24,600
containers to our Ant killer.
The Ant killer was filled to

694
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:27,040
different levels.
So obviously it's been being

695
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:28,920
used.
And they also found the

696
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:31,360
chemicals.
Insurgents I mentioned a gallon

697
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:34,880
of sulfuric acid supply of
Castor beans, which is the raw

698
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:36,680
material for what you said
before.

699
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:42,840
Bryson Yes, so all those just as
an apartment and he said OK,

700
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:45,680
sure, go take a look.
What the heck did he think that?

701
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:48,160
I don't understand how he didn't
think they were going to put

702
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:49,840
these things together but in the
mean.

703
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:51,200
Time He probably thought he was
smarter than them.

704
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:53,480
That would be my guess.
He probably thought that he was

705
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:56,160
just simply smarter than.
Them most commonly that's the

706
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:58,840
case, isn't it?
Swango noted that he'd collected

707
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:03,000
articles on the notorious 1978
assassination in London of a

708
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:07,680
Bulgarian political dissident
who it looked like died after

709
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:10,480
being pricked with a ricin
tipped umbrella.

710
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:16,040
Now, it doesn't take much ricin
to kill someone, as you sounds

711
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:20,080
like you may know, but ricin is.
If we don't have that listed on

712
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:23,520
topic, we definitely should.
Yeah, but the other thing is

713
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:25,440
they're not done in the
apartment yet.

714
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:31,400
They confiscated a small arsenal
of weapons, including this guy I

715
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:36,400
just don't even know, including
a Mossberg 12 gauge pump shotgun

716
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:40,360
with combat stock and a llama.
I don't know this brand but a

717
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:44,880
357 magnum revolver.
When they went to check out the

718
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:48,080
local library that he had
recently been in because I guess

719
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:50,000
they had seen the book that he
checked out.

720
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:53,240
It was about a Doctor Who
murdered his wife and a novel

721
00:36:53,240 --> 00:36:55,440
about the poisoning of a city's
food supply.

722
00:36:55,720 --> 00:36:59,280
So they went to the the library
to find out if he had any other

723
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:02,040
books that he checked out
because this again, was in the

724
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:04,400
in the 80s.
So it's not like they could just

725
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:07,240
surf the way right?
Like we tend to have given all

726
00:37:07,240 --> 00:37:09,960
of this.
Oh my goodness, he had another

727
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:11,080
trial.
What?

728
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:12,520
Why I?
Wondered.

729
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:16,000
I know.
So the trial began on April 22nd

730
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:18,600
in 1985 in the Adams County
Courthouse.

731
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:21,040
Swingo waived his right to a
jury trial.

732
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:22,960
Wait, is he a?
Doctor at this point or is he

733
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:24,840
still a paramedic?
He's a doctor.

734
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:28,120
He's a doctor, but he got kicked
out of the last bit of his

735
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:31,280
program but then finished it.
But then when he moved to

736
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:34,200
Illinois, had to apply for
licensure in Illinois, which he

737
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:36,640
did not have.
So that's where he sits.

738
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:40,440
So he was in Adams Court County
Courthouse and guess who the

739
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:43,680
judge was?
Judge Cashman Swangle waived his

740
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:45,320
right to a jury trial, as I
mentioned.

741
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:48,160
And one of the reasons people do
that in the service situation is

742
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:50,080
because jury will be emotionally
swayed.

743
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:54,080
They will often have a better
chance of not being just

744
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:57,080
convicted by a motion.
They'll be more likely to be

745
00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:59,840
convicted by actual evidence if
they have a judge.

746
00:37:59,880 --> 00:38:03,200
Because the the prosecution case
was straightforward, but it was

747
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:05,960
pretty circumstance
circumstantial because no one

748
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:08,320
who actually seen Swango
administering points into

749
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:11,000
anyone.
There is no apparent motive and

750
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:14,720
actually, Swango said the
paramedics were his friends.

751
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:16,840
And I'm like, well, what would
be doing to enemies?

752
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:19,560
Yeah, no kidding.
That was exactly my thought.

753
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:21,760
I was like, gosh, if they're
your friends, I'd not let them

754
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:23,440
know how you treat people that
aren't your friends.

755
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:26,680
No kidding.
During the trial, the paramedics

756
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:28,840
described the events that have
preceded their sudden illnesses

757
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:32,720
and their symptoms, and there
were some forensic scientists

758
00:38:32,720 --> 00:38:36,560
from the Illinois State Crime
Lab that testified.

759
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:40,360
Initial lab reports showed the
president presence of arsenic in

760
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:43,200
both the T sample collected in
the hospital and and the hair

761
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:46,360
samples taken from a paramedic
who to eating a doughnut and had

762
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:49,560
drunk the tainted soda.
So even though they couldn't put

763
00:38:49,720 --> 00:38:54,560
the syringe or the powder in
Swango's hands, they did find

764
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:59,280
that these folks had it in their
bodies because he, Swango also

765
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:02,160
had the Ant killer.
You know, it didn't take a

766
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:04,360
rocket scientist to fill it
figure this out.

767
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:07,320
They did interview a clerk at
the Keller store where he had

768
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:10,000
gotten the rat or the Ant poison
and the other chemicals.

769
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:14,080
They identified Swango and he
was wearing a pair uniform and

770
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:16,400
he had bought 6 bottles of Tarot
Ant Killer.

771
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:19,880
Later on, Swangle say, yeah, but
I had a lot of ants in my house.

772
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:23,040
Oh sure, a lot of ants in my
house.

773
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:26,560
That's a lot of ants.
You realize they can test your

774
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:28,760
floor to see if there was that
poison on it, right?

775
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:32,000
There's some more about that in
a minute.

776
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:35,480
But as the trial proceeded,
Judge Cashman was struck by

777
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:39,960
Swango's neat appearance again.
I mean, Swango did not look like

778
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:44,040
the person that he he was.
He was a suit and a tie.

779
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:48,880
He was calm and he said he was.
Swango was even polite to the

780
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:51,120
judge and others in the
courtroom.

781
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:54,160
He had his mother and a
girlfriend who attended the

782
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:57,840
trial every day.
And he Swango emphatically deny

783
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:01,640
poisoning anyone.
And he took copious notes and

784
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:05,360
conferred often with his lawyer,
which makes me laugh because the

785
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:07,080
lawyer really needs to know what
your opinion is.

786
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:11,360
Though his lawyer was a public
defender and Cook had been.

787
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:15,560
A high school teacher, The
cornerstone of Swango's argument

788
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:18,000
appeared to be that he had
bought the bottles of Toro Ant

789
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:20,760
Killer Combat the ants
infestation like we talked

790
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:22,440
about.
But it was at what he had

791
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:25,360
encountered as previous
apartments in Columbus, OH, and

792
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:29,160
Springfield, IL, and at his
current residence in Quincy.

793
00:40:29,240 --> 00:40:32,120
At one point after his arrest,
when he'd returned from visiting

794
00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:35,640
his brother in Florida, he said
there were so many ants in his

795
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:39,160
apartment that he'd call Cook,
his lawyer, to come witness the

796
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:40,680
ants.
Oh wow.

797
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:44,920
And Cook said no, I can't be a
witness.

798
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:46,080
He.
Said.

799
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:49,560
He said call the exterminator.
I'm sure he followed that up

800
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:52,400
with dude.
So Swango called the

801
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:54,520
exterminator.
But at the trial, the

802
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:57,360
exterminator said these ants he
had encountered encountered in

803
00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:00,200
Swango's apartments were a type
of man common in Florida and the

804
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:03,840
rest of the South, but rarely in
Quincy's harsh winter climates.

805
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:09,120
Oh my God.
Not only were they rarely in

806
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:13,920
Quincy harsh at climates, but
they were never endorsed, so

807
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:17,760
that affected the case anyway.
At the conclusion of the trial,

808
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:21,400
Judge Cashman pronounced Swango
guilty on six of the seven

809
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:24,640
counts acquitting him of
poisoning Mr. K.

810
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:27,560
Two symptoms after eating the
doughnut, he said, appeared

811
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:29,520
inconclusive.
They weren't strong enough to

812
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:33,800
attach to the doughnut itself,
but Mr. K had also been poisoned

813
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:36,480
by other liquid and stuff like
that, so he was probably still

814
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:39,600
had a poisoning to Mr. K.
He was guilty on 6 of the 7

815
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:42,760
counts, and the judge said
Swango's testimony seemed

816
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:45,560
contrived and fabricated.
Well, probably because he was

817
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:49,120
lying as part of the The judge
said the most compelling

818
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:52,200
evidence was the disclosure of
the out of place ants.

819
00:41:52,720 --> 00:41:57,680
Because if that were the case,
then it doesn't make any sense.

820
00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:00,080
And also like there was.
Everything else he said, right?

821
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:02,920
Exactly.
And there was a a bottle of the

822
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:06,120
match, I mean, excuse me, of the
rat golly, I keep on and put

823
00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:10,320
rats in here of the Ant poison.
The bottle of the Ant poison

824
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:13,440
matched exactly the level of
arsenic found in the iced tea,

825
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:16,960
so it was half empty.
And what was in there matched

826
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:20,000
exactly the other half that was
found in the iced tea.

827
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:23,440
Strangely, Swango tended to be
present president when the

828
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:28,160
poisoning occurred and he had
poisoning double bag so seems

829
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:32,360
connected.
And the judge, the judge said a

830
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:36,160
couple of times the things that
he thought was really weird was

831
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:40,200
that Swango had always shown a
more of a curiosity and interest

832
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:42,720
in the symptoms of his victims,
which as we talked about

833
00:42:42,720 --> 00:42:45,680
earlier, each one of the victims
had said he was really

834
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:48,680
interested in my symptoms.
Like so interested that the one

835
00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:51,240
guy hung up on him.
The judge said he felt like

836
00:42:51,240 --> 00:42:54,440
Swango wanted to take all of the
victims just to the edge of

837
00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:56,520
death.
They were like a lab experience.

838
00:42:57,160 --> 00:43:03,160
And August 23rd in 1985, Swango
again was his own principal

839
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:06,200
character witness.
And he delivered a lengthy,

840
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:10,520
often eloquent that he would
give to be given the sentence of

841
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:13,880
probation so he could use his
medical skills to help.

842
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:15,280
Us.
How lovely.

843
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:17,920
After just started gathering,
I'm just putting that in there.

844
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:22,160
I don't know what he did, but
Swango also said, this is this

845
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:25,000
is the part I love.
This is a quote, Swango said.

846
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:28,840
What can I do, Judge Cashman,
and how can I work with you and

847
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:31,720
the court to convince and show
you that I still have great

848
00:43:31,720 --> 00:43:35,520
wealth of good and caring to
return to the society and that I

849
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:39,000
should be allowed with your
trust and the people's trust to

850
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:44,680
reserve that resume, that
service to society and right?

851
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:48,400
Judge Cashman was clearly
baffled, he said, by the nature

852
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:51,000
of the crime and the seemingly
earnest, well-intentioned young

853
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:54,480
doctor before him.
He said to Swango.

854
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:57,320
He said, the judge said, I quite
frankly have come to like you as

855
00:43:57,320 --> 00:44:00,560
an individual, Doctor Swango, it
makes it even more difficult to

856
00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:02,320
understand why you would do
these things.

857
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:06,000
He was sentenced again to five
years in the state penitentiary,

858
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:08,920
which was more serious than the
jail he had been in, and it was

859
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:11,840
the maximum, the term for the
battery, which is what he was

860
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:14,920
convicted for.
It was wild.

861
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:18,440
Swango.
This, this boggles my mind too.

862
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:22,160
During the trial and sentencing,
Swango actually applied in

863
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:25,640
person for and obtained a
position in northern Ohio as an

864
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:29,920
emergency room position while he
was waiting for this action.

865
00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:32,600
Rights.
And this action was in violation

866
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:35,480
of the terms of his bail bond
which required him to stay in

867
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:37,240
Illinois except for court
approved trips.

868
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:41,680
So he went to apply in Ohio, got
a accepted and hired, but

869
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:45,880
revoked his bail bond because he
was out of the state, which was

870
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:48,680
wild.
Anyway, the other thing, this is

871
00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:50,560
going to boggle your mind as
well.

872
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:54,400
Michael was hired.
This was the emergency room

873
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:58,840
director in Ohio and said
Michael was hired by Robert

874
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:01,360
Holler, the Second, a regional
vice president of National

875
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:04,480
Emergency Services, which
recruited emergency room doctors

876
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:07,520
for several hospitals.
During the sentencing hearing,

877
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:09,520
Holler testified as character
witnesses.

878
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:15,800
Swango get this, He said Swango
had, at four different hospitals

879
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:18,440
had received above standard
evaluations.

880
00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:21,040
He said that he had dismissed
him only when the news of the

881
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:25,560
trial hit the papers because, he
said, if it were not for bad

882
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:28,080
publicity, he would tire Swango
again.

883
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:36,200
No kidding.
And then the prosecutors was

884
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:38,920
stunned, it said.
And he said, even though he's

885
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:41,040
been convicted, you would rehire
him?

886
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:43,240
Haller said.
Yes, if it were up to me, I

887
00:45:43,240 --> 00:45:45,200
would.
I feel like if there's a whole

888
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:48,320
background check situation that
goes with hiring doctors.

889
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:52,480
No kidding.
Swango's lawyer questioned

890
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:56,360
Tyler, too, and he said, again,
I would personally have no

891
00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:58,640
problems at all, he said.
It's the public that comes to

892
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:01,640
the hospital, but find it, you
know it would create a problem.

893
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:05,640
The what?
My God, I wouldn't ingest

894
00:46:05,640 --> 00:46:07,840
anything.
I wouldn't allow an IVI mean,

895
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:09,960
what would be the point of even
being in the hospital?

896
00:46:10,240 --> 00:46:14,160
Exactly.
Oh is whack a doodle Anyway,

897
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:17,680
because of the things that came
up in the court trial in Quincy

898
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:20,920
Swango's earlier behavior Ohio
is reexamined.

899
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:23,720
Authorities asked the Ohio State
University of Police for help in

900
00:46:23,720 --> 00:46:26,000
looking into Stangos Swangos
background.

901
00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:30,680
They said that investigation
took a life of on the life of

902
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:33,440
its own.
So some of this just makes me

903
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:36,760
laugh although it should make me
try probably it does that too a

904
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:38,400
little.
The following February.

905
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:41,960
So he was he was convicted to
this in September I believe.

906
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:44,640
And the following February,
excuse me.

907
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:48,040
And the following October they
found some more stuff that was

908
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:49,800
going on.
University police learned that

909
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:52,800
Swango had a storage locker in
Columbus, and they requested

910
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:56,520
Franklin County, Ohio, Assistant
prosecuting attorney named

911
00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:59,520
Edward Morgan, just for
information to help prepare and

912
00:46:59,720 --> 00:47:01,760
execute a search warrant for the
locker.

913
00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:04,480
Because they already found that
all that stuff in his apartment,

914
00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:05,880
right?
So now they're going, what else

915
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:08,520
could he be doing?
Well, what you might be

916
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:12,360
surprised to find out is the
contents included an M16

917
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:17,760
firearm, clips and 200 rounds of
blank machine gun ammunition.

918
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:22,520
That is OK something.
Right.

919
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:26,600
Another thing that is wild is
the police at the university

920
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:30,040
tried to maintain a discreet and
low profile investigation.

921
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:31,240
I'm like what's?
That for, yeah.

922
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:33,680
What are you?
Who are you trying to protect?

923
00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:37,880
But Morgan and his investigators
became increasingly concerned by

924
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:41,440
mounting evidence to Swango also
that he might be linked to a

925
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:43,520
series of deaths at Ohio State
Hospital.

926
00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:46,640
So they're like, no go, man.
We're doing this investigation.

927
00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:51,240
Morgan's investigation was later
summarized by him to report that

928
00:47:51,240 --> 00:47:54,200
the Franklin County Prosecuting
Attorney established that Doctor

929
00:47:54,200 --> 00:47:57,440
Swango had been worn by Ohio
State University officials in

930
00:47:57,440 --> 00:48:02,400
early January of 19 84 that his
performance was unsatisfactory.

931
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:04,640
Unless it improved, his
appointment would not be renewed

932
00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:07,040
for a second year.
This is what Morgan, the

933
00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:10,960
investigator thought is that the
set back to Swango and his

934
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:14,640
career might have triggered a
violent reaction from Swango.

935
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:16,800
So we were talking about what
were the red flags and how did

936
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:18,840
this happen.
They think that maybe that was

937
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:21,680
it by him being told forget
about it, you can't do this.

938
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:24,360
In the following days and weeks,
the hospital recorded a number

939
00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:26,440
of mysterious deaths and near
fatalities.

940
00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:29,360
This was in 1984.
I wanted to explain a little bit

941
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:31,960
about one of them.
One that I'm going to mention

942
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:34,920
right now occurred on the the
night of January 14th.

943
00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:38,760
And witnesses noticed and
recalled that Doctor Swango went

944
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:42,400
to draw blood from a young woman
named Cynthia McGee And she had

945
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:45,520
recently been transferred to the
hospital from out of state and

946
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:47,520
she's been hit by a car while
riding her bike at the

947
00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:49,960
University of Illinois.
So I imagine this hospital must

948
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:53,640
have been a trauma level 1.
So she got transferred I that's

949
00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:55,800
my guess anyway.
She'd been hit by a car by

950
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:57,640
riding a bike.
She'd been unconscious.

951
00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:00,280
But by the time of her transfer,
she appeared to be aware of

952
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:02,200
environment, looking around and
said a few words.

953
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:05,120
About midnight.
Half an hour later, Doctor

954
00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:07,720
Swangle left the room he had
been in to draw blood.

955
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:10,040
And then about 1/2 an hour later
he left.

956
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:11,360
And that's how that was
interesting too.

957
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:13,360
The.
Doctor was just going to say.

958
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:16,480
I was just going to say I would
be very curious to know if that

959
00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:20,840
was normal practice in 1985 or
whatever urine is, because yeah,

960
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:23,760
no doctors are drawing blood in
the hospital these days.

961
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:25,880
Exactly.
And so that seemed odd.

962
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:29,760
And a nurse discovered the McGee
had a pale, dusty blue English

963
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:32,760
look and alerted a doctor and
called a code blue.

964
00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:34,760
Of course, that required
emergency response.

965
00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:38,120
Doctor Swango didn't respond,
but other doctors did.

966
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:42,840
McGee was pronounced dead and a
subsequent autopsy cited cardio

967
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:45,800
pulmonary arrest due to insipid
pneumonia.

968
00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:47,960
The nurse on duty later
expressed surprise at the

969
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:51,600
autopsy report because she had
seen no signs of pneumonia.

970
00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:54,720
So that was weird.
And then this was that have been

971
00:49:56,480 --> 00:50:00,800
that was at the Ohio hospital
and then 60 that's right, secret

972
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:03,240
a secret pneumonia.
It has no symptoms.

973
00:50:03,520 --> 00:50:07,520
Anyway, so 60 later, a group of
doctors were doing their rounds

974
00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:10,480
and it was about 6:00 and they
came to check on several

975
00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:13,680
patients sharing a room.
One of them was 21 year old auto

976
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:17,920
accident victim who was called
Richard Delong in case you want

977
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:20,680
to know that later.
And he was in a coma but had

978
00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:22,800
recently been taken out of
intensive care after his

979
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:25,200
condition stabilized.
Apparently he was breathing

980
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:28,720
oxygen through a tracheostea me
tube and he must have come off

981
00:50:28,720 --> 00:50:31,280
his vent and such seemed to be
resting comfortably and had been

982
00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:33,200
checked by the respiratory
therapist and everybody was

983
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:35,120
going all right, well, we'll
just wait for him to recover

984
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:37,840
basically.
And he was in a multi bedroom,

985
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:42,280
which wasn't was something
different to nowadays in in a

986
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:46,880
basically a step down from ICU.
Anyway, apparently Swanga walked

987
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:51,000
over to the bed and said to the
respiratory therapist, I think

988
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:53,920
your patient's dead.
They went to resuscitate him and

989
00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:56,200
nothing worked.
Another Doctor Who was present

990
00:50:56,200 --> 00:50:59,720
later was present said later.
It was a surprise to us that he

991
00:50:59,720 --> 00:51:03,120
was in stable condition and one
evening when we went on rounds

992
00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:05,600
he wasn't breathing anymore.
Yeah, that's wild.

993
00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:08,880
Yeah, it was wild.
And so Doctor Swango, and I'm

994
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:11,800
not even really sure how Swango
got involved in this case, but

995
00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:15,720
he notified Delong's family his
death and had talked to the

996
00:51:15,720 --> 00:51:19,000
guy's wife on the phone.
When the family arrived, Doctor

997
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:21,240
Swango, in the presence of
another doctor, told them that

998
00:51:21,240 --> 00:51:23,400
Delong had died from a heart
attack.

999
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:27,720
No autopsy was performed, right?
Delong's wife said she actually

1000
00:51:27,720 --> 00:51:30,360
requested one in writing, but
the coroner office said they had

1001
00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:34,400
no request on record, not until
almost a year and a half later,

1002
00:51:34,720 --> 00:51:38,400
as a result of this inquiry with
Morgan, because Swango was

1003
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:42,480
starting to become notorious for
the poisonings and also weird

1004
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:46,480
things happening.
They exhumed Delong's body and

1005
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:49,760
the coroner found a wad of
surgical gauze in Delong's

1006
00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:53,840
trachea.
Oh my God.

1007
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:56,120
Oh, he.
Basically suffocated the guy.

1008
00:51:56,520 --> 00:51:59,240
I mean, he was.
So this guy's in a coma and

1009
00:51:59,240 --> 00:52:02,640
apparently Swango stuffed a
piece of gauze in his trachea

1010
00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:06,120
and made him die.
The cause of death was changed

1011
00:52:06,120 --> 00:52:08,400
to homicide.
Two other deaths.

1012
00:52:08,720 --> 00:52:11,520
It doesn't end here.
Two other deaths were regarded

1013
00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:14,160
as suspicious.
But it was the case of a patient

1014
00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:17,080
named Rena Cooper.
And she was 69 years old,

1015
00:52:17,080 --> 00:52:20,760
admissions hospital, suffering
from low back pain that caused

1016
00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:23,760
some concern.
And so she went to the hospital,

1017
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:27,280
had been inpatient.
And on the 7th, just before

1018
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:30,440
seven, it was reported Missus
Cooper, who was sharing a room

1019
00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:33,480
with another patient, as is
typical apparently at that

1020
00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:36,200
hospital, to serve dinner and
give him some painkillers.

1021
00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:38,160
OK, seems reasonable.
She's got back pain.

1022
00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:42,080
A group of doctors, including
Swango, arrived on the rounds

1023
00:52:42,080 --> 00:52:45,080
between 8:00 and 9:00 PM.
And there was a student nurse,

1024
00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:48,560
Carolyn, who came into the room
shortly after 9 and saw Doctor

1025
00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:52,160
Swango standing alone by Missus
Cooper's bed with his back

1026
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:53,800
turned.
And she said it looked like he

1027
00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:55,560
was putting something in his IV,
her IV.

1028
00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:57,880
She told that to investigators
later.

1029
00:52:57,960 --> 00:53:01,240
It was almost a year later this
came out when this investigation

1030
00:53:01,240 --> 00:53:04,240
happened.
And she said, I knew she, he was

1031
00:53:04,240 --> 00:53:06,600
putting something in.
You can just tell, she said.

1032
00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:11,680
But she left but stood nearby.
And two minutes later, she heard

1033
00:53:11,680 --> 00:53:14,840
the bed rails rattling in the
room and Missus Cooper's

1034
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:17,040
roommate screaming when Barry
entered.

1035
00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:19,400
Barry was the nurse.
The roommate told her there's

1036
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:21,280
something wrong.
Missus Cooper was turning blue

1037
00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:24,160
and White wasn't breathing, so
the nurse immediately called for

1038
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:25,680
help.
Other nurses doctors came

1039
00:53:25,680 --> 00:53:27,160
rushing in the room and called
it called blue.

1040
00:53:27,240 --> 00:53:30,520
The student nurse who is the one
who went in initially to help

1041
00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:33,040
told them she had just seen
Doctor Swango injecting

1042
00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:36,320
something into Mrs. Coopers IV.
But she said later they didn't

1043
00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:39,000
believe me, maybe especially was
a student nurse and they

1044
00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:40,520
thought, well, you don't know
what he was doing.

1045
00:53:40,880 --> 00:53:44,360
And so that's why she reiterated
a year later that's what she had

1046
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:46,840
seen.
And this they believed because

1047
00:53:46,840 --> 00:53:48,480
they were doing the
investigation.

1048
00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:51,680
So things are getting sketchier
and sketchier by the minute,

1049
00:53:51,680 --> 00:53:54,280
right?
It's like, but I can still see

1050
00:53:54,280 --> 00:53:57,040
how there would be some trouble
linking these things just.

1051
00:53:57,040 --> 00:53:58,080
Right.
I mean.

1052
00:53:58,240 --> 00:54:00,000
Until all the cards started
stacking up.

1053
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:03,880
I remember this hospital didn't
know what had happened before.

1054
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:07,040
These are still sort of
coincidentally guns.

1055
00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:10,600
There is an attending doctor,
Arnold Bragel, and he was the

1056
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:12,480
head of the surgery residents at
Ohio State.

1057
00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:15,560
And he later described Missus
Cooper Cooper's condition.

1058
00:54:15,560 --> 00:54:18,680
He said at the time we saw her,
she was not breathing, she was

1059
00:54:18,680 --> 00:54:20,320
unconscious.
She had no movements to

1060
00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:23,920
stimulate even deep pain.
She didn't even, he said, as I

1061
00:54:23,920 --> 00:54:26,480
recall, have any reflexes.
A condition he said that was

1062
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:29,800
consistent with a paralyzing
drug, which should not have been

1063
00:54:29,800 --> 00:54:34,320
in her system, right?
Another side event, if it will.

1064
00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:38,200
The nurse's aide saw Swango
emerge from a room 4 days, 4

1065
00:54:38,200 --> 00:54:40,560
doors away and around the corner
from a commotion in Mrs.

1066
00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:42,640
Cooper's room.
So while all of this was

1067
00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:44,400
happening, Mrs. Cooper was
dying.

1068
00:54:44,560 --> 00:54:47,400
Swango was in another room.
The nurse said he had a goofy

1069
00:54:47,400 --> 00:54:50,080
look on his face, like a kid
with his fingers in the cookie

1070
00:54:50,080 --> 00:54:53,400
jar, and he said he had this big
grin on his face.

1071
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:56,240
She thought it was weird.
She went into the room that

1072
00:54:56,240 --> 00:54:59,360
Doctor Swango had come out of
and found a large syringe, its

1073
00:54:59,360 --> 00:55:01,680
plunger fully depressed, lying
in the sink.

1074
00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:04,920
This person was an aide.
And she summoned a nurse and

1075
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:07,520
pointed out the syringe.
So the nurse picked it up with a

1076
00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:11,240
paper towel, good, wrapped it,
wrapped it up, put it underneath

1077
00:55:11,240 --> 00:55:12,720
the sink there.
And she looked at me and said,

1078
00:55:12,720 --> 00:55:15,400
OK, I'm putting this right here.
You're my witness.

1079
00:55:15,560 --> 00:55:19,120
And then she, the nurse, took
the wrapped syringe and put it

1080
00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:22,680
in attache case, briefcase, as
it were at this time, and gave

1081
00:55:22,680 --> 00:55:23,760
it to the head nurse on the
floor.

1082
00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:26,240
And the head nurse discussed it
with the attending neurosurgeon,

1083
00:55:26,400 --> 00:55:29,440
and that's where it went.
So hold that thought.

1084
00:55:29,440 --> 00:55:34,680
And then it's happening again.
While Missus Cooper was dying in

1085
00:55:34,680 --> 00:55:37,560
Missus Cooper's room, the
medical team did revive her by

1086
00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:40,080
administering oxygen.
But she couldn't speak.

1087
00:55:40,320 --> 00:55:43,320
And she had a breathing tube
down her throat, of course.

1088
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:45,920
But through gestures, she
indicated something.

1089
00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:48,160
And a nurse gave her a pencil
and a paper.

1090
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:51,080
And the nurse said she wrote,
someone came in and put

1091
00:55:51,080 --> 00:55:53,600
something in my IV.
And remember, the student nurse

1092
00:55:53,600 --> 00:55:55,200
had said he was putting
something in the IV.

1093
00:55:56,320 --> 00:55:59,120
Misses Cooper herself later
recalled that she was unsure

1094
00:55:59,120 --> 00:56:00,640
whether the person was a man or
a one.

1095
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:04,400
She just knew that they were
blonde and looked to her like a

1096
00:56:04,720 --> 00:56:09,320
white Angel of death.
Oh no, what a horrifying

1097
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:11,240
experience.
No kidding.

1098
00:56:12,200 --> 00:56:14,880
I don't know that I could ever
trust a medical facility.

1099
00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:17,880
Yeah, seriously.
Anyway, she misses Cooper said

1100
00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:20,720
immediately after that, she felt
a blackness in her left hand,

1101
00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:23,320
which I don't know what that
means exactly, but she said it

1102
00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:25,520
felt like a blackness in her
left hand where the IV was

1103
00:56:25,520 --> 00:56:28,480
inserted.
And the feeling went up her left

1104
00:56:28,480 --> 00:56:30,880
arm and then to the right side
of her body.

1105
00:56:30,920 --> 00:56:32,200
And she became frightened, she
said.

1106
00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:33,720
And she discovered she couldn't
speak.

1107
00:56:34,040 --> 00:56:36,160
She began to shake the bed rail
to make noise and attract

1108
00:56:36,160 --> 00:56:38,600
attention.
And then she lost consciousness.

1109
00:56:39,120 --> 00:56:41,920
How scary.
Oh, my gosh.

1110
00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:44,160
Oh, my goodness.
Edward Morgan, who's doing this

1111
00:56:44,160 --> 00:56:47,080
investigation a year and a half
later, learned that during the

1112
00:56:47,080 --> 00:56:49,640
week of Missus Cooper's
mysterious respiratory arrest at

1113
00:56:49,640 --> 00:56:52,880
Ohio State University, the
hospitals held three meetings to

1114
00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:55,280
review Doctor Swango's
performance in the Cooper case.

1115
00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:58,720
The Inquirer group included
several administrators and

1116
00:56:58,720 --> 00:57:01,920
doctors in the hospital's
lawyer, an assistant attorney

1117
00:57:01,920 --> 00:57:04,840
general assigned to the
university, but only one nurse.

1118
00:57:05,040 --> 00:57:08,520
And she was a supervisory nurse.
She was the one who had demanded

1119
00:57:08,520 --> 00:57:11,240
the review.
So everybody else is going and

1120
00:57:12,160 --> 00:57:15,440
she demanded the review.
One of the physicians, Dr.

1121
00:57:15,440 --> 00:57:18,200
Whitcomb, was assigned the task
of reviewing the information and

1122
00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:21,120
told the group he believed that
Missus Cooper, far from being an

1123
00:57:21,120 --> 00:57:24,640
injected with an aesthetic or
anesthetic or poison, had

1124
00:57:24,640 --> 00:57:27,000
suffered a grand Mal seizure and
been paralyzed immediately

1125
00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:28,000
after.
Right.

1126
00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:31,200
OK, that's so.
Such a normal response to a

1127
00:57:31,200 --> 00:57:34,840
groundwell seizure.
Right, no kidding.

1128
00:57:35,320 --> 00:57:38,200
But later, an internal report by
the hospital revealed that the

1129
00:57:38,200 --> 00:57:42,520
group had spoken with a trained
anesthesiologist and would later

1130
00:57:42,520 --> 00:57:45,840
learn that Missus Cooper's
symptoms were not consistent

1131
00:57:45,840 --> 00:57:49,200
with a seizure, but the
injection of either a cure or or

1132
00:57:49,200 --> 00:57:52,400
other paralytic Interior IV.
Both of them are often in the

1133
00:57:52,400 --> 00:57:55,120
hospital, well, always in the
hospitals for intubation and

1134
00:57:55,120 --> 00:57:57,960
things like that.
Obviously, they can be used if

1135
00:57:58,240 --> 00:58:02,720
dangerous, if used singly and
also in conjunction, they can be

1136
00:58:02,720 --> 00:58:05,320
deadly, especially if they're
not monitored.

1137
00:58:05,360 --> 00:58:07,880
Swango was asked by three
doctors if he had injected

1138
00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:09,920
anything to Mrs. Troop, Mrs.
Cooper's four.

1139
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:13,400
He said no, but he did offer a
different explanation to each of

1140
00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:14,960
them.
No, I didn't do it.

1141
00:58:14,960 --> 00:58:17,680
But to one, he said that he was
never in Mrs. Cooper's room.

1142
00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:21,160
To another, he said he entered a
room at either her or her, her

1143
00:58:21,160 --> 00:58:23,520
roommate's request to retrieve
some slippers.

1144
00:58:23,520 --> 00:58:26,240
Because, you know, I always ask
my doctor to come in and get my

1145
00:58:26,240 --> 00:58:29,760
slippers for me.
And then the the 3rd doctor, he

1146
00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:32,280
said that he'd enter the room to
draw blood.

1147
00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:35,160
He never asked.
No one ever asked him about the

1148
00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:38,120
inconsistencies.
So they may have all three asked

1149
00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:41,600
them, but nobody did anything
about it, which is awesome.

1150
00:58:42,640 --> 00:58:46,160
No one asked anyone about the
empty syringe the nurses have

1151
00:58:46,160 --> 00:58:48,520
preserved.
About six months later, the head

1152
00:58:48,520 --> 00:58:51,440
nurse threw the syringe away.
No one ever collected it from

1153
00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:52,720
me.
She said she had told people

1154
00:58:52,720 --> 00:58:54,880
about it, but nobody ever wanted
it or anything.

1155
00:58:55,360 --> 00:58:58,400
And she said she had even asked
someone, do you think it's OK?

1156
00:58:58,400 --> 00:59:01,160
They said she told she talked to
the University of Police

1157
00:59:01,160 --> 00:59:03,840
investigators and she asked
somebody, do you think it's OK

1158
00:59:03,840 --> 00:59:05,960
to throw it away?
And they said, well, sure, it's

1159
00:59:05,960 --> 00:59:06,880
gone now.
It's over with.

1160
00:59:07,080 --> 00:59:09,680
So I threw it away.
So the biggest piece of evidence

1161
00:59:09,680 --> 00:59:14,080
was now gone.
And Morgan, who's investigating

1162
00:59:14,080 --> 00:59:16,720
all this, said he was beside
himself to learn about the loss

1163
00:59:16,720 --> 00:59:20,120
of such crucial evidence.
He said it was incredibly

1164
00:59:20,120 --> 00:59:22,320
frustrating.
If they had been contacted at

1165
00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:24,640
the time, they would have had
the evidence and that would have

1166
00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:27,160
really sealed the deal, but they
didn't have it.

1167
00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:31,200
He said he was just astounded on
so many levels that these things

1168
00:59:31,200 --> 00:59:34,480
happened and that when the group
was investigating Swango, they

1169
00:59:34,480 --> 00:59:36,880
didn't call any of the witnesses
for their statements or

1170
00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:39,160
anything.
They had one nurse and she was

1171
00:59:39,160 --> 00:59:42,840
the nurse director, which like I
said, she requested the review,

1172
00:59:42,840 --> 00:59:45,360
which is good because she was
the only one who did, but they

1173
00:59:45,360 --> 00:59:47,040
still, she hadn't been there
that day.

1174
00:59:47,080 --> 00:59:50,640
They just didn't know, right?
Morgan said that he concluded

1175
00:59:50,640 --> 00:59:51,960
the hospitals didn't want to
know.

1176
00:59:52,200 --> 00:59:54,760
They just wanted him out of the
hospital because by then I

1177
00:59:54,760 --> 00:59:56,720
everybody knew they knew
something was going on, but they

1178
00:59:56,720 --> 01:00:00,600
weren't willing to deal with it.
Their main concern were the

1179
01:00:00,600 --> 01:00:03,560
legal issues, Doctor Whitcomb,
who was in charge of the group,

1180
01:00:03,560 --> 01:00:05,600
said.
What we did, we presented the

1181
01:00:05,600 --> 01:00:08,720
information we had to the lawyer
who is providing advice and this

1182
01:00:08,720 --> 01:00:10,640
is his quote.
Based on the information that

1183
01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:13,040
was available was his opinion.
There were no grounds for us to

1184
01:00:13,040 --> 01:00:16,120
take any action against Doctor
Swango and there was no other

1185
01:00:16,120 --> 01:00:18,120
investigation needed to be
carried forward.

1186
01:00:20,160 --> 01:00:24,440
Shaking my head because I'm
almost speechless.

1187
01:00:24,440 --> 01:00:26,400
Like cannot.
How can it possibly be

1188
01:00:26,400 --> 01:00:29,200
conclusion.
It's no kidding.

1189
01:00:29,200 --> 01:00:32,120
Well I've said 4% on the podcast
that healthcare for profit is

1190
01:00:32,120 --> 01:00:36,320
crime against humanity, so
lawyers should help involve

1191
01:00:36,360 --> 01:00:40,400
healthcare decision making.
No, Morgan asked this lawyer

1192
01:00:40,520 --> 01:00:43,000
later about the advice.
The lawyer insisted it was the

1193
01:00:43,000 --> 01:00:46,200
doctors who, after hearing the
report by Doctor Whitcomb,

1194
01:00:46,200 --> 01:00:48,400
indicated there would be no
further in house investigation

1195
01:00:48,400 --> 01:00:51,160
or further inquiry.
That'll buy it at any event.

1196
01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:55,200
On February 14th, the group
concluded that Doctor Swango

1197
01:00:55,200 --> 01:00:58,640
should be permitted to return to
patient care immediately, but

1198
01:00:58,640 --> 01:01:03,080
with greater supervision.
This is not the end of the

1199
01:01:03,080 --> 01:01:05,560
story.
This episode is going to go into

1200
01:01:05,560 --> 01:01:08,400
two parts.
Yeah, OK, good.

1201
01:01:08,720 --> 01:01:12,520
I mean horrible, not good.
But wow, I can't believe there's

1202
01:01:12,520 --> 01:01:15,760
enough information for a whole.
Second episode, I know it's.

1203
01:01:16,040 --> 01:01:17,680
Wild.
It's wild.

1204
01:01:17,680 --> 01:01:20,120
So you, everybody hold on to
your hats.

1205
01:01:20,120 --> 01:01:23,200
This is going to continue.
Awesome thank.

1206
01:01:23,360 --> 01:01:25,920
Very interested for the next
installment.

1207
01:01:27,080 --> 01:01:28,360
Thank you.
All right.

1208
01:01:28,360 --> 01:01:31,280
If you've made it this far,
clearly you like a little mayhem

1209
01:01:31,280 --> 01:01:33,640
with your medicine.
Or you just enjoy hearing us

1210
01:01:33,640 --> 01:01:35,520
ramble about weird medical
mysteries.

1211
01:01:35,800 --> 01:01:37,400
Either way, we'd love you for
it.

1212
01:01:37,600 --> 01:01:40,280
So hit that follow or subscribe
button wherever you're

1213
01:01:40,280 --> 01:01:42,200
listening.
And toss us a rating or review

1214
01:01:42,200 --> 01:01:45,200
while you're at it.
Helps other curious weirdos find

1215
01:01:45,200 --> 01:01:47,520
the show.
And we know there are a lot of

1216
01:01:47,520 --> 01:01:49,640
you out there.
Oh so many.

1217
01:01:49,880 --> 01:01:52,040
Come join the chaos.
Thanks for listening to

1218
01:01:52,040 --> 01:01:55,160
Medicine, Mystery, mayhem, and
sometimes Murder.

1219
01:01:55,480 --> 01:01:58,000
Do you have an idea for an
episode of this podcast?

1220
01:01:58,360 --> 01:02:01,160
Just want to say hi.
You can get in touch with us at

1221
01:02:01,160 --> 01:02:05,120
Power M4 Pod.
That's OUR

1222
01:02:05,400 --> 01:02:11,840
m.thenumberfourpod@gmail.com.
We read every e-mail, and

1223
01:02:11,840 --> 01:02:15,160
sometimes we even respond just
like real professionals.

1224
01:02:15,280 --> 01:02:19,720
Because we are.
Old friends with new twists and

1225
01:02:19,720 --> 01:02:21,280
lots of body bags.