Ep. 7: Not My Favorite Mistake

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Welcome to M4 Medicine, mystery,
mayhem, and sometimes murder.

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I'm Andrea Marciano and RN with
35 years of experience across

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various fields.
From direct patient care in

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hospitals to home health,
geriatrics, and injury medicine,

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I face life, death, and
everything in between.

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And I'm Crystal Miller and RN
with 13 1/2 years of experience.

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My work spans home health,
Hospice, emergency care,

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geriatrics, and occupational
health.

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From the chaos of trauma based
quiet moments with patients,

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I've seen stories that defy
explanations.

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We've been friends for over 25
years and as nurses we've shared

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countless stories that have left
us and our families speechless.

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Now we're bringing those stories
and many more to you in

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medicine, mystery, mayhem, and
sometimes murder.

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Each week, we'll uncover cases
that challenge the boundaries of

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medicine, sharing the human
stories behind the science.

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From puzzling medical mysteries
to shocking real life crimes,

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we'll bring you stories that'll
leave you questioning everything

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you thought you knew.
While we're both experienced

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nurses, we want to make make it
clear we're not here to give

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medical advice.
This podcast is about

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storytelling, education and
exploration, not diagnosing or

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treating medical conditions.
This is medicine, mystery,

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mayhem, and sometimes murder.
Let's dive in.

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Hey, Crystal, how are you doing?
I'm.

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Doing really well.
How are you?

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I'm good.
Thank you.

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Anything exciting going on for
you I.

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Finally sold my house in Salt
Lake.

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It's only been three years.
My gosh, yeah.

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So I'm buying a new house here
in Oklahoma.

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I live in Norman.
Right now.

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The house I'm buying is in
Moore, which is like it's the

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neighboring city.
So like it's the Orem to Provo.

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Basically.
So for those of you who don't

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know what I'm talking about, I'm
talking about cities in Utah

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that border each other that
Andrea and I are familiar with

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and those of you in Utah are
probably familiar with.

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Yeah, but it's actually, yeah,
it's actually pretty similar in

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reality because Norman is a
college town, Provo is a college

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town.
More is not Orem is not.

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Well, practically the same
thing, even though sometimes,

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well, good.
Congratulations.

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That's awesome.
Thank you I'm super excited.

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Can't wait to be out of this
house that I live in that is

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trash.
It's trash because it's I've had

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a flood that was about 3 inches
deep on Christmas Eve and I've

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had a pipe burst that was
another flood that was about an

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inch deep.
The gas wasn't installed even

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though there is a gas heater so
I had no heat at the beginning

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of winter.
I had a window so awful.

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I had a window that when it
rained it just poured water in,

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so I had that.
There are water problems.

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Good heavens.
And.

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Then last and then last but not
least my my bedroom.

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I wish I had a level actually
because my bedroom is so steeped

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float sloped.
Thank you.

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It's so sloped that I had to put
like 3 stacks of folded up

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cardboard so so 6 layers of of
thick cardboard underneath my

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dresser just to keep the drawers
closed.

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Well, I don't know why you'd
want to move that all sounds.

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Pretty It has really been
something.

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Yeah, I get both.
Had a few little hiccups with

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our living situations lately.
Indeed, indeed.

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That's awesome.
Bluer skies ahead, right?

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Yes.
Ma'am.

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Yes, ma'am.
Well, what do you have for us

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today?
Today I thought I would talk

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about medical mistakes and
specifically in today's episode,

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mistakes of amputating incorrect
limbs.

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First of all, I want to say
something a little bit

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unrelated, but I have.
I've tried a lot in podcasting

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to not make mistakes and to be
perfect and well.

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But I just want to say having
listened now to many many many

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podcasts, I feel OK making dumb
mistakes like I just made.

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So forgive me for being human,
if if you will, I will, I will

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make mistakes, but just wanted
to say that also, just a

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reminder, this is not medical
advice.

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This is storytelling.
The first one I want to talk

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about is Willie King.
And this happened in, I was in

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1945.
It did not, it happened in 1995

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and it happened in Florida.
And so King was a 51 year old

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man who had diabetes.
He'd had it for 20 years and he

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was scheduled to have his right
foot amputated because it was

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just unsavable.
And for those of you who don't

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know the, the relation between
diabetes and amputating limbs,

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let me give you just a brief
history and or brief overview.

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And then I think Andrea could
probably chime in things that I

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may forget.
So diabetes, OK, one of the

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greatest things that I ever
learned in nursing school that

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made me really understand
diabetes was, was in my anatomy

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and Physiology class.
And I want to preface that this

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is a very, very rough
description or comparison or

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metaphor or whatever you want to
call it.

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It's very, very rough.
OK, so this I am not giving you

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scientific facts about diabetes.
I'm giving you a way to think

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about it.
OK, so here's what here's what

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my professors taught me and I
really like it.

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So diabetes is like if you have
insulin, your body's making

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insulin, sugar comes into your
blood, the insulin binds to it,

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and then all of that gets wasted
away, right?

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Distributed into the body and
then wasted away.

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However, it works.
So what happens with diabetes is

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instead of consider insulin
covered sugar, insulin linked

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sugar.
I can't think of the right word.

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Why can't I think of it insulin
converted sugar, I don't know.

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Anyway, consider that an M&M.
So inside is the chocolate,

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right?
And on the outside, you have the

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candy shell.
And So what happens when you

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don't have diabetes is the
chocolate comes through the

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bloodstream, the insulin comes
over, covers it, and then again,

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it gets distributed where it
needs to go wasted.

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All of you know it does.
Your body does with it what it's

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supposed to.
So what happens when you have

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diabetes is that your chocolate
comes through your body makes

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insulin and covers it in a candy
shell.

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And then what happens instead of
it just going through to the

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body, it only sort of takes off
the candy shell.

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And so when it comes through the
next time, it's still got a

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candy shell on it.
But then your body says, I got

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to add a candy shell to this.
And So what happens is that

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builds up in this weird, like I
don't know what to do with this.

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And so your body then says, I
don't I don't think I need to

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make this anymore because I have
an abundance, right?

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I have so much.
Why?

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OK.
And then why that causes things

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like neuropathy?
And neuropathy is very

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specifically nerve malfunction
and it in diabetics, it

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typically happens in the feet
first.

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And, and So what happens is they
lose the feeling in their feet

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and they can get injuries that
they don't feel.

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They can get cuts.
Diabetics are not supposed to

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cut their own toenails because
they can, you know, cut just a

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minor cut to the skin or the
quick can turn into an amputated

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foot.
And they're not supposed to go

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without shoes or anything.
Like that, Yeah.

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And.
Not even in the house.

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The reason is because they don't
feel that and so they don't do

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anything to address it.
And then on top of that,

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diabetes already limits your
immune system.

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So their body is already, you
know, handicapped and trying to

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address that.
And it festers and it gets

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worse.
And all of a sudden, I mean, I'm

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sure we as nurses have have seen
some pretty nasty diabetic

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neuropathy feet, right?
I mean, they can, they can even

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get, they can even get to the
point of gangrene where it's

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like, I mean, I've dressed some
feet that just taking the

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dressing off is like, I don't
even want to breathe for the

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next 20 seconds.
It's so bad.

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And they, and the reason that
we're dressing those and not

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just automatically amputating
them is because the amputation

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is at extreme measure.
And sometimes with the help of

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antibiotics and dressing and
caretaking etcetera, they can

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recover.
And we don't want to take off a

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limb or anything, a toe even
that somebody doesn't need to

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take off.
They're there for a reason.

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Yeah, exactly.
Am I going to faster?

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Is this OK?
I think it's great.

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OK, good.
I just kind of feel like I'm

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like, rushing through it kind of
because it's not really the

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topic.
I guess This is why.

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Good overview.
Yeah.

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Yeah.
So what happens is these feet

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are limbs.
I mean, it can sometimes go all

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the way up depending on the
person and their circumstances,

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etcetera.
Sometimes it can go all the way

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up to the knee.
You know, if there can come a

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point when there's just no way
that even a supported immune

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system, meaning supported with
antibiotics, whether they're

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oral, intravenous, A topical, it
just can't be healed.

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Yeah, even with proper blood
sugar control it still cannot

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work.
I had a patient one time when I

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was working in the hospital who
would come in at about 6 month

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intervals for another amputation
and then another amputation

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because he would cover his sugar
eating with insulin.

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And for what you just described
it didn't work for obvious

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reasons.
He may have, for the moment,

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brought his sugar down, but it
wasn't a solution and so he

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basically killed himself.
My grandpa used to do that.

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He'd eat a whole pie and then
just dose up on insulin.

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My dad would get really mad at
him.

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Yeah, yeah, it doesn't work
anyway, sorry.

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Go ahead.
No, that's OK.

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So we don't like to amputate
unless absolutely necessary.

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So we don't like to amputate if
we don't have to.

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Just sometimes there comes a
point when it has to be done.

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What happened in the case of
Willie King is again, he had

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diabetes for 20 years.
His right foot was scheduled to

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be amputated on February 20th of
1995.

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He went to surgery and when he
came came out, he said, doctor,

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that's the wrong leg.
Oh, that's a real bummer.

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Yeah, so his, his left leg had
been amputated.

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Gosh, at the at the calf.
It was the mistake of Doctor

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Rolando Sanchez. 2 weeks later,
he had the correct, also the

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right, the right foot as opposed
to the left, and also the

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correct foot amputated.
The doctors wanted to try to

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save his right foot because
they'd amputated the wrong one,

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but he just didn't want to
endure any more painful

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procedures.
You know, he'd already been

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through it with his right foot
and you know, it was already to

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the point where it should have
been amputated.

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So he was just like, let's just
live with it, right?

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And for one moment to backtrack
when the limb gets so infected

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it will then potentially become
systemic and lethal.

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So it's not like it can be
ignored.

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I do find it interesting that I
have seen gangrenous limbs and

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it's not unclear.
They're very clear and they

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smell to high heaven.
So like, that's what I'm saying.

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You don't want to breathe for 20
seconds, right?

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They're so awful.
Oh, it's nothing like it,

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really.
That they could have sort of

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missed that.
That seems obvious.

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Well, what's interesting
actually is that his his left

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foot was also diseased.
It just wasn't as bad as the

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right foot.
And some people say, you know,

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well, his right foot would have
been had, sorry, his left foot

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would have had to be amputated
anyway.

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So it's like not a big deal.
Of course it's a big deal.

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It's a big, big deal even if
even if his left foot needed to

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be amputated in two weeks.
It's a big deal when doctors

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make mistakes regardless.
I mean, it's a big deal if you

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use Neosporin instead of
bacitracin.

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It, it just is, right.
And a lot of it is a principal

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thing, admittedly.
And it's funny, 'cause anytime

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this is an aside that defines my
personality, kind of, but every

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time somebody says it's the
principle of the thing, I think

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of the People's Court.
Not the not Judge Wapner, but

228
00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:17,640
the judge after him, the
redheaded, his Latina.

229
00:12:17,680 --> 00:12:20,960
She always says if I had a
dollar for every every time

230
00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:23,320
somebody was in my court because
of the principle of the thing,

231
00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:28,680
I'd be a millionaire.
You guys don't have to sue for

232
00:12:28,680 --> 00:12:29,640
principle.
Anyway.

233
00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:31,400
This is not that kind of
principle thing.

234
00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:35,560
This principle matters.
And by the way, Speaking of

235
00:12:35,560 --> 00:12:37,840
principles, I forgot to cite my
sources.

236
00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:43,400
I'm using the Tampa Bay Times as
well as the CBC Canadian

237
00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:47,680
broadcast channel and then the
BBC, the British broadcast

238
00:12:47,680 --> 00:12:50,680
channel.
Those are my sources and if

239
00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:54,040
anything else we can put it in
our show notes, but this is what

240
00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:56,560
I'm using at the moment so.
And nursing.

241
00:12:56,560 --> 00:13:00,720
School and nursing school, yes.
And my own, my experiences, yes.

242
00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:04,760
So Willie King was a heavy
equipment operator.

243
00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:07,200
He quit when he found out he had
heart problems and diabetes.

244
00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:11,000
He was a fisherman and he loved
reading and travelling.

245
00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:12,880
Very independent, you know, he
said.

246
00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:14,960
I like to be by myself, keep my
own place.

247
00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:17,160
I just did the things I wanted
to do.

248
00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:21,240
But of course, that all changed
when the wrong foot was

249
00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:23,120
amputated.
Yeah, because immediately the

250
00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:27,440
period of of dependence to
because a person can't get a

251
00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:31,320
prosthetic right away, there's
got to be healing and learn how

252
00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:33,800
to use a wheelchair.
And so many people don't have

253
00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:37,640
homes that are built for
wheelchairs and there's a lot of

254
00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:40,640
stages that have to go through
and and then the mental portion

255
00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:41,640
of it too.
But go ahead.

256
00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:44,320
Yeah.
Well, what's interesting also,

257
00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:47,720
and this is one of my pet peeves
of medicine, and this goes to

258
00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:51,520
kind of where we are in the
current conversation that the

259
00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:55,040
cultural conversation.
And so after the doctor came in

260
00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:58,760
and Willie said to him, yo, this
is my, this is the wrong foot.

261
00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:01,640
Guess who the next visitor to
his room was?

262
00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:03,080
The lawyer?
No.

263
00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:08,560
The hospital administrator?
Risk management, right?

264
00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:12,040
So the very next person to visit
him was the hospital's risk

265
00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:15,560
management, who came to his room
to try to convince him the

266
00:14:15,560 --> 00:14:19,680
surgery was a necessity.
Ugly.

267
00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:23,640
Ugly.
Yeah, need to be one thing.

268
00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:29,480
If they actually, I think that
if I were not prone to sue,

269
00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:32,280
which I'm not, somebody came in
and did that, that would

270
00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:34,440
immediately change my mind.
Me too.

271
00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:39,160
That's gas lighting up like if.
If you consider my my infection,

272
00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:42,920
for those who don't know, I have
a hip replacement and for

273
00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:46,720
whatever reason, I think it
might have been my home health

274
00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:48,960
nurse, but that's neither here
nor there.

275
00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:52,040
It got mega infected.
It got to the point where I

276
00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:54,720
would had septicemia, which is
when your blood is infected,

277
00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:55,960
like there's bacteria in your
blood.

278
00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:58,800
So I was in the hospital for 11
days, etcetera, etcetera.

279
00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:01,640
Anyway, so the first person in
my room was my surgeon, second

280
00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:04,840
person was my nurse.
But if risk management had come

281
00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:09,840
into my room at any time in that
hospital stay, I mean, that's

282
00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:12,680
just such a signal, right?
Like if risk management is here,

283
00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:16,000
you guys are scared.
And if you're scared, I have

284
00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:19,400
something to say, right?
Right, exactly because.

285
00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:21,480
It's just because you're.
Trying to cover something up

286
00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:23,240
you're trying to hide something
you're trying to just.

287
00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:25,960
You're trying to make sure right
Damage control.

288
00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:27,680
Exactly.
And so of course that didn't

289
00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:29,720
happen to me.
So I don't want to disperse my

290
00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:31,760
surgeon or the hospital I was
at.

291
00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:36,560
I had to Aside from having a a
massive infection, I had a

292
00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:40,880
lovely time.
Yes, sounded good, Yes.

293
00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:43,440
Anyway, so the risk manager said
to Willie.

294
00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:45,880
Said that tried to convince him
that the surgery was a

295
00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:48,720
necessity, Willie King said.
You know, I know we all make

296
00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:52,440
mistakes, we're human, but how
do you make a mistake like that?

297
00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:57,360
Then for two weeks, according to
King, the hospital, nobody in

298
00:15:57,360 --> 00:15:59,160
the hospital would talk about
the surgery.

299
00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:02,400
No one came to look at his right
leg or talk about his future.

300
00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:06,360
So that's when he transferred to
a different hospital, he said.

301
00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:08,280
I felt kind of like a dirty
shirt.

302
00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:10,040
Why wash it if you're not going
to wear it anymore?

303
00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:13,760
So you toss it to the side.
Oh yeah, that's the saddest

304
00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:14,640
thing I've ever heard.
I.

305
00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:17,840
Know it's really sad.
I hate this so much.

306
00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:19,520
I hate this.
I hate risk management.

307
00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:21,720
I'm very sorry.
I hate risk management.

308
00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:24,920
UHC, which is a university
Community Hospital in Tampa.

309
00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:27,800
UHC offered to settle all the
claims against the hospital and

310
00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:32,640
Doctor Sanchez for $250,000 +
4000 dollars a month toward

311
00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:36,600
medical needs.
And in 1995 that translated to.

312
00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:38,640
Do you have any idea?
I'll look it up.

313
00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:40,040
While OK you.
Look it up.

314
00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:40,960
Keep.
Talking.

315
00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:43,360
I'll look it up.
OK, so how much before I go

316
00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:43,800
though?
How much?

317
00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:49,360
250,000 So King rejected the
offer, saying that he would like

318
00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:52,960
to be in a position to be taken
care of and even though he

319
00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:55,600
didn't specify how much, sorry,
how much money he felt.

320
00:16:55,640 --> 00:17:03,560
Like that was Doctor, go ahead.
Oh, I was just going to.

321
00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:07,520
So he felt like it wasn't nearly
enough no matter what.

322
00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:10,640
Yep.
Wow, I don't even know.

323
00:17:11,839 --> 00:17:13,520
It's giving me all kinds of
crazy stuff.

324
00:17:13,599 --> 00:17:16,520
It's about $517,000.
Thank you.

325
00:17:16,839 --> 00:17:18,680
You're welcome.
Oh, there it is.

326
00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:21,480
Yeah.
So about a half, $1,000,000.

327
00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:23,960
Which even then wasn't enough
for how.

328
00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:25,839
Old was he?
Did you say 51?

329
00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:27,880
Oh, so that's not enough for his
whole life?

330
00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:30,080
Probably.
No, no, I mean, come on, let's

331
00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:34,640
consider even if he made $50,000
a year as a, as a a heavy

332
00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:36,840
equipment operator, that's only
five years.

333
00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:39,800
That's five years.
What's what's he going to do for

334
00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:42,640
the let's say he lives even if
he lives ten years, what's he

335
00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:44,080
going to do for the next 5?
Right?

336
00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:46,640
Like let's say he lives for 30
years.

337
00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:50,360
Let's say he made, he manages
his diabetes from here forward,

338
00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:54,240
you know, and he lives for 30
more years and he's 81.

339
00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:56,720
What's going to happen to those
25 years, right?

340
00:17:56,720 --> 00:18:01,160
It's just, it's just, it's, it's
an insult, frankly.

341
00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:06,240
Dr. Sanchez initially maintained
his operating privileges at UHC,

342
00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:09,800
but eventually he was fined and
his license was suspended.

343
00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:12,560
For this one incident or did he
have other mishaps?

344
00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:16,400
No, it this one incident that's
actually surprising.

345
00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:17,880
Yeah.
Yeah, I know.

346
00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:21,480
When you hear about things like
doctor death and such and they

347
00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:25,360
killed the Brazilian people and
this guy, I mean, not to say,

348
00:18:25,360 --> 00:18:27,480
and anyway, I don't want to
diminish the fact that he

349
00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:30,400
amputated the wrong part.
He had a little bit of stand for

350
00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:33,400
that.
But to have one error, I feel

351
00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:36,160
like I'd be interested to look
into it to see if there was

352
00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:38,480
actually more, but we wouldn't
really know.

353
00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:40,120
What happened?
Why did this happen?

354
00:18:40,120 --> 00:18:41,120
Right?
That's the question.

355
00:18:41,120 --> 00:18:43,760
And this we're going to still
talk specifically about Willie

356
00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:45,600
King.
For whatever reason, there were

357
00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:51,080
several failures and one of
those was that the paperwork and

358
00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:53,680
the information in the computer
said different things.

359
00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:56,600
Some of them said right leg,
some of them said left leg.

360
00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:01,640
And so there was, there wasn't
even a congruous record of what

361
00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:04,720
was supposed to be what was
supposed to be amputated that

362
00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:08,320
day.
So the left foot, the one that

363
00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:11,360
was wrongly amputated, it looked
like it was diseased.

364
00:19:11,360 --> 00:19:14,040
It was also severely diseased
and it well, and that makes

365
00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:15,600
more.
Sense than if it was a totally

366
00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:19,480
normal limb, yeah, sure.
And so, you know, it looked like

367
00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:23,960
it may need to be amputated.
So something to be aware of is

368
00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:28,520
on the on the whiteboard in the
surgical center surgical room.

369
00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:31,600
What's the operating room?
Or.

370
00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:37,200
Theatre, if you're British, on
the whiteboard it said the left

371
00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:42,120
leg and on the computer it said
left leg.

372
00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:46,440
But on Willie King's consent
that he had signed, it said

373
00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:49,120
right leg.
And what's important to note,

374
00:19:49,120 --> 00:19:52,760
like I said, is that the consent
was available in the operating

375
00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:55,560
room.
So had the doctor looked at

376
00:19:55,560 --> 00:20:00,840
that, he would have seen that
the wrong leg was prepped for

377
00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:03,520
surgery.
Also, additionally, the the

378
00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:07,880
surgeon never talked to Willie
before the surgery was done.

379
00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:12,440
So if you've had surgery
recently, since 1995, really,

380
00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:15,320
you know that your surgeon comes
in and talks to you right

381
00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:17,120
beforehand.
Your anesthesiologist comes in

382
00:20:17,120 --> 00:20:18,320
and talks to you right
beforehand.

383
00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:22,440
They actually write on your
body, the area that's having

384
00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:25,920
surgery and have you confirm it.
They confirm your paperwork.

385
00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:28,680
I mean, there's a lot of
confirmation that goes into.

386
00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:31,600
What am I operating on?
Interestingly, mistakes still

387
00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:34,360
happen.
That's a story for another day.

388
00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:37,040
Also, the operating room
scheduler had listed the wrong

389
00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:41,920
foot in the schedule, so there
were several instances where it

390
00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:43,840
was just listed as the wrong
foot.

391
00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:45,640
And again, it would have been
interesting.

392
00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:48,000
I didn't actually see anything
on this, but it would have been

393
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:52,040
interesting to know if anybody
in the room had second thoughts

394
00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:54,880
or knew that it should have been
the right foot and didn't speak

395
00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:55,880
up.
I, I have no idea.

396
00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:59,920
That's just me wondering.
So the wrong leg was prepped,

397
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,080
you know, had been sterilized
and draped for surgery.

398
00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:06,640
So the surgeon went in and just
operated where he saw the prep.

399
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:10,240
So what did the hospital
actually settle for?

400
00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:16,560
They settled for $900,000 and
then Dr. Sanchez settled

401
00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:25,760
separately for $250,000.
And 900. $1000 is about $1.9

402
00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:29,840
million today, so still not that
much.

403
00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:31,360
Still not that much, but I
guess.

404
00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:34,480
If you're talking about $50,000
a year, right, maybe some

405
00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:37,640
investments, I don't know.
Yeah.

406
00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:40,960
And then of course, there was.
All of the bad publicity and

407
00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:45,760
unfortunately for Willie King,
it's it's funny, I think you I

408
00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:48,880
can't remember if you said it in
this podcast or if it was

409
00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:52,280
somewhere else, but I mean this
today's episode.

410
00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:56,560
But it's interesting because
while Willie while Willie King

411
00:21:56,560 --> 00:22:00,240
suffered a horrible, horrible
mistake, regardless of whether

412
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:04,400
or not his left foot needed to
be amputated in the near future,

413
00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:08,600
he also unintentionally by
default, created a system that

414
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:12,480
has helped lots of other people
not have those same mistakes.

415
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:15,680
And that is the like we were
just talking about the reviewing

416
00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:19,080
of the paperwork, the surgeon
marking it on your body with you

417
00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:22,200
there to confirm.
As a matter of fact, I've, I've

418
00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:25,920
recently had surgery and one of
the things that they they do is

419
00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:27,680
they don't even come in and say
hi.

420
00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:29,680
So we'll be operating on your
right hip, right?

421
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:32,880
They come in and they say, what
are we doing today, right?

422
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:34,800
Because.
It's really easy to agree.

423
00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:37,680
Oh yeah, sure.
And especially, I mean, they

424
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:40,280
have to, they're supposed to ask
those questions before any

425
00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:43,600
medications on board.
But anyone who's had surgery

426
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:45,120
knows that you might be a little
nervous.

427
00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:49,480
You might whatever, right?
And say, Oh yeah, well, what?

428
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:51,560
What if?
I don't know if this would

429
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:53,840
happen or not, but let's just
say what if they what if they

430
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:58,760
come in and they say, OK, so
we're having the left lateral

431
00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:00,880
posterior.
I'm making up words.

432
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:06,440
This is all stupid tibia.
Think of anything anyway, what

433
00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:10,000
if they use really technical
words and you're like, sure, I

434
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:11,600
guess I don't know what.
Yeah, I don't know.

435
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:12,520
Right.
I.

436
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:14,640
Mean and and.
That's a big part of why they

437
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:16,600
ask.
They ask you instead to say it

438
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:19,680
in your own words because I
mean, for example, let's say you

439
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:21,360
it was something you didn't
understand.

440
00:23:21,360 --> 00:23:24,360
And the surgery comes in and
says, So what are we doing

441
00:23:24,360 --> 00:23:26,840
today?
And you say amputating my right

442
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:28,760
hand.
And the doctor looks at his

443
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:31,160
paperwork and says, well, maybe
I'm going to try that next time

444
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:32,080
I have surgery.
Just kidding.

445
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:37,080
And the doctor looks at the
paperwork and says, I thought we

446
00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:38,960
were exercising a boil, right,
like.

447
00:23:40,360 --> 00:23:42,400
Well, actually, even.
Exercising a boil is kind of

448
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:44,920
technical, right?
So the doctor comes in and says

449
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:47,120
we're going to exercise some oil
and really you are there to have

450
00:23:47,120 --> 00:23:50,240
your right hand amputated.
You might be like sure sure

451
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:52,600
that.
Maybe there's a boil in my hand.

452
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:56,200
I don't know.
And also, I have had to, on my

453
00:23:56,240 --> 00:24:00,520
intake paperwork when I was in
the surgical center, write in my

454
00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:02,800
own words what was going to
happen.

455
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:05,440
And that was before anything
else.

456
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:07,560
I mean, of course, I'd talk to
the doctor and I'd talk to the

457
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:10,240
nurse and the intake nurse.
And, you know, I must have told

458
00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:12,960
them eight times what we were
doing.

459
00:24:13,360 --> 00:24:15,920
And thank you, Willie.
Yeah, exactly.

460
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:17,800
Thank you, Willie.
I mean it again.

461
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:22,280
It sucks that he how it came
about, but it has made a huge

462
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:25,840
difference in in surgical care.
You know, another thing that I

463
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:29,240
don't know if this is, I don't
think this is directly related

464
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:31,640
to Willie King.
I think that the specifically

465
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:36,000
the area of surgery changes are
but you know, these days they do

466
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:39,320
a count in count out as well
because of all of the sponges

467
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:43,360
and and retractors and forceps
and clamps and all of these

468
00:24:43,360 --> 00:24:46,440
medical tools and equipment that
have been left in people's

469
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:49,800
bodies and for people who.
Aren't aware count in and count

470
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:55,240
out means we have 47 instruments
on the tray before we start and

471
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:59,480
24 sponges etcetera and we have
to account for every single one

472
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:03,040
of them before we close, right.
So it's.

473
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:05,960
Literally count count into the
surgery and count out.

474
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:11,080
So, you know, and that is
because, I mean, I can't even

475
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:14,800
think of how many cases I've
heard of where something was

476
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:17,400
left in a patient's body.
It's usually sponges to be

477
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:20,680
honest, but I have needles.
Or needles, yeah, but.

478
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,560
I've heard of her tractors and
even the other thing I said.

479
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:25,200
Clamps.
And clamps are huge.

480
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:27,200
I know how what?
Tractors are huge.

481
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,080
I think I would.
Notice.

482
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:32,720
But yeah, well, in the problem
there are a lot of moving parts.

483
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:37,000
I mean, and not to not to sound
like I'm defending the people

484
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:39,960
who did it, but there are so
many moving parts, so many

485
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:43,960
people involved.
And there are also multiple

486
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,080
people doing the counts in and
out.

487
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:48,640
Because how many times have you
been trying to count something

488
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:49,880
and someone says a number out
loud?

489
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,960
And it's like, what?
And now I can't remember where I

490
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:54,160
was.
And it's huge.

491
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:57,480
It's just a huge thing.
And so much for our protection

492
00:25:57,480 --> 00:25:59,120
and the protection of the people
involved.

493
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,080
Because I don't want to be the
one who counted wrong, Right?

494
00:26:02,360 --> 00:26:05,480
Yeah, I don't either.
So here's something interesting

495
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:10,240
also, Doctor Sanchez was was
actually defended by a lot of

496
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:12,720
his colleagues.
One, an expert witness that

497
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:16,640
testified in his defense, good
heavens, was a surgeon at the

498
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,600
University of South Florida
named Doctor Joseph Diaco.

499
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:24,400
And he said, it is my opinion
that 50, no, probably 90% of the

500
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:26,760
surgeons in this state would
have made the same mistake that

501
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:29,600
Doctor Sanchez made.
The.

502
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:34,480
It's not really the prosecution
because it was not a criminal

503
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:38,320
trial, but the the lawyer that
was pressing the case, they say,

504
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:42,120
against Doctor Sanchez for the
Florida Agency for Healthcare

505
00:26:42,120 --> 00:26:45,880
Administration noted that the
surgeon should have checked the

506
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:48,360
other paperwork, the consent,
the medical history, which were

507
00:26:48,360 --> 00:26:50,960
available in the operating room
and.

508
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:55,760
And they are and if, and and I.
I don't disagree.

509
00:26:56,440 --> 00:27:00,720
I know that surgeons do tend to
have staff that they select to

510
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:05,240
attend them when they can, and
so he probably trusted his staff

511
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:07,360
too.
Where yeah, he should have

512
00:27:07,360 --> 00:27:10,880
checked, but he'd probably done
enough surgeries with them that

513
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:12,960
he figured they knew what they
were doing.

514
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:14,880
OK, so I just.
Found something else?

515
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:16,880
This is a new source.
This is the New York Times.

516
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:20,200
So Doctor Sanchez testified that
he learned of his error.

517
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:21,920
I'm quoting directly, just so
you know.

518
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:24,960
Doctor Sanchez testified that he
testified it.

519
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:28,080
Testified.
That he learned of his error

520
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:31,200
from a nurse as he was still
cutting through the leg of the

521
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:34,000
patient after.
Reviewing the patient.

522
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,680
'S file.
She started to shake and cry,

523
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:39,760
but at that point he said there
was no turning back.

524
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:42,920
I tried to recover from the
sinking feeling I had, he

525
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:45,480
testified.
So his medical license was

526
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:49,560
suspended with the claim that he
was an immediate and serious

527
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:52,160
danger to the health, safety and
welfare of the public.

528
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:55,840
Wow, you.
Know and I think he got thrown

529
00:27:55,840 --> 00:28:00,360
under the bus I mean not that it
was AI mean I don't think it was

530
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:04,520
AII think it was an error that
could have been prevented and I

531
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:08,560
think that that far worse has
happened not to make that OK,

532
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:12,040
but it sounds like he was the
example yeah yeah for.

533
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:13,840
Sure.
And I did find that he had had

534
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:15,920
no complaints previous prior to
this.

535
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:21,560
So he was, yeah.
I mean, and, and OK, so let's

536
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:24,840
let's, oh, let's, let's go on
the opposite side of this kind

537
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:26,080
of devil's advocate, if you
will.

538
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:27,640
You know, he did.
OK.

539
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,280
So first of all, I want to point
out that all of these, these

540
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:32,680
verification processes that
we're talking about did not

541
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:37,200
exist prior to this, right?
So he was trusting his staff who

542
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:41,880
had prepped the surgical area.
He walked into a fully prepped

543
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:45,760
surgical area, picked up a knife
and started surgery, scalpel

544
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:48,200
started surgery, right?
I don't think that that's

545
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:53,920
unreasonable in 1995, given that
we didn't have all of these

546
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:55,480
checks and balances at the time,
right?

547
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:59,240
And again, it wasn't Doctor
Sanchez that put wrong things in

548
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:01,880
the computer, put wrong things
into the scheduler, wrote the

549
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:05,080
wrong thing on the blackboard,
whiteboard, whatever it was.

550
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:10,320
So, and again, I don't want to
excuse it because that's what

551
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:12,280
this is tricky, because I don't
want to say there's no excuse

552
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:14,440
for it because like, well, there
kind of is an excuse for it

553
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:16,040
because all these things
happened, right?

554
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:20,040
So I don't, I don't want to, let
me rephrase this, I don't want

555
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:22,960
to diminish the impact on Willie
King.

556
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:25,800
I don't want to diminish that,
that it was a tragedy for him,

557
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:28,800
but also on the same token, on
the opposite side of the same

558
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:33,280
token, I guess, where a lot of
people who let Doctor Sanchez

559
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:34,800
down.
Yeah, and some.

560
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:38,080
People could argue that, well,
he was Doctor Sanchez's patient,

561
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:42,120
and that's true.
And Doctor Sanchez had 170 other

562
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:44,160
patients that may have had
similar things.

563
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:46,880
He could have been specializing
in people that needed

564
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:49,280
amputations due to diabetes or
injury or whatever.

565
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:54,280
But also, even he knew that
Willie had two bad feet.

566
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:58,040
So if he saw an infected foot,
he may not have thought any

567
00:29:58,040 --> 00:29:59,280
further.
Now, should he have?

568
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:04,160
Possibly.
But he saw a foot that was bad,

569
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:07,600
and so he went ahead and did
what he thought he needed to do.

570
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:11,400
And I can't even imagine being
in the middle of surgery and

571
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:15,920
going, yeah, he's spoke of that
sinking.

572
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:19,720
Feeling, and I mean, I'm sure
all of us have experienced that,

573
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:24,840
where it is just like it's like
the world stops and there's no

574
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,040
way forward, right?
It's just like, I know I've

575
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:29,600
experienced it when I've been
laid off because it's just like

576
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:32,000
this can't, it's like this can't
really be happening, right,

577
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:38,560
Right, right.
So it's just, I felt like like

578
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:42,120
that when I had my cancer
diagnosis and the whole world

579
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:45,200
was going on and my whole world
had just changed.

580
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:48,680
And I'm sure Doctor Sanchez
experienced that, that he knew

581
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:50,600
no matter what, his world had
changed.

582
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:54,240
He didn't know how yet, but I'm
sure he knew that there were

583
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:58,240
going to be some big problems.
And the thing that also, I can't

584
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:01,080
help but think that Willie
probably didn't have a lot of

585
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:03,800
life left, given the fact that
his diabetes sounds like it was

586
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:07,440
pretty much out of control.
And even if he did regain

587
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:10,520
control of it, he he may have
been fragile enough that he

588
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:14,680
couldn't really.
But having had dual amputations

589
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:17,680
definitely would have shortened
his life I think for sure.

590
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:20,640
And that's if he fully recovered
physically from it.

591
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:23,760
And outside of the mental
picture, it's just a whole

592
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:26,320
tragedy for everyone and the
hospital staff.

593
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:31,960
And I mean, I remember I made an
error one time in a long term

594
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,840
care facility because the wrong
patient told me his name was Mr.

595
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:37,480
Smith.
I didn't know him and I thought

596
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:40,760
he knew.
Well, it turned out that the

597
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:43,800
medications that Mr. Smith and
Mr. Jones were on, we're

598
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:46,040
actually the same medications of
the same dosage.

599
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:48,320
Thanks.
Heavens otherwise.

600
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:52,480
But I I was at that moment where
I just like, oh, my gosh.

601
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:55,200
And so I had reported it to
everybody and I checked all the

602
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:58,160
files and I insisted on photos
of these individuals in the

603
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:01,840
chart before I came and gave any
further medications ever to

604
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:02,800
them.
Were you temping?

605
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:04,840
Were you filling in?
I was, yeah.

606
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:07,480
That's.
The hardest thing is is temp

607
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:10,200
nursing and it was.
It was hard, but I remember that

608
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:13,160
sinking feeling, sinking feeling
going, Oh my gosh, am I going to

609
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:15,360
lose my license?
Am I going to kill somebody?

610
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:18,360
And I have to admit, those
questions came in that order.

611
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:20,760
We had a.
When I was in a long term care

612
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:26,680
facility, we had you were.
A patient when.

613
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,080
I was working.
Oh yeah.

614
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:31,560
As a.
Nurse, that was so weird.

615
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,040
Modifiers have been misplaced
and now replaced.

616
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:39,200
We had.
A state inspection, right, which

617
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:42,960
is not uncommon and we
devastating to me.

618
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:48,040
I was the Don or ADONI was like,
no, it wasn't, which is the

619
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:51,040
assistant director of nursing.
So basically assistant manager

620
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:58,800
of the nursing staff and we had
an LPN who was found to have not

621
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:02,480
been testing patients blood
sugar and just giving them

622
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:04,040
insulin.
She was just.

623
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:05,600
Guessing.
Oh, they look like they're about

624
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,080
he actually.
Yeah, they look like they're

625
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:11,640
about. 65 blood sugar that seems
right he was just.

626
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:16,560
Just putting a fake number in
and then giving them insulin and

627
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:18,680
it it's not that.
Hard.

628
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:19,840
It's not that hard.
It's.

629
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:22,280
Unfortunate, because that's the
other thing about medical

630
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:24,080
errors, right?
Sometimes they're intentional,

631
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:27,160
sometimes and it's not.
I mean, we of course, we all

632
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:29,760
have the angels of death, which
that's very, very intentional,

633
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:32,920
which we're going to be.
Covering soon, yes, which we

634
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:35,880
will be.
Covering in another episode, but

635
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:40,040
then just the sheer laziness.
I knew some nurses that would

636
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:43,160
not not wash their hands between
patients.

637
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:48,560
And it's like, I don't care.
And I, I think their logic was

638
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:50,800
they're not in the hospital,
they're not treating, you know,

639
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:55,120
active diseases, so to speak, or
active contagious diseases.

640
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:58,480
But like, guess how lice gets
spread, homie?

641
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:02,160
Guess how?
Like there's so many things that

642
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:03,880
you just Yeah.
And it's.

643
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:06,720
I'm not always washing my hands
for other people either.

644
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:09,480
I'm washing my hands for me.
Right, I know like what if you

645
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:13,040
don't even know it and you got
poop on your hand, right?

646
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:15,840
You didn't know this like.
I cannot see germs.

647
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:17,600
I cannot see them.
I can't.

648
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:19,880
You know, my vision's pretty
good, but.

649
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:22,120
Oh, geez.
Yeah.

650
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:25,719
Wow, that's crazy.
So do you have any idea what the

651
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:28,520
outcome for Willie was?
I mean, I've said some things, I

652
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:32,000
think, but do you have any idea
how long you lived or what else

653
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:34,080
how he did?
I don't.

654
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:37,880
But I might be able to find out
and do you know?

655
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,840
If Doctor Sanchez ever worked
again or did he lose his license

656
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:42,440
forever?
Nope, he worked again.

657
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:44,280
He ended up, I believe it was
six months.

658
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:47,719
Don't quote me on that because I
stopped looking at that page.

659
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:51,400
Makes sense.
Yeah, so.

660
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:55,320
He was able to practice again.
Oops, wrong button so well and.

661
00:34:55,520 --> 00:35:01,400
And you know, I, I find it
shocking that he was censored

662
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:04,840
that quickly.
Not to say the error was small.

663
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:07,320
And I'm not diminishing, as you
said, I'm not diminishing what

664
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,240
happened at all.
But I know some people and some

665
00:35:10,240 --> 00:35:13,320
surgeons that should have lost
their license repeatedly and,

666
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:16,240
and they didn't.
So I don't understand.

667
00:35:16,240 --> 00:35:20,360
There was a doctor I knew when I
was working as a new student who

668
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:24,760
lost his license because he was
filtering drugs, narcotics out

669
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:29,240
and he lost his license.
And then he was reinstated about

670
00:35:29,240 --> 00:35:31,200
three months later.
And I'm like there's no way he's

671
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:35,800
recovered and they did the
safeguard they use because he

672
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:39,320
was a good doctor, but the
safeguard they used is random

673
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:41,360
drug screens.
And also he was no longer to

674
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:44,840
write prescriptions for
narcotics at least forever that

675
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:47,400
I know of.
But I I lost track of him after

676
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:49,720
a bit.
I changed hospitals and areas.

677
00:35:49,720 --> 00:35:52,840
So I don't know, but but there
are safeguards and there are

678
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:56,280
things that can happen if a
doctor has made an error or

679
00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:58,600
nurse or anything.
There's different programs and

680
00:35:58,600 --> 00:35:59,880
that sort of thing they can put
on.

681
00:35:59,880 --> 00:36:03,880
But that's I'm, I'm, I'm for
one, glad that he was able to

682
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:07,320
practice again.
And I'm sure he probably had

683
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:09,360
something to do with some of
these safeguards that were put

684
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:12,960
in place, I'm sure.
Yes, they actually originated at

685
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:15,960
that hospital.
That's where they started.

686
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:18,960
Billy King died in 2001 from
complications related to

687
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:23,120
coronary artery bypass
thrombosis, which is also.

688
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:25,480
Related to diabetes, the heart
problem, so he had a.

689
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,520
A heart trap, not transplant,
bypass surgery.

690
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:33,280
And we got a blood clot from
that surgery and it killed him

691
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:36,520
and blood clots.
Are also a thing that happens in

692
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:39,240
diabetes so it's my guess blood
with too much.

693
00:36:39,240 --> 00:36:41,480
Sugar candy coating.
Yeah, so my.

694
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:45,400
Guess is that he was unable to
get his blood sugars under

695
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:46,800
control.
Yeah, I guess.

696
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:47,720
Which?
Doesn't make the.

697
00:36:47,720 --> 00:36:51,160
Mistake any less important, but
I'm not surprised that his

698
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:54,760
lifespan was reduced because it
probably would have been either

699
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:57,360
way, but maybe he would have had
at least one leg until then.

700
00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:00,000
Yeah, and it.
Makes a difference so since I

701
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:04,480
think it's important that we
bring up is that Willie King was

702
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:08,960
a black man and historically it
has been harder for people of

703
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:12,200
color to get medical care and to
get good medical care.

704
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:16,920
The patient mortality rates are
I think they're four times

705
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:21,360
higher for people of color than
they are for for white people

706
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:23,800
frankly.
So I'm sure that that played a

707
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:28,880
part as well in in just the
management of his, excuse me, in

708
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:30,840
the management of his dieting
for all.

709
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:33,640
So not necessarily.
I'm not saying by any stretch,

710
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:36,400
I'm not saying that Doctor
Sanchez is racist or anything

711
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:37,800
like that.
I don't want to It's it's a

712
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,720
systemic problem, not a one
person problem, right.

713
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:43,000
The reason I wanted to bring
that up is because this next

714
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:46,320
story that I'm telling you is so
he went to Seven Oaks General

715
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:49,040
Hospital.
This is Jason Kennedy on October

716
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:51,920
23rd because he had pain and
bleeding in his right foot and

717
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:57,600
he was going to have his right
leg amputated and he has a bone

718
00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:01,400
infection that he lives with.
And so it's not diabetes, but in

719
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:05,920
this case it's bone infection.
So he went in to have it

720
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:09,960
amputated and lo and behold,
when he woke up, his left leg

721
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:14,560
was amputated.
And he said he woke up and he

722
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:18,280
could feel that his right foot
was was still in pain.

723
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:22,120
Now, of course there is phantom
fiend in that sort of thing, but

724
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:25,120
in this case, I mean, all he has
to do is lift up his sheet,

725
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:27,160
right?
He has no.

726
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:31,840
No left leg.
But what's interesting about

727
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:34,040
this is he also is a person of
colour.

728
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:36,840
He's he's from the Blood Bane
First Nation in Winnipeg.

729
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:41,280
And so it's it's again, a
systemic problem.

730
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:46,040
I don't, I'm not accusing
individuals or or specific

731
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:49,080
organizations of racism, but
it's just, it's truly a systemic

732
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:53,120
problem.
And if you don't understand that

733
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:55,840
and agree with that, this is not
the podcast for you because I

734
00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:59,760
will die on this hill.
There is a systemic racism

735
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:03,880
problem everywhere, but
particularly in medicine.

736
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:06,200
Yeah, and.
One of the things too I wanted

737
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:10,680
to bring up.
And even in 2001 people were

738
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:18,760
less likely. 2021, Twenty. 1 21
Now the argument.

739
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:20,360
I was going to make is
incorrect.

740
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:25,080
I was going to say in 2001
people were still unwilling to

741
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:28,640
challenge medical providers with
their doctor.

742
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:33,920
Is King right, right and.
But in 2021 I misheard that.

743
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:37,400
If this is even more astounding.
But how?

744
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:39,760
I.
Can't even.

745
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:42,960
I mean, Oh my gosh, what was the
story?

746
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:45,360
Because it is a story.
Yeah, let's.

747
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:46,640
See.
They didn't follow any.

748
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:48,600
Of the checks, well, this was in
Canada.

749
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:52,840
And so I don't know what Canada,
what what laws and regulations

750
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:56,240
they have, but it I don't really
see they OK, so here's what

751
00:39:56,240 --> 00:39:58,160
happened.
The hospital says due to patient

752
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:01,360
confidentiality they can't
really share what happened so.

753
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:02,880
And.
And looks like Jason Kennedy

754
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:05,600
hasn't really said anything
other than they took off my

755
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:07,960
wrong leg.
He may have settled and had.

756
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:10,360
A non disclosure, yeah, right.
Exactly.

757
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:14,160
And so he said he's he said that
he forgave them.

758
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:17,160
He did he have to still.
Have the right leg amputated

759
00:40:17,240 --> 00:40:19,240
because it seems like you would
have still had the bone

760
00:40:19,240 --> 00:40:20,680
infection.
Yeah, it did.

761
00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:26,200
Have to still be amputated.
So how old was he?

762
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:29,280
He was 42, I believe.
Let me look here.

763
00:40:29,720 --> 00:40:31,560
Interestingly.
A 48 He was 48.

764
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:37,800
Interestingly, he he decided to
go to go the PMA positive mental

765
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:39,560
attitude.
And.

766
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:43,000
He's like, you know, my left toe
feels great now.

767
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:45,600
My left toe is still great.
I can wiggle them.

768
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:51,360
I don't, I mean, I don't even
know what he's talking about

769
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:54,760
because he doesn't have one.
I think he's talking about the

770
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:57,560
phantom pain because he can
wiggle his toes and his right

771
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:02,200
foot without pain, right?
And with his right foot before

772
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:04,640
it came off, he could not wiggle
his toes because it was too

773
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:07,320
painful.
Wow.

774
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:09,160
Well, I was.
I just.

775
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:14,040
Searched him and this was on
YouTube even three months ago.

776
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:18,040
It was a month ago.
They were talking about it, and

777
00:41:18,240 --> 00:41:21,640
they said that there need to be
more checks and balances that.

778
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:24,840
So it'd be interesting to know
what kind of checks and balances

779
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:28,040
they had there, which sounds
like they weren't nearly enough,

780
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:32,080
which is interesting because one
would think that these lessons

781
00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:33,200
had been learned.
Yeah.

782
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:34,120
Well, yeah.
And.

783
00:41:34,240 --> 00:41:37,560
I have AI have one more story.
I don't have a date on it for

784
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:40,320
some reason.
The date of the article.

785
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:42,720
This is the BBC article that I
was telling you about the date

786
00:41:42,720 --> 00:41:44,960
of the articles, one December
2021.

787
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:49,880
But this was a case of a patient
in Austria who instead of his

788
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:52,240
left leg, his right leg was
removed.

789
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:58,200
The doctor was found guilty of
gross negligence and fined.

790
00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:01,440
Wow, ���2700.
And the widow of the patient who

791
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:05,320
died before the case came to
court was awarded ���5000 in

792
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:07,640
damages.
That's a big difference between.

793
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:13,800
Million so.
In court, the surgeon said there

794
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:15,880
had been a flaw in the chain of
command in the operating

795
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:17,560
theater.
When asked why she barked the

796
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:20,120
right leg and not the left, she
said I just don't know.

797
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:22,640
That was the.
Defense, yeah.

798
00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:25,000
Yep, and it worked.
Apparently.

799
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:27,880
Oh my heavens, that doesn't seem
like enough.

800
00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:30,520
Nope, I agree.
Well, you know, we talk about

801
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:32,760
legs.
I'm wondering if if that's the

802
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:35,720
most common incorrect removal.
I wonder.

803
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:37,480
I don't know, but maybe it's
the.

804
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:39,920
Well, I was going to say that
has the most impact, and in some

805
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:42,880
ways it does, but I would still
be a little grumpy if I had

806
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:44,440
other parts removed that weren't
supposed to be.

807
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:46,320
Yeah, I.
Agree.

808
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:47,920
That's tragic.
I can't even.

809
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:52,280
I just knowing what I've been
through in surgical procedures,

810
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:55,200
it seems shocking to me that
these things can still happen

811
00:42:55,720 --> 00:42:59,160
because with all the things that
I've been through, I have always

812
00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:01,920
said had to say yes, it was what
it was.

813
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:04,960
And when they write on it, is
this the correct place?

814
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:07,680
Yes.
And we're again doing what?

815
00:43:07,720 --> 00:43:11,280
And your name is what and what's
your date of birth and you are

816
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:15,080
the correct person.
I have heard of cases where the

817
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:18,880
wrong person had this, had a
surgery and it was definitely

818
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:20,840
the wrong surgery because it was
the wrong person.

819
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:23,760
But but that was also before all
these checks.

820
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:27,440
No kidding.
And how many times do even when

821
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:31,080
I have a label on my arm and it
said they say, what's your name?

822
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:33,080
What's your date of birth?
The one thing that I've

823
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:36,320
wondered, and this is I'm sure
about power of attorney.

824
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:39,760
I mean, excuse me, medical,
durable, medical power of

825
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:42,840
attorney, I guess where if
someone is compromised for

826
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:46,440
whatever reason that someone
else is saying yes, it's their

827
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:49,520
left leg, it's if.
They have dementia.

828
00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:53,520
Or they're somehow mentally
incapable of answering.

829
00:43:55,240 --> 00:44:00,400
But that would be and that's my
daughter responsibility too.

830
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:03,880
My daughter had a.
An instance where Walgreens

831
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:08,120
filled her prescription wrong
for a whole month and it was for

832
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:10,160
Buspar.
Buspar.

833
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:13,160
And.
Her dose was 10 milligrams and

834
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:14,840
they gave her 100 milligram
pills.

835
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:17,720
And so she took 100 milligrams a
day for a month.

836
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:20,600
Yeah.
And so they this and this was

837
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:23,160
three months ago.
I mean, these things happen all

838
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:24,040
the time.
They do.

839
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:26,320
Well, that's.
One of the things too is, is

840
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:30,720
that there there is supposed to
be continuity in the type and

841
00:44:30,720 --> 00:44:34,280
dose of medications.
And I know that my partner Max

842
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:36,360
has said they've changed my
pills again.

843
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:41,760
And if it looks different, it's
hard to know if it's the correct

844
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:43,000
pill.
Well, yeah, because.

845
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:46,440
It's, it's a manufacturing
issue, right?

846
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:52,000
Like what have you been changed
from, you know, Tevia to Teva

847
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:55,360
Teva to, you know, Lily, who
knows?

848
00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:59,840
I have a medication that I
sometimes I get the Amazon brand

849
00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:01,960
and sometimes I end up getting
it from Walmart.

850
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:05,400
Same medication.
And one of the pills is a round

851
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:10,080
white pill and the other pill is
a small pink square pill and

852
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:12,640
it's about half the size of the
round white pill.

853
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:15,120
Same medication, just a
different manufacturer.

854
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:19,600
And so you should question if
your pill doesn't look like it

855
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:22,960
looked the last time you took it
after you fill it like you

856
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:25,560
should definitely question it.
And yeah, and there's.

857
00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:30,520
And people can go online and say
I have a pill that is this and

858
00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:33,360
it has this logo on it.
Or yeah, just Google Pill.

859
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:36,920
Identifier and then.
You can identify your own pills

860
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:39,640
and if you're not comfortable
taking back to the pharmacy and

861
00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:41,840
say I need this clarified for
me.

862
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:45,560
And even if it's not a pharmacy
that prescribed it, they

863
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:47,960
probably will identify it for a
person.

864
00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:52,320
So like if you do what you've
just said and get it online and

865
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:55,440
you don't have anyone to
actually talk to, most

866
00:45:55,440 --> 00:46:00,240
pharmacies I think will say yes,
that is this pill.

867
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:03,800
They won't confirm it's your
prescription or something, maybe

868
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:06,000
because they didn't prescribe
it, but they would probably

869
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:08,880
identify it if you're unable to
do it yourself.

870
00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:12,320
But it's all over the Internet
on pill identifier to and it's a

871
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:14,200
very thorough site.
I've used it before.

872
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:17,080
Yeah, I actually have.
A tool I pay for as a nurse.

873
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:20,640
I probably don't need to pay for
it anymore because I don't we

874
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:21,960
give up medications anymore,
but.

875
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:25,480
It's been handy I've.
I've identified pills for a lot

876
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:27,400
of people.
Yeah, I've had to do.

877
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:31,240
It with my mom because her pills
were all in a pill box and she

878
00:46:31,240 --> 00:46:33,400
said which one is this?
And I don't, I don't know.

879
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:35,480
I don't know.
I haven't taken any of these

880
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:36,680
meds.
I haven't distributed any of

881
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:39,200
these meds for many years.
So let me check.

882
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:41,640
And that way we both felt
comfortable with what she was

883
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:44,400
getting.
But there are a lot of ways that

884
00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:47,880
a person can protect themselves,
and it feels difficult sometimes

885
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:50,440
that we have to protect
ourselves in a medical setting.

886
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:54,960
And people who have a medical
background maybe have a stronger

887
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:58,200
ability to do so.
But honestly, when a person is a

888
00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:01,360
patient, they're a patient.
I mean, my nursing brain has

889
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:04,760
gone out the window when I'm in
pain or if I'm a narcotic.

890
00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:08,400
When I had one of the kids via
C-section, one of the nurses

891
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:12,240
came in and asked me if my drip
rate was correct on my IV.

892
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:19,000
And I said I said to your
manager and because I didn't

893
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:22,000
want to be responsible for my IV
drip rate when I was on

894
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:25,680
narcotics post op after AC
section, no way, no how.

895
00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:29,640
And they brought the manager in
and I said I need a different

896
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:32,200
nurse.
Even if she was joking, I'm not

897
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:34,640
OK with it, right?
That.

898
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:38,200
Wow, it's just not cool.
I told her manager that if she

899
00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:40,920
were to have been joking I
recommended.

900
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:43,200
She told her that wasn't
something that was funny.

901
00:47:43,720 --> 00:47:45,280
You're right.
And I got a new.

902
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:46,520
Nurse.
But I was.

903
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:50,440
I knew what I needed to do and I
knew that that wasn't OK.

904
00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:53,120
I had to get a.
New, I don't know if it was a

905
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:56,920
new CNA or a new nurse in my
last hospitalization.

906
00:47:57,480 --> 00:48:01,120
OK, so I had asked her for, I
asked her to go to the bathroom.

907
00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:02,840
That's what it was.
And I couldn't get up yet 'cause

908
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:05,560
I just had my vision surgery on
my hips.

909
00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:08,520
I couldn't get up by myself.
And she didn't come, didn't

910
00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:11,120
come.
And so I peed my pants and I

911
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:14,160
didn't have a brief because they
were being stupid.

912
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:18,440
And she actually said to me that
it was my fault that I peed my

913
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:20,040
pants, said it to me like this
is your fault.

914
00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:23,960
And I was like, get out, get
out, get out.

915
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:26,960
And that's the other thing, like
I want to empower our listeners.

916
00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:30,000
Like you do not have to be
mistreated by anybody in

917
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:32,760
medicine.
My two big rules are advocate

918
00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:38,280
for yourself and don't lie to
your providers, even if it's if

919
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:42,560
it's embarrassing, if it's
illegal, if it's any of those

920
00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:43,920
things.
I mean, that's two things.

921
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:45,960
But you know, don't lie to your
doctors, don't lie to your

922
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:49,680
providers, because they have to
know everything they need to

923
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:52,640
know to treat you correctly Yes,
because if we.

924
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:57,720
Are in if we lie about taking
drugs, legal or illegal or

925
00:48:57,720 --> 00:49:01,120
supplements or anything like
that, it can impact how

926
00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:05,000
medications respond.
It can impact on bleeding rates.

927
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:07,760
It can impact how a person may
clot.

928
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:11,720
And, and it's important.
And even if you think you're

929
00:49:11,720 --> 00:49:15,000
taking something that is, say, a
supplement and over the counter,

930
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:19,160
no big deal, it still has an
impact on the body and the way

931
00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:23,720
the body reacts and it's huge.
Another example that I saw often

932
00:49:23,720 --> 00:49:26,840
in Utah is folks lying about
being sexually active.

933
00:49:27,240 --> 00:49:31,120
And what can happen in those
cases it, well, any number of

934
00:49:31,120 --> 00:49:33,040
things can happen.
You can end up with an STD that

935
00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:36,320
doesn't get treated because you
don't admit that it it's

936
00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:38,200
possible for it to be there.
You could end up with a

937
00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:41,000
pregnancy that could be
negatively affected by some

938
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:43,440
medication or something.
So for example accutane, very

939
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:47,400
popular drug for acne.
It will cause birth defects.

940
00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:51,200
I guess I shouldn't say will it
can.

941
00:49:51,480 --> 00:49:54,600
In.
There's a strong indication that

942
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:58,560
it will likely cause birth
feedback, so they won't even

943
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:02,000
walked it back a little.
Bit but still people need to say

944
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:03,880
what they're doing and how
they're doing it.

945
00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:05,960
So those are my two things.
Advocate for yourself.

946
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:08,680
Don't ever let somebody treat
you poorly, make you feel bad,

947
00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:11,640
make you feel dumb.
Even if you did something dumb

948
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:15,080
like, you know, you think about,
there are a lot of injuries that

949
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:17,760
come into an emergency room that
are dumb, frankly, that are

950
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:24,040
dumb, avoidable dumb.
And even even then, you should

951
00:50:24,040 --> 00:50:28,800
be treated with respect and you
and compassion and they should

952
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:30,720
be kind to you.
I mean, that's the bottom line.

953
00:50:30,720 --> 00:50:34,920
That's what we, in my opinion,
that's kind of the the contract,

954
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:37,240
the agreement that we make when
we go into medicine.

955
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:40,840
We say no matter what my
personal opinion is of how this

956
00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:45,440
thing happened, I will treat my
patient like a person who

957
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:49,840
deserves care, period.
And, and to be honest, there

958
00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:52,360
have been a few people that I've
had that being a challenge

959
00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:57,440
because they were difficult and
so unpleasant and everything

960
00:50:57,440 --> 00:51:00,480
else, but they were still my
patient and I still took care of

961
00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:03,240
them even though I personally
had an issue.

962
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:07,080
And if I ever had an issue that
was with someone, even with

963
00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:11,200
people who I've had some sort of
ethical issue or concern with,

964
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:15,080
then I've still always had to
provide care to the best of my

965
00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:17,960
ability.
And also in those situations,

966
00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:21,040
especially if it was something
that was easily, easily

967
00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:25,680
identifiable, I guess as an
ethical issue, I, if nothing

968
00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:28,800
else, would have probably
crossed my TS and dotted my eyes

969
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:30,800
even better.
So I could never be accused of

970
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:32,480
anything.
And that's pretty important.

971
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:36,280
There's only one patient I've
ever had to ask for someone to

972
00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:40,960
take and it was 1 as a case
manager and he had had an

973
00:51:41,120 --> 00:51:45,680
incarceration time that we
needed to have him have a male

974
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:48,640
nurse.
Yeah, and enough said.

975
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:51,680
With that, but I just, I said
no, I can't do it For these

976
00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:53,920
reasons.
And then it was shifted so.

977
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:56,640
But I had a really.
I had a really interesting

978
00:51:56,640 --> 00:51:59,040
ethical dilemma.
I know this episode's not about

979
00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:01,640
ethical dilemmas, but it kind of
is, I guess.

980
00:52:01,640 --> 00:52:04,600
But I had an interesting ethical
dilemma in that I had when I was

981
00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:08,280
a case manager.
I had a patient who had had a

982
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:11,120
severe accident.
It was just shy of loss of

983
00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:13,080
limbs.
He'd fallen off of a boom truck

984
00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:14,720
at 10 stories high or something
like that.

985
00:52:14,720 --> 00:52:19,280
I don't remember anyway, yeah,
yeah, with lots of injuries.

986
00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:24,720
Anyway, his hospital record
specifically said that he tested

987
00:52:24,720 --> 00:52:29,360
negative for drugs and alcohol.
All of his Co workers had said

988
00:52:29,360 --> 00:52:31,720
that he'd been drinking all
night till 3:00 in the morning

989
00:52:31,720 --> 00:52:33,560
and had gone to work at 3:00 at
5:00 AM.

990
00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:37,480
And I had to go by the medical
record because that's my record.

991
00:52:38,240 --> 00:52:40,800
And it was really, it was, that
was a hard one.

992
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:43,880
Again, it's more than likely
that there was an error at the

993
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:47,280
hospital just based on the
circumstances and I'm probably

994
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:50,240
leaving out some details, but it
was more than likely that the

995
00:52:50,240 --> 00:52:52,080
hospital had made a mistake and
made an error.

996
00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:56,560
But as a nurse, that's my Bible,
right?

997
00:52:57,360 --> 00:52:59,760
And I mean they.
Can the insurance company,

998
00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:01,800
whatever can litigate it all
they want?

999
00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:04,320
But for me, I've been providing
care.

1000
00:53:04,920 --> 00:53:09,400
I had to provide care and I had
to advocate for him as though he

1001
00:53:09,720 --> 00:53:12,480
was sober at the time of the
accident period full stop.

1002
00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:16,000
And so that was that was one of
my most interesting cases

1003
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:20,360
because I again, based on
probably probably a lot more

1004
00:53:20,360 --> 00:53:25,640
factors than I'm revealing, I
was pretty certain that his Co

1005
00:53:25,640 --> 00:53:27,760
workers were right and that
there'd been an error at the

1006
00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:31,000
hospital.
But it didn't matter, no.

1007
00:53:31,240 --> 00:53:34,000
And has had to receive medical
care anyway.

1008
00:53:34,560 --> 00:53:38,120
And it's the rest of it that it
matters to whether he gets

1009
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:40,200
compensation and such.
But that's what.

1010
00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:41,720
Yeah, exactly.
The medical care is going to

1011
00:53:41,720 --> 00:53:43,520
exactly medical care is going to
happen anyway.

1012
00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:48,080
And it was about it was about
accessibility, remodeling at his

1013
00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:51,080
house.
It was about lost wages, all of

1014
00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:54,440
that sort of thing.
And so, but in the position that

1015
00:53:54,440 --> 00:53:57,000
I was in, I had to advocate for
those things as well.

1016
00:53:57,000 --> 00:54:00,800
That was part of my job.
And so I just had to advocate

1017
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:04,640
based on what I had, what I had.
That I was legally.

1018
00:54:04,640 --> 00:54:07,640
Bound to and it wouldn't matter.
Anyway, with hearsay and such,

1019
00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:10,200
but yeah, so there are times
that things come up and there's

1020
00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:13,880
times that we have to make
ethical decisions that we get to

1021
00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:18,920
live with and hopefully we'll
make the right decisions and the

1022
00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:22,360
legal decisions.
And if we find ourselves in an

1023
00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:25,120
error, I mean, the time I told
you about that, I had found, I

1024
00:54:25,120 --> 00:54:27,320
made a medical error.
I went directly to the director

1025
00:54:27,320 --> 00:54:29,480
of nursing and I said this is
what happened.

1026
00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:32,760
And that's when we looked into
it and realized that both people

1027
00:54:32,760 --> 00:54:36,200
had the same meds at the same
doses and never made a medical

1028
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:37,920
error.
Oh, good.

1029
00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:43,960
You're you're an Angel of our
errors are are small things and

1030
00:54:44,240 --> 00:54:48,160
hopefully have no major impact,
but they have to be revealed and

1031
00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:51,520
talked about and learn from when
I was staff developer, the long

1032
00:54:51,520 --> 00:54:57,760
term care facility that I was
doing that for which ironically

1033
00:54:57,760 --> 00:54:59,600
is the same.
One I worked for a decade later.

1034
00:54:59,600 --> 00:55:01,760
Actually, no, it's.
Actually not, it's a different.

1035
00:55:01,760 --> 00:55:02,360
One.
Yeah, it was.

1036
00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:04,080
Different one I did work at.
The same one that's her.

1037
00:55:04,760 --> 00:55:08,320
That's true.
We did anyway, but in this case,

1038
00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:11,400
I was going around and watching
the staff doing what they did

1039
00:55:11,720 --> 00:55:14,320
and they at first thought I was
like policing them so I could

1040
00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:16,240
fire them and I said absolutely
not.

1041
00:55:16,480 --> 00:55:18,960
The reason I'm doing it is
because I need to educate you.

1042
00:55:18,960 --> 00:55:21,920
If you have a gap, I'm not here
to fire you unless you won't

1043
00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:24,000
learn and you refuse to learn
and things like that.

1044
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:27,360
Let me just see what you do so I
can know how to educate.

1045
00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:30,600
That's all that mattered because
I didn't want errors to happen

1046
00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:34,320
because they were under under
trained and there were a lot of

1047
00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:36,200
things I had to train that
surprised me.

1048
00:55:36,360 --> 00:55:39,520
I had to train them.
Like when does one do CPR

1049
00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:44,560
anyway?
But that's what it's all about

1050
00:55:44,560 --> 00:55:47,640
is these errors and these things
that we learned from Doctor

1051
00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:51,600
Sanchez and Doctor, I can't
remember the other name, like

1052
00:55:51,720 --> 00:55:54,560
hopefully.
Yeah, whatever.

1053
00:55:54,720 --> 00:55:57,880
But hopefully these things will
teach us to do things

1054
00:55:57,880 --> 00:56:02,280
differently that will learn for
the mistakes and build a better

1055
00:56:02,280 --> 00:56:05,480
protocol, a better process,
better training and make a

1056
00:56:05,480 --> 00:56:09,240
difference in a positive way.
And when these things are pushed

1057
00:56:09,240 --> 00:56:13,720
under the carpet and they don't
get improvements, that's when I

1058
00:56:13,720 --> 00:56:15,800
think the errors become even
more egregious.

1059
00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:16,800
Yeah.
And I just.

1060
00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:20,800
Wanted to backtrack just a
smidge and say like when we talk

1061
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:25,120
about medication errors and
documenting them, it can be as

1062
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:30,480
quote UN quote minor as I gave
somebody a Tylenol that expired

1063
00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:32,320
yesterday, right?
Like it's.

1064
00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:34,360
That.
It's that tightly controlled

1065
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:39,160
because our bodies can do so
much with medication, positively

1066
00:56:39,160 --> 00:56:42,040
and negatively true.
And you know, is this one day

1067
00:56:42,040 --> 00:56:44,080
expired Tylenol going to do
anything negative?

1068
00:56:44,080 --> 00:56:45,800
Probably not, but it doesn't
matter.

1069
00:56:45,880 --> 00:56:48,200
But you know, again, it's kind
of going back to what I was

1070
00:56:48,200 --> 00:56:50,680
saying and what you were saying.
It's we do come down to a letter

1071
00:56:50,680 --> 00:56:52,240
of the law sort of situation,
right?

1072
00:56:52,240 --> 00:56:55,800
Like it's just because it it
it's like this, it's a cause and

1073
00:56:55,800 --> 00:56:58,680
effect, right?
Because I don't give a one day

1074
00:56:58,680 --> 00:57:03,680
old expired a one day expired
Tylenol to a person is also why

1075
00:57:03,680 --> 00:57:06,160
somebody doesn't have the wrong
like amputated.

1076
00:57:06,520 --> 00:57:08,240
It's all part of it.
Yeah, it's yeah.

1077
00:57:08,240 --> 00:57:11,480
It's, it's all connected.
It's like it's, I kind of put a

1078
00:57:11,800 --> 00:57:13,440
phrase to it.
I can't think of 1, but it's

1079
00:57:13,440 --> 00:57:16,560
all, it's all interwoven, right?
Like I know that that's an

1080
00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:20,040
extreme example because Tylenol
and leg amputation are very far

1081
00:57:20,040 --> 00:57:23,840
apart if you, if you think of it
linear, right?

1082
00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:30,320
But when it's, I'll call it
medicine, I guess it's not

1083
00:57:30,320 --> 00:57:32,960
linear.
It's it's very much a woven

1084
00:57:33,160 --> 00:57:34,800
quilt.
There you go.

1085
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:39,520
Well, and also I feel like for a
person who has a low or well

1086
00:57:39,520 --> 00:57:41,400
maybe a high tolerance for
error.

1087
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:43,920
So I'm not going to say anything
about the Tylenol and I won't

1088
00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:45,920
say anything about this thing
and I won't say anything about

1089
00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:47,600
that thing.
Pretty soon.

1090
00:57:47,840 --> 00:57:50,160
Where does that tolerance Pretty
soon you're not saying.

1091
00:57:50,160 --> 00:57:52,080
Anything about digoxin, Right?
Right.

1092
00:57:52,080 --> 00:57:53,960
Exactly.
And, and it matters.

1093
00:57:53,960 --> 00:57:59,000
And also I can always know that
I can stand by what I've done.

1094
00:57:59,080 --> 00:58:01,520
And the people around me know I
can stand by what I've done

1095
00:58:01,520 --> 00:58:04,760
because I have been honest.
I have been been living the

1096
00:58:04,760 --> 00:58:08,120
letter and if there's ever.
A question they're going to go

1097
00:58:08,120 --> 00:58:12,800
back and say look at her history
of reporting and being, being

1098
00:58:12,800 --> 00:58:14,560
self accountable etcetera,
etcetera, right.

1099
00:58:14,560 --> 00:58:16,960
They're not going to go well,
Andrea.

1100
00:58:19,120 --> 00:58:21,360
Right.
Because there's going to be, it

1101
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:25,680
is, you know, it's very unlikely
that this was a cover up, so to

1102
00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:26,800
speak.
Sure.

1103
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:29,120
And Andrea's case, right?
Yeah, and Andrea?

1104
00:58:29,120 --> 00:58:33,240
'S case, of course Crystal.
Now, on the other hand, yeah,

1105
00:58:33,480 --> 00:58:37,600
well, this was fascinating.
And, and again, please be sure

1106
00:58:37,680 --> 00:58:39,520
that you're advocating for
yourselves.

1107
00:58:39,840 --> 00:58:45,240
And if you have any question or
hesitancy, ask, ask what's

1108
00:58:45,240 --> 00:58:48,240
happening.
And it may seem like the staff

1109
00:58:48,240 --> 00:58:50,240
is getting annoyed, but you know
what?

1110
00:58:50,240 --> 00:58:54,160
If it's my leg, I'm going to be
sure that they know what they're

1111
00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:57,400
doing.
And that seems if a doctor says

1112
00:58:57,400 --> 00:58:58,680
something.
To you or a nurse says something

1113
00:58:58,680 --> 00:59:00,040
to you that you don't
understand.

1114
00:59:00,320 --> 00:59:04,560
What I have found helps me the
most is I would say to them, I

1115
00:59:04,560 --> 00:59:05,560
don't understand what you're
saying.

1116
00:59:05,560 --> 00:59:08,880
Could you please explain it to
me like I'm a fifth grader and

1117
00:59:08,960 --> 00:59:09,520
what?
That.

1118
00:59:09,520 --> 00:59:14,680
Does is it, it takes them out of
that clinical, you know, jibber

1119
00:59:14,680 --> 00:59:18,720
jabber mindset and back into a
human mindset where it's like,

1120
00:59:18,920 --> 00:59:23,520
Oh, you, you know, you want to
know what I'm doing and what I

1121
00:59:23,520 --> 00:59:25,920
just said to you means nothing.
And it, it just, it's a really

1122
00:59:25,920 --> 00:59:30,160
easy way to bring them to bring
them back to humanity and back

1123
00:59:30,160 --> 00:59:32,920
to layman's terms is the best
way to say anything.

1124
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:36,840
But I, I find they please say
that to me in layman's terms

1125
00:59:36,840 --> 00:59:39,400
versus please explain that to me
like I'm a fifth grader.

1126
00:59:39,720 --> 00:59:44,320
I get much better results with
the 5th grader option, just so

1127
00:59:44,320 --> 00:59:45,280
you know.
Yeah, and that makes.

1128
00:59:45,280 --> 00:59:49,080
Sense too because I know there
are a lot of times I turn into

1129
00:59:49,080 --> 00:59:53,120
clinical language speak as it
were, when I have even noticed

1130
00:59:53,120 --> 00:59:59,280
because I've been a nurse for 36
years and clinical speak is my

1131
00:59:59,600 --> 01:00:05,720
default probably where a person
who is non clinical doesn't

1132
01:00:05,960 --> 01:00:08,480
necessarily understand it.
And it's not to say that I'm

1133
01:00:08,480 --> 01:00:11,040
smarter, it's just that every.
Every.

1134
01:00:11,440 --> 01:00:14,400
Organization, I think, or every
discipline if you will, has

1135
01:00:14,400 --> 01:00:19,040
their own lingo.
And if I don't know the lingo of

1136
01:00:19,040 --> 01:00:22,440
a plumber, he could say all
kinds of things and I still

1137
01:00:22,440 --> 01:00:24,120
wouldn't know what it is.
It doesn't mean I'm dumb, it

1138
01:00:24,120 --> 01:00:28,280
just means I'm not a plumber.
And if a person is speaking to

1139
01:00:28,280 --> 01:00:30,840
someone who is medical, it
doesn't mean that they're dumb

1140
01:00:30,840 --> 01:00:33,920
if they don't understand they're
just not medical and that's OK.

1141
01:00:34,240 --> 01:00:37,600
And a person who is fortunate
enough to not have dealt with

1142
01:00:37,600 --> 01:00:41,960
medical people and does suddenly
have to many sometimes it's in a

1143
01:00:41,960 --> 01:00:45,440
high stress situation.
And so as I mentioned before,

1144
01:00:45,880 --> 01:00:49,600
you're a patient and a lot of
times they're scared, they're

1145
01:00:49,600 --> 01:00:51,680
uncomfortable.
There's a reason they're in the

1146
01:00:51,680 --> 01:00:53,880
hospital and it's not usually
good.

1147
01:00:54,120 --> 01:00:57,120
Even if they're having a baby,
it's still scary for having sex,

1148
01:00:57,120 --> 01:00:59,560
especially the first.
So there's a lot of factors that

1149
01:00:59,560 --> 01:01:02,160
can come in that can essentially
turn our brains off.

1150
01:01:02,160 --> 01:01:06,120
Even a nurse, I often I try not
to mention to people that I'm a

1151
01:01:06,120 --> 01:01:09,640
nurse because I think that they
expect more from me for one

1152
01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:11,880
thing.
And I can't be a regular whiny

1153
01:01:11,880 --> 01:01:15,600
person if I want to because I'm
like, oh, I'm fine, I'm a nurse.

1154
01:01:16,080 --> 01:01:19,440
But also I think they also
expect me to know more.

1155
01:01:19,440 --> 01:01:22,840
And in some situations I haven't
known more because it's not my

1156
01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:26,640
area of specialty.
And that's that's I usually.

1157
01:01:26,720 --> 01:01:28,840
Don't do that because I get
annoyed when they're explaining

1158
01:01:28,840 --> 01:01:30,640
things to me.
I'm like, I'm, I'm a nurse,

1159
01:01:30,960 --> 01:01:34,000
please, please stop.
But I did find with my last

1160
01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:36,920
hospitalization, which is
obviously my most recent frame

1161
01:01:36,920 --> 01:01:40,240
of reference, they still they
they were funny about it.

1162
01:01:40,240 --> 01:01:44,000
They would come in and be like,
I know you're a nurse, but this

1163
01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:46,720
is your this medicine and this
medicine and this medicine,

1164
01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:49,280
medicine, you know, because they
have to cover.

1165
01:01:49,280 --> 01:01:51,600
Their bases and they have to be
able to document that they

1166
01:01:51,600 --> 01:01:52,920
explained it and they would say
and.

1167
01:01:52,920 --> 01:01:54,720
This is for sleep and this is
for your blood pressure.

1168
01:01:54,960 --> 01:01:57,280
And it was just like, and that's
OK, right?

1169
01:01:57,280 --> 01:02:00,880
I just don't want them to be
like, and a vein is a thing that

1170
01:02:00,880 --> 01:02:03,800
carries, right?
Like what?

1171
01:02:04,080 --> 01:02:07,720
So before my hysterectomy my
doctor told me now you know you

1172
01:02:07,720 --> 01:02:09,760
can't get pregnant right after a
hysterectomy.

1173
01:02:09,760 --> 01:02:13,040
I'm like I'm a nurse.
And he said oh you'd be

1174
01:02:13,040 --> 01:02:14,520
surprised.
And is it true?

1175
01:02:14,600 --> 01:02:17,800
Again back to non area specialty
that I actually understood

1176
01:02:17,800 --> 01:02:19,960
without any question.
But it's true.

1177
01:02:19,960 --> 01:02:24,840
If I have been a work comp nurse
for forever, I may not have real

1178
01:02:24,840 --> 01:02:27,920
knowledge about cardiac issues
and so it matters.

1179
01:02:27,920 --> 01:02:30,600
But anyway, I think we've
belabored this issue enough.

1180
01:02:31,080 --> 01:02:35,640
But I really appreciate the
topic and I hope that none of

1181
01:02:35,640 --> 01:02:38,800
our listeners ever experienced
an amputation of a wrong part.

1182
01:02:38,800 --> 01:02:41,160
Thanks for the topic today.
Thank you.

1183
01:02:41,400 --> 01:02:43,920
Do you have an idea?
For an episode of this podcast,

1184
01:02:44,360 --> 01:02:47,240
just want to Say hi.
You can get in touch with us at

1185
01:02:47,480 --> 01:02:55,760
our M4 pod.
That's OURM the #4pod@gmail.com

1186
01:02:56,400 --> 01:03:00,320
We read every e-mail and
sometimes we even respond just

1187
01:03:00,320 --> 01:03:02,640
like real professionals because
we.

1188
01:03:02,640 --> 01:03:06,440
Are.
Old friends with new twists and

1189
01:03:06,440 --> 01:03:08,000
lots of body bags.